The Xenoforce Reborn mod takes the classic Xenoforce mod from CNC Generals and re-invisions it on the CNC3 engine with new units and new designs. The new armies that are currently scheduled to be in the mod are the Earth Federation, ZEON, the Invid, and the Earth Robotech Defense Force. We also have heavily modified the original CNC3 armies, giving the GDI, NOD, and Scrin a much more dynamic gameplay experience. This mod is NOT FOR PROFIT and NON-commercial based.

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Original 3: Discussion (Mods : Xenoforce Reborn : Forum : Xenoforce General Descussion : Original 3: Discussion) Locked
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Jun 24 2011 Anchor

It wasn't the decoy power doing it (though the decoy power DID activate the bug). There were a few powers that caused it to happen. Powers that are not even remotly coded the same and that did not even have anything to do with the loyalist. I replaced the edited loyalist squad / unit code with the original code and it suddenly worked just fine. SO, it's the loyalist code thats causing the bug when other powers go off. I have no idea WHY it was happening, but at least I know now what I need to change to fix it. Live and learn right? :p

And I did remove the confessor upgrade, for the reasons that Val mentioned.

I also need to fix the discription on the Tib expanders. Now if you purchase the T1 upgrade instead of getting a power that drops a tib field anywhere on the map in the form of the tiberium expander building it causes tiberium accelerators to spawn new tiberium fields every 90 seconds. This now means that the Scrin get a nice boost in their economy (a new field every 90 seconds plus the original field grows faster) without having 2 powers that really just duplicated the same end effect in a different way (blue fields and green fields placed anywhere you want).

Finally, all powers for Scrin are now activated from the Stasis Chamber (which I'm going to rename to something else that better describes the buildings new use).

On a side note, if you play vrs Scrin on Medium they seem to have no issue using powers (they really REALLY have no issue using powers) but on Hard I've not seen them use any powers at all. Is this just me or have you guys noticed this?

Jun 25 2011 Anchor

I noticed the lack of power useage when you mentioned it just now, same with Nod, the hard Nod AI doesn't use theirs much either.

Jun 25 2011 Anchor

Which strategy are you guys setting the AI on? Xenoforce or one of the default settings?

Ok, I've noticed that GDI will use Shockwave Artillery and Nod will use their EMP every cooldown, but those are the only powers I saw in a game against all 3 factions. I will say the map I've been playing on is kinda fun for this mod, though.

Ok, just played a rather long match where Nod decided to start dropping their SAM drops and hidden explosives at the same time, as well as GDI calling in the bombers. The AI is just taking a while to start using their powers on hard is all.

Jun 25 2011 Anchor

i normally use the xenoforce one. my problem is i have seen the hard ai build the rift generator for scrin and not fire it. the medium ai does, but sometimes the hard just doesnt do it for some reason. other non xenoforce ai for scrin do not use the upgrade system so they dont have access to the powers.

i need to see if i can somehow get the other ais to at least build the upgrades (dont really care if they understand what they are building).

Jun 25 2011 Anchor

You could just set the triggers to always go the same upgrade path? You know, turtle always maxes the defense stuff etc.

Oh, had you realized you can't set Xenoforce AI on players 5-8?

Jun 25 2011 Anchor

I will update this list as I go:

1. The GDI AA guns are still glitched, they only do burst fires against the air units, and are pretty much useless again.

2. Nod Sisterhood need to have their Immune To Crushing removed, they are basicaly super Disintigrators and can easily overrun anything.

3. Nod AI totaly fkin cheats on any difficulty setting when they do decide to use their powers. They are able to spawn Obelisks and SAMs in the back of my base even though they cannot see back there. If you can find a way to nerf this, do it, it is game breaking.

Jun 25 2011 Anchor

Val -

1. The GDI AA guns are going to only fire bursts. They have been programed that way. Thats a small disadvantage to me as I've switched it from doing 40 gun damage per round to 100 cannon damage and it now can hit both ground and air targets. Keep in mind that most air armor sets gun percentages to only receving anywhere from 10 to 20% of the actual guns strength so a gun that old AA gun did 4 to 8 damage per round is now doing 70 to 100 damage. It should be more effective now even with the burst setup.

2. Nod sisterhood, I didn't realize that they were immune to crushing I will look at it.

3. There is no way possible to stop the AI from cheating in that way. It's a sad fact that the AI always knows where you are and what your doing and can always see. Thats one of the reasons I set the timer to require to charge before using it instead of being ready right from the beginning, to try and help lessen that kind of issue.

Ner - I had no idea about that, and I do not have a good reason as to why that would be. Thats very interesting, is it on all maps that that happens or only certain ones? In any event, I will look at the game and try to find a reason why that would be.

Anything else about this guys? Or do you think it's ready for uploading to MOD DB as a 1.1?

Jun 25 2011 Anchor

Aside from the players 5-8 not being able to be Xenoforce AI and all the stock maps having that blue X in the top left corner of the radar and showing the ovals for base locations, this seems like it's just a few minor bug fixes and a final run through Spell Check from release.

Jun 26 2011 Anchor

I don't know whats going on in your version of the mod Ner but I just posted up a pic. On my version all 8 players on all 8 player maps can pick the xenoforce ai type. I have fixed the sisterhood issue (turned out the commando was still set to crushable lvl 3 instead of 0 like all other infantry) and the map picture issues. Loading word up now to do a spellcheck. Then I'm going to do some playtesting using the AA defense guns and we'll see where we end up.

I just played a game on the red asteroid vrs a medium scrin. HOLY HELL.

1st Yes, your right, the AA guns still arn't there. I dropped their reload timer from 3s to 1s, hopefully this will make them more useful.

2nd THAT was a truly epic battle. Those motherships are just freaking scary, I saw 2 Iconics and a Harbinger fly in and my ground forces just started to crumble. I got lucky, managed to drop a new base and use the mammoths + firehawks I had left to kill them then held out long enough to use the Ion Cannon + Firehawk Summon to finally hit their base. I wasn't getting anywhere near that base without a massive hit first.

3rd The AI really likes to use the Phase Power and the Ion Storm at the same time, phasing their units out, causing storms all over the place, then moving their units into my base when I can't hurt them because they are phased. Yes, you can do a small SMALL bit of damage to them while phased but I was only able to destroy a PAC with 6 Firehawks in the time it took them to move 3 motherships, 4 pacs, and a nice selection of Corruptors and Devourer Tanks into position.

A very close game that had me on the edge for the entire battle. It's official. Scrin are scary when they are rolling.

Jun 26 2011 Anchor

I cannot win against Nod's airpower as GDI because of poor AA defense. Not only is the AA turret sucky, but they just lack anti air ground units. All Nod has to do is spam the vapor bomber that is impossible to shoot down. I discovered that Firehawks will NOT use their AA missiles unless you physicaly tell them to attack the air unit, Kind of irritating... Going to play some more.

Jun 26 2011 Anchor

I'm going to have to see if it's just 3rd-party maps that won't allow Xenoforce AI on players 5-8 or something (which would kinda make me sad).

Think you can do something about the mutants spawned by the LTB being marked as yours (including the "unit under attack" and "unit lost" messages), but not being able to give them orders? It's actually kind of annoying.

Also, anything that can be done about "unit lost" messages playing randomly around tiberium spawned by powers/growth accelerators?

Oooh, it's just that "Random" can't be set to Xenoforce AI. I changed my random opponends to GDI/Nod/Scrin and they could all be Xenoforce.

Sent you a replay that shows Devastators might need a slight nerf. Probably in the durability area (seriously, they just don't want to die in this one).

Also shows what happens when one Scrin AI decides to go down the offensive upgrades instead of the defensive ones...poor guys.

Jun 26 2011 Anchor

Ok this was strange, I fought against GDI this time, and some wierd stuff happened. About a quarter way through the playthrough, GDI sends that Firehawk Strike on my Power Plants. They swoop in and hit my buildings, but there is a 2 second delay in the explosions. When it finnaly went off, it was similar to the MOAB. If it IS a MOAB, it needs to be toned down, that is too powerful for a simple airstrike.

Also, I dropped a "Nuke" on their base towards the end. I noticed 3 Armageddon Bombers flew in and dropped 3 missiles, and it completely wiped the AI's base out. That is just ridiculous, Nod has 2 super powers while everyone else has one, and it's more effective than a Liquid Tiberium Bomb. IMO I do not know why everyone must have a Liquid Tiberium Bomb in their MODs, but in this MOD it should be removed if your going to have a cluster nuke. If that cluster nuke stays the way it is, then put a big timer on it to balance it out somewhat.

I played against the Scrin in another match and it was a slaughter all around. I feel that the kinetic damage from beam weapons just need to be toned down. As Nod, Shredder Turrets are a complete waste of money, Laser Turrets do the same, if not, a better job than those. Because all of Nod has mostly laser weapons in their arsenal, it makes them the most offensive based faction. The lasers shouldn't do much more than a cannon weapon, I can see railguns being the most effective, but the lasers are just over the top.

Edited by: Valherran

Jun 26 2011 Anchor

Read the tooltips on the air strike. It actually says they're MOABs =s

One should note that Scrin also has 2 superweapons, and GDI can drop an MCV anywhere on the map, with some heavy tanks as support.

