Five Elite Mercenaries are send to an Island in middle of the 1980'. The Task: Find and Eliminate a local Drug Baron. Features: new Physic, real Sunmovement, Day/Night Change, Hunger/Food system, realistic (!) Weather system, Light/Dark viewing system for AI, 5 different Fractions on the Island. Complete Realistic simulation of nearly all things, including Sleep. New weapons, new Vehicles. Vehicles driving system is now exact (!) like GTA IV , FireSystem,... this mod is Heavily inspired by GTA, IGI, FarCry.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

just a short test of a new area with running vidcap (because this cause often heavy problems in timings in gameengine
with some bad sideffects, but nothing bad seen here :) )

Youtube.com

unfortunately i have actually a baaaad bad editor bug: if i save the map, the file contains only all vegetation and terrain data, but miss the 26mb xml file with all the placed stuff. editor says after saving "all ok, map saved" but its not.
luckily i have a very strong backup system but i hunt this bug now since 2 days, i can't work anymore on this map because i simply can't save it to disc anymore.will tell next days what happens further.
unfortunately debugging this is very very timeconsuming:
to find the failure (i think its something broken structure in the xml file), i have to load the cryfile (map) in editor, which takes
about ~ 3 minutes, do something which can cause the failure (maybe open material database, give a rock a new material),
then save map: ~ 4minutes. then seeing if the file is broken or not.
because of extreme memory limitations (map is to big) the memory is full after one save operation and i have to close the editor, then again this ~ 8 minute procedure. and again and again and again. have done this some hours today.

i work really on the absolute limit from cryengine 1.4 which have many strange sideffects you never was thinking off before.

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Marek33
Marek33

Maybe you have some problems with the memory or the engine isn't prepared for this. You should also try the Memtest86 to make sure that your RAM is fine.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

cryengine editor have some serious issues with ram. in a 32bit OS, the max amount of memory for a programm is theoretically 2gb, practically its 1.9gb.
at 1.7gb usage the editor ask if enough memory is "free" for further operations, and even if editor would need 1 bit he always reports "not enough memory".
but this is not the problem i have actually with non saving the map at all, because IT DO save it but it "forgot" to add the core xml file into the package.
will investigate today further if i can find the cause. its not a hardware problem.

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Marek33
Marek33

I see, but it's weird that it can remember almost all of it except some of the new stuff like you said.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

the xml file is a biiiiiiiiig database, and its already 26mb (!) in size, it have actually 109.397 lines (each line have sometimes houndred of entrys). if ONE point or exlamatationmarc is somewhere "broken" / missing the whole database is ruined.

today i found another horrible thing by testing "load a savegame" from that big map:
in log file
Error: CRenderer::EF_GetObject: Too many objects (> 4096)
(but map is loaded^^)

i wtf: grabbed the xml base for objectcount: ~2600 (i think it is that simpleentity objectcount, because brush (>300.000) count and vegetation (>millions) count goes much higher in that map.

however, we never should forget that the editor we work with have already "beta" in his name and the cryengine1.4 is not the final stable and best one :D

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pvcf Author
pvcf

oooh fuuuuuck :
Cryengine.com

in a ~5 years more develeped version of editor the user got editor crashes by exceeding the object count limitation (in that case 16k). that means my 4k object limitation is real, and i fear i know the answer: cryengine creats LOD objects of objects who didnt have one: 2.5k objects with ateast LOD1 and LOD2 gives a three times higher object count than expected.
ofcourse such things with limitations are never and nowwhere documented and mentioned... it "happens" sometimes and then you wonder why the project stops "this day".
every week such a new thing appear -.-

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Marek33
Marek33

Isn't xml a text file? Since 26Mb is like installing some game which has over 100GB and that's a lot of data.

I know exactly about what you are talking about. I want to merge Iron Sights and weapon fire switch in my private mod and I can't find why it doesn't work. And the problem was that I have a one simple dot on a place where it shouldn't be.

Yes, beta things are not reliable. Unfortunately a ton of todays games which have “beta” versions are basically demos are not betas. And also, they will not change in comparison with your beta for example.

It's probably that, but it could be something else. However, I'm not an expect on this so I don't really know.

