Ultimate Apocalypse is a mod for Dawn of War Soulstorm, which aims to create the most diverse possible unit and faction selection within the confines of the original DOW engine. We strive to create the most engaging and balanced Warhammer 40,000 game that we can, without sacrificing the fun factor. From hordes of Orks to the towering Titans, you can always find a new way to play UA. We invite all of you to join us on our Discord server to keep up with the development of the mod!

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Faction and AI Tactics and or "How to defeat the machine" 101 (Games : Dawn of War : Mods : Ultimate Apocalypse Mod (DOW SS) : Forum : Strategy Discussion : Faction and AI Tactics and or "How to defeat the machine" 101) Locked
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Feb 1 2017 Anchor

First off, i know there is already a thread, but it's dead and empty, so a new thread will do.

This thing is not about any technical questions, i.e. "what factor does the AI get Resources", it's purely about gameplay advice and rough build orders.

This Guide is split into 4 rough sections:

1: General Gameplay Tips
2: General AI Information and Tips
3: Playing As ________ - Section
4 Playing with/against _______ - Section

Also as a disclaimer: I wrote this guide based on official info from the threads here, but mostly on personal experience. Therefore you may find that some of this guide doesn't apply to you, if so, feel free to add your advice in the comments, if it's good i might add it!

General Information:

I ried to find general rules for all situations and factions, but i experienced that the AI behaves wildly different depending on your settings and factions, but i could find a few general points:

- The strenght of the AIs assault is determined by current income rather then the best possible use of population, and to some degree the terrain of the map. In practice, this means the grade of the AIs unit scales with how much resources they can generate (for this reason AIs which can generate both Resources can become extremely aggressive, ill get to that)

- The AIs macro is good, but its unflexible, and all factions will follow their same template build order akin to their strengths.

- All AIs use their commander units and will try to upgrade them as early as possible - this can become a real backbreaker when you modify the resource gain rates, as some commander units are extremely potent because of their spellcasting just 1 or 2 minutes in.

- Some AIs work better then others, some only work in certain circumstances. If you change the game settings from "Annihilation" to "Assasination", the AIs opener will come considerably later, albeit considerably harder. Expect quirky things to happen when you turn up the pop cap, some factions (most notably Orks, SoB and Dark Eldar) can behave erratically or stop behaving at all

- AI pathfinding isn't nearly as bad as Vanilla, but that being said, it's not good either. This means that the AI will have difficultys on map with lots of cramped terrain or SCAR details, which mosly leads to the AI not building endgame units or getting stuck. This also means that the AI will not always follow the logical pathway, but rather funnel all its forces down a bottleneck, to a surprising degree of effect.

- The AI will always try and rush you, and once they start attacking they generally dont cease their attack until utterly broken or pushed back. you should note that the AI always goes straight on to your spawning position, no matter what.

-The AI will also try to build forward bases, especially when funneld into a choke point. Depending on the map size this can drastically increase the density of attacks whilst possibly reducing the time units spend travelling to almost zero, which can leave you in a bad spot, especially against swarm armies.

- While generally balanced, the Ai seems to choose quantity over quality, tending to produce mid tier units even during all-out Titan warfare. However, this can also drastically change depending on game settings.

- The AI loves spells, and will micro the hell out of its spellcasters, even favoring ability-rich endgame/relic units over more offensive ones, especially those with lots of spells or spawn ability.

- AIs do employ superweapons, but they rarely use them, and even then they stick to the less direct ones. They will however research all possible upgrades for structures as long as they are not restricted, meaning that you may be blocked from using superweapons until key structures are destroyed.

- I'm not entirely clear on the AIs exact conditions and building behavior, but the primary factor seems to be rate at which the AI gets resources and the maximum amount of relic resource, whilst the secondary factors are pop cap and map terrain, whilst the gamemode mainly seems to affect combat behavior. In practice this means that the amount of potential SP's an AI can cap also defines the rate and strength of its assault, which is self explanatory, but more importantly it defines what units it's going to build, given enough space and relic. An AI with 5 SP's wil rarely build expensive relic units, whilst an AI with 10-15+ will build relic units and titans frequently. The combat behaviour mainly stays the same, the AI will continually assault you with both commanders and units wehn playing annihilation, during assasination it will mostly hold back until maxed out before attacking you, but other than that the attack pattern stays the same.


Part 2: General Gameplay Tips

These tips and tricks are general and not faction related, albeit some factions may get more use out of them then others, and depending how much they suit your play style.

Depending on your faction, map size and layout, there are two basic build orders you should stick to. It's not necessary to follow them line-by-line, especially if you have a (human) ally with you.

Also: DONT FLOAT!
If you do, you're not doing something wrong, you're doing nothing, which is worse.

Eco-Start: This start may work better for players having trouble adjusting to high unit and upgrade costs or find themselves suffering from production block in midgame, and works better the more SP's you can safely get (i.e. on maps with a choke or an ally holding the front).

Start by building 3-4 tier 0 HQ infantry units and queue them to capture SP's, and if applicable, rush them to capture any chokes you can. Don't focus on getting relics and crits at this point, you got plenty of time until they you first require them. Immediately order your builder to construct two generators and your cheapest building you need to tech up and build another 4 builders, 2 of which will be used for base building, 2 will continuosly build LP's and one will construct generators. Build LP's in the same order as you capture points, but focus on chokes if you can until you have a stable income of around 120-160, then start researching the first Tier upgrade. Build a barracks and all generators you have left to build, tart to research upgrades and upgrade your LP's whilst waiting for the upgrade to finish, then pump out a few squads of Tier 1 infantry. Continously upgrade your LP's and generators (build Slag ones if possible) and Tier up as fast as you can. Build a second HQ and more generators, or you'll get blocked later. After that, its up to you wether to focus on Elite Units or building titans and other Ubers or going for a gamebreaker.

Aggro-Start: This may work better for players who find themselves unable to keep with their oppenents late gamers or players who prefer to harass and besiege their enemy as early as possible, and tends to work better on smaller maps and factions with low unit cost or natural deepstrike abilities.

Open up by immediately dropping barracks as close to your enemy as you initial radius allows, