Ultimate Apocalypse is a mod for Dawn of War Soulstorm, which aims to create the most diverse possible unit and faction selection within the confines of the original DOW engine. We strive to create the most engaging and balanced Warhammer 40,000 game that we can, without sacrificing the fun factor. From hordes of Orks to the towering Titans, you can always find a new way to play UA. We invite all of you to join us on our Discord server to keep up with the development of the mod!
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| Inquisition Feedback - 1.84.58 | Locked | |
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| Nov 24 2015 Anchor | ||
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Patch: 1.84.58 Hello, I'm going to share some feedback about the Inquisition. I'm trying to be as honest as I can so not look at me as an Inquisition fan I won't be based into the history or wiki and I think nobody should as this is a multiplayer game. Some of the things I'll write have already been posted in the bug report but I'm not totally sure if are bugs. Let's start: + Let's begin with units that can be attached but are not commanders. I'm talking about ServoSkull, Astropath, Exorcist... These units grants very interesting bonuses and really make a difference when using them correctly, but these units have a HP of 250 or 300 (only Astropath), which I find pretty fair for Tier I, but I think that after 20-30 min, when everybody is in Tier 3-4, this HP is very low considering there are units which do that damage in one hit, this means they will die in 1-3 hits to the squad. This is a problem because they won't be cost effective anymore, thus they will fall into oblivion till the next game. + In this patch, the ServoSkull won't make invisible the attached squad like in old patches. I think this is a good change because it was unfair to have everything invisible in Tier I, you could rush easily like this in very early game. But I think, after building Grey Knight Teleporter, it can be a good idea to add a research to make invisible the ServoSkull's attached squad. + Also the ServoSkull, in its description, mentions that grants melee protection to nearby units. I have tested this and you have my word that this is true, but I feel that it is more logical to grant ranged attack protection because it also grants more sight (not range). + The Astropath only reduces enemy sight when nearby (I didnt test this) and he is a detector. About this unit I feel he should have any ability because he is a psyker. + Although what I said about this two units, I'm a little contradited about what to do with the ServoSkull and the Astropath because both are detectors, the ServoSkull grants melee protection and sight and the Astropath reduce enemy sight when nearby. + Damocles, what to do with this unit? It needs 3 vehicle cap. and apparently grants good bonuses and have interesting abilities but in which position should be placed? near Whirlwinds? first or second line? I don't really know. I do my tests after a new patch and maybe it's my fault that I don't really see how it can make a difference, can any of you tell me?
Maybe you can even choose by buying it "weapons" to personalize its bonuses, for example you can buy it the ability to heal, give range, etc. Maybe I'm all wrong and it's fine right now, but every time I play I'm not thinking in Damocles, I don't even research the schematic, and I would like to feel the same joy I feel when I buy a Whirlwind, you know? + The invisible girls with swords. Yep, I dont remember their name because I never do them because they are pretty weak although it is stated in the description that they are good against commanders, what a big lie. In my opinion they should be waaay faster, attack faster and resistant to ranged damage. On the other hand, they could be like they are but free of cap, limit of 4 or no limit but 1 cap. + I feel that the general ability cooldown should be less once built the Grey Knight Teleporter, for example the Regroup of the Acolytes or the ability of the Scholars because it is way faster to kill them and rebuild them than wait the cooldown. + Tier 5, this is something new of this patch series (1.84), but I really don't feel why Inquisition should tier up to 5, yes, the Grand Maester and yes, Exterminatus, but go there only for this two super expensive things? I mean, the other races (I didn't check all) have access to the last resource research (the number 5) and Inquisition gets stuck in resource research 2 after building the Vehicle Center, we all know that Inquisition can do a "make it rain" with all the resources they have at almost any time, but the Necrons and Tyranids can double that because they have that level 5 resource level. I think Inquisition should be able to research level 3 at least in Tier 5. Another option instead of letting the level 3 research is to let you to do another research in the Urban Territories. + I really dont know why you need to have in field Ordo Malleus Supreme Lord and the Inquisitor to be able to buy some researches from the