Question on the new electrical protectorate Thread - Red Alert 3 Paradox mod for C&C: Red Alert 3

I've seen that there is a new protectorate list and mechanic.
I've a few question on them:

Saying first that now it is a lot more playable and i like it a lot more,particularly the rusty engine.

How protectorate is supposed to have funds?
it is explained not very deeply the protectorate units will rely on recycle and destruction of enemy assets to have funds, but at the beginning what are they supposed to do? 10 thousend bucks to have a sizable army to destroy some enemy? With the information given on them i think the game with protectorate will be either very short epic win or unwinnable against a good turtler.
Can you explain better how the economy works, since i think i don't really understand the mechanic?

thanks

Locust collect stuff off the battlefield and turn it into resources. Stuff means cars, small objects, rubble, dead stuff, destroyed vehicles from both sides, and so forth. They may also be capable of getting a small number of funds out of ore nodes, depending on the needs of balance.

If your enemy just turtles up to avoid fighting you, you summon the icon.

Edited by: open_sketchbook

It sounds then that winning or losing the first fight against this Protectorate is a big deal- does dead stuff eventually fade, or will players have to guard scraps?

I think it would.

The resource mechanic reminds me about how the Necrons on 40k have the Thomb Spider that can collect fallen soldiers to turn them into new units, and the Thomb Kings (?) of Warhammer Classic have a similar unit. I like the idea. However, about the visual representation of the rust, I always had the imagination that the Syndicate have a black fog in their sprawl-esque bases and some kind of large dish or something else above the base to block out the sun (like the one episode in The Simpsons or Midgar in FFVII) -> Sprawls are at night 24/7.

In order to keep pressure on the Protectorate, you have to:

1) Win the first fight.
2) Stop the Technics from picking up the scraps.
3) Harass the Disassemblers to prevent Rust expansion across the map.
4) Use air forces to prevent the negative effects of Rust.

Because of the weird resource mechanic, you have to pretty much keep the Protectorate bottled up in their starting location, not letting your units die, and preventing Rust from spreading.

That my friend, is why aggressors were invented. You can build up a huge pile of them and hide them under the rust and if your opponent harasses your stuff, you stomp them fractal modules.

I think killing the modules should be the counter to said Aggressor ambush.

Galgus wrote: I think killing the modules should be the counter to said Aggressor ambush.

Modules aren't like that - they're expendable. You buy one, use it's ability, it self-destructs and imbues all units in a range with the weapon, until they load a new one.

KamuiK wrote: The resource mechanic reminds me about how the Necrons on 40k have the Thomb Spider that can collect fallen soldiers to turn them into new units, and the Thomb Kings (?) of Warhammer Classic have a similar unit. I like the idea. However, about the visual representation of the rust, I always had the imagination that the Syndicate have a black fog in their sprawl-esque bases and some kind of large dish or something else above the base to block out the sun (like the one episode in The Simpsons or Midgar in FFVII) -> Sprawls are at night 24/7.

necrons are so OP it's crazy and most likely my least favourite faction to fight against, on a related note, wouldn't it mean that China would destroy the Proct if they turret rush and seal them off?

Edited by: IFork

Dude, anyone who has played against Tau recently knows Necrons are no big deal. If you have suffient anti-MEQ weapons for regular play, you'll tear up.

China does have a good advantage against the Protectorate, but the Protectorate has some advantages back, like organic artillery support with their Reflex.

In the end, everything will be somewhat balanced against eachother.

I don't know about tabletop (don't play, but I have a few models just because I like making plastic models), but in Dawn of War, Tau and Necrons are hideously broken due to the latter's resource management and the early stealth units of the former.

I'm gonna say that we can't talk about balance until most of the factions are out, otherwise We'll just be making revisions and then undoing them, then redoing them again. Faction Calculus!

Problem is, I try not to play Tau. Dinosaurs + elite warrior summoning spam+ crazy ass vehicles = wtfbbqsauce.

Just seen the EP page, seeker reflex seems like the combination to go, but then again, would the EP run out of stuff to collect? (eg cars small objects and etc disappearing after being collected) if your opponent goes on the defensive and tries to cut you out of the majority of the map with aerial support

Edited by: IFork

Build Equalizers. Load with fractal modules. Profit.

For once we dont need the ????

????

What I said usually goes in the format: step 1; step 2; step 3; a blank or a few question marks; profit.

I liked the old protectorate better, I liked the idea of "this is your one base, it is the only thing that is not expendable, protect it with everything". Presumably, protectorate matches would a lot of aggression very early. I think the ability to expand and slowly weaken your enemy fits a more attrition-like style, while not having the correct type of units to back it up.

About balance, 8 factions will probably be a pain to balance, because you will have 28(?) combinations to test and weigh evenly.

Edited by: g.a

I liked it better, too. Now it seems like I'll be spending more time herding Aggressors to make sure the Weapon's Module actually gives them weapons than actually fighting. But if everyone else loves it, I can just choose not to play them.

How were modules changed again?

I kind of like the Module system in that it encourages hoards instead of rally point enemy base spam-clicking.

I would rather have weapon modules be a switch, affecting all units, it will encourage hordes rather than mixed units, also, since the protectorate has little micromanagement, a little more thinking more to control would be fine.

Most of all, I do not like the rust system, you'd think that it would encourage attrition instead of aggression.

Edited by: g.a

g.a it would force the enemy to put of attacking there base becasue of the buffs granted by the rust.

Phoenix^^ wrote: g.a it would force the enemy to put of attacking there base becasue of the buffs granted by the rust.

Exactly, by forcing the enemy not to attack your base, you could just scavenge anything in the rust, and sit back with artillery, it would make turtling easy, though it would have to be done with units rather than defenses, it would turn a fast aggression base faction into a slow sitting-around-in-your-base type faction, which isn't necessarily bad, but it is already covered by the china, syndicate, and the allies (to an extent), while there aren't any fast-based always attacking factions, which was supposed to be filled by the protectorate.

Galgus wrote: How were modules changed again?

I kind of like the Module system in that it encourages hoards instead of rally point enemy base spam-clicking.

Spam clicking won't work anyway, one turret is enough to kill unmicro'd aggressors.

Mostly, I liked how winning battles is the only way for the protectorate to make money, meaning that unmicro'd units with the old protectorate would die, and then, since it is in enemy territory, it is easy to protect, making the protectorate lose money. But now, the protectorate does not have to take risks, as they can just spread rust, and gain money because you can build expansions on the rust. This means the enemy is discouraged from attacking, and the protectorate reaps the benefits, making them less exiciting and more predictable. Also, an exploitation such as this will probably led to cheese tactics, such as turtling and then summoning the icon, while being unchallenged.

The enemy is supposed to be challenged by the protectorate aggression, they should not have to challenge the protectorate by couter-aggression, unless they are also the protectorate.

Ultimately, I think this change makes the protectorate too much like china, with only their resource mechaninc being unique.

Edited by: g.a

The Protectorate still can't extract ore from ore nodes. Their economy is still dependent on winning battles and maintaining that map control. Also, I think the low tier units are automatically equipped with a basic weapon, and the high-tier units need modules first. Also, Rust is only spread by the Singularity Core and the otherwise useless Disassembler (probably where the technics will return the scrap funds to).