At least the balance to Nod's lasers is that most of the units are incredibly squishy compared to their counterparts, and the one durable unit costs more than a superweapon to max out.

Jun 26 2011 Anchor

The MOABs in this game aren't that strong actually. Two things happened that could have made you think otherwise. Three, count em, three MOABs were dropped on a power plant at the same time. Power plants are squishy squishy IMO. As for the nuke, I've personally launched those things about ten to fifteen times overall in games, only one time did they actually get through the anti-air defenses. The bombers used to carry those nukes are also squishy squishy. As for the lasers, well they actually do less damage than cannons do ... i think. I've kind of tested it. Fired off one round from a Predator into a Mammoth. Then fired off the Scorpion Bike's laser into a Mammoth. It did less damage. Lasers just fire wickedly fast. Other than that, I can clearly see your points amidst the fog. Sorry if this sounds harsh but when you add two and two together, I hope you get four.

Jun 26 2011 Anchor

Ner and Kunai actually said what I was thinking. The only point that I will look at would be the anti-air missiles. I nerfed them when I saw a single missile system (with all 4 SAM sites) target and kill a Scrin Mothership before it could get in range. Take damage, yes I expect that, but not completly kill it without a scratch. I'll re-look at the damage output per second on the laser guns with the laser capacitor upgrade vrs the damage output on the SAM sites and make a change if needed. The Firehawk MOAB attack is just fine, I will only consider changing it if it becomes obviously overpowering/broken. The Trip-Nukes are just fine as well, yes triple nukes are mad powerful if all 3 hit the same spot at the same time. But the nukes can now be intercepted and shot down pretty easily and the splash radius of the trip nukes are any bigger than the radius of a single nuke so if you took out their entire base then they didn't have much of a base.Only thing that really REALLY concerns me is the Scrin AI stalling. I've seen it twice now, they get to a point where they are fully functional as far as the base go's and they just stall, they'll keep building units and attacking but they won't expand their base any and if you destroy a building they won't replace it. I'm not sure what causes this, and I will have to keep working on it.

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

doesn't look like the scrin ai is building the mother ship beakon, mother ships or PAC any longer. One the up side of thing the ai is fully using just about all of the attack powers and more unit abilities. Scrin air power is not to powerful with the mother ships. Gdi anti- air is just fine now that the ata-gun is fixed. Will talk about my ideas for gundam in a podcast tonight.

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

Kunaiswarm wrote: The MOABs in this game aren't that strong actually. Two things happened that could have made you think otherwise. Three, count em, three MOABs were dropped on a power plant at the same time. Power plants are squishy squishy IMO. As for the nuke, I've personally launched those things about ten to fifteen times overall in games, only one time did they actually get through the anti-air defenses. The bombers used to carry those nukes are also squishy squishy. As for the lasers, well they actually do less damage than cannons do ... i think. I've kind of tested it. Fired off one round from a Predator into a Mammoth. Then fired off the Scorpion Bike's laser into a Mammoth. It did less damage. Lasers just fire wickedly fast. Other than that, I can clearly see your points amidst the fog. Sorry if this sounds harsh but when you add two and two together, I hope you get four.

I am going to assume you saw the replay? Yes power plants are squishy, but that's not the point. The point is that they are dropping MOABs and in a quantity of 3. MOAB has a large radius of damage, and ALOT of damage. If you saw the replay (which again I assume you did since you brought up the powerplants in your comment) you will see that the airstrike that didn't hit the more expensive and tougher structures directly, were almost destroyed. That's quite a bit of power for something that has like a 2-3 min timer and costs nothing to fire and unable to shoot down to avoid.

@Ner: I only got to play 2-3 matches as Nod against the AI, so no, I have not seen the tool tip. But I was not aware that they were gonna be outfitted with MOABs, I was expecting the same thing from before.

@azuza: I was going to comment on the Scrin AI again because they seem to "not try hard" when I set them on a higher/est difficulty, they hesistate frequently.

Edited by: Valherran

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

The one thing I have noticed about the MOAB bomber run is that they are actually easier to shoot down than the old Orca strikes. They just don't fly fast enough to get past a decent defense layer (which is about a dozen SAM hubs packed into a tiny area).

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

They are? They seem the same to me, which was annoying even back then when that power was never changed.

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

Well, they're easier to shoot down for Nod and Scrin. They're just slow enough that your missiles will catch them in time for a second burst. GDI, however, needs that RoF boost before they can shoot down all 3 bombers. Best I've managed as GDI is shooting down 2/3...which means I lose the power plants, but not my refinery or tech center. In a way, those are GDI's second superweapon though. I mean, they are pretty damn good at making a hole in somebody's defensive line.

