New X tier units models + heroic aesthetics Thread - Red Alert 3 Paradox mod for C&C: Red Alert 3

So, it seems allies took lessons from troll science: take something and vigourusly apply SCIENCE to it. In this case to some old I-dont-even-know-its-name ww2 tech. As developers are remodeling TX units, I would like to suggest to make them gain more sciency bits with each level of experience. Its purely asthetical (well, not so as units gain bonuses with each level, so bits could be orientieted to show this).

They look like WW2 vehicles that don't match the faction

Yeah, this style is more suited for confederates, hopefully devs will make them more "boxy" and take more interpretation and freestyle.

Edited by: haryys

The original Barkhausen and Particle Expeller WERE boxy - the reason they're changing them is to get away from that aesthetic. And the interpretation the dev team have decided for the experimental vehicles is that they're using old vehicle chassis and slapping new, highly untested weaponry into/onto them for the most part.

not as boxxy as the new ones

The old models were far less detailed than the new.

...Which is the good part.

But the confed vibe is just to much. Jury rigging awesomness to WWII stuff isn't the allies. They'd jury rig it to a brand new vehicle. Well the barkhausen does this, while I don't think the leopard fits their visual style really (its for one way to serious, if I saw it IRL i wouldn't be react), the Liechter Panzerspähwagen particle collider however...

Seriously now 3 factions have WWII stuff. Confeds have a Sherman, the GLA have a M8 armored car, and then of all factions out there...

...the Allies! wat???

It's expensive to create a new chassis every time you want to build something that is being tested, when you could just throw it onto a Leopard and then test it, you know?

Hmm putting all your new expensive sciency equipment on obselete unefficient old tech chasises seems to be the best option instead of mounting it on chasises you've already developed. You've spent so much time and money developing the experimental weapons only to decide to put your trust in an old pre war-vehicle? That's like the Brits testing their 17-pounder cannons in WW2 by putting it on British MK1 tanks from WW1 so they can test it's field potency.

The Leopard is a relatively modern (per 1969) military design - International Inc's selling them after all in their catalogue. The Liechter is a different matter...I'd go for RoC in that case.

The Allies are under stress and pressure to rush these things to the field, they aren't carefully designing new chassis designs (which would take the 'fragile' out of Tier but rather hurriedly taking the nearest available military design and bolting what they have so far on to it. While I would encourage more...modern vehicle basis (Grizzly Tanks, Scorpions, Leopards, etc.), think about it - if the Allies do develop all new vehicle chassises for these things, they're going to iron out the glaring vulnerabilities that make the Tier X stuff fragile.

If, in-game, your Particle Expeller was mounted on a conventional Allied modern chassis, how could you argue it was extra delicate? The Allies have chobham and composite armors, it should be able to take more than a few hits and survive! But, if in-game your Expeller is mounted hastily on a converted interwar (2-3) vehicle, suddenly it makes more sense to keep it away from frontal combat - it looks more fragile and weaker in terms of armor and health.

The Allies aren't putting their trust in these vehicles - they're stopgap measures, intended to buy time until the Allies can come up with REAL designs. In the campaign, you'll probably have those technologies creep into actual combat worthy vehicles as the campaign progresses - with new TierX technologies replacing the old ones, of course.

I only said the Leopard does not correspond with Allies visual style. The Particle Collider based on the Liechter Panzerspähwagen, a german WWII vehicle when they could put it on any new modern armored IFV instead.

You've got cheaper and ready to use mass produced modern Allied chaisses to use and you bring a most likely rusting and dusty chasis from the armour graveyard to use?
Allies armour isn't exactly the most hardiest anyway

As Proud said, International Inc is mass producing these and the Allies are buying. They aren't rusting and dusty, they're new.

