Report poll You prefer game levels to be

Poll started by feillyne with 6,608 votes and 96 comments. Browse the poll archive.

 30%

Procedurally generated (1965 votes)

 70%

Hand-made (4643 votes)

Post comment Comments  (0 - 50 of 96)
Spe¢ter
Spe¢ter Jun 15 2013, 9:33am says:

Ok, I managed to accidentally select the wrong option and hit vote.

+41 votes     reply to comment
ArkaZeen
ArkaZeen Jun 15 2013, 12:14pm replied:

I can agree.

+19 votes     reply to comment
talynmiller355
talynmiller355 Jun 16 2013, 9:52am replied:

so did i crap

+8 votes     reply to comment
Aenarion_(Jasperz0r)
Aenarion_(Jasperz0r) Jun 19 2013, 2:27pm replied:

I think most of us are guilty of this.

+9 votes     reply to comment
Lucífer
Lucífer Jun 19 2013, 11:09pm replied:

I'm sure Hand-made would still be the victor regardless.

+14 votes     reply to comment
megas
megas Jul 1 2013, 4:27am replied: Online

IMO hand made may be better for quality where Procedurally generated would be better for replayability

+14 votes     reply to comment
Alberto309
Alberto309 Jul 1 2013, 12:03pm replied:

Totally agree. I still prefer hand-made game levels because of the many much things a mapper can do with it. Also, it depends on the type of game you want to create obviously:
*cough* Minecraft with hand made levels *cough* (Whaaat?? :O) :P

+9 votes     reply to comment
Darth_Weasel
Darth_Weasel Jul 8 2013, 10:57am replied:

technically we all hand make our own minecraft levels

+4 votes     reply to comment
stoopdapoop
stoopdapoop Jul 8 2013, 8:51pm replied:

we had a hand, but we had absolutely no control.

Creating a Minecraft world using a seed value is about as liberating carving a wooden statue with a wood chipper.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Darth_Weasel
Darth_Weasel Jul 10 2013, 12:46pm replied:

a perfect analogy. although if you factor in creative mode technically you could fashion your own map completely handmade.

+1 vote     reply to comment
ManiaGuy
ManiaGuy Jul 13 2013, 3:01pm replied:

That's not the issue. Even if it was the "winner", the survey would still say that x amount of people want generated levels, even though that's not true.

Edit: For some reason, my comment is a reply to Jasper, it was intended to be a reply to Lucifer.

+2 votes     reply to comment
aNewHope
aNewHope Jun 26 2013, 4:22pm replied:

It happens...

+3 votes     reply to comment
teslaband
teslaband Jul 16 2013, 10:56pm replied:

You and the other 29% bro

+1 vote     reply to comment
Spe¢ter
Spe¢ter Jul 17 2013, 5:51pm replied:

I VOTED FOR PROCEDURALLY GENERATED

Well, I WANTED to vote for it.

+1 vote     reply to comment
FrikysKiller
FrikysKiller Jun 15 2013, 9:35am says:

In most cases, hand-made, it has more personality.

+60 votes     reply to comment
TheJP3372
TheJP3372 Jun 16 2013, 11:42pm replied:

I think this really depends on the game. Hand crafted levels are generally more detailed and beautiful. Procedural generated levels are less varied on the art side but are great for dungeon crawlers due to randomisation. So it really depends. But due to my experiences with Stalker Misery, I am leaning more to the hand made side.

+26 votes     reply to comment
Zombiestubble
Zombiestubble Jun 17 2013, 12:32am replied:

If someone made hand-made tiles that could form to each other when randomized on a world scale...

The best game world ever.

+10 votes     reply to comment
why_me
why_me Jun 17 2013, 3:42pm replied:

Some games make buildings then generate them around randomly in a game, so it can be kind of a mix between the two. Procedurally generated is the best for open world games cause it allows for a much larger playing field and almost endless amounts to explore (Though you might get bored after a while)

+9 votes     reply to comment
MarkBlack
MarkBlack Jun 24 2013, 8:53am replied:

Yes, Skyrim did something like that, but even Skyrim started getting repetitive after a while of secondary missions

+4 votes     reply to comment
DoubleQuarterPounder
DoubleQuarterPounder Jul 7 2013, 7:50pm replied:

Warframe did something like that

+1 vote     reply to comment
Forsete
Forsete Jun 24 2013, 1:25pm replied:

Yeah, exactly my thoughts as well.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Quagrunner
Quagrunner Jun 28 2013, 11:48am replied:

However, they can end up being predictable.

