Blender or 3dsmax? Thread

I'm trying to get into modeling for Half-Life 1, and I was wondering which program would be better to use. I've tried out 3dsMax, and it looks like it has a lot of cool features, but I've also heard a lot of good things about Blender. So which program do think would be better to use (Especially for a beginner like me)?

I have a lot more experience with Blender than I do 3ds Max, but I'll give you my opinion. I personally think that Blender is better simply because of the price: free. It also has Sculpting Tools built in and you can easily bake normal maps, which my be useful for your mods. Also, I've seen artwork come out of Blender that looks just as good as stuff that was made with 3ds Max. It all comes down to how long you've been using the program. You can also decide for yourself, as Blender is free and I'm pretty sure there is a trial version of 3ds Max. One of the things that some people find is a con is the interface. I've heard it called "frustrating", "anti-productive", and "linuxy". Just take a tutorial or two from the Blender: Noob to Pro wiki, and you'll have most of it figured out in no time at all!

3ds Max is way better then blender. 3ds max costs money (if you want to pay the money...most people don't lol) but it has such much more features. There is also other tools which are good is z-brush is supposed to be really good. If you want to go free i would say xsi is best option for source.

I would doubt this a lot. Show a list of features max has and I'm pretty sure Blender stacks up to it if not having some features on its own lacking there.

Also, Blender is about to go through a huge upgrade, from 2.49 to 2.5. Complete UI redo, enhancements in the code structure, new features, etc. Also, a game making company, Entertainment Arts, is overhauling the game engine for use with their production, and the Blender license says that they have to share the code, so those features will be incorporated into the Blender's Game Engine.

I think the answers are going to depend largely on what community you ask. Moddb has more modders and indy developers, which tend to praise Blender more (my guess is the price tag plus they like the open source community). Hop on over to a 3d-specific community like game-artist.net however, and you'll run into more max users and they're bound to have their reasons.

My two cents: doesn't matter if an artist has a ball of clay or a bar of soap, they can still make something out of it. That said, looking for jobs on sites like gamasutra will show that most big developers are looking for Autodesk users, none mention blender. Same tends to go for big movies as well. I'm sure there's some great blender artists out there but I can't seem to find them; the work I see on Blenders site (while good), just comes off as professionally average. The stuff that tends to blow me in games and movies is always Autodesk Product + zBrush.

Blender is a very reliable program, it has a very different workflow from the max, and acclaimed to be a fast one for that matter. Be free is just a plus.

Basically both programs can accomplish pretty much the same results by different ways.

Even that I am a max user, I strongly suggest to you start at Blender. It will make you less vicious and more open to other softwares (Maya and Cin4D and others too). To learn Blender you will have to get a good 3D visualization and understanding base.

@Cyrid: I doubt some Blender made stuff is mediocre at best. Seeing as how many AAA games have mediocre graphics I would not shit down on skilled artists using Blender. As you said, it's the artists who has to be skilled. A good app won't make him wonder. And some Blender created work ( including sculpting ) is damn awesome and in my opinion more than AAA class stuff. Free doesn't mean it's shit. When do people learn this. Blender started out as a non-free soft and got turned free. Now it's growing faster than any commercial product out there and that's no joke. From 2.38 up to 2.48 is like day and night and that's in very short time and as mentioned 2.5 is going to put some more onto it.

@Cyrid: I doubt some Blender made stuff is mediocre at best...

You don't think 'some' blender made stuff is mediocre at best, does this mean you think every blender made asset is automatically godly?
I'm assuming you don't since you quoted me in saying the app doesn't determine the quality, I'm just wondering where you got the idea I said Blender work sucked and can not be awesome? And did I ever say free means shit too?

I simply said I couldn't find any stunning examples from the Blender community, unlike the Autodesk and zBrush users that dominate the 3d industry.

Blendernation.com

indeed skilled people make a difference

@Cyrid: In fact you said it again making it twice but maybe some quotes help to refresh your memory?

the work I see on Blenders site (while good), just comes off as professionally average

I simply said I couldn't find any stunning examples from the Blender community

You keep say there exists no high quality stuff made with Blender which is 180° away from what you claim you say. That's what I call a Janus Faced person.

Edited by: Dragonlord

It never fails to amaze me how, thread after thread, you fail to see what was written and instead insist on twisiting words around. To me this is just making you sound like a blender fanboy, trying to defend your program from any percieved threat, even when statements made aren't attacks against the program.

Look at my quotes. The work I have found so far strikes me as being professionally average. This means I can not find any stunning examples from the Blender community. THIS DOES NOT MEAN STUNNING BLENDER WORK ISN'T OUT THERE. IT DOES NOT MEAN HIGH QUALITY BLENDER ASSETS DO NOT EXIST. It means I have yet to find any myself.

Shall I find some crayons and draw it out for you?

It always amazes me how much of an ignorant prick you are. Please tell me how this quote of yours

the work I see on Blenders site (while good), just comes off as
professionally average. The stuff that tends to blow me in games and
movies is always Autodesk Product + zBrush.

is not telling Blender is shit. I'm not a fanboy but you obviously are. It's not Autodesk Product + zBrush so it has to be average without a chance of being great. Sorry but to me ( and I think any sane reader ) this sounds like an out front attack.

Edited by: Dragonlord

Also, if you think 'professionaly average' equates to shit, I think you severely under estimate the skill required to create a professional asset.

Edited by: Cryrid

yes and saying autodesk product + zbrush is better is better because?
generalizing that 3dsmax is the best because everyone uses it is stupid
i agree, it has proven itself, but so has blender :/
it is allso known that blenders animation pipeline is superior to any of your beloved autodesk products :/

People who tend to only side with blender (which is awesome imho) also tend to say that all software should be free, anyone who tries to make $$ with blender is stealing from the community, other software completely sucks, etc.

I use blender because it's free. It was my second choice to a cheap copy of Lightwave 9. But the wife said no. I've never liked 3DSMax's interface, never felt "good" to me so I never bothered with it. When you have a choice why not go with what works best for you?

Could Blender do what Lightwave, 3DSMax, Maya, etc. do? Sure. It's not used like those though. Those are industry veterans. They've been around for, at least, a decade. Blender has been do, but it hasn't really been accessible until ~5 years ago. When Blender was new it was near impossible to figure out. When Maya was new it came with ~30lb's of manuals for every possible thing you'd want to know.

I agree with Cyrid on his recomendation: check out blender because it's free. You can see how you like it. If you want a job with a "pro" company you'll need something else anyway (maya, 3dsmax, lightwave) so you'll at least know all the principles before you spend thousands on something you'll get past the install screen & say "ok, now what?". I'd say the closest to Blender is Maya in interface.

However I find "pro" subject. If you get paid, you're a "pro". Doesn't matter what you use. Even companies with millions of dollars invested in their products buy stock assets so that right there says that most of the time, unless it's vitally important, there isn't much time/thought/work put in to the asset. AKA why make a lightbulb model when you can buy 100 of them for $20?

Sigma wrote: yes and saying autodesk product + zbrush is better is better because?

I'd say zbrush is better from a basic artistic standpoint: each tool for the correct job. You don't use a screwdriver as a chisel & you don't use a chisel as a screwdriver. Yeah, they'll work, but not as well as the intended tool. Zbrush isn't meant to do what 3dsmax/blender/maya/lightwave are meant to do. Those, in general, aren't meant to do what ZBrush can do. They can, but only to a point.

Edited by: TheHappyFriar

@Cryrid:
It would be way more helpful if you would muster up "arguments" instead of uncalled for and outright childish fuck-you images. But I guess you are not smart enough to come up with arguments so the cheap old fuck-you hammers have to be called into play. A pity reporting posts is not possible but that's life.

TheHappyFriar wrote:

Sigma wrote: yes and saying autodesk product + zbrush is better is better because?

I'd say zbrush is better from a basic artistic standpoint: each tool for the correct job. You don't use a screwdriver as a chisel & you don't use a chisel as a screwdriver. Yeah, they'll work, but not as well as the intended tool. Zbrush isn't meant to do what 3dsmax/blender/maya/lightwave are meant to do. Those, in general, aren't meant to do what ZBrush can do. They can, but only to a point.

i was actualy making a point that cryid says (or gives the intention) that autodesk+zbrush is the best and only sollution

hey dragonlord, remember that fanboy picture of yours? :p

yes and saying autodesk product + zbrush is better is better because?

I invite you to point out where I said Autodesk + zBrush was the best and only solution. I'd like to see where I even said they were better. I mentioned how the stuff that blows me away happens to be created with these applications, but that doesn't make the applications any better. Autodesk just has a massive grip on the industry, and a habit of marketing itself to say 'look what they made using our tools'. It's far easier for me to say "oh, I loved that game/movie", than to find something on Blender's site that I've heard of. Again this is reflective of the Blender community, not the application itself as its still growing. But God forbid anyone say anything potentially negative about blender here.

It would be way more helpful if you would muster up "arguments" instead of uncalled for and outright childish fuck-you images. But I guess you are not smart enough to come up with arguments so the cheap old fuck-you hammers have to be called into play. A pity reporting posts is not possible but that's life.

I've put my arguments forth on my first post, TheHappyFriar seems to have gotten this. Not my fault if you want to ignore half of the post and twist the other half into some form of attack against yourself or your program of choice. But hey, continue to call me a "janus faced" "ignorant jerk" who is "isn't smart enough to make arguments", because that surely isn't "uncalled" for or "childish".

I'd have to say Cyrid is right. I don't see how his statement was at all offensive to Blender, the community, or artwork that was created with the tool. I also agree that 3ds Max is way more popular, as a plethura of movies, games, etc have had assets created with the tool. I love Blender just as much as the next fanboy, but I don't see how Cyrid's comment was offensive.... I also don't understand why it got to this level of an argument, seen as how m82sniper was only asking which tool he should use for half-life 1 mods....

Edited by: falcro

Are you stupid or just playing stupid? See this quote ( I quoted it now for the third time ):

The stuff that tends to blow me in games and movies is always Autodesk Product + zBrush.

I even highlighted the word. He says when things are good it is "always" the mentioned product. For those having slept in math class always means everything else is "excluded". Hell if I would come and say this and that is "always" better than every guy in here would take out the bashing hammer but oh if somebody else says it and I point it out I'm suddenly the bad guy. But okay, if you want to play the asshole game be it. More highlighting than that I can't. No need to stay in this topic any longer. People like to do polemics instead of argumentation. A lot easier since you don't have to counter a point with actual counter-arguments <.=.<

EDIT: and DeathCaller don't twist around the truth. The topic got locked due to "your" last post not "my" last post. So it was not my post causing the lock-down. I simply mentioned the pros and cons of each side. I never bashed Microsoft in this post unless you consider stating as a con that one product only runs on Windows an attack on Microsoft but then your language skills suck even more than I think right now. And if you insist on getting me banned for being "negative" then don't fill a topic with it but use this little icon found in member profiles to report a member.

Edited by: Dragonlord

How is saying that the stuff that blows him away is always from "Autodesk Product + zBrush" offensive to Blender? 3ds Max, zBrush, Maya, etc are all programs that you pay a hefty fine for using. They're supposed to be better than free programs. And because of the fact that Blender has not been used in a major production (as far as I know) except for the Open Projects, that leaves no choice but to say the other product is better, because of the fact that Blender isn't included in any of these. Now don't go on rambling on how giant movie productions should use Blender because its better or what not. 3ds Max, Maya, etc have been around for quite a bit longer than Blender, so they have become the norm. It takes time for a program to be realized as a great tool, and accepted in huge markets like the Game Making and Movie Making Industry.

Sigma I understand that you are friends with Dragonlord but as you have the "staff" tag, I ask you to restrain him from being yet again a negative voice in the moddb community.

well, i am not part of the forum staff, i do other things around here

but still, valid arguments have been made but cyrid and dragonlord, stop getting personal or i will have to get the proper staff in here :p

Ive been meaning to give blender a try ...

Im using 3Dsmax 9 right now, but due to the fact that blender is free, and people say its good ... it makes me wanna try it out ...

Although, ive been putting it off because i want to learn more about high poly character modeling using Zbrush ...