Unfortunately the companies don't mention things like this because they wouldn't earn so much money because they care more about them than the customers. Also, most of the companies wouldn't expect that someone like you would be making such a huge and massive mod which would be so different from the vanilla game so they wouldn't think that someone would find bugs like this. Or another version they don't even knew things like this since they don't push the engine to absolute extremes like you.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

it is a xml text file which is 26mb in size, 109.397 entry lines (tables and stuff at EACH of this lines).

spended the last hours to insert entity counting routines, its always very complicated because devkid spawn on runtime "virtual" entities like footstep decals, tiremarcs, precached weaponmodels, weapondrops and such stuff. its all ok for gamemode, because in game all happens exactly one time, but in editor all happens again and again on each reset (reset is called if you enter or leave game->edit mode).

my new testroutines are now working, i could then easy insert the functions in my new cheatmenu, (needed only 8 seconds to insert those functions with keyhandler).
and they showed things i didnt have thinked about: first i inserted a count+1 for each entity like weapon, vehicle, AI, prop and so on, tested this on a testmap, it shows ~226 entities (still a lot). then i called a new second testroutine which counts real all actual in the world existend entities and whoom, the counter rises to ~400.
so i inserted a third routine which prints each entity by name and countnumber into the log file and surprise: i forgot all the scripts which are placed as entities on map. for example each soundspot is one entity, and on a big map i have houndreds such soundspots, also every doorscript is one, but have also a door model, so a door "eats up" a minimum of 2 entities, if its a door with 2 wings = 3 entities... if you can destroy it...
wow, this is a total new problem.
but now i have a realtime entity counter on screen and can take care in editor, so i didnt exceed the 4096 limitation. have also recodet some routines so i'm sure that all the dynamic spawned entities are not merged into the savegame (thats where the error appeared!).

and maybe this all caused also a table crash in editor.

btw crytek could not find this "bug" or "behaviour" in farcry, because the game FPS break in pieces if you place, lets say, 100 pyhsical entities in the map and activate them once. it will freeze to death.
but devkid can handle that by a very complex streaming routine which i needed ~3 years for.
thats why i can explore such new bugs :D

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Marek33
Marek33

Then it's a big file indeed.

That's strange.

That's good to hear!

Maybe that was the problem, but I believe that you will fix it one day.

I see. However, now I have a question. You have on some maps over 100 physical entities which can be blown in at one moment?

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pvcf Author
pvcf

i have on the map shown above over 2.600 physical entities and could theoretical (without that 16bit limitation) add tousends more.
but not every physical entity is explodable :D
the streamer simply deactivates totally all entities outside a give range around the player, so practically on each "scene" or screen the player is, the entity count is not very high, something about ~10-50 , seldome some houndreds (the wooden canyon fortress if you remember?).
destroying all of them in the same second cause instant CPU death and engine freeze.
but cryengine could even didnt handle the pure existence of such amount of things, because once activated by "seeing", they are all the time full processed, even if they are far far away.
it goes worse with the AI pathfinding. thats why crytek uses hotspots whith ~5-6 AI and maybe 5-6 props and mostly they can be sure that the AI was killed and therefor removed after passing that hotspot, so the FPS was not so heavy influenced, and new AI was then activated by entering the next hotspot. but my maps are real open world ^^ all are active all the time.

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Marek33
Marek33

I was thinking that, but wasn't sure. And of course, when everything would be destructible, it would crash the engine.

I remember, but not very good.

I have enough problems with some things in PC as it is and I don't need more.

So, it's like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., but all of the maps are active at all time?

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pvcf Author
pvcf

> but all of the maps are active at all time?

if you mean entities: not, only the ones inside the actual streamingpool and those ones who have set a special "bealways" active boolean.

>when everything would be destructible, it would crash the engine.

maybe not really, but crashing all the same time would cause permadeath :D

> Maybe that was the problem, but I believe that you will fix it one day.

if it was not corrupted memory and "only" a database failure, i maybe could stream the pool to SSD instead to memory :D
but honestly, that would be some kind of crazy and would kill the SSD very fast, because i also would have to write by leaving every streamingsector (that means, if you walk constantly, every ~ 5seconds) the whole entity pool to disc. its not so big amount of data i think, but SSD's didnt like that :D

> I want to merge Iron Sights and weapon fire switch in my > private mod and I can't find why it doesn't work.

try harder :D maye its only a missing variable or a function is simply not called.
if you need scripting help, drop a line, as far as i have seen stalker lua scripting is nearly identically to cryengine.

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Marek33
Marek33

I mean, if its like the maps in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or if all of the maps are active at the same time so it's like in an RPG game. The Elders of Scrolls, Gothic, Witcher or Fallout.

Yes, SSDs have a very small space so they are definitely not for me. Even if their speed is very useful. They are unfortunately pricey and especially in Europe, where we have much bigger prices for a component.

