Report article RSS Feed No mod support for Battlefield 3

Seems the game is too complex for us modders, and so mod tools will be missing from the PC release of BF3.

Posted by INtense! on Jul 5th, 2011

Battlefield has had a proud history on ModDB with mods including Project Reality, Forgotten Hope 2, First Strike and others dominating our annual mod of the year awards. Despite this, news has just come out (and confirmed our fears) that Battlefield 3 will not include mod tools, and instead EA are looking at other ways to "appease" the modding community. DICE executive Patrick Soderlund speaking to German Gamestar magazine (via Battlefieldo) confirmed this in the video below:


When asked about modding, Patrick said:

Quote:It’s going to be very difficult for people to mod the game, because of the nature of the set up of levels, of the destruction and all those things… it’s quite tricky. So we think it’s going to be too big of a challenge for people to make a mod.

Earlier in an interview with Game Informer Patrick was uncertain how modding would look for BF2. Given this was over 4 months ago and no decision has been made since then, it sounds like even basic tools maybe some way off (assuming they are in the pipeline to be made at all):

Quote:We will not deliver mod tools in the way that we delivered them for Battlefield 2 ... Creating mod tools today - dumbing them down - takes a lot of energy and what we are discussing more every day is, 'Where do we put our focus?' ... Right now our focus is to create the best possible multiplayer, single-player, and co-op game -- the core game of Battlefield 3," he added. "We're still discussing how we handle modifications of any kind.

This news follows in the footsteps of CoD: MW2 who also shunned the mod community despite a lot of success and great ideas coming from CoD 4 modders. Hopefully they will realize their mistake and do a backflip, as CoD did with Black Ops bringing back mod support.

After all to back up their claim of BF2 been a PC first, consoles second game - it is critical that they put their weight behind the PC community and enable them to unleash their modding creativity on the game.

Post comment Comments  (0 - 50 of 404)
Skepsis!
Skepsis! Jul 5 2011, 10:39pm says:

As much as this is disappointing news, I can understand and accept it. Engines do seem to get more and more taxing as the years go by.

+3 votes     reply to comment
x3nu
x3nu Jul 6 2011, 1:41am replied:

I read somewhere that it took a week to compile a map for frostbite 2. I can understand where they are coming from.

+45 votes     reply to comment
INtense!
INtense! Jul 6 2011, 1:49am replied:

Absolutely, just getting a game to release is an amazing achievement and the complexity of todays games does make them hard to mod. So I can understand that in-house they probably have tools that are not designed to be used externally (optimized, pretty etc) and making them accessible to modders would be costly and challenging.

But with such a legacy blazed by past BF games (and their mods), it is a shame to see mods totally dismissed. Crytek for example is taking a while, but they are slowly bringing their tools to modders and indie developers. I don't think it is fair however to "bash EA / Dice" as I believe this decision is based much more than on them trying to monetize DLC and if they had unlimited time / resources mod tools would be made.

+32 votes     reply to comment
DaveW
DaveW Jul 6 2011, 6:56am replied:

I think the biggest problem is having to deal with documentation and the like. The tools are there and it wouldn't take much work to release them - but attempting to provide support for it would cost a lot of money, which is why most modern games not based on an engine like Unreal or Source etc. don't release modding tools. It's too much hassle for a minority of their community (i.e. PC sales of games are tiny compared to console sales), it's not like the good old days where most sales were on the PC.

+9 votes     reply to comment
Lazy6pyro
Lazy6pyro Jul 6 2011, 7:52pm replied:

Absolutely. Documenting how to use the software and packaging a turn-key solution for public use is an absolute nightmare. I was specifically hired by a headhunter to do just that for a company for a 1-2 month job...it ended going on 3 months. When you take software backend that wasn't designed to live on a single machine uncompiled (as most huuuuge turn-key solutions are), it because the insane task of finding and packaging all of the dependencies and all of the links, and eliminating all of the "**** it! We'll do it live!" patch-work, it's going to be a massive endeavor that DICE, understandably didn't want to partake in or sub-contract out.

Second, I see big mods for these new games waning when you have the potential upside and power of professional tools going free for indies in UDK, Unity and hopefully CryEngine 3. These tools, were designed from the group up with a broader audience (and not a specific turn-key solution), and hence allow more viability from the get-go. These weren't an option back in Source or BF2 days, and that's where I see the strongest skill-set modders eventually drifting over to.

+5 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 6 2011, 8:17pm buried:

(buried)

I really want to call some of you modder's stupid elitism....

Company X isn't going to baby me and release tools? NO THERE ARE SMART PEOPLE THAT WILL FIGURE IT OUT!!!! THEY MAKE PROFESSIONAL WORK LOOK LIKE ****

Mod X takes 25 YEARS to complete? NO DON'T INSULT THEM OR EXPECT THEM TO KEEP THEIR PROMISES...THEY'RE AMATUERS AND NOT GETTING PAID FOR IT.

You're all ******* hypocrites. You all want to act like you sit at the big boy's table, and can handle something, but then you can't even ******* complete Black Mesa or Little Jimmy's Fun Mod.

-116 votes     reply to comment
Icedecknight
Icedecknight Jul 6 2011, 8:45pm replied:

@ Moppop You can call Modders stupid all you want and I hope it makes you feel better, but everyone here was expecting great things to happen with the tools they were going to give us. Just because some of your mods you've been waiting for haven't been release doesn't mean you get to rage about it and complain that its our fault and every person that mods a game are the same. And like I've said in previous comments of mine, we have extremely talented people that log on to this site and just because they aren't part of a company doesn't mean they can't create something of equal or even better value.

+25 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 6 2011, 8:55pm buried:

(buried)

You make a perfect example. You've spent more than three YEARS on your own mod that's not even of your own IP. How far along is that? Blizzard can pull the rug out from under you in a second, and there goes all of your work. Bye Bye.

There's a reason why people of professional caliber LEAVE modding and go pro. there's also a reason why that number is pissifully small compared to the number of modders on here. The good ones are weeded out and the ruffians and wannabes stay thinking their sippy-cup is a wine glass. Congrats wannabe.

-90 votes     reply to comment
Icedecknight
Icedecknight Jul 6 2011, 9:23pm replied:

@Moppop I have personally just reached the two year mark of working with the development team, and its nice to know that you have to check up on people to try to counter their statement. And if you knew anything about the mod and the members you would know that we will instantly drop all of our work if blizzard says so, but after that we will immediately start a new project, and it would be our own. So to your statement Yes I am a wannabe Graphic designer but i'm sure there are a lot of others too. Modding is either about two things, One: To make a fun mod for your friends or yourself or even everyone to enjoy, or Two: To practice or improve your skills and make it all about the experience. They can be both too. So now please correct me for any wrong doing I have done.

+21 votes     reply to comment
sgtmyers88
sgtmyers88 Jul 6 2011, 11:43pm replied:

Whatever happened to just doing something that you love without dealing with all the politics surrounding professional game developers and with trolls stating BS about who is a wannabe game developer or not? Wasnt there a saying around here stating: "He who LOVES the game MODS the game? Wasnt that the purpose of why ModDB is here!? Give us a break!

+14 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 7 2011, 1:15am buried:

(buried)

Modding started for fun when people DIDN'T get tools handed to them on a silver platter. No, it took work and ******* skill just to get something ingame, NOT opening up DERPeditor v1.0 clicking a few buttons and BAM mod!!!!!!

The fact is that modders have become so infantile that they have to rely on the crutch of the developer holding their hand, yet they're hailed as being better than the developers themselves above everyone else that they tease their ******** to. But yet, they get ****** off when devs call their bluff and don't give them modding tools because they're big boys that can do it on their own....yea right.

The fact that I'm getting downvoted is proof that it's the truth, because it hurts.

-76 votes     reply to comment
arieas
arieas Jul 7 2011, 1:38am replied:

Do you mod yourself? Just wondering, not criticising.

Just that modders do need to rely on the developers today for some things. And its good that the developers are acknowledging that and helping the mod community. Where they can, and if they provide some great easy to use tools, then its all good.
Only problem is when people whine the game does not support modding.

+7 votes     reply to comment
wazanator
wazanator Jul 7 2011, 2:28am replied:

@moppop: I'm sorry but there are plenty of mods out there that have professional quality to them. Look at project reality, Neotokyo, Off Limits, and No more room in hell All great mods that are on par with the quality of studio produced games.

Now look at games like Dino D-day that are awful yet had all the same chances and tools as modders did but had money to back them up. Would you say Dino d-day is better then Hidden Source, Fistful of frags or even 1187? After all they all run on the same engine but one is made by why you consider "professionals".

Plus how are you to know whats best for the modding community when you yourself don't even mod? That's like telling someone they're not allowed to use art supplies because they are simply a hobby artist and not a professional artist.

+15 votes     reply to comment
Antiscamp
Antiscamp Jul 7 2011, 4:51am replied:

I've been modding games since the 90's and I've always done it just for fun. Still today. I am not doing it for fame or pay, but for fun, like most modders. Seeing my own creation come alive within the games I love and then share the experience with other gamers is FUN. And fun is actually pay enough for me. I do not need to be called professional, I know I'm an amateur, but I am still affecting the lifespan of my favourite games in a positive way, and contributing to their existence and popularity.

I am very happy about the great tools we get these days making life so much easier, but it was just as much fun yesterday as it is today. The games I mod are created by people who understand the value of including modding tools and abilities in their games, since mods contribute such a lot to them and make them live on. People will be modding games that were released in the early 00's for years to come, depending on the tools released, lengthening the lifespan of the game and actually increasing sales. We modders serve a valuable purpose, whether we are aware of it or not.

+14 votes     reply to comment
InsanityPays
InsanityPays Jul 7 2011, 5:44am replied:

@moppop are you saying modders should all just stop and play the same thing over and over again even after it lacks entertainment? that my friend IS insanity ;)-the kind you dont make money off of-

+11 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 7 2011, 10:50am buried:

(buried)

No, insanity. I'm saying you can already mod THOUSANDS OF GAMES, so why is BF3 so ******* important? Why not help people finish their own lazy mods and not get excited for the next super-cool engine. Oh, wait....you're all ******* ambulance chasers that have less of an attention span than an ant.

-54 votes     reply to comment
buglord
buglord Jul 7 2011, 3:39pm replied:

well having less attention than an ant is not really that bad.. ants, whole community/family of millions working to make ONE thing, if humans were able to to have that good attention to who does what, where and so on, many problems could be solved...

+11 votes     reply to comment
arieas
arieas Jul 7 2011, 8:13pm replied:

You need to calm down... maybe people would then maybe would acknowledge your opinion more.

While it is true such tools are not needed to mod, without releases of games that include greater capabilities to mod more than a few files, the whole modding scene would be so much smaller these days. Its s primary interest to some
Its just kind of a thing that many people expect now anyway, some people can't handle when tools are not released or don't include certain things, but that's just the way they are. There are some real serious modders who are producing some great things. I don't really care if a few hundred mods don't finish if it means 20 outstanding mods exist to further enhance a game beyond developers intention.

+9 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 7 2011, 9:02pm buried:

(buried)

I am calm, but I appreciate you looking out for my health. Don't you have some ambulance to chase now?

You posted didn't you...unless you don't consider yourself a person...subhuman maybe?

-48 votes     reply to comment
arieas
arieas Jul 8 2011, 12:42am replied:

It seems you are incapable of having a proper discussion. I was one of the people who was willing to fully read what you were posting and take in what you wrote.
Oh well, your problem.

+13 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 8 2011, 8:55am buried:

(buried)

Incapable? You didn't even produce an agrument. You just said that you're cool with people being lazy and starting things they can't finish but as long as people move to the next big thing it's all ok.

The people that want to play all the really cool mods but have no desire to learn the trade (the leaches), are totally willing to neglect any old game and follow the new super-cool engine mods for the new super-cool games. They'll get bored once they realize that serious modding is a multi-year investment and move on to the next super-cool engine and hoping some super-cool mod team (but of course, not their lazy ***) will make a super-cool professional grade mod in a month.

Did BF3 suddenly destroy all of the mods in existence? Did it?

-37 votes     reply to comment
Nazara
Nazara Jul 11 2011, 12:56pm replied:

moppop is 12 year old kid who got angry because he got ignored by some modder?
To all mature people here,ignore this troll.

+5 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 11 2011, 5:14pm buried:

(buried)

So you're a psychologist, too? Well, let's hope your not a stalker that wants me to drop the soap like BabylonDemolitionists.

I take it that since you're brilliant *** had to comment, you aren't mature. Way to insult yourself there, Skypher.

-24 votes     reply to comment
CarnageX
CarnageX Jul 9 2011, 6:45pm buried:

(buried)

You guys just got raped by moppop. He actually makes really good sense

-19 votes     reply to comment
xalener
xalener Jul 13 2011, 3:05pm replied:

Just the existence of Overdose proves you wrong there.

+6 votes     reply to comment
WaLTaRRoN
WaLTaRRoN Jul 16 2011, 8:52pm replied:

It is not still like that, It's not click and BAM you need to think what to do first, which way to do that. Obviously you have no idea what is modding and what is gaming, It'll never be click&BAM style. You'll need textures, audio files, lot more different things than the game itself already has, to be able to call it as mod.

+2 votes     reply to comment
krstphr257
krstphr257 Jul 19 2011, 1:25am replied:

Did you know Kaos studios (creators of Homefront and Frontlines:fuels of war) started out with a mod? It was one of the best mods out there called "desert combat" for battlefield 1942, and you just disrespected them. So, what about the Project reality developers? They are already making their own standalone game. And the forgotten hope devs may become a bigtime game developer too. You should think before you make crazy comments like that.

+5 votes     reply to comment
Conchobhar
Conchobhar Jul 21 2011, 10:38am replied:

.

+1 vote     reply to comment
madcat1030
madcat1030 Jul 10 2011, 7:27pm replied:

You don't leave modding. You graduate or move on. If you want. Perhaps your passion is to provide a free experience for players. Maybe you're just playing around with some tools in your free time. There is no contract, no need to actually finish. Some people might be sad, but most of us have lives, jobs, and families.
But, perhaps your desire is to get noticed and hired onto one of your favorite companies. Modding is a step, a lifestyle, and a culture. Don't you dare dismiss it as anything less. From the most amateur of neophytes to the best of the elites, we all work and build together, creating worlds and stories, sometimes even better than those of paid companies.

+1 vote     reply to comment
madcat1030
madcat1030 Jul 10 2011, 7:33pm replied:

And in regards to the article, no it's not the end of the world that they aren't enabling modding on BF3. It's a choice. And some engines are just too complex and require too much internal knowledge to manipulate properly.

Apologies for the double post, I came back to add this, but it was too late.

And Moppop, where did anybody imply that BF3 not allowing mods was killing mods. The only fuel for your argument is in your posts, and in those of a few (severely downvoted) members.

+3 votes     reply to comment
NuclearBanane
NuclearBanane Jul 29 2011, 12:49am replied:

I.E of your ending statement
Look at : Project Reality, Forgotten Hope 2, Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, CoD at its start ( they came from MoH ).

The list is crazy so yup.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Atlasfield
Atlasfield Jul 7 2011, 2:27am replied:

Yeah I know exist many incomplete mods, however the people sometimes do it for practice for then mod another game, however, the people who love any game, they will continuing working on it and of course playing it.

Also, the "professional"/official creators from videogames only use the graphic engine for sometimes "stealth" their low works in textures and sounds, and of course the modders fix those details.

We are fans of videogames and lovers of the creation, so is more stupid read a troll who believes is a modder and insult any way than play an incomplete mod or a game of MS-DOS (and this last point is not stupid).

Saludos Newbie. ;)

+9 votes     reply to comment
stagler
stagler Jul 7 2011, 3:51am replied: +8 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 7 2011, 10:52am buried:

(buried)

So, what you're your saying is that you don't need mods for BF3 when you have those 5 out how many ******* thousands of mods to play? Good for you, ******* *****.

-40 votes     reply to comment
ytres
ytres Jul 7 2011, 10:14pm replied:

Ok, to add more:
Moddb.com
Desertconflictmod.com
Aixtended.com
Battlefieldsingleplayer.com
Battlefieldsingleplayer.com
and tons of community mini-mods, etc. made. Not to mention BF1942 modifications:
Moddb.com
Moddb.com
Moddb.com
Moddb.com
Moddb.com
etc. etc.

+7 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 7 2011, 10:26pm buried:

(buried)

So...why aren't you playing them if you have so many mods to satisfy your thirst? BF3 not allowing mods isn't going to make those disappear now is it? Is that an ambulance I see going by....better start running.

-34 votes     reply to comment
lambda462
lambda462 Jul 18 2011, 12:18pm replied:

We're showing you that mods can look like professional work.

+5 votes     reply to comment
the_simian
the_simian Jul 7 2011, 10:27pm replied:

I worked on a completed a mod. just saying.

+7 votes     reply to comment
BabylonDemolitionist
BabylonDemolitionist Jul 8 2011, 5:34am replied:

At least the modders have an understanding of how the game was made in the first place. You are the mindless drone that simply laps up everything the "big boys" spew out and the fact you are so passionate about this alone shows you have little else to be passionate about.

+6 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 8 2011, 8:33am buried:

(buried)

Ah, the mindless drone defense. You should totally be on Casey Anthony's legal team with that home-run. Let me guess, you also love people like Alex Jones that spew how the world banks are going to take over the world (as long as you buy my book/DVD/go to my ad-filled website).

They called the engine tricky and complex, which anyone that doesn't have an "I suck modders *****" T-shirt should understand that they can be talking about the implementation and reproducability on a single machine. Did you, by chance read how retarded they had the engine set up for Bad Company 2? No? Well, you're a dumber and more emo **** than I thought. What reason should you not believe them on this? They exposed exactly why and how they screwed up...they admitted failure in the way they set up the engine; NO ONE trying to save face and be a greedy little ****-monger like you accuse them of being would atmit to royally ******* up their back-end.

Modding has nothing to do with DLC...it's only a convient excuse for Alex Jones loving conspiracy theorists. I guess I also need to simplfy this for you. A) DLC is an add-on to the main game, and unlike a patch doesn't force people and modders to upgrade or change their code, it has no bearing on how mods work B) DLC will always come before mods as DLC doesn't take YEARS to complete. C) Said company has to PAY for people to make the DLC...it doesn't magically fall out of the sky. But go on, Little Jimmy, and think that every body is out to get you, you stupid ****.

I get that you're from the UK and you're whole country is already down the toilet along with your yellow teeth. But somewhere, people actually know how to live.

-35 votes     reply to comment
[TZP]LoNer1
[TZP]LoNer1 Jul 8 2011, 10:26am replied:

You are really sad bro, you are arguing, well just cursing over the internet to people. Way to go, now you are a true hero, do you feel like one now? Behind your screen and chair? I dont think you are... And yeah, i as a modder too yeah, ask you to please shut up. Everyone here knows you'll be banned after all this...so why not calm down, you are an old man, let your heart rest, and go spread some hate on another site or something, because if you hate modding so much, who join a site called MODDB? doesnt make any sense to me...

And i see you are on a thumbing down parade here, so i must admit, most of the "modders" here dont really agree with you ;D

+12 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 8 2011, 11:56am buried:

(buried)

They don't have to agree with me. That's the beautiy of the freedom of the Internet....and the Freedom of Speech that all of you hypocrites chided intense and ModDB because of removing the School Schooter mod.

You have failed to prove to me how
A) DLC affects modding
B) How the exclusing of mods in BF3 affects anything including the mods for the THOUSANDS of other games that you can mod to your hearts content
C) DICE called modders stupid.

These three things don't exist...and they are just made up and make believe as Alex Jones's conspiracy theories.

-31 votes     reply to comment
BabylonDemolitionist
BabylonDemolitionist Jul 10 2011, 6:16am replied:

I despise ignorance, moron. One of the reasons I despise you.

+4 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 10 2011, 9:10pm buried:

(buried)

Cool. I have a psychologist stalker that despises me. Isn't that fun?

-26 votes     reply to comment
Predator_828
Predator_828 Jul 11 2011, 1:59pm replied:

- 62 Votes on your first post. Moppop YOU FAILIURE!

+6 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 11 2011, 4:15pm buried:

(buried)

Wrong!

-28 votes     reply to comment
krstphr257
krstphr257 Jul 18 2011, 7:32pm replied:

you realize that the internet hates you now right?

+6 votes     reply to comment
Derb
Derb Jul 31 2011, 10:40pm replied:

Im just gonna go out and say it. Moppop, your a prick.

+3 votes     reply to comment
Kastrenzo
Kastrenzo Jul 8 2011, 12:41pm replied:

Being too sophisticated in hardware terms, and being too intellectually complicated are two very different things.

There wouldnt be as many but there are certainly still a lot of people who would be able to utilize the engine for modding.

Don't kid yourself, DICE/EA is insulting the community, they're basically telling everyone that they're the only people smart enough to mod with their engine.

+10 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Jul 8 2011, 1:52pm buried:

(buried)

What they say in reality and how people interpret it are two very different things.

-24 votes     reply to comment
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