+2 votes     reply to comment
BioDestroyer
BioDestroyer Jun 15 2013, 10:40am says:

I like Hand-made levels for the same reason as FrikysKiller.

+8 votes     reply to comment
ShotgunSurgeon
ShotgunSurgeon Jun 15 2013, 11:01am says:

Given my choice of games (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.), hand made.

+19 votes     reply to comment
drakonboy1
drakonboy1 Sep 8 2013, 12:39am replied:

You are my hero mate, stalker all the way

+1 vote     reply to comment
ShotgunSurgeon
ShotgunSurgeon Sep 8 2013, 12:48am replied:

Thanks, and don't forget to shoot Duty in their fat ******* face. Smug bastards.

+1 vote     reply to comment
ComradeWinston
ComradeWinston Jun 15 2013, 11:06am says:

How can a generated level even be compared to what a game developer could make? Unless you send the level designing AI to some sort of art school the developer will almost always make a better level.

+18 votes     reply to comment
R3B3LCAUSE
R3B3LCAUSE Jun 19 2013, 2:24am replied:

No one is talking about AI. procedural generation is used in games like Minecraft. It's algorithms that generate random terrain, not an AI

+6 votes     reply to comment
ComradeWinston
ComradeWinston Jun 20 2013, 11:05am buried:

(buried)

I'm sure procedural generation is just magic then and has nothing to do with an artificial intelligence of some description.

-5 votes     reply to comment
spencerdean94
spencerdean94 Jun 22 2013, 4:42pm replied:

It has nothing to do with AI, it's made with heavy coding.

+6 votes     reply to comment
ManiaGuy
ManiaGuy Jul 13 2013, 3:49pm replied:

Actually, in its own way, it is AI. You're giving the computer a specific and carefully made algorithm to follow, which is pretty much its behavior. It's artificial(manmade) intelligence(application of skills/knowledge). AI =/= NPC.

+5 votes     reply to comment
Metalspy
Metalspy Jun 15 2013, 11:28am says:

It depends on the game really. I wouldn't want my roguelikes to be handmade because it would be the same game every run. With (randomly) procedural generation every run is different and full of surprises! However is a game is all about exploration it's usually better to have hand-made levels, because a good level designer can make a location tell it's story by just the level design. A level generator can't, obviously.

+29 votes     reply to comment
FJS
FJS Jun 15 2013, 12:09pm replied:

This exactly!

+6 votes     reply to comment
Dragonlord
Dragonlord Jun 15 2013, 12:38pm replied:

The only problem is that nowadays many artists over-artsy their levels believing it "tells a story" where in the end it's just an overcluttered place which is uninteresting and looks highly fabricated you can't relate to to begin with. Well made levels don't feel "fabricated" (aka hand made). There's though little levels falling into that category today unfortunately.

Otherwise as you said, it depends on the game. Best is a mix of the two to have the hand-made level but randomize certain stuff in it to contain some surprises. That said... if the game "is" actually worth it enough to play it a second time (another something many games nowadays fail at).

+11 votes     reply to comment
Zombiestubble
Zombiestubble Jun 17 2013, 2:52am replied:

Tiles. The success lies in tiles. Tiles for everything, like clutter, NPCs, geological formations, everything.

Take for example SimCity (not the new one, God forbid). To build cities, you place blocks and tiles. However, you won't put a skyscraper in a rural area, so the game would automatically cancel that operation out. But in a farm can go a barn, a homestead, a garage, or pond. All of these are designed to have multiple "models" (maybe like 3 or something), and are hand-made. Thus, the artist gets to put creativity into tiles. By restricting the amount of tiles in a space, like a barn and a pond out of the original 4, 24 available options can be created. Thus, during a playthough, it could be one of 24 possible locations. Now if someone did this at a world level, a randomly generated world could work well with artistic intent.

For example, the world is 30 "cells" by 30 "cells". In each cell can go 4 tiles. So that's 120 tiles by 120 tiles, creating a total of 14400 tiles that are randomly generated. However, blocks of cells can make up a geological formation, like a mountain, where "mountain tiles" can be placed. Another would be a desert, a swamp, and so on. Each Cell would have quests relating to similar cells, or cells nearby. Seeds like the ones used in minecraft could create presets to play on, if you want to experience the same things as other people.

