Economy balancing. Thread - MISERY mod for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat

I've been frustratred with the rather weird prices of buying / selling in MISERY, so I've decided to attempt and balance it. (I know I'm definitely not the first person to do this, though.)

I mean, I understand traders are going to try and get a bit more money, but what I've learned from fellow stalkers is that unfair traders get hanged by their guts on trees and cranes.

The changes I have in mind are the following -

- Big boost to artifact prices. They aren't some cheap plastic trinkets, so a big boost is a must. It's quite stupid to not be able to buy even a can of beef and a cold beer with a hard-to-acquire piece of the Zone itself.

- A lot of changes in trading with ordinary stalkers to make it worthwile. ( An improvised stimpack costs about 4000RU to buy, while selling a gun in pristine condition only nets you about 500RU. )

I would love to hear from other people what else do they find to be in need of balancing.

Edited by: Yashka_Sheriff

I've always arrived in Pripyat with 500K + Rubles, so I don't think the economy is very harsh. However, I'm sure there will be some avid fans to making selling prices better. The only real changes I would personally prefer would be being able to buy anything in unlimited quantities if you have the cash. I wouldn't mind paying higher prices for premium weapons/armor so they could be available earlier. It is slightly annoying to me to only be able to buy 30 rounds at a time from a trader and have to go through a save/reload cycle to be able to buy 30 more, repeat, repeat. Even to be able to buy a 30% condition high end weapon or armor at a modest price and fix it up with repair kits/materials you buy or find would be great. I think pristine weapons should be quite pricey, with say the 30% condition item costing 40% of the 100% condition item. I don't know what the ratio is right now, but it's perfectly reasonable for a trader to charge 2-3 times what he pays for an item. Pays you 35 rubles sells for 100. It will be a fair amount of work I applaud your efforts in advance I would compare the rookie mode trader pricing vs. the normal Misery pricing first and see how much easier you think would still leave some challenge.

jasper34 wrote: I've always arrived in Pripyat with 500K + Rubles, so I don't think the economy is very harsh. However, I'm sure there will be some avid fans to making selling prices better. The only real changes I would personally prefer would be being able to buy anything in unlimited quantities if you have the cash. I wouldn't mind paying higher prices for premium weapons/armor so they could be available earlier. It is slightly annoying to me to only be able to buy 30 rounds at a time from a trader and have to go through a save/reload cycle to be able to buy 30 more, repeat, repeat. Even to be able to buy a 30% condition high end weapon or armor at a modest price and fix it up with repair kits/materials you buy or find would be great. I think pristine weapons should be quite pricey, with say the 30% condition item costing 40% of the 100% condition item. I don't know what the ratio is right now, but it's perfectly reasonable for a trader to charge 2-3 times what he pays for an item. Pays you 35 rubles sells for 100. It will be a fair amount of work I applaud your efforts in advance I would compare the rookie mode trader pricing vs. the normal Misery pricing first and see how much easier you think would still leave some challenge.

Yes, you're definitely right I should compare it to the rookie mod prices, thanks!

I've actually had no problems getting some money, by the time I moved to Yanov and did some quests there I already had fully upgraded gear (SEVA, SVU). My main goals are just to make a few items more accessible - rations, repair kits , match up prices to description of some items (a chimera hide, controller brain tissue), make some items (medical supplies, drugs) a bit more expensive and make artifact hunting once again a good source of money, by boosting up prices of the more common artifacts. (The ones like Gravi can get you about ~20k RU from Beard so that's fine.) Everything else seems OK to me, though I may boost up a notch the prices of pristine modern weapons, since the prices of the worn ones look fine atm.

I will certainly increase the ammount of ammo in the traders, thank you for pointing it out. Maybe from 30 to 120?

120 sounds much better. I know they make it more scarce early on to make use of higher power weapons less frequent early on when most NPC's are lighter equipped. I would prefer price be the inhibiter from spraying AP ammo all over, not scarce supply at traders. Since you can save/reload and get it anyway it's just immersion breaking.