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

Valherran don’t take this the wrong way but have you ever
thought of just putting your tech center way from your power plants. I mean you already know that the moab is
going to do. So what do you keep
building the same set up? Heres another for you as well why not create more
then one tech center. I am going to assume
that in a battle a lot of the time you loose structures you would care not to.
There’s nothing wrong with that as long as you have more then one of it.

As for the fire hawk them selves well they should be
fast. We will look to see what seed they
are set to and if they are not set to the right seep then we will set them to
the speed they should be set to. They may be to fast thy may be too slow who
knows. But they is an easy fix.

As for the Liquid Tiberium Bomb I do think it needs to be
revamped a little. First thing is that after the bomb detonates random Tiberium
fields should pop up across the screen.
This would give the bomb that “oh my god what the F*** did he just do to
the map” factor. Second that think in the wake of the fall out explosion ion storms should pop up across the map
effecting everything they come in contact with. Now do you think that would put
the Liquid Tiberium Bomb on par with 3 nukes.
Besides if 3 nukes did go off in your base what are the odds you think
you would still have a base after.

If there is one big change I think we should make at this point
to the original three it is that the defenses should rank up. I can’t remember
if we were able to make that happen or not for the original there. But if possible I think each faction we put
in the came should have ranking base defenses.

Kunaiswarm we will check on the armageddon bomber. We did add more armor to it and just got rid
of the stealth. Nods air over all is
lack thereof; but do to the nature of nod thems are the breaks. I will say this
though. I think we might need to look at
putting the stealth back on the vertigo bomber and making the beam on the take
end of that equal to the avatars beam canon. I mean if you think about it the WHOLE tale
end section of the fighter bomber is a beam canon so maybe it not even enough
to ask for the fighter bomber to have the avatar beam but I think the avatar mean
is a great start.

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

Val - Unless you sent the replay to Kunai I don't see how he could have seen it, I havn't sent it to anyone. AI's always target power plants with the Firehawk Strike. Maybe he just assumed? Yea, the strike is powerful, but it's not any worse than building 7 firehawks and sending them in in my opinion, it's actually weaker as in this case all 3 must target the same structure where when you build them yes they cost cash but they are a lot more versitile.

Doug - I think the firehawks and their speed are fine. Its faster than a normal firehawk, but not overly so. As for the Liquid Tiberium Bomb I can see the bomb dropping tiberium fields I suppose, but I am heavily against it causing Ion Storms. I don't want anything that NOD does to cause Ion Storms. As for ranking up defenses again I don't want to do that. I don't think the defenses need that kind of thing. We do need to think about an alternative to how sonic weapons work though, or lower the EMP effect timer. It's too easy to use the new APC to shut down enemy units and then wipe them out. Thoughts on this issue would be welcomed.

Finally, whats wrong with the Vertigo fighter? It fires AA missiles, is fast, has a long range light laser gun for additional power, and drops cluster bombs. It's pretty effective in my book. It's not up there with the Firehawk, but it's a nice alternative.

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

Well, if you want the LTB to work as it should in the lore, it should actually detonate all tiberium on the map, THEN spawn random fields (as the fragments flying through the air after the quite violent reaction would settle down somewhere and start to grow).

Oh, and Azuza, if you watched that replay I sent you, you should see the green Scrin team have that AI stall issue. Sure they kept cranking out more PAC's, but 2 infantry and a light vehicle pretty much demolished the base when they refused to replace anything they lost.

One bug I've noticed with the Scrin is that if a structure is damaged before you use the phasing power, repairs just won't work on it for some reason.

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

I've fixed the Scrin stall issue. It had to do with me trying to get the AI to build buildings that had either the lightning tower or lightning spike on them. Once I took those off the Scrin stopped playing stupid and went to town. Now the GDI AI can't even fight them, they are just that overpowering so I am looking at what can be changed. I think the issue comes down to the Scrin being able to get to max tech so quickly (they need to build 3 buildings and can start pumping out Capitol Ships, their top unit vrs everyone else not getting to theirs much later). It should be like this, but not this quick I think. I am going to glance at the liquid tiberium bombs code one more time, maybe I'll set it up to destroy all tiberium / tiberium based units / infantry and then spawn random fields across the map. I just don't like the idea of Ion Storms at the same time, I can't put my finger on why.

Jun 27 2011 Anchor

Probably because there's already a power to spawn random ion storms, and that's purely Scrin tech anyway. Maybe Scrin techs could use a short build time (even just 10 seconds gives people a chance).

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