Librarium and to use the abilities of the Astra Telepathica. + Some buildings like Deployment Bunker that can deepstrike units if gathered inside, doesn't have a button to deploy the units out the building without being deepstriked (like the Rhino tank, for example), this means, if by accident some unit go inside the building, you will have to wait till you can deepstrike it. + Why Grey Knight Paladins needs 8 of cap?. I know how strong they are but I feel that's insane. They are awesome because of the shields, after that they die like Terminators. + Maybe I remember it wrong but Hellfire Dreadnought used to have a flamethrower in a close range in old patches, doesn't it? because right now it doesn't have it. Maybe it's my bad that for me makes sense it does (or used to) because of the name, but it is true that the wiki doesn't mention it. + Right now you cannot upgrade the global turrets (damage, armor and range) from the deepstriked turrets when you could do it in old patches from a commander-menu-like when you have selected a deepstriked turret. This means that you can only do turret researches from a standard turret. + Even though in this patch it was fixed the teleportation delay of Grey Knight units, the delay is still the same in Grey Knight Paladins and the Chaplain (in terminator armor). + Bodyguards get grenades without research just building the Deployment Bunker. I don't know if intended. + Which of the choosable Dedicated Mind do you usually choose for the Inquisitor? I always choose Mage Sorceror because it gives a higher range to the spells and supposedly immunity to moral damage, I say "supposedly" because in a test, throwing him into Chaos fog, I'm seen him loosing moral. The other Dedicated Mind I see interesting is Psychic Aid to get the Land Raider, the description also says that there's a small chance for the Inquisitor to become invulnerable and regain moral but I havent tested this. The thing is that I find quite expensive the Inquisitor's Land Raider: 440req 1200pow, the good thing is that it doesn't cost relic points but I think this Land Raider should be the cheapest (or free), considering you made a choice in Dedicated Mind and it wasnt free (and also this choice needs more commander levels to be available), and also considering it has pretty expensive upgrades. + Why should I choose any Land Raider instead of a Dreadknight? Only because of the shield and abilities I always choose a Dreadknight, but maybe I'm wrong, what do you think? (I also did it before the buffs). And then, when I can, I get a Vengeance Titan, not a single relic Land Raider.
+ Stormraven Fury, do any of you use this unit? Its description says that is good against everything but based on my tests it is only good against infantry and really bad against buildings. This unit should get a good buff or drop its costs because it's a relic unit and expensive in power (if I remember correctly). + Land Speeder Tempest, its rockets doesnt almost damage vehicles or buildings, but I must admit it is a good choice against low tier infantry. + Valkyrie Transport, 3 cap? cannot load vehicles inside? I think it should be able to load vehicles ( because IG variant can ), also I think it is quite ridiculous that much cap considering you are going to use it 1 or 2 times. I feel 1 cap is fair but if you look to Chaos SM DreadClaw, which can load 3 or 4 infantry or 1 vehicle (I'm not sure if it can gather vehicles but I swear once I placed inside a Dreadnought), it doesnt cost any cap and there's a limit of 2 (or was it 3?), may look a little unfair. Anyways, as a Valkyrie can gather more units, 1 cap is fair but let it load vehicles. Also the take off and land animation I think should be faster. + To end this edit, the Nuclear Center and all the nuke centers of the other races that have to 'load the nuke' when built (for example, not the Necron Pyramid), I feel that there should be a 'free nuke' you can use after waiting the 'load time'. After shooting it, you will have to wait again forever to use it (a lot more than paid ones). This free nuke should have a greatly less damage and damage-range than the paid ones.
+ Ultimately, the Grand Maester. I think, I really think he should cost a ton less. I remember in 1.83 I was horrified about how expensive he was, in that time 9000req and 3000pow (not so sure about the pow), but right now I laught when I see his cost at 12000req and 4000pow. I know he was buffed and now has access to fancy expensive wargear, but now he is available in Tier 5. Anyways, I have to say that I never liked the fact that the Paladins that can be summon by him are normal Paladins and thus occupy the laught of 8 infantry cap, I really would like him to summon something like honor Paladins/special Paladins, whatever free of cap. like Tau's Ethereal or Angron.
I don't find necessary to make a dedicated thread to talk about Angron vs the Grand Maester as Lord_Cylarne said he was working on it and along this page and the second of the bug report you can find in the comments my thoughts and changes I propose for the Grand Maester.