I agree on all points, Yashka. If you do it let us know how it went. Just remember there are similar tweaks out there (like Les Miserable in the Mod Optimization section). I would take a look on them first.

Another aspect I think should be adjusted are the technician discounts. Both Cardan and Nitro are supposed to cut on their prices after some triggers (Cardan is dependent on Booz and his sidequest, Nitro is dependent on helping him with parts and relation with Duty). Sadly though, these discounts are so small they are almost irrelevant.

Edited by: lessavini

lessavini wrote: I agree on all points, Yashka. If you do it let us know how it went.

Just remember there are similar tweaks out there (like Les Miserable in the Mod Optimization section). I would take a look on them first.

Yeah, I've snooped around here and there. Didn't know Les Miserable had tweaks to economy though, must've missed it.

I also saw a rather interesting fix to artifact price, with the most expensive being the heat-based ones, and the least expensive being the electricity-based ones (based on difficulty of obtaining, I assume), which was a very smart idea.

jasper34 wrote: 120 sounds much better. I know they make it more scarce early on to make use of higher power weapons less frequent early on when most NPC's are lighter equipped. I would prefer price be the inhibiter from spraying AP ammo all over, not scarce supply at traders. Since you can save/reload and get it anyway it's just immersion breaking.

I have done some tweaking on trader items. 200 to 300 rounds is maximum for traders to handle. Stalker game has bad habit of loading trader items at every time the window open and every time a transaction is done. Too many rounds will increase the loading speed. At 1200 rounds per ammo type, each loading cycle takes about 15 secs. Way too much for me.

That's some good info DesertEagle. I'm sure 120-180 rounds at a time would satisfy almost anyone and be better for immersion. Ammo is not something in short supply in the world so while it's heavy and costly to transport it should be available to those with the funds.

Are you sure this is the number of ammo and not the number of types of items that makes the traders inventories loading time longer ?

Thinking about the ammo issue, I think the ideal (aka more realistic/plausible) scenario should make it even more scarce than it already is. Its the center of the Zone and thus ammo supply routes should be hard to establish - specially with no vehicles/transports around - and any trip is guide-dependent and very risky. If it was on the outsirts/cordon its another story though.

But I understand its an engine limitation right (it ressuplies on reloads) ? If thats the case, then increasing the cost of ammo is a nice idea.

I agree, Traders inventories look like supermarkets. Harsh supplying is realistic for the zone. I'd also like to decrease the number of items on NPC corpses, do u know what's the file to work on to able that please ?

lopezien wrote: Are you sure this is the number of ammo and not the number of types of items that makes the traders inventories loading time longer ?

Yes I am sure. I have personally added almost every single weapon and armor there is in the game. The new type of items added doesn't decrease the loading time. When numbers of ammo going up the loading time drops at noticeable rate. 300 is comfortable for me, anything over will have major increase in loading cycle, making trading pain in the butt.

lopezien wrote: I agree, Traders inventories look like supermarkets.

This.

The high variety of items is pretty cool and adds to the immersion, but seeing each and every item always available on traders is unrealistic and and just gives the "supermartket" feeling.

I think traders inventories should vary much more, and be much slimmer, than the present state. Perhaps a solution is make it so each "family" of item is always represented, but only by 1 member at a time. Ie: "Oh you were looking for Epinephrine ? Sorry, we are out of it. But we do have this sweet energy drink available" or "Wanna some medkit ? We only have military-stim available today". Having 2 members available at the same time should be extremely rare.

Edited by: lessavini

Agreed again, that would make trading much more an exciting moment, hoping to find what we want instead of being sure to get it.

I myself don't trade, just living (farming?) on loot and selling only to NPCs (challenge purpose). But a much smaller trader inventory coupled with smaller loots would be a nice new playstyle to try.

