Imperial Guard Competitiveness Thread - Ultimate Apocalypse Mod (DOW SS) for Dawn of War

After playing with the new additions I have come to realize something, especially with the latest patch. The IG are decent, but they fail to stay competitive as the game drags on. While most factions get fairly sturdy as the game progresses and upgrades are purchased, IG units can't seem to compete well enough and most are killed instantly from other factions units, even Kasrkins and Ogryns struggle to survive. The units that are very good are simply too late game and I find myself rushing to tier 3 as fast as possible, because if I don't, I will be defeated easily by the enemies superior units of the same tier. This isn't just random rage, the AI even struggles and I beat them easily, and in team games, the IG are the first AI to go on my team, or the enemy team. They are simply too weak, especially now. It seems that every unit the IG has, almost every other faction has a better equivalent. Chaos Daemons decimate morale and get very strong units quite fast, and Orks are a faction that spams units like IG but the units it spams are better in almost every way.

I am not just whining because my favorite faction is so weak, but I feel like the balance is severely skewed for the IG. Don't get me wrong, they have a pretty good late game and amazing tanks, but they just cannot seem to put out enough damage and their units die so quickly from otherwise weak attacks. Enemy units that are equivalents of IG units are better and for the same price too :/ It just pains me to see one of the strongest races in WH40k be so easily beaten. The IG are not the weakest, but I feel like every patch they drop a little lower on the race list in terms of power. Seriously though, watch AI vs AI and I guarantee you IG will lose 9 times out of 10 and it has nothing to do with their AI not being smart enough but rather the faction is simply too weak. Am I alone in this thinking? Opinions?

Edited by: Admiral_Gaarn

A suggestion was made to add overcharged lasguns as an upgrade to increase IG infantry damage output later on, but that didn't seem to get added in this patch, unfortunately. I agree with you. The IG are quite good, damn good on the defensive, but they simply get outclassed in the late game. They don't have enough to keep them going to stand against tides of highly-upgraded enemies.

Bmary55 wrote:

A suggestion was made to add overcharged lasguns as an upgrade to increase IG infantry damage output later on, but that didn't seem to get added in this patch, unfortunately. I agree with you. The IG are quite good, damn good on the defensive, but they simply get outclassed in the late game. They don't have enough to keep them going to stand against tides of highly-upgraded enemies.

You are right on the dot. Many factions have upgrades that improve health, damage, morale, armor and speed, but the IG can only slightly improve hp and morale on standard guardsmen, and speed on Kasrkins. The IG relies heavily on infantry until mid-late game, but their infantry sucks when it should slowly get better. I get Guardsmen are supposed to be weak, but they stay that way for the whole game and are outclassed by every other faction. They simply cost too much for how poor they are.

In my opinion, Guardsmen should have their cost be moderately reduced to make them more spammy, and have mid game upgrades that further increase health, damage, and morale beyond what they are now with those pitiful two hp and two morale upgrades from the tactica control. They don't need to be better than other factions infantry, but they should be just below par and very spammable.

In addition, you could do something similar to what the Space marines have that allows you to choose a chapter which gives you special bonuses and units. For the imperial guard you would get to choose a special regiment, here is my list:

United Imperial Guard

Death Korps of Krieg

Cadian Shock Troopers

Harakoni Warhawks

Armageddon Steel Legion

More can be added later, but this on top of the doctrines from the barracks can give the IG military the boost it needs.

Edited by: Admiral_Gaarn

I wouldn't even say the infantry are weak. In my sandbox tests even smaller numbers of Guardsmen and Special Weapons Squads can wipe the floor with many other units. The Guard, in the tabletop and in Dawn of War, have strength in both numbers and ranged combat. The problem is their morale drops so quickly, even with upgrades, and that AOE attacks and artillery annihilate them on a level akin to Tyranids. They're not weak, they're just fragile and expensive. You have to be very careful how you use them in the late game, and it feels like every other faction, even factions with even more fragile infantry like the Tyranids, doesn't have to worry about this. The only truly useless unit in my opinion is the Conscript. I fail to see the point of using them, since they can't beat anything but Grots, Cultists, and just barely the lowest Tyranid units.

Edited by: Bmary55

I'm not a very efficient IG player, but I see usefulness in conscripts, since they have huge numbers and super-low squad cap, they are the perfect cannon fodder to lure for enemy fire, let them target conscripts to protect your precious upgraded guardsmen

In the tabletop Conscripts are very useful, especially with a Commissar. In this mod, however, they're pointless.

I agree they are waay too weak, IG AI is always the first to get steamrolled because their units just plain suck.

I partly agree with most of you, but what irritates me is every faction has much stronger equivalents and many more upgrades, and yes conscripts are indeed pathetically weak on legendary levels after about 2 minutes into the game, even spine gaunts are massively better. Units that they normally counter like Cultists and Furies get many upgrades to make them viable until late game (I.E. Infiltration, Damage, regen, detection, etc), conscripts get scraps for upgrades. I don't think IG as a faction needs a MAJOR buff, but they do need A buff.

Edited by: Admiral_Gaarn

The IG are getting lost in the power-creep of stronger factions like the buffed-to-hell orks and the daemons. used to be the only good lategame tank they had was the demolisher but now it's underperforming and is squishy as hell. It's pretty much impossible to play IG without fortress defense tagged on solely because their infantry is garbage and their tanks take ages to actually get to which I think is a tremendous mistake and needs to be adjusted. Also you need to make it to where the mars pattern convoy actually heals friendly tanks, it doesn't really feel like the thing is even repairing mars-pattern tanks that well even with upgrades, kind of sad really.