I mean it for Cryengine 1 and I solved it almost a year ago. I don't remember how, but it works now and I have multiple copies of that file so it's not a problem.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

> I mean, if its like the maps in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or if all of the > maps are active at the same time so it's like in an RPG game. > The Elders of Scrolls, Gothic, Witcher or Fallout.

it's actually like fallout, its just a big map in memory but i stream entities anyway inside this map.
chris roberts have done another nice thing actually in his cryengine~3 for star citizens: they invented a seemless sector streaming system which allows to stream maps (?), or atleast simple big bunches of xml tables (a map is basically nothing else).

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Marek33
Marek33

That's good to see, but you don't have a problem with the performance then? In Fallout there is a one big problem with it. The AI can't see you when you shoot them at 200m (or maybe even at around 150m). There will be a mod which will fix it (ProjectB42) hopefully one day.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

ofcourse i have performance problems, but without streaming the whole stuff, it would simply totally impossible what i do. there would then be literary no performance :D
about AI and 200m : i have the same "problem", because stream means that objects outside such a radius are not rendered and processed and not updated (dont remember exactly the radius i use, its dynamicly set (outdoor, indoor, vehicle, aircrafts,boat, all different radiusses).
ofcourse you can change such a radius or simply have activated all the stuff on the map all the time, but that costs performance or it would immediately drop a ~40-50 FPS to 1-2 FPS ^^ constantly ^^

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Marek33
Marek33

I was thinking that, but if its more than 20 or 30 fps then it's good enough.

That's not a very good thing to see since there should be at least 300 or 400m most of the time.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

i update enemies at a longer range than cryengine draws them. the default entity draw distance of entities is 55meter * entity size. so actually it feels ok, i also didnt want that player can kill enemies at to big ranges , it should be a stealth game, not a wander simulater at all ^^
but this discussion is only theoretically natur: have tested it some hours before: all look and feels ok, you never ever see a popping in entity or see something disapearing from screen.

> but if its more than 20 or 30 fps then it's good enough.

unfortunately that depends on your PC gear :/

> That's not a very good thing to see since there should be at > least 300 or 400m most of the time.

the environment is rendered about such distances (450m actually).

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Marek33
Marek33

That's great! I hate popping in sandbox games. It's especially noticeable in Mafia 2 and Fallout 3 and NV, and especially on the textures in the Assassin's Creed 2. Later Far Cry games have it as well, but I don't much care about it and Saboteur is overall a great game so it's not much of a problem.

On my new PC it shouldn't be a problem, except the memory limitation.

That's good enough.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

cryengine can switch between popping and fading, default is fading, works very good and is best possible i think.
the texture loading bug in cryengine 2 and higher is really anyoing. theoretically (i think) it was designed to speed up map loading.
there is then a sectorstreaming system, which allows to load needed textures in neighborhood sectors, but someone messed it up and "forgot" to preload the inital sector textures :D
and its so strange that this bug is transported all over the cryengine iterations (ok, didnt know the newest versions, crytek seems at the end of their road).

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Marek33
Marek33

It definitely is.

I don't have any texture problems in Crysis 1 except at the start it takes about under a one second to show all of the textures. On my old PC I don't remember this, but, but I think I have it.

Maybe it's fixed, but Crytek release engines a lot faster than we the players notice most of the hidden problems like this.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

the problem is, that the ones who have created those core engines and techniques are gone, to ID software and to Sid Meier.
i read regulary at glassdor.com from crytek employes their insight views and it doesnt looks good whats going on at their side since many years.

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Marek33
Marek33

Crytek is with EA so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if they shut them down. They have already shut down Westwood, Pandemic, Black Box Games, Phenomic and many more. Here is a full list if you are interested: Kotaku.com

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pvcf Author
pvcf

i know about EA's history, crytek is not together with EA, crytek is at its own and have problems paying their employees, like last year before they sold cryengine to amazon.

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Marek33
Marek33

That's good, but I'm not sure, but since EA is the publisher in the bigger Crytek games I was thinking that they are in charge. It's still a strange way they don't take more time for the Crysis 2 then.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

crysis didnt sell well and EA did not proceed further with that IP, because as far as i know, the IP is still by crytek. but no publisher no money.

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Marek33
Marek33

Do you mean Crysis 1 and Warhead or the other two?