I remember Sidorovitch selling only crap pistols/sawn off in SoC cordon. What an excitement when you get your first scope/rifle further in the game. Here, we have everything available from the beginning of the game. In one ingame day, u can have a very good scoped rifle with few hundreds of ammos, already a killer.

I've been looking for a new challenge in this game and have actually removed ammo from the traders. You can sometimes buy ammo off of stalkers, but it's expensive and what they sell is rarely what you want. I've also been thinking about removing guns from traders as well so you need to make do with what you find.

Also since I removed ammo it's much more important to have a number of guns ready to go if you happen to find ammo for a particular one so I have reduced the cost of repair kits and such. I think the balance I've struck is good so far in terms of roubles....but when you cannot buy ammo ammo starts to become almost like money. If you kill some bandits and they don't have any ammo it's like you lost, even if you make 5K roubles.

As to reloads, do the stalker's inventories remain the same on reloads? I've never checked.

Stalker inventory stay the same after reload. I have tested that.

However by removing ammo from trading makes the game to the point of unplayable for some new comers. There is no way they will be playing for long since ammo supply is next to nothing. From the story line Beard and Owl both got connection outside of the zone in terms of supply of arms, their clients are looking for Zone's special product known as artifacts. So to make sense of the story line traders should be well supplied, with high price tag. Artifacts should come with a stiff price tag too since it is deadly dangerous to gather and transport them.

The only trader with extremely limited supply should be the guy in Pripyat. He's on foot and no way he can carry one and half ton of stuff in his bag. So if his inventory is modified then Pripyat will become more challenging on the free play stage. Free for all with all factions and expensive to travel all the way back to get ammo supplies.

I agree, if someone wants to play without buying ammo from traders it doesn't require a mod, just a play style. It doesn't cost anything to return from Pripyat once you have been there, though. Just use the route you came by for free. Garry shouldn't really be able to carry 100's of Kilos on his back though It's only natural he becomes a black marketeer as the only guy who knows the route and he has to do something to earn a living staying in Pripyat where he likes it. I'd like him to adopt a small store front in one of the smaller abandoned buildings.

Thank you guys for the feedback, really appreciated.

Anyways, I've got rations and repair kits down to a good price. They've been tweaked in such a way that you can purchase a one-use kit from Beard for about ~12k, but a full repair kit from him costs more than Owl's. They go for 20-30k average.
Rations are around 12-13k, the more expensive ones being the russian one. I may try to get them to 10-11k, though, seems more reasonable that way.
I've also tweaked prices for gun oils, sewing kits, and other miscellaneous repair / maintenance items (cloth, steel wool). (more expensive)
I only have to adjust medical items prices, artifact prices and mutant part prices. Oh and, gotta boost amount of ammo in trader inventories to about 90, maybe 120.

By the way, standard PDAs sell for about 1000 to Owl, but reading their description says they can be sold for a good price to the right buyer, and considering Owl deals in information, should I boost their prices only to him? Everyone else will still take them for around 1000, maybe even lower (500, 350), but Owl will take them for 1750-2000RU.

And, sorry for being kinda slow with this but I've got some other stuff to do, and I'm honestly quite lazy.

DesertEagleV wrote: However by removing ammo from trading makes the game to the point of unplayable for some new comers. There is no way they will be playing for long since ammo supply is next to nothing. From the story line Beard and Owl both got connection outside of the zone in terms of supply of arms, their clients are looking for Zone's special product known as artifacts. So to make sense of the story line traders should be well supplied, with high price tag. Artifacts should come with a stiff price tag too since it is deadly dangerous to gather and transport them.

The only trader with extremely limited supply should be the guy in Pripyat. He's on foot and no way he can carry one and half ton of stuff in his bag. So if his inventory is modified then Pripyat will become more challenging on the free play stage. Free for all with all factions and expensive to travel all the way back to get ammo supplies.

This.

Edited by: Yashka_Sheriff

lopezien wrote: Agreed again, that would make trading much more an exciting moment, hoping to find what we want instead of being sure to get it.

I myself don't trade, just living (farming?) on loot and selling only to NPCs (challenge purpose). But a much smaller trader inventory coupled with smaller loots would be a nice new playstyle to try.

I remember Sidorovitch selling only crap pistols/sawn off in SoC cordon. What an excitement when you get your first scope/rifle further in the game. Here, we have everything available from the beginning of the game. In one ingame day, u can have a very good scoped rifle with few hundreds of ammos, already a killer.

Following the more coherent/realistic line of reasoning, perhaps Duty and Freedom could have ammo and guns in bigger quantity and quality, given their power and organization. Though they seem to be stranded on Yanov, what implies supply routes shouldn't be easy to establish even for them.

I think the more realistic traders setup would be more or less like this:

Beard: sells food, drinks and survival supplies like batteries, bedrolls, etc. More or less like it already is now ( only with slimmer stocks).

Owl: sells "black market" stuff like cigarettes, low-end drugs, etc. besides low-end guns and ammo.(again, with slimmer stocks).

Hawaiian: sell guns and ammo in bigger quantity and quality.

Garry: Make it like vanilla where he is not a trader at all (the most realistic version) or, if one wants to stretch believability for playability purposes, just make him sell light survival stuff and trinkets like batteries, candys, etc. Having him be the walking supermarket that he is in Misery 2 is not only nonsensic, but breaks the intended setup on the militaries on Pripyat, which are supposed to be stranded and in a desperate situation.

Well, after some tweaking, these are the following artifact prices I've got.

Jellyfish = ~5000RU
Crystal = ~5000RU
Fireball = ~10000RU
Sparkler = ~2000RU (maybe a bit more, around 2500 iirc)

I think I'll try to lower the Fireball down to ~9000RU, but otherwise these seem fine to me. I will continue to modify them, but it would be good to hear what you guys think artifact prices should be like.

lessavini wrote:
Following the more coherent/realistic line of reasoning, perhaps Duty and Freedom could have ammo and guns in bigger quantity and quality, given their power and organization. Though they seem to be stranded on Yanov, what implies supply routes shouldn't be easy to establish even for them.

I think the more realistic traders setup would be more or less like this:

Beard: sells food, drinks and survival supplies like batteries, bedrolls, etc. More or less like it already is now ( only with slimmer stocks).

Owl: sells "black market" stuff like cigarettes, low-end drugs, etc. besides low-end guns and ammo.(again, with slimmer stocks).

Hawaiian: sell guns and ammo in bigger quantity and quality.

Garry: Make it like vanilla where he is not a trader at all (the most realistic version) or, if one wants to stretch believability for playability purposes, just make him sell light survival stuff and trinkets like batteries, candys, etc. Having him be the walking supermarket that he is in Misery 2 is not only nonsensic, but breaks the intended setup on the militaries on Pripyat, which are supposed to be stranded and in a desperate situation.

Hmm, isn't Yanov deeper in the Zone, while Zaton is closer to the border between the deeper part of the Zone and the rest of it?
I agree about Garry though, it will be good only if he sells stuff like food and batteries.

Edited by: Yashka_Sheriff

For artifact properties I have done some tweak myself may be workable for others.

I have reduced the amount of radiation coming from artifacts when wearing, so carry 2 or 3 of them will behave more like *need more water* effect. Since we don't have thirst indicator built in. For purified water I have added very slight healing effect and slight stronger radiation removal, so drinking water/vodka become daily routine and required if wearing artifacts.

Also whichever type of anomaly create that type of artifact, wearer will have serious reduced resistances against that type. For example Sparks created from electros will give us - 30 or -40 resistance against shock. This is to prevent from over powering artifact hunting gears. There are other artifacts of different type will increase the resistance of type of element to compensate. Now a player wearing 3 fireball will really have to watch out for fire damage. I found out that to be interesting way to exploit the properties of artifacts.