Scale the player however you want, but you have a fuckton of environment.

TL;DR: Basically make a game where tiles are handmade, and then randomly generated by the world.

Edit: Holy ****, that's a long post.

+10 votes     reply to comment
SILENTrampancy
SILENTrampancy Jun 20 2013, 3:39am replied:

This method has my endorsement.

This is basically putting the effort into a handmade game, then using procedural generation to effectively stretch out that effort into more world space.

You don't get 'infinite', but you can do a lot more and not have to skimp on style, artful design or atmosphere, a few of the key things a game needs to really draw you in.

The art side of this comes in creating a rule set for what renders in each tile and however many subtiles there are. For instance, you can't have tree's popping up above the treeline or snow on a tropical beach, to name a few extreme instances.

Once you set up rules, you can set what assets fit into these rules and assign the chances of them spawning in a given tile. This can be done to get a base game world started for even static open world games, such as skyrim. Start a randomly generate world, then go through and basically impose artistic design on the results, kinda like how some artists do a random squiggle on the paper to spark an idea.

tl;dr, basically agree with you, wished to elaborate and add my own take on it.

+7 votes     reply to comment
Alberto309
Alberto309 Jul 1 2013, 12:14pm replied:

"Nosferatu: The Wrath of Malachi" can be a good example IMHO. Hand-made levels with randomized enemies, items, weapons and ammo spawns every time you load or replay the game:
"Oh, there's a werewolf behind that door on the left that killed me! Ok I'll load my last save and I try to kill him!" *Opens the door* *There's a ghost insted of a werewolf, and it's on the right instead of on the left* - "WTF??? D:".

+1 vote     reply to comment
Sanguinius
Sanguinius Jun 16 2013, 12:46pm replied:

I agree with Metalspy 100%.

+3 votes     reply to comment
chrisc44890
chrisc44890 Jun 22 2013, 1:04pm replied:

Proteus tells a pretty good story about someone who is abandoned on an island and is procedurally generated

+1 vote     reply to comment
RighteousFighter
RighteousFighter Jun 15 2013, 1:24pm says:

As a scenario designer for Empire Earth, I love hand made scenarios.

+5 votes     reply to comment
mrl515
mrl515 Jun 19 2013, 11:14pm replied:

All I had to read was Empire Earth and +1 haha

+1 vote     reply to comment
skullkan6
skullkan6 Jun 15 2013, 4:17pm says:

Depends on the game-type. I generally prefer hand-made, but if the genre is right in that unpredictability helps with the experience (dungeon crawlers, certain horror titles and the game Reciever) procedural generation can do wonders.

+10 votes     reply to comment
Emiya-Archer
Emiya-Archer Jun 16 2013, 3:53am replied:

This...

+4 votes     reply to comment
EddLion
EddLion Jun 16 2013, 9:17am replied:

Preach, brother.

Even though I prefer hand-made over procedurally generated.

+4 votes     reply to comment
l0p
l0p Jun 15 2013, 10:48pm says:

Handmade is more carefully put together where with generated it can be full of bugs and not that well made so handmade is best :D

+3 votes     reply to comment
Santicol
Santicol Jul 15 2013, 10:14pm replied:

But procedurally generated games allow more replay value.

+1 vote     reply to comment
MattyG
MattyG Jun 16 2013, 6:27am says:

I would love to see more modern games use procedurally generated game worlds, as it theoretically allows infinite gameplay, provided it's good enough to stop the player from being bored to begin with.

Minecraft had the right idea but falls short on actual adventure and RPG mechanics, and I hope Cube World doesn't turn into vaporware.

+6 votes     reply to comment
TheNodCommander
TheNodCommander Jun 18 2013, 6:11am replied:

I must actually say that I really enjoyed Minecraft, up to but not including the beta-patch 1.8 which implemented all the RPG elements. I prefered it to be very simple and let the players stand for all the creativity.

+4 votes     reply to comment
MattyG
MattyG Jun 21 2013, 1:52am replied:

To me, pre-1.8 Beta felt like glorified Lego; not for everyone.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Genghis91
Genghis91 Jun 16 2013, 7:06am says:

Depends on the game, but probably hand made.

+5 votes     reply to comment
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