Now, if the Allies were grabbing Ranger Scout Cars from boneyards, then the Allies would be really nervous about fielding their experiments. The Leopard is relatively safer to mount tech on, and we don't know how long these stop gap measures are needed. The Allies could probably have a chasis for the Barkhausen's microwave tech (Barkhausen Mk II) by 1970. Or it could take them till 1975, or 1971, or 1978, or ect.

so... instead of relying on your own manufactured, licensed, updated and perhaps slightly cheaper designs you decide to buy another company's ancient design(even if it's 1 year old it could easily be outdated due to the weapon advancement, the only reason why countries don't stick with the sherman design was because it was outdated and inefficient compared to other designs and going back and using it is silly when you have better ones at hand) to use for your high tech super weapon which you spent way too much time and money to develop? Sorry it still doesn't make sense.
You've also got a mirage chasis which most likely have larger mounting space for any technological design(and being well known for being fragile) and etc but that's beside the point, it still doesn't match the allies design scheme at all. It's like giving the Confeds a mirage-like tank for PAWI because it needs a better vehicle to mount it on.

Edited by: IFork

In Paradox time, the Leopard isn't a year old. It's cheaper than the chassis the Allies create for their actual fielded vehicles and they're easy to get en masse from International Inc. We've stated this multiple times, the only one not making any sense is you IFork.

Everyone arguing with iFork is speaking about the leopard while he speaks about the Particle Collider Modelcars.com

That one does not fit allied design scheme, it's a true WWII vehicle...

R3ven wrote: In Paradox time, the Leopard isn't a year old. It's cheaper than the chassis the Allies create for their actual fielded vehicles and they're easy to get en masse from International Inc. We've stated this multiple times, the only one not making any sense is you IFork.

So give me an example from the Vanilla Allies faction that has the same design as the Leopard. New Paradox ones don't count because these are experimental tier which means they're supposed to be sciency and advanced. Don't say that I don't make sense, maybe if you look at the model and think logically for a few seconds and wonder why you're buying someone else's car just to put a million dollar microwave dish on it when you could easily put it on one of your own cars(eg THE MULTIGUNNER THAT LOOKS LIKE A JEEP AND IS JUST AS FRAGILE).

Tier X isn't supposed to be reliable. The Allies can't afford to make specialty chassis for them, just to have them get destroyed. Which is why they buy the Leopard chassis en masse for cheap.

there is another factor: the equipment itself. it is already stated on te rosenberg that the systems involved for making the vhehicle work would overcook the crew if it was to be situated in a cobham-armored vehicle. the same counts for the barkenhauser, but i do not know stuff about the particle expeller.

IFork wrote:

R3ven wrote: In Paradox time, the Leopard isn't a year old. It's cheaper than the chassis the Allies create for their actual fielded vehicles and they're easy to get en masse from International Inc. We've stated this multiple times, the only one not making any sense is you IFork.

So give me an example from the Vanilla Allies faction that has the same design as the Leopard. New Paradox ones don't count because these are experimental tier which means they're supposed to be sciency and advanced. Don't say that I don't make sense, maybe if you look at the model and think logically for a few seconds and wonder why you're buying someone else's car just to put a million dollar microwave dish on it when you could easily put it on one of your own cars(eg THE MULTIGUNNER THAT LOOKS LIKE A JEEP AND IS JUST AS FRAGILE).

The Multigunner chassis is not available because of in-game reasons - it'd just confuse people when trying to use both units or distinguish between them. As for logic, it is logically better to buy a cheap, commercially available chassis from someone else and mount what you've already developed onto it while you use saved money to try and develop a better, more sufficient chassis that you can put in X years down the road.

As said, they're stopgap measures - the people who have developed the million-dollar equipment don't want to put it in the field, but the Allied military-industrial complex is demanding this stuff be available NOW to Allied generals and they're just throwing what they have together.

So what if you buy other Leopard vehicles? You guys are wanking really hard to justify the lore but still did not state how it'll fit the Allies actual design scheme which in question is OP's main contention.

@R3ven yea like I said look at the multigunner heck you can probably even stick a microwave in it and it'll turn into a barkhausen. So lets stick a heat producing machine into a metal car since it's so reliable right?