Yashka, your prices seem reasonable to me. The thermal arties should be most expensive as the heat anomalies pose the highest threat. Chemical ones comes next, I think, and electrical ones should be the cheaper because they are easier to deal with.

About the location of Zaton, Yanov and Pripyat, if you look at the real life exclusion zone map (here), they are almost neighbours to each other so if one is considered center of the zone I would argue the others are too. But you're right, everybody in those locations - from Skadovsk to Yanov station - are pretty isolated/stranded over there. What brings us to my initial point: in such a scenario ammo would be scarce (and pretty expensive), as they are cut from supply routes, or these would be extremely hard/expensive to maintain. Again, I think the most plausible scenario is Yanov station having the biggest stock of items (due to the power and organization of Duty and Freedom expeditions stationed there) followed by Beard in Zaton (which would employ guides - and Nimble - to bring stuff from outside) and Owl, which in my opinion would rely on paying a fee for having a cut on everybody supplys (including bandits/sultan, Beard and even supplies going to DUty/Freedom on Yanov).

But Im already on pure speculation territory here. Dont hear me and keep on with the tweak. I hope it ends up well and we can make great use of it !

Edited by: lessavini

lessavini wrote: Yashka, your prices seem reasonable to me. The thermal arties should be most expensive as the heat anomalies pose the highest threat. Chemical ones comes next, I think, and electrical ones should be the cheaper because they are easier to deal with.

About the location of Zaton, Yanov and Pripyat, if you look at the real life exclusion zone map (here), they are almost neighbours to each other so if one is considered center of the zone I would argue the others are too. But you're right, everybody in those locations - from Skadovsk to Yanov station - are pretty isolated/stranded over there. What brings us to my initial point: in such a scenario ammo would be scarce (and pretty expensive), as they are cut from supply routes, or these would be extremely hard/expensive to maintain. Again, I think the most plausible scenario is Yanov station having the biggest stock of items (due to the power and organization of Duty and Freedom expeditions stationed there) followed by Beard in Zaton (which would employ guides - and Nimble - to bring stuff from outside) and Owl, which in my opinion would rely on paying a fee for having a cut on everybody supplys (including bandits/sultan, Beard and even supplies going to DUty/Freedom on Yanov).

But Im already on pure speculation territory here. Dont hear me and keep on with the tweak. I hope it ends up well and we can make great use of it ! :D

What an interesting map!

Indeed, heat > chem > electro is the best arrangement, but I wonder where gravity-based artifacts are to be placed. Things like Gravi and Goldfish are really valuable, while Stone Flower and Jellyfish are already widespread in and outside the Zone, but are still valuable.

Perhaps heat > chem > gravity > electro?

And does anyone know the corresponding artifacts to their names in the scripts? I can recognise most of them, but some remain obscure.

Crystal - af_cristall
Fireball - af_fireball
Mama's Beads(?) - af_dummy_glassbeads
Eye - af_eye
? - af_fire
Jellyfish - af_medusa
Stone Flower - af_cristall_flower
Night Star - af_night_star
? - af_vyvert
Gravi - af_gravi
Goldfish - af_gold_fish
Stone Blood - af_blood
Meat Chunk(?) - af_mincer_meat
Soul - af_soul
Kolobok - af_fuzz_kolobok
Bubble(?) - af_baloon
? - af_glass
Sparkler - af_electra_sparkler
Flash - af_electra_flash
Moonlight - af_electra_moonlight
Battery - af_dummy_battery
? - af_dummy_dummy
? - af_ice

Edited by: Yashka_Sheriff

There is a description associated with each of those in \gamedata\configs\text\eng\st_items_artefacts.xml

Just look for dummy_dummy and you will see what is what.

Edited by: odizzido

odizzido wrote: There is a description associated with each of those in \gamedata\configs\text\eng\st_items_artefacts.xml

Just look for dummy_dummy and you will see what is what.

Ah, thank you a lot.