Original 3: Discussion Thread - Xenoforce Reborn mod for C&C3: Tiberium Wars

Ok I came back home finnaly and DL this. So far this is what I found:

1. GDI MLRS can fire at air units, but the missiles cannot hit their targets. They just dissappear instead of impacting on the target most of the time. I would assume it is their "random chance to miss" code in effect, but they are missing too much if that is the case.

2. GDI Grand Cannons are kind of OP for their price, reduce damage or raise price on this turret.

3. Firehawk MOABs are waaaay OP. Either this unit needs to be expensive to build, or the bombs need to cost money and time to build. I completely stomp the AI using these, and in very little numbers, even if they have AA defense.

4. Titan Tanks seem kind of weak for their price. I am not 100% sure on this, maybe I have been getting nailed by lots of anti tank weapons but they seem to die fast against almost everything...

5. Nod Laser Turrets do a bit too much damage, I watched 8 turrets shred a mammoth in just a few seconds, seems kind of much...

6. Obelisk needs more AA range, it is almost pointless to have AA capability if it can only hit 30 ft above and away from it's head.

7. I am on the fence about the Inquisition's Avatar damage, seems to be effective in some cases but OP on others, might be a damage vs armor type thing in my view.

8. Nod power plants suck without the turbine upgrade now. Base defense just eats your power allive untill you get the tech structure up. maybe give a small boost to un upgraded power plants?

9. Nod Templars need to not rush forward when they start their attack, they keep running almost point blank in front of their targets to shoot and throw grenades.

10. Scrin Storm Riders are extremly OP. I don't know what you guys were thinking when you gave them Tripod guns that insta kill infantry. Scrin players and AI can easily rush someone using Stormriders and kill somone really fast. Because of their buffed shields they take little damage from rocket infantry and light vehicles with rockets. This makes them the rushing steamroller unit with wings, this needs major balancing.

11. Scrin Seekers are also OP. Giving them a single shot Devastator Warship gun is just cruel. As said above about the Storm Riders, this makes these units extremely easy to rush and destroy your base in seconds.This needs balancing.

12. Scrin Motherships have very small timers to deploy, I spammed about a dozen of them and murdered the AI within minutes.

EDIT: Here is more:

13. Nod Templar's Avatar Stealth tech does not work, it will take the 600 credits away, but no upgrade animation happens. Also appears that the information displayed on this unit's "Commandeer Technology" ability is inaccurate.

14. The Inquisition's Flame Tank is stealthed, on the info page in game, it does not state that it stealths.

15. The Sisterhood beam Cannon cannot force fire the ground with any mode of fire.

16. Purchasing the Confessor upgrade via Nod Temple causes all Nod Templar to disappear from the map.

17. Sisterhood AI is a bit skiddish when attempting to C4 a building, they do not have a C4 icon that shows you that this is what they will do to an enemy walker or structure like they normaly do. That indicates to me that they aren't supposed to do that.

18. The Obelisk System Control power spawns Loyalist squads after they self destruct. I am not sure if this was intended, but that is what happens.

19. GDI faction has missing tooltips (still) on upgrades: Railgun Accelerator, Composite Armor, and Predator Missiles. Along with Juggernaught Railgun Upgrade.

20. Orca Strike support power should be renamed since Firehawks are deployed instead of Orcas.

21. GDI A15 Assault Orca only has 3 missiles when the info pages state that they have 6.

22. GDI S15 Strike Orcas are very weak all around, a nerf is recommended for this unit.

23. GDI G15 Gunship Orcas need a slghtly larger clip size to be more effective in the battlefield. They also need to reload the current clip if they are idle for more than 10 seconds.

24. Scrin PACs cannot force fire on ground

25. Scrin Devastator Warships and PACs have a weak range for Blink Packs, doubling the range would be more effective for them.

26. There are alot of typos and punctuation errors in the newly written info pages.

Edited by: Valherran

I'll try to answer your comments in their given order.

1. That is a mistake on my part, MRLS is not supposed to hit air.

2. Grand Cannon? You mean the Guardian Cannons? I will look at their cost/value again, but I think they are close to where they should be.

3. I plan on nerfing the MOAB a bit on the next release (later this week). They are powerful, but they are supposed to be.

4. Titan Tanks again are exactly where they need to be. Early game they are stronger than Preditor Tanks, and late game once the Preditor has all of their upgrades the Titan has greater range making it a great secondary backup tank. They are not ment to replace Preditors, but to compliment them.

5. 8 laser turrets attacking a single mammoth, I expect no less from them. A fully defended NOD base should be a pain to hit and you really need to use ordinance to destroy them not just roll in with a single tank and expect it to whoop ass. I will glance at it though and make sure it's where I wanted it.