I think that Crytek will not be here for long unless they start making PC exclusives again. Especially now when there are so few FPS PC games which can be similar to theirs.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

i mean crysis1-3, but they focus since many years on stuff which caused a 8millions euro load / month for employes and return nearly nothing, look at the list, nearly the last 10 or 12 games didnt have had the power to refill the monthly costs :
Crytek.com

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Marek33
Marek33

They shouldn't make games on consoles (and especially doesn't downgrade them) because they don't have problems like this when they were making games only for PC.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

they have sold not the amount of copies for crysis1 as they expected and yerli said the PC and illigal copies was the cause, so they go with crysis 2 the console way, later F2P and actually oculus. it seems all of those decisions were and was not the best ones.
or maybe they have to face the point that crytek games are looking very well but maybe not really fit the market.
farcry2, facry3 and farcry4 are the best example, they sell very well ... on PC and on consoles...

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Marek33
Marek33

Unfortunately, I found about that after playing Crysis 2 because otherwise I wouldn't expect so much. Plus, when they have started to make their games on consoles they have to invent more money because they need to learn how to do that. Maybe someone else has to learn them that or they have a team which would them how to make it. Furthermore, a company which was a PC exclusive it wasn't much of a smart move since a lot of fans don't like it including me. Especially since C2 was nothing like Crysis 1. It's not about graphic anymore, but mostly about the fact that the C2 is very different from C1 and its not a huge sandbox type of a game, but a small linear fps. It's mostly still a sandbox, but with a much smaller maps and with a different gameplay.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

yeah, have readen also a lot if interviews from yerli about their plans of storytelling in games... cinematic... interactive cinematics was the buzzword after crysis3 for ryse, son of rom, and all say it looks fantastic but have poor and boring gameplay... and then they directed to F2P and got grounded very very harsh.

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Marek33
Marek33

My thoughts exactly! Ryse is interesting, but it never really interested me because of the gameplay and also that it has Cryengine 3 which I don't really much like because it feels very consoles. The main thing is that it just isn't much of a type of game for me and I don't have a PC for it back when it came out.

I never played and never was a big fan of F2P since most of them are Pay To Win. Even Survarium wasn't really stood out. And I liked every S.T.A.L.K.E.R. game (even the CS, but it definitely needs some basic mods to be enjoyable). The main problem of the Survarium was that it hasn't got any mods. On the other hand the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series has a lot of story mods which makes it like a completely new game.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

was Survarium a real geam? i didnt have played it, looked for me in trailers like a MP area game... ?

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Marek33
Marek33

I don't know what exactly do you mean by a geam, but Its an MP area game like you said.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

real game: SP + Story :D

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Marek33
Marek33

And also exploration, great gameplay and no expansion packs, DLCs or other things like that.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

yeah :) exploration is a big must have.
for example i'm a big fan of GTA3, GTA3 SA, GTA3 VC, but GTA4 was boring, only a endless city -.- will see how GTA5 runs on my PC :)

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Marek33
Marek33

I would probably wait for a little better PC (in your case) if you plan to mod it, but it doesn't have such a big requirement like the GTA4 has at its time so you should be fine.

Also, you should really get the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky and especially Call of Pripyat which is similar to Shoc. Plus Call of Pripyat has a lot of mods. Clear Sky doesn't so much, but it definitely has some which are great.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

i even can't run gta4 in good quality, all is halfed and i have ~30-40 FPS sometimes :D
so i can be lucky if GTA5 will run on my rigg at low settings :D i hope i find some time to install the 7 dvd's this or next week :D
thank you for your mod and game advice, the stalker series is already an my wishlist, but my timebudget is sooooooooo limited, i even did not have half finished lost and damned add on from gta4 and even not started ballad of gay tony -.-

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Marek33
Marek33

I haven't played GTA4 or GTA5 since its not much my type of a game (I prefer story games like Mafia 1) and I'm not much of a GTA anyway. I highly recommend you to watch the PC port report by TotalBiscuit Youtube.com

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky I get as a present from a friend and I bought CoP for two euros, which was an insane price considering the massive amount of content. And even if that shop was closed (because they don't have enough money) the price has been absolutely low. Even Crysis Warhead was costed there only one euro. Even the Shoc cost only two euros in one shop, but I bought it for five euros in one great shop.

Also, if you want we can continue in PM since its more simple and you get the notification right at the login.

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Raygoza
Raygoza

I wonder if there are any released games with their engines already pushed to the limits by the developers. Excluding mods from fans.

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pvcf Author
pvcf

starcitizen by chris roberts and maybe aion.

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