Maybe I'm out of my mind with some suggestions, what do you think? Thank you very much for reading and I hope you leave a comment Edited by: tjopzilla |
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| Nov 24 2015 Anchor | ||
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From a pvp/multi player stand point, its known that IDH is currently op and many of the changes you made would further break them. Don't forget that many of the abilities that they access to makes a great difference in power, even for the infantry. As a fraction strongly focused on psyker-related infantry , brute strength and resilience isn't their focus but its more about ability manage management and tactical strikes. I can micro manage/spam the logistics psykers abilities (provided if i have resources) to greatly increase the durability of my buildings and infantry to the point where they are almost invisible. Also IDH don't need extra resource research (nids as well) because they have access to higher resource rates at the start of the game (urban buildings), while other races may only have access to similar structures near the end of the game but even with that the resources generated are not as high as the resources generated. The grand master should be expensive because for many he is unkillable. with his size, morale regeneration, damage/abilities he is lethal. Also when fielded in a dreadknight he basically gains another life so its quite hard to beat him. Like you can just keep teleporting down deadknighs to keep him from taking damage, and even then you got his super morale shield to protect him along with several different way to instantly fully restore his morale shielding. Also some of the above applies to the paladins which is why they are OP/ requires 8 cap. I wouldn't compare the GM to Angron because not the GM can be purchased with normal resources which are easy to acquire and is gained at a much higher rate Vs the relic resource that's require for Angron but also used to produce every worth while units and is produced at a much lower rate (fewer modifiers and production methods) |
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| Nov 24 2015 Anchor | ||
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Yes I have to agree with Void. For the time you will get 10k relic resource you will have like 16-17k requisition. It is common to have 450-500 requisition income in mid-game or pre-late game while you can barely go past 150/200 relic income. So Angron's 20k relic is much more than another 20k in normal resources. Also bear in mind caribpa that when talking about unit efficiency you should take into account not only cost but time to field. Again I say - you can easily have Grand Master at 20th minute while its IMPOSSIBLE to have angron in less than 37-40 mins. Edited by: dominikat |
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| Nov 24 2015 Anchor | ||
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Can GM fielded in the dreadknight? How can I do that? |
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| Nov 25 2015 Anchor | ||
exsonic01 wrote: Put the GM in a dreadknight...... just like how you would place any other infantry into a transport vehicle or building. Edited by: VoidLight |
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| Nov 25 2015 Anchor | ||
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I made and edit to talk about the Inquisitorial planes because I totally forgot. It is placed before the Grand Maester. VoidLight wrote: Can you tell me why it is exactly OP? because comparing to Necrons or Tyranids I don't see how OP they are. Playing Inquisition is a race to get the Grey Knight Teleporter. Before Grey Knight Teleporter, I think that their best units are the Bodyguards, their 'upgrade': the Servitors with guns and the Razorback, but except the Bodyguards, the other units I mentioned take some time to build. After the Grey Knight Teleporter they begin to kick ass, but before? So you shouldnt say that they are OP because their survivance till Grey Knight Teleporter is not as guaranteed as the Necrons or Tyranids to reach their latest tiers. VoidLight wrote: I took some of my time to write all my suggestions, if you could be more specific I would appreciate it and I will defend why I think it is a good idea or agree with you about why it doesn't. VoidLight wrote: The Logistics Psykers repair buildings, vehicles (if researched the Rhino vehicle-repairment), detect enemy units, deactivate enemy turrets + SP defenses, and one more I dont remember exactly (wasnt it to detect uncaptured SP?). All those abilities lasts something like 5 seconds and costs 300pow (not sure if all but at least the repair ones and the deactivate enemy defenses). To get this unit you need to build the Grey Knight Teleported and before buying it, you have to research the schematic. I dont know which ability/abilities you are using to increase the durability of your infantry because as far as I know, there arent such abilities in the Logistics Psyker. I also spam his last abilities and I run out of energy pretty pretty fast, that's why I didn't mention this Psyker because I find him balanced. VoidLight wrote: Wait a second, in the last statement you did about the Logistics Psyker, you said that you would use his abilities if you have resources, meaning you can get out of resources, but now, in this statement you are saying that they dont need extra resources... I'm confused, can you explain this? The fact (and this is what you didnt say) is that they wont get as much power as req by super far without more than 6 generators. To achieve this you need at least 18 or more generators and I believe they are not free nor the main Inquisitorial building (which is more expensive every time you build a new one). Yes, you can research a Power addon to a Urban Territory but after 4 (or 5?) of this buildings, the next one costs more than 1k, so by my tests, the best is not to use this addon and build another Inquisitorial Building and its generators (way cheaper and faster with a lot of builders). I have no clue about Tyranids, I only mentioned that IDH should have income upgrades in Tier 5, but ok, with only level 3 power upgrade in Tier 5 I think I would be happy. Also you forget you have to build the Urban Territories anyways because you get your infantry/vehicle cap from there, also its cost increase every time you build one and then you have to protect it. Not a piece of cake. VoidLight wrote: I'm not saying he should be cheap, I'm saying he shouldnt cost 12000req 4000pow nor he should cost fully upgraded 24190req 12945pow. That's insane for him not to be a walking nuke as Angron nor to be a decisive unit. In fact there were games I lost after loosing all my units but the Grand Maester and yep, he was still fighting but the other player knew that the best was to ignore him. That's what I'm talking about because since when you can ignore Angron? VoidLight wrote: Since when the Dreadknights can be summon at any time? they are relic units and not free precisely. This is a viable strategy as well as draining an ally demon squad with Angron's ability to recover instantly his HP or to use a sacrifice, so in this they are tied. VoidLight wrote: Paladins are OP? I dont see them as OP, I see them as a pretty powerful unit just because of the shield but if you know the units for this job (anti-moral ones), you can destroy them like Terminators without shield. That's why I think 8 cap is insane. If you all think this unit is OP, lets make their moral only 30% of their actual but their cap goes to 6 (and Terminators to 5). VoidLight wrote: dominikat wrote: 12000req 4000pow are not that easy to acquire in some maps ( and lets not mention 24190req 12945pow ), but for the Daemonic relic resource exists at least one sacrifice to increase it by +500 temporally but long lasting called Vile Sacrifice which also decreases Angrons summon time, and I must say it costs 1750pow, which I think it's a little much, maybe 1300pow is a better choice, but the thing is you can use it once per main base building once reached Tier 4 (I think) and if you choose the Greater daemons upgrades (if not I think the rate is +200), and I have tested this, if you have 12 generators (level 4 or 5), you will have a rate of +1000 after using Vile Sacrifice twice over a builder and while it lasts, using the level 2 daemonic relic sacrifice (to get 200 req and pow ) in each generator, your power income will be as if you never did this 2 Vile Sacrifices and your Daemonic relic will be pretty high when the sacrifice ends. In fact, doing this 5 times (if I remember it correctly), more or less 2 minutes, you will have enough relic resources to summon Angron, and if you keep doing this, Angron will be built 30% faster. Of course, this require you to do it, timing, etc, but exactly the same than Inquisition with all its abilities or do you think the Inquisitor uses his abilities on his own?. To end this:
Do any of you play with the Inquisition? Because what I see are negative and destructive comments without giving remedies I think it is logical to defend and try to improve the faction you play with. Maybe the problem is that the faction you usually play is underpowered or incomplete (that's the reason I stopped playing with Chaos SM |
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| Nov 25 2015 Anchor | ||
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Btw mate I just checked FULLY upgraded Grand master CANNOT be scratched by non upgraded base Angron. I mean SCRTATCH . I mean the Grand Master's morale almost doesn't tinge... You have to buy Angron a weapon so he can win and he needs like 5 minutes? to kill the grand master. Don't exaggerate next time Edited by: dominikat |
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| Nov 26 2015 Anchor | ||
dominikat wrote: Ok, so I guess you don't mind check it again You can watch it in HD in the vimeo website. The game start from 0 to show what I exactly buy. The battle starts in 5:25 and ends in 21:08. I used the very high resources addon and the game is played in fast speed to shorten the battle for obvious reasons. You can also note "level IIII" commander mistake and see a bug where only one of the 3 squad servitors goes alone to start building. I don't change faction till I have the Grand Maester because when you do it, the commander menu brokes and start showing access to different levels without researching the previous ones. Also I used the Vile Sacrifice a lot of times to get Angron pretty fast. Btw, @dominikat, I didn't say that the battle was going to be fast, I only said that the Grand Maester had no chance. Edited by: tjopzilla |
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| Nov 26 2015 Anchor | ||
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The grand master was never made to kill Angron 1v1 or even do get close to beating Angron. His job was to keep Angron busy and deal some damage while paladins and other IDH forces take him down. Ever lore wise i'm sure the grand master wouldnt even last 1min against Angron 1v1. I thing the grand master should be slightly better than the chapter master and allow IDH to have Reaver titans (and the warlord in future patches) Edited by: VoidLight |
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| Nov 26 2015 Anchor | ||
VoidLight wrote: Ok but that justifies his almost 40k cost? I said every time that he should be waaaaaaaay cheaper, not powerful, I never said he has to beat Angron. |
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| Nov 26 2015 Anchor | ||
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Just because he can't kill Angron 1v1 doesn't mean he should be cheaper. The GM can destroy just about everything else and for the other races in the game the GM is just about impossible to kill (almost like facing Angron). |
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| Nov 27 2015 Anchor | ||
VoidLight wrote: So you find fair that cost? Then you would find fair a change:
And then, lets modify your quote a little: VoidLight wrote: Finally we came to an agreement. |
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| Nov 27 2015 Anchor | ||
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Still you say the prices as if they use the same resources and gain them at the same rate... As I said before relic resources are gained at a slower rate than the resources required for the GM (most players can turtle with 3 capture points), Also IDH don't even need the GM to kill Angron but Angron is more or less required to kill the GM. Also if the GM is SOO expensive and isn't worth the cost (because he cant beat Angron?) then just go for exterminatus and you win any way. I just feel as if the GM is too strong to be cheaper because he can already be fielded faster than Angron in multiplayer games, which I think is more of the focus when it comes to balance. 20k requisition isn't(You can also trade resources to help reach that goal) much at all if you reach end game and have done your eco right, but for Daemon players to be able to save for 20k relic points when fighting against another player, lets just say by the time they have purchase Angron they are already about to win. This is more than just Daemons Vs IDH. most players agree that the GM is very powerful like Angron and IF the GM is cheaper which allows him to be deployed even faster than he already is, then other fractions wouldn't stand a chance against him. Edited by: VoidLight |
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Nov 27 2015 Anchor | |
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The Emperor and His Inquisition will not suffer such heresy! By Inquisitorial Edict I declare this conversation heretical, and you both, VoidLight and Dominik, are guilty in crimes against our Immortal Lord and Humanity in your horrific lie! Although, some of spoken are true. I will bring my objections soon. Edited by: Battlemage1 -- Innocence proves nothing |
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| Nov 27 2015 Anchor | ||
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Listen, @VoidLight, I really appreciate your effort to defend Angron and the Daemons, seriously, this is what it is expected from somebody who plays them but I think we are falling into a loop where, instead of talking about the other 22 suggestions I made (specifically, not generally), we keep digging into Angron and the Grand Maester, and we both know that you want Angron to be as he is right now but with a huge buff in the Chosen Sword (and I fully agree with this), and I want a greatly cheaper Grand Maester without caring if he will be nerfed and can or cannot beat Angron. Please, let's now move onto the other suggestions and I'm sure that more than 1 can be also applied to the Daemons (the nuke center one, for example) Edited by: tjopzilla |
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Nov 27 2015 Anchor | |
False. I've played for them too much and saw how the others play for them too. They're not OP in anyway. Just don't forget about air harrasment on their base and build army of late game units. Also, you can kill IDH with ease in early and mid game. Their main problem - high costs with high, but not enough resourse rates and cap. Inquisition don't trade quality for number, as IG do. Deal with it.
True. The Inquisition has good resourse rates for their economics and support of allied factions, BUT... It has problems with energy. It's often not enough to keep all faction operations as you want.
False. He IS very expensive and require some time to build. And believe me, he can be killed if you have head above your torso. We've noticed his weakness to massive EMP blasts and holding abilities. Also, he can't ruin strong line of IG defenses alone. All his retinue, including dreadknights and paladins are extremely expensive late game most elite units. There is absolutely no reason for crying about that. They worth their costs and no changes here required, because their mobility limited. You are free to strike at IDH base and ruin it completely, while they hunting you or your base on the other side of map. Also, Tau and IG dealing with D-knights quite well. Just like Necrons do. IDH is specific faction to beat Chaos and Daemons. They have many weaknesses, when fight other races. You have to live with it, because on the other hand it would be useless. And believe me, if you face wide specialized Inquisition, which would be equally effective against all, you will delete this mod crying.
You shouldn't. GM is the best and specialized way to defeat Angron of everything the Imperium has. He was created for this purpose, just as the Inquisition was created to counter Chaos.
Both can be fucked by Orks with ease, if you have enough elite rangers and meat for close combat. Also, it's quite adorable that you compare UPGRADED unit with NON UPGRADED. Do you realize how it sounds? And clash of Gods is not really what these both must do. Yes, there are armies await.
False. His morale is his shield, and believe me, when under spam it thinge. Orks and both Eldars know what to do. IG also can send him to oblivion, if it survives long enough.
He should has less time to build or cost decreased without quality changes. Best way is cost change, because then you will be able to support him with handful of elite units he needs. I must remark, than entire bttle group can be destroyed or overruned and defeated by Annihilation Victory. If you can't, it doesn't mean it's impossible. Both Angron and GM are god-like units with crazy costs. But the IDH really should make him a little bit cheaper in order to fix current state of things, when you just have not enough time-resources and Chaos are going to claim your head! You know, IDH really must choose between Grey Knights and usual units. And this choice demands large sacrifices and taxes. And many time. This faction is not OP, because of it's very nature. In many times it can't even assault Chaos succesfully. You just have not enough resources and income is too low. No researches will help you to compensate that. I agreed with many points of carbippa. Yes, he knows what we need. But I must UNDERLINE, that the IDH is narrow specialized faction and even in that way it can be countered by elite units and power of your head. Now IDH has problems, and many of them were brought to this place. Edited by: Battlemage1 -- Innocence proves nothing |
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| Nov 30 2015 Anchor | ||
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First of al, the idh are bamfs in general. Their resources are different than other races and require more attention, but they are just fine. secondly, claiming that the idh should be a highly specialized faction shows a serious lack of understanding of game design. Making them super powerful against csm and daemons makes them unfun to play against. Making them suck against other races makes them unfun to play. Having a faction that's always unfun to play as or against is absolutely horrible design and will generally ensure they'll get played less, making them a waste of design time. I know how they are in the lore, but lore CANNOT dictate gameplay. If we're going by lore, necron warriors would one-shot space marines and a single squad of immortals would tear through relic units like a land raider like butter. If you want yo beat chaos, you'll need to use superior tactics (gasp) just like any other race. |
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| Nov 30 2015 Anchor | ||
Wallabe wrote: Yes, I agree that this is a game and shouldn't be balance out of lore. And how about giving a race a weakness and a strength? I don't know, with which suggestions I made do you agree and with which don't? I think some of them can also be applied to other factions. What changes in your opinion should be made in Inquisition DH? |
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| Dec 5 2015 Anchor | ||
caribpa wrote: Those are fair questions. I'm going to give a general assessment of the IDH, which should also tell you where I stand on your points. Forgive me if this seems disjointed, I wrote this up over a couple of days. I wanted to do some testing to make sure I actually knew what I was talking about. In terms of design, I really think their vfx should be toned down. They're all gorgeous and spot on for the mystical nature of the faction, but this game has very real limitations on how much it can handle. I definitely think there's a balance that can be reached between looks and performance. In terms of overall strengths and weaknesses, the IDH are tend to be stronger against infantry than against vehicles. I wouldn't mind a slight shift towards evening those out, but it's not essential. Edited by: Wallabe |
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| Dec 7 2015 Anchor | ||
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@Wallabe, I agree with all you said but I'm quite surprised you didn't mention:
I'm not sure where to stand about Urban Territories cost increase. I mean, this is necessary in order to balance the resources Inquisition gets but when you reach 4 or 5 Urban buildings, I don't know you but I won't pay more than 1k for the next Territory... How about some research to make them cheaper (tier 5, for example) or maybe make them cheaper depending of the number of main HQ you have? What do you think about:
I wrote my opinion in the first post of the thread about these points and now I would like to know yours as I see you are a pretty good faction analyzer |
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| Dec 7 2015 Anchor | ||
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Caribpa all you ask is basically buffs and BUFFS .... And you are asking for buffs to an already very powerful faction and the most flexible one for sure. Edited by: galvanize! |
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| Dec 7 2015 Anchor | ||
galvanize! wrote: I kinda gave up trying to stop this fraction from becoming more OP or basically necrons but without a weakness (early game). which also means Daemons wont be used since IDH players wont need to have any skill or strategy to beat them in PVP. So I decided to see what the mod team will do with all this feedback, hopefully they wont do much since there are other fractions that could use more polishing, content and additional modifications/fixes. Edited by: VoidLight |
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| Dec 7 2015 Anchor | ||
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Well we already know the Grand master will be quite nerfed so that's a good place to start with.... |
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| Dec 7 2015 Anchor | ||
galvanize! wrote: You are right, I'm asking a lot about buffs... I've been thinking that maybe I feel that buffs are needed because when playing IDH you dont have to buy a lot of upgrades... maybe what should be done is to nerf thing coming after Grey Knight Teleporter, this means, Grey Knights and new vehicles start weaker but you can end up as strong as now (patch 1.84.58) if you buy a lot of new upgrades. That would prevent all the after-Grey Knight-Teleporter early rushes and makes sense since IDH have a lot of resources by that time. But @VoidLight, don't tell me that they are not weak in the beginning, you gotta play turtle to almost assure your survivance against melee races like Orks, Daemons or Tyranids if you arent playing 1v1. I can't stand turtle strategies as I'm a rusher and I tell you this is their weakest moment. Of course, IDH loses against an early Daemon's Furies rush in only 5-7 minutes if they didn't turret-spam (how ugly Also @VoidLight, IDH players dont need any skill based on what? You are only complaining without actually stating what should be nerf and a valid why. Example of one complain of yours:
Another example:
I took those examples from some of your comments in this thread. The fact is that I'm not really sure what I think about IDH but I'm proposing suggestions, I'm not asking about anything, @galvanize!, but as playing IDH against anything in harder or vs another player is not a piece of cake, I don't see them as OP. But you know, some of us propose suggestions and changes and others complains. |
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| Dec 7 2015 Anchor | ||
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I didn't say that they don't need skill now but with the number and size of the buffs you want, they wont need any if much at all. Fury rush is stupid and a waste of resources, only bad daemon players would attempt that knowing a 1-2 well placed turrets could finish them off, it isn't nearly as effective as an attack bikes, assault marines, scarabs(anti armor), wraiths, riders or even mandrakes. Mostly do the numerous nerfs they got in the past. I'll devote my time in the future to show that rushes from some of the "balanced" fractions can be worse. IDH can end a game in around 5 mins alone with body guards. Rush to tier 1 and equip them with meltas and they will be OP. I'v done it and it only take a few shots to kill most commanders, turrets, and any vehicle that ANY fraction could have deployed with in that time frame. Bodyguards have good HP, use 1 infantry cap and are around 1/2 the price of furies, not to mention the free grenades that get. You can further cause other players great stress by having a a scholar squad with their tier 1 research that allows them to cast global invisibility to all of their infantry and commanders (also fully restores morale). If you looking to make them stronger against Daemons there really is no need because I feel as if Daemons themselves are rather incomplete (don't even benefit from win conditions such as titan wars) and don't have much to offer compared to IDH. I mostly play Nids, DE, and Chaos anyway but I don't like to see a decent Daemon player lose to a inexperienced player because of all of the nerfs given to the Daemons while IDH just gets stronger. I think these two fractions should clash when fighting against one another(provided the players are on the same level), but its going to be a one sided ass beating at this rate. OH and Paladins where OP because their armor/HP, morale shielding and morale regeneration was extremely high. So high that they could kill SM/Chaso terminators 1v1, SM commander in terminator, and the Chapter Master without even losing their morale shielding. I tested this while streaming the results to a UA mod member so they could see how ridiculous it was. Edited by: VoidLight |
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( I used to play Chaos SM ).
) and you should point out in the forum its lacks like I'm trying to do (and I did with Chaos SM). If you have luck, sometimes the devs will notice 
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