6. The Obelisk doesn't need more AA range. The reason it seems like they have a short range is by the time air units get within range they have to charge up to fire, so by the time they fire the unit is right on top of the Obelisk. The Obelisk is a great defensive weapon but it's ment to be used with other NOD defenses not as it's own defense.

7. I need a better example. The Avatar is NOD's Ultimate unit and it does a great job I think. Lower level units are going to get destroyed against it, and higher level units will be on par with it. Compairing a NOD Avatar vrs a GDI Mammoth however, and the Mammoth will win.

8. I did not change the NOD powerplant at all. If you say they suck now compaired to before then what your saying is that they sucked before. I'm sorry if you have power issues with all of your defenses, but that's just the way it is. As I did not change the ammount of power that the NOD defenses use either, it must just be a case of you using more defenses than before. I know I do (got to love those stealth generators giving you cash).

9. Thats just part of the Templars, they are getting into range to use their gernades I believe. I will look at it and see if there is anything I can do.

10. The next version of the mod that will be out later this week is designed to spicificly address the Scrin. The Stormrider now is equipped with 3 plasma guns instead of the lance class weapon.

11. I didn't give the Seeker tank the Scrin Devistator Warhead attack. I'm not sure what your talking about, Seekers use plasma missiles.

12. Mothership timers have been doubled in the next release, I found that they were too low too.
13. I will look at the discription, but it does not give you stealth tech. It gives you the missile pod from the Stealth Tank allowing you to fire missiles at air units for better anti-air defenses.

14. I will fix the discription, yes the flame tank is stealthed.

15. I didn't actually change anything with the weapon of the Beam Cannon, if it can't force fire I don't know. All I did was rename it and add the "on death" code. If it can't force fire then I'm not sure what to tell you, was it able to before?

16. This upgrade is getting removed, I just forgot to do it. I saw that too and I'm not able to explain why.

17. I've not had that issue. It shows up properly for me.

18. Thats not intentional. I will look at it and see if it's easy to remove.

19. Thanks, I didn't catch that. I will fix it.

20. Agreed, and I'm working on modifying the power as well.

21. GDI A15 Orca fires 2 missiles for each of it's shots. 3 shots, 2 missiles a shot, thats 6 missiles. The A15 is going to be losing it's vulcan cannon as I see it messing with the Orca all the time when it comes time for the Orca to go back and reload.

22. The Strike Orca is getting a complete redesign, I'm going to make them have 2 heavy machine guns instead of the missiles and modify their cost as well.

23. I've never been able to figure out how to get a unit to reload when idle. As for the clip size, I've never noticed them being ineffective myself, I find them useful and I see the AI use them all the time for attacking the side of enemy bases.

24. Again, I can so I don't know why yours can't.

25. Their range is 750, thats pretty good. It's not ment to teleport the unit across the entire map, it's to help them get into position or escape quickly. As for the PAC, it doesn't have the blink pack.

26. Thats my fault.

I would suggest Val that you delete your replay folder, delete the MOD, and then reinstall the MOD and see if that doesn't fix any of the issues your getting. I know that others have had other issues like the Liquid Tib Bomb crashing their game and such and doing this fixed the issue.

Edited by: azuza001

azuza001 wrote: I'll try to answer your comments in their given order.

5. 8 laser turrets attacking a single mammoth, I expect no less from them. A fully defended NOD base should be a pain to hit and you really need to use ordinance to destroy them not just roll in with a single tank and expect it to whoop ass. I will glance at it though and make sure it's where I wanted it.

6. The Obelisk doesn't need more AA range. The reason it seems like they have a short range is by the time air units get within range they have to charge up to fire, so by the time they fire the unit is right on top of the Obelisk. The Obelisk is a great defensive weapon but it's ment to be used with other NOD defenses not as it's own defense.

7. I need a better example. The Avatar is NOD's Ultimate unit and it does a great job I think. Lower level units are going to get destroyed against it, and higher level units will be on par with it. Compairing a NOD Avatar vrs a GDI Mammoth however, and the Mammoth will win.

8. I did not change the NOD powerplant at all. If you say they suck now compaired to before then what your saying is that they sucked before. I'm sorry if you have power issues with all of your defenses, but that's just the way it is. As I did not change the ammount of power that the NOD defenses use either, it must just be a case of you using more defenses than before. I know I do (got to love those stealth generators giving you cash).

11. I didn't give the Seeker tank the Scrin Devistator Warhead attack. I'm not sure what your talking about, Seekers use plasma missiles.

15. I didn't actually change anything with the weapon of the Beam Cannon, if it can't force fire I don't know. All I did was rename it and add the "on death" code. If it can't force fire then I'm not sure what to tell you, was it able to before?

17. I've not had that issue. It shows up properly for me.

21. GDI A15 Orca fires 2 missiles for each of it's shots. 3 shots, 2 missiles a shot, thats 6 missiles. The A15 is going to be losing it's vulcan cannon as I see it messing with the Orca all the time when it comes time for the Orca to go back and reload.

23. I've never been able to figure out how to get a unit to reload when idle. As for the clip size, I've never noticed them being ineffective myself, I find them useful and I see the AI use them all the time for attacking the side of enemy bases.

24. Again, I can so I don't know why yours can't.

25. Their range is 750, thats pretty good. It's not ment to teleport the unit across the entire map, it's to help them get into position or escape quickly. As for the PAC, it doesn't have the blink pack.

I would suggest Val that you delete your replay folder, delete the MOD, and then reinstall the MOD and see if that doesn't fix any of the issues your getting. I know that others have had other issues like the Liquid Tib Bomb crashing their game and such and doing this fixed the issue.

@5. If they were meant to be that powerful then ok, but it does seem a bit much, especialy against a Mammoth. BTW when I posted these I was on that faction.

@6. That long charge is why I say it should be increased, or give it a sperate charge for AA use. As it stands the laser turrets completely outclass the Obelisk. I know the Laser Turrets don't fire at air units, but that's what the SAM turrets are for.

@7. Alright I will leave it alone then.

@8. I did not know those generators gave you cash, thanks for the tip lol. Nod powerplants have always been an issue in the standard game that EA just refuses to fix. It always seems stupid that the power plants gave like 10 power, and then they get 20 extra from the turbine upgrade. The power it takes to run the same amount of stuff in a base as another faction results in a ridiculous clutter of power plants up untill you get the upgrade. If it were 15 and 15, or 20 and 10, that would be so much better for them. As GDI and Scrin, I never have a power issue, only Nod.

@11. It fires, sounds, and damages just like the original Devastator Warship, which is insanely powerful for the price they are. They kill infantry damn near instantly. They mutilate buildings and turrets at a VERY fast rate. Plus they do alot of damage to units bigger than it. So I hope you can see as to why I would address this...

@15. I will try the replay deletion and re-installation of the MOD. It happened to me again this morning, something causes it to do this, just can't find what. before it did fire like it was supposed, now it "randomely" doesn't want to.

@17. I will try the replay deletion and re-installation of the MOD. Currently they would just inch closer and closer to the building, but not run at it head on to blow it up. It made me think that were trying to decide whether to fire at it with the gun or C4 it as they were approaching the building.

@21. Yeah I noticed that too, those missiles must be really close together because it looks like 1 missile when it fires.

@23. If the clip size is alright to you then I will leave it alone, just would seem better to me if it had 4 extra shots. Reloading while Idle isneeded though, I hope you can find a way to code that in...

@24. I will try the replay deletion and re-installation of the MOD

@25. If it is ok then it is ok, just seemed kind of short for a starship. The PAC part was a bad edit on me, I didn't see that lol.

6. Again, it's ment to be an additional bonus that it can hit air, but attacking air targets is not it's main use. Also, while fast moving air targets will not get hit very quickly by the Obelisk, stationary ones like the PAC and Gunship Orca will.

8. I'll look at the numbers on what the Scrin, GDI, and NOD power plants generate before and after upgrades and make any needed changes, but again I don't really think it's going to be what you want.

11. I'm looking at every scrin unit as I write this and am going to make sure that they work in their given roll on the battlefield. 2 units I've struggled to find a good role for are the Seekers and the Gunwalkers. Expect changes.

let me know if you have any other concerns. Scrin should be better once I get the next version done (again hoping to have it done on Friday, no promises)

No matter how many times I everything and reinstall this mod, I've been hitting the same two issues:

1. GDI AA guns do jack diddily against air units. They occasionally spit out an animation for a couple rounds, but I had a Venom being shot at by 10 AA guns for a good 15 minutes while I made soup before finishing off a crippled AI opponent.

2. When I play Nod, it's random whether I'll get all the new support powers and only the avatars as new units, or I can have none of the new support powers, but get some heavily modified MCV with way too many weapons on board.

I haven't seen those 2 occurences yet, I will have a look myself to see if I get what you get.

Just play against an Easy GDI and fly some units around their AA guns. The Nod one seems to be modified MCV the first time I play, then it's gone every game after that.

azuza001@hotmail.com has a replay in the mail you need to see.

Also I saw that the Scorpion Bikes that spawn when a Scorpion Tank dies has a missing tooltip as well, it is also in that replay.

Edited by: Valherran

Which issues are in that replay? I keep forgetting to play against GDI to get one of their AA guns not working...

@NereidAlbel: It was a ridiculous amount of Loyalists spawning.

Also, I sent another Replay. This one is about the GDI AA Guns, NereidAlbel is right about them. What I also noticed about them is that they were firing at land units as well with the same messed up firing animation (occasional burst fire with no bullets).

Other thing I saw was, that the Templar's Avatar was firing Obelisk lasers from the Flame Thrower component at only infantry. It uses the flame thrower on only the buildings (I think), no idea if that was intentional, but that seemed rather odd to me.

Plus the bullet animation for the Original GDI APCs is missing. The AI built a horde of them in a previous match, and possibly in that replay, and my air units were taking damage, but nothing was hitting them.

Finnaly, as you mentioned earlier, you said that the Stealth Generators generated currency when built. Well, they do not generate currency in the version that I have. What DOES generate currency however is the HUBs for the Nod's turrets. They generate 20 credits every 10 seconds. Kind of odd to have those generate money...

GDI AA Turrets when they get nerfed, also need a heavy resistance to the Armageddon Bombers. Those damn things come and go so fast that it is almost impossible to shoot it down before it releases it's payload. 1 Vapour bomb completely wipes out AA defense in 1-2 hits. The AI loves spamming them so it might as well be instant kill for those damn things. As it stands GDI has very poor AA capability, mainly due to the AA turrets not working.

Lastly, remove the EMP effect from all sonic weapons, that shit is so abuseable. I murdered an AI just having a few of those new APCs stun locking everything in my way. Same goes for the Sonic Turrets, any ground units that came within range were completely screwed.

I am starting to wonder if you uploaded the wrong version of this MOD to the site. There are lots of broken things in here...

Edited by: Valherran

Haha, you should see what happens if I keep destroying bridges on a limited accessibility map against Scrin...When I finally provoked their wrath, I lost a con. yard in roughly half a second to their godlike swarm of PAC's. $100,000 credits worth of air force destroyed by a single EMP...

Oh, and the Stealth Generators do create income, but they're on a longer delay to generate a few hundred credits at a time.

val - the gdi aa guns are confirmed bugged, will be fixed soon. the gdi apc not showing the tracer i have noticed before but i cant figure out why sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. the sonic weapons i agree need modifying but i havent decided how yet. the avatar isnt supposed to work that way your right, i will look at the code. i am still not sure at what is spawning those loyalists in the corner of the map.

ner - the weird mcv was from a previous version of the mod, not sure why you would be getting it to appear when it is not in the game.

Don't know, but I deleted every file involving Xenoforce and did a fresh install, then my first game gets the MCV. That thing would be obscenely overpowered if it weren't so squishy.

I also recommend adding a hefty reload timer to the MOAB and the Armageddon Bomber, it will prevent total spammage of this bomb from both players and AI.

MOAB reload timer should be at LEAST double the timer for carpet bombing. Just does way too much damage vs rate of fire, even on huge maps.

IKR? I will wait for the next version to be released, there are too many flaws with this version that just irritate me severly.

Well you don't have long to wait, I will be uploading the version 1.1 Release Canidate to xenoforce.blogspot.com's mediafire account within the hour. Things that I still know about but havn't fixed for the next version would be Grammer/Spelling errors on discriptions (honestly, I didn't catch them when I wrote it so I must think it's spelled right. I need help on this one) and those stupid loyalists that spawn (I still have no idea why they do it / whats causing them).Everything else should be good on what you've suggested/what I've mentioned I'm changing. I'll post the link up soon!

You can probably get away with copy/pasting stuff into Word and running Spell Check for most of the spelling/grammar stuff. What map/factions were having the Loyalist spawns? I haven't noticed that one yet.

All of them appear to be doing it. There is SOME NOD power that is causing loyalists to spawn in the bottom left corner of every map when the power go's off, I just can't figure out what's causing it.

Did that 1st replay of that help any? I used barely anything during that match, and it spawned a ton of them. i figured my lack of useage on things would lower the list of suspects.

Hmm, I'm going to play against an Easy enemy as Nod and start using powers one at a time until I see Loyalists spawning. Were they friendly or enemy Loyalists?

3 things:

1. The blue X and seeing the base starting points marked on the radar for maps is kind of annoying, but also kinda nice for aiming a super weapon.

2. Still seeing reversed descriptions for the nuke bombers and liquid tiberium bomb.

3. It's the Decoy power spawning Loyalists. It's creating 8 Loyalists per use.

I can confirm it's the decoy power, change it up!

Heh, did you remove the Confessor upgrade from the Secret Shrine? Just noticed that's missing.

It was supposed to be removed but he forgot, and needed to be removed because when you purchase the upgrade, all of the Templars on the map disappeared.

Heh, I never noticed my Templars disappearing. Then again, mine were always garrisoned/in transports by the time I got the upgrade.