@Gears How is it any better if it's mounted on a vehicle made of metal ? You'll cook the entire car with the engines and the crew and would make it impossible to retreive anything for a large amount of time in the heat of battle(pun pun). Using metal would be way deadlier since the heat produced is enough to cook the crew it might also be hot enough to melt the car itself or damage it. As far as I'm concerned isn't Cobham an insulator?

@ProudAmerikan Buying a non specialist or commercial vehicle means you can't modify it without legal work(even if you can get it approved it'll take a long time considering you're talking about an arms dealing corporation here) or ask for a new design process that can fit the machine itself perfectly(if you're so into the economics of it). You still have to hollow the back seat and cut open the roof to attach it and all I can say is that it'll be fucking cramped and incorporating the machine design into the humvee(face it even an 8-year old knows the leopard is a humvee) will be even more expensive than mass producing your own chasis capable of housing them instantly.

Edited by: IFork

IFork wrote: So what if you buy other Leopard vehicles? You guys are wanking really hard to justify the lore but still did not state how it'll fit the Allies actual design scheme which in question is OP's main contention.

@R3ven yea like I said look at the multigunner heck you can probably even stick a microwave in it and it'll turn into a barkhausen. So lets stick a heat producing machine into a metal car since it's so reliable right?

@Gears How is it any better if it's mounted on a vehicle made of metal ? You'll cook the entire car with the engines and the crew and would make it impossible to retreive anything for a large amount of time in the heat of battle(pun pun). Using metal would be way deadlier since the heat produced is enough to cook the crew it might also be hot enough to melt the car itself or damage it. As far as I'm concerned isn't Cobham an insulator?

Coolness > Realism

IFork wrote: @ProudAmerikan Buying a non specialist or commercial vehicle means you can't modify it without legal work(even if you can get it approved it'll take a long time considering you're talking about an arms dealing corporation here) or ask for a new design process that can fit the machine itself perfectly(if you're so into the economics of it). You still have to hollow the back seat and cut open the roof to attach it and all I can say is that it'll be fucking cramped and incorporating the machine design into the humvee(face it even an 8-year old knows the leopard is a humvee) will be even more expensive than mass producing your own chasis capable of housing them instantly.

There's this great new invention called a contract, it allows you to do things within terms. International Inc probably cares about the money it gets from the Allies, not what the Allies do with such a simple thing as a chassis. And we've said it once, we'll say it until it gets jammed into your head. The Allies need a cheap chassis to mount their machinery on, cutting metal is not a hard thing to do, nor is it very time consuming. On the other hand, shaping a chassis can take a while and it can get costly, especially if you're just going to throw it out on the field and have it explode.

Your the ones that are trying bring realism in and putting WW2 vehicles into the allies isn't cool, its fucking retarded because it doesn't fit.

R3ven wrote:
There's this great new invention called a contract, it allows you to do things within terms. International Inc probably cares about the money it gets from the Allies, not what the Allies do with such a simple thing as a chassis. And we've said it once, we'll say it until it gets jammed into your head. The Allies need a cheap chassis to mount their machinery on, cutting metal is not a hard thing to do, nor is it very time consuming. On the other hand, shaping a chassis can take a while and it can get costly, especially if you're just going to throw it out on the field and have it explode.

O stfu would they give it to you for the same price? You think they would give you a free mod to their design and change their whole production structure and stop their whole manufacturing line just to create a few vehicles for something that you say will explode? You think cutting metal and simply changing a design is that easy? What would happen with their PR if they lease it to the Allies and the public and potential clients see them all explode without knowing the vehicles housing an experimental weapon? Ok then lets talk corporation if you think bringing up a year 10 basic business education term is an I WEEEN moment. Stop nitpicking at my queries and answer all the points I have raised instead of countering a single point and acting like your dick got an erection for the first time.

if cobham is an insulator, it would trap the heat inside. nice oven you got there.