General Suggestions Thread - Ultimate Apocalypse Mod (DOW SS) for Dawn of War

I love this mod, it makes me feel like I'm playing a modernized version of Final Liberation (idk if anyone here has played it). But that was the game that got me into Warhammer in the first place, and RTS games. It feels really epic playing this mod. I do however have constructive feedback in regards to things I've noticed. And I do acknowledge I am not a modder, and I'm not saying I could do better so the below is just feedback about some things.So in no particular order.

• BattleSisters, was never really fond of them in vanilla, but it still seems endgame they still get kind of walked over by the other races.

• Orks, I love Orks they're amusing and fun, I loved playing them in Final Liberation, I know you're reworking the large Gargant which is great, however the two large battlewagons (really large) kind of look too "fake" compared to the smaller custom armored units the orks have. Another thing, I outright avoid using some of the units in general due to the (I'm sorry) pretty bad voice acting. I would've thought it'd be easier to just leave the voice as something else or import a Dawn of War 2 audio clip (not just for ork units). but again I'm not a modder, I'm just suggesting things to be worked on.

• Imperial Titans (SM, Chaos, and IG), absolutely love them, would it be possible though, to add the Knight Class Titan? Wh40k.lexicanum.com Also, the texture of the Warhound is beautiful I wouldn't change a thing, but the Reaver in spots seems too "shiny" or "glossy" mostly the head and top plate.-Chaos, I read in the FAQ the no we wont use DarkProphecy models, that's a little vague, and I did read that Chaos is basically the least favorite or something of whoever's working on them. But they kind of seem like at this point they were thrown most of their content as an afterthought, "oh hey we gave everyone else stuff". If need be for ideas go to the Chaos section on lexicanum.com and look at their units. Another tidbit would be prevent the Rubric Marines, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, and Khorne Bezerkers, etc. (affiliated units) from being teamcolored so you dont pick say Thousand Sons paint and have Blue khorne bezerkers, plague marines, & noise marines, etc.

Again though as I said I'm not trying to go on a tirade, or say I could do a better job, these are just things I noticed that could be improved. Honestly I'd even help if I could, and I apologize for any ignorance towards how to do certain things lol

/end wall of text

Hey bro! Thanks for feedback. Got some questions of my own:

• BattleSisters, was never really fond of them in vanilla, but it still seems endgame they still get kind of walked over by the other races.

So during end game, how should I spice it up in 1.74?

The Ork VOs I'll look into... maybe increase the volume as the least I can do. Noted.

Knight Titans are a plan indeed! However it requires a modelers "skill" to implement and that may take some time. Chances are you might see it in 1.74, and chances are it won't. But we'll keep an eye out for it.

As for Dark Prophecy stuff, they disallowed permission to all other modders + contains Witch Hunter + DOW 2 assets we don't need.

Someone wrote: Again though as I said I'm not trying to go on a tirade, or say I could
do a better job, these are just things I noticed that could be improved.
Honestly I'd even help if I could, and I apologize for any ignorance
towards how to do certain things lol

Thanks but no need for that, you were using criticism to improve the mod.

Thanks for the reply

In regards to the Sisters of Battle:
I've run a few skirmishes with the Sisters with various settings, including high resource rate/quickstart and the "Titan Wars" turned on. I noticed the Titan Wars, everyone else can build a fair amount of their Titans/Relic units, which is fun. However with the Sisters it seems while you may see numerous Titans late game from the AI or a human oponent, they only can build 1 Saint or the Archangel at a time. Their Faith cap seems to be pretty low even with a good amount of holy icons placed on points. I think on Hell Lutien or some other 8p map I had about 200ish faith maximum, whereas a match with Titan Wars on for lets say Space Marines, late game you'll have anywhere near 250+ Relic Points with the relic units/titans only costing anywhere from 1-6 Relic points. I would have either 1 saint or the archangel, but not enough to research the archangels buffs while i had a saint, and not enough to have the archangel and a saint.

There's not much as far as I could tell from lexicanum.org in the way of more units for the sisters, their odd obsession with fire and melta weaponry lol makes them insanely good against most weak/mass threats. The saints are all useful and powerful, and well balanced, somewhere between a small bloodthirster and a land-raider.

Perhaps give them unique auras like that of the Avatar of Khaine? Maybe give Celestine (Yellow) an aura that enhances regen of health, Blue (forgot her name) an aura that enhances morale and defense, and Red (forgot her name too) a damage aura if at all possible?

Now I know you wouldn't just make up units, but maybe adding somewhat plausible units to the sisters roster late game, say allowing them to use the Knight Titan but not the Warhound and Reaver so atleast they have some form of large mechanized instrument of destruction lol. Also possibly add a late game research buff to their Faith cap/rate. Another thing just in general would possibly be an addition of more turret variants that would help everyone out. As of right now the Sisters feel like a strong early-mid game race that struggles to keep up in the late game, which is fine if you want a quick match but if you want to drag it out and rack up obscene kill counts well.... lol

Those are just some thoughts I had on the SoB.

On another note,

Chaos
Are there any plans/thoughts for either a permanent or optional download to override the teamcolor of certain chaos units so that they cannot be team colored? for example, the Rubric Marines, Khorne Bezerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, they all at the moment appear with whatever color you select as your paint scheme. Hopefully this doesn't sound too trivial, its just picking say Word Bearers paint and then seeing Maroon Rubric/Plague/Noise marines is kind of silly, since they're always suppose to be a certain color. Visually it also makes it kind of hard to glance around and see what something is without clicking on it. Just in general Chaos' looks like visualy it was overlooked.

There may be more units but I had mainly noticed it on them, in the way of actual "gameplay" however, maybe adding things like Noise variants of certain armored units, replacing the silly deathwheel lol, toning down the green on the Plague Reaper (which is an awesome tank btw), possibly take the model of the Dark Eldar Warp beasts and modify it slightly in appearance and stats to give their Chaos Flesh Hounds (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Flesh_Hound#.U6ScM_ldVBk)

There's a slew of ideas on lexicanum

Edited by: Deathz_Jester

Deathz_Jester wrote: Perhaps give them unique auras like that of the Avatar of Khaine? Maybe give Celestine (Yellow) an aura that enhances regen of health, Blue (forgot her name) an aura that enhances morale and defense, and Red (forgot her name too) a damage aura if at all possible?

I like this idea. That's quite interesting, actually, and makes all the Saints more unique.

Deathz_Jester wrote: Now I know you wouldn't just make up units, but maybe adding somewhat plausible units to the sisters roster late game, say allowing them to use the Knight Titan but not the Warhound and Reaver so atleast they have some form of large mechanized instrument of destruction lol.

I don't think that really fits the Sisters, in my opinion. It seems more fitting that they use faith-based powerhouses than "mechanised instruments of destruction." The rest of the Imperium already has those, so it's nice to have the Sisters stand out from the crowd.

Deathz_Jester wrote: Also possibly add a late game research buff to their Faith cap/rate.

Could be useful, actually.

Deathz_Jester wrote: Another thing just in general would possibly be an addition of more turret variants that would help everyone out.

Yes. In fact, everyone should really have more turret variants. Not sure what else the Sisters would have apart from Flamer and Melta turrets, though. How about Emperor's Touch turrets? =D

Deathz_Jester wrote: As of right now the Sisters feel like a strong early-mid game race that struggles to keep up in the late game, which is fine if you want a quick match but if you want to drag it out and rack up obscene kill counts well.... lol.

Try facing against a god-titan level Archangel. You will very quickly eat your words. =P

Deathz_Jester wrote: Are there any plans/thoughts for either a permanent or optional download to override the teamcolor of certain chaos units so that they cannot be team colored? for example, the Rubric Marines, Khorne Bezerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, they all at the moment appear with whatever color you select as your paint scheme. Hopefully this doesn't sound too trivial, its just picking say Word Bearers paint and then seeing Maroon Rubric/Plague/Noise marines is kind of silly, since they're always suppose to be a certain color. Visually it also makes it kind of hard to glance around and see what something is without clicking on it. Just in general Chaos' looks like visualy it was overlooked.

But what if people want to dress them all up in pink with yellow polkadots? Got to have the freedom of choice. =D

Deathz_Jester wrote: Possibly take the model of the Dark Eldar Warp beasts and modify it slightly in appearance and stats to give their Chaos Flesh Hounds.

I'm not entirely certain, but I could have sworn that the Daemons mod has Flesh Hounds. If so, they could use those.

Deathz_Jester wrote: Another thing, I outright avoid using some of the units in general due to the (I'm sorry) pretty bad voice acting.

Oh yes. Some of the voice acting in the Orks is quite terrible indeed. They really need better voices.

THEONLYDarkShadow wrote:

I was looking for serious constructive conversation from Cylarne or a teammember, not bad comedic relief.

Deathz_Jester wrote:
Chaos
Are there any plans/thoughts for either a permanent or optional download to override the teamcolor of certain chaos units so that they cannot be team colored? for example, the Rubric Marines, Khorne Bezerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, they all at the moment appear with whatever color you select as your paint scheme. Hopefully this doesn't sound too trivial, its just picking say Word Bearers paint and then seeing Maroon Rubric/Plague/Noise marines is kind of silly, since they're always suppose to be a certain color. Visually it also makes it kind of hard to glance around and see what something is without clicking on it. Just in general Chaos' looks like visualy it was overlooked.

You can edit the wtp files which correspond to those units to make them non team colourable. Extract them with this tool Skins.hiveworldterra.co.uk and remove the layers you don't want to be teamcolourable, like primary, secondary... (eyes is trim 2). Note that the default colours of the unit may not be the desired ones so you may need to edit those textures to look like you want them to look. I personnaly prefer having my units team colourable for the sake of personalization but i understand that some prefer keeping things like in the codex.
This is just a suggestion. Either way Lord Cylarne or one of the team members should probably give you an answer on your suggestions when they notice them/have the time.

thanks to the person who reminded me of this, but could the ork titan teleporter be change into a construction building because i remember reading up on armageddon battles and that they the orks attacking actually built their titans rather than teleporting them in on the coast line.

now i put together this example with a wide brush so that people can use their imagination and figure out how they want it to look..

Th03.deviantart.net
it would obviously be a large warehouse like shed with generator and crane built in along with a telsa bits stuck on the side.

Edited by: Sims_doc

Deathz_Jester wrote: I was looking for serious constructive conversation from Cylarne or a teammember, not bad comedic relief.

I wasn't giving comic relief. I was being serious (mostly). I was simply agreeing with some of your points and disagreeing with others, or did you think your opinion was the only one that mattered? =P Other people play this mod too, you know.

THEONLYDarkShadow wrote:

Deathz_Jester wrote: I was looking for serious constructive conversation from Cylarne or a teammember, not bad comedic relief.

I wasn't giving comic relief. I was being serious (mostly). I was simply agreeing with some of your points and disagreeing with others, or did you think your opinion was the only one that mattered? =P Other people play this mod too, you know.

No, the idea was I wanted serious constructive conversation, because other than the 1st, 3rd, 7th, and 8th thing you said in your first post, none of it contributed to the conversation. Unless of course you can have a conversation without making an attempt at "cutesy" remarks. Then I'll reply to that.

But for the 1, 3, 7, and 8th points, I will say thank you.

Edited by: Deathz_Jester

Deathz_Jester wrote:

THEONLYDarkShadow wrote:

Deathz_Jester wrote: I was looking for serious constructive conversation from Cylarne or a teammember, not bad comedic relief.

I wasn't giving comic relief. I was being serious (mostly). I was simply agreeing with some of your points and disagreeing with others, or did you think your opinion was the only one that mattered? =P Other people play this mod too, you know.

No, the idea was I wanted serious constructive conversation, because other than the 1st, 3rd, 7th, and 8th thing you said in your first post, none of it contributed to the conversation. Unless of course you can have a conversation without making an attempt at "cutesy" remarks. Then I'll reply to that.

But for the 1, 3, 7, and 8th points, I will say thank you.

Actually, the second point was also serious. The sixth point was serious with a little bit of humour. You do need to let others have the freedom to choose what colour schemes they want for their units, even if it doesn't fit to lore. It's the whole point of the Army Painter. The fifth point was simply me pointing out that the Sisters aren't as weak late-game as you say they are. There is a period of vulnerability, but once they get past that they crush everything.

The fourth point was mostly humorous, I'll grant you that; but that's how I roll. They do need more turret variants, though. I'm just not sure what else they could use that would fit their style.

THEONLYDarkShadow wrote:

Actually, the second point was also serious. The sixth point was serious with a little bit of humour. You do need to let others have the freedom to choose what colour schemes they want for their units, even if it doesn't fit to lore. It's the whole point of the Army Painter. The fifth point was simply me pointing out that the Sisters aren't as weak late-game as you say they are. There is a period of vulnerability, but once they get past that they crush everything.

The fourth point was mostly humorous, I'll grant you that; but that's how I roll. They do need more turret variants, though. I'm just not sure what else they could use that would fit their style.

I dont see a reason why not to add atleast the Knight (The smallest titan) to the sisters of battle, since it would not be game breaking, as right now they can usually only get 1 saint or the Archangel, and 1 saint gets quickly dispensed by a good enough army. As far as it "not fitting" , thats contradicting your point about "freedom of customization" if you're going to thump on the Codex for unit availability but then say you need to have everything teamcolorable. Also did you completely miss the part where I clearly said: "Are there any plans/thoughts for either a permanent or optional download to override the teamcolor of certain chaos units so that they cannot be team colored?" You can have your freedom of customization and I can have my correct looking Khorne Bezerkers, Plague Marines, Rubric Marines, etc.

And the sisters are by far the weakest race in the game, not that I even like their gun-toting table-top feminism faction, but atleast give them a fighting chance late game. They have moderately good mid game, but late game when the real relic units and titans come out to play they pluck the wings right off that archangel. (that's when they arent causing crashes to desktop) As far as the turrets go, everyone needs more turret variants, and they've already shown screen shots of some of them, so I'm assuming just like the ones they've shown they'll get lasgun, missile, plasma, autocannon, etc.

sidenote; maybe tone down the tacky gold texture of the Archangel, whats wrong with just using silver and white, make the archangel just really pale in all the colors with silver armor. Just a suggestion, instead of the 200 faith point eye sore with a really cool voice.

Calm down both of you (Deathz_Jester and THEONLYDarkShadow) no need to take this thread to somewhere far from its original purpose (which may happen if you continue the current path).
Either way, Deathz_Jester my suggestion was precisely directed to your optional download of non-tc chaos units, like some fan addons that recently were uploaded to the UA addon section if you or someone else followed my suggestion the same could happen with what you want. In most cases if you want something done like you want it to be done, better do it yourself but that is how i am used to doing things and i respect it if you are not like, if humans we are all equal in mind then the world would be way less interesting.

Deathz_Jester wrote:

THEONLYDarkShadow wrote: Actually, the second point was also serious. The sixth point was serious with a little bit of humour. You do need to let others have the freedom to choose what colour schemes they want for their units, even if it doesn't fit to lore. It's the whole point of the Army Painter. The fifth point was simply me pointing out that the Sisters aren't as weak late-game as you say they are. There is a period of vulnerability, but once they get past that they crush everything.

The fourth point was mostly humorous, I'll grant you that; but that's how I roll. They do need more turret variants, though. I'm just not sure what else they could use that would fit their style.

I dont see a reason why not to add atleast the Knight (The smallest titan) to the sisters of battle, since it would not be game breaking, as right now they can usually only get 1 saint or the Archangel, and 1 saint gets quickly dispensed by a good enough army.

Because it doesn't really fit them gameplay-wise. Faith is their unique resource so it makes sense that their important things revolve around it. It also, as I stated in an earlier post, makes them stand out from the rest of the Imperium. The Knights would be more fitting in the other parts, like the Space Marines or Inquisition. It doesn't really fit the feel of the race, in my opinion. Of course, others are free to disagree. Also, they can have far more than one Living Saint at a time with enough Holy Icons. Each Saint, last I checked, only requires one Holy Icon; unless that's changed.

Deathz_Jester wrote: As far as it "not fitting", thats contradicting your point about "freedom of customization" if you're going to thump on the Codex for unit availability but then say you need to have everything teamcolorable.

This mod doesn't exactly seem to follow the Codex at all times. That was the point I was trying to make. The Codex mod is the one that stays strictly to the Codex.

Deathz_Jester wrote: Also did you completely miss the part where I clearly said: "Are there any plans/thoughts for either a permanent or optional download to override the teamcolor of certain chaos units so that they cannot be team colored?" You can have your freedom of customization and I can have my correct looking Khorne Bezerkers, Plague Marines, Rubric Marines, etc.

I did notice that and so did GreenScorpion, as he had already given you a response but you never gave a response to him. I think it's an interesting idea and leads to more customisation for the user.

Deathz_Jester wrote: And the sisters are by far the weakest race in the game, not that I even like their gun-toting table-top feminism faction, but atleast give them a fighting chance late game. They have moderately good mid game, but late game when the real relic units and titans come out to play they pluck the wings right off that archangel. (that's when they arent causing crashes to desktop) As far as the turrets go, everyone needs more turret variants, and they've already shown screen shots of some of them, so I'm assuming just like the ones they've shown they'll get lasgun, missile, plasma, autocannon, etc.

Well they could use some improvement in some areas. Hopefully that will happen. As for the turrets: they'll probably be fire-based or melta-based, I'd imagine.

Deathz_Jester wrote: Sidenote; maybe tone down the tacky gold texture of the Archangel, whats wrong with just using silver and white, make the archangel just really pale in all the colors with silver armor. Just a suggestion, instead of the 200 faith point eye sore with a really cool voice.

Personally, I like the golden shine. It also goes well with the Divine Slaughter ability.

GreenScorpion wrote: Calm down both of you (Deathz_Jester and THEONLYDarkShadow) no need to take this thread to somewhere far from its original purpose (which may happen if you continue the current path).

I agree, this is becoming a little too heated for my tastes; however, I must point out that our conversation actually hasn't gone off-topic. It's just a case of differing opinions on what would be good ideas for the mod, but I think we should pull back before the topic does become de-railed. All has been said that needs to be said.

In the coming release I would like to see two restriction type game rules. One that allows only the creation of basic land vehicles and one that restricts all non-titan land vehicles. There is already a titan restriction rule which could be used together with any of these.

What do you think? Is it feasible for the next patch?

I was laying in bed this morning thinking about UA and wanted to tell you about what I hope to see. I play quite often and even though there are some great maps out there for the game I would like the builder units to be able to build more defensive structures like sand bag walls, trenches or earthen walls. I like to get my early units into cover as much as possible and often times this is not possible. What do you think?

VaRaMir wrote: SOB infantry could have a toggeable ability "Fury of the Emperor/Holy Inferno" or something like that. Wall of text follows.

There is already an ability that works similar to that in the game: Emperor's Touch. Also, I don't think you can have weapon upgrades as a requirement. Who knows, though; maybe someone's managed to do it.

- It would be nice to have an icon or something for units like the the packed up I.G. heavy weapons team to show which weapon they have if unpacked, like the basic, the auto gun or the laser.

- It would be good to have a button or some option somewhere in game to toggle visibility of weapon ranges on selected objects. So when turned on, weapon ranges would be constantly visible as long as the respective object is selected. In the case of more than one selection, it would be shown individually for each. In the case of deployable objects like the I.G. heavy weapons team, both their basic weapon's and unpacked weapon's range could be shown. While turned off, it would be like now.

- The description boxes are in some cases still cut off at the bottom.
- In the game lobby the game rule window could be wider to accommodate for the long rule names... or just shorten them, because for some, nearly half of the text is cut off anyway.

Hi, sorry for my bad english.

These are my suggestions:

1) Ability in skirmish maps to control also enemy units and make them harmless by request.
In this way with a 8 map you can build yourself infantry, vehicles, buildings of every race and test yourself all weapons (power, flow rate).

2) Ability to destroy / recycle vehicles not helpful.

Chance to destroy / recycle buildings that sometimes hinder vehicles.

3) Ability to build longer tank traps.

4) Ability to build dig water trenches (with infantry, vehicle or
explosive) +/- wide to block +/- large vehicles
A line of defense that can not be destroyed by weapons,
and that if large enough can stop even relic tanks and titans.
Just recycle 2d water picture.

Ability to plug the trenches or overcome by constructing concrete slab.

5) Ability to load weapons with +/- energy (example: upgrade heavy weapon team with anti tank single shot)

6) Ability to build vehicles (long range) and structures (very long range) defensive that render impossible the enemy teleportation in a certain area (terminators, Necrons deep strike)

Transportation instead is always possible but it must be possible to destroy the transport vehicle and what it delivers.

Possibility of building transport vehicle to mars patterson vehicles.

7) I.G. Tank command:
The color of the icons of vehicles is too dark.
The dark gray color of the background of the icons of the vehicles constructible seems to indicate that you can not build.
It is better the color tone of the icons of mechanized command
Thanks for the attention

I would like to see certain commander levels limited by tiers. For instance, tier one you can upgrade your commander to level 3, however you must wait to continue upgrading your commander until you get to tier 2. Tier 2 would allow you to upgrade your commander from level 3 to 7, and tier three would allow you to upgrade your commander up to level 10. This would disallow players to rush in with their fully upgraded commanders and win with just their commander. It would work well with stopping commanders from getting too powerful in early game, keeping it more balanced and fair. You could even limit levels for just certain commanders as well. For example, maybe the Hive Tyrant on the Tyranids can only level up to level 2, but the Imperial Guard General can upgrade to level 3 in tier 1. This is because the Hive Tyrant is far more powerful than the General and this would balance the commanders out, so that no commander is more powerful than the other. Now of course some commanders will be far more powerful than others, but this just helps to reduce the strength of overpowered commanders over under-powered commanders to allow an even playing ground.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and please take it into consideration. If you have any questions or thoughts about the idea just reply, I'll be more than happy to answer any questions.

Sincerely, Obese_Man.

For some factions, units have to be unlocked first by an upgrade. The Eldar for example, has most of its units locked behind upgrades that have some pretty much useless descriptions... they are incomplete at best.

It would be really helpful if the upgrade descriptions would also contain not just the name of the unit-to-be-unlocked but some minimal information too, like is it primarily ranged or melee, what kind of unit is it good against and if it is a support unit, then what kind of support abilities does it have (their purpose) - things like that.

Edited by: Zsombi

For the Ripper Swarm in Tyranid race suggestions :

- New purpose than just builder like the Dark eldar slave, they gather resources of the dead so does the Ripper builder I hope. Just to make them use in the battle field and its real purpose.
- Give it a skill that could activate/deactivate that automatically gathers the dead resources that it can find in its limited surrounding range .

Just an idea and what I've read.

And hopefully the large group of spine gaunts that spawn max will be free from squad cap.

Keep it up guys for the improvement. I hope I've contributed something meaningful.

Edited by: ralph777

Is there a way to add the army colours from PoK mod to UA mod?, along with the badges and banners of course, though i know there are some of the banners there already but i just love the lore like army colours and to do most manually would be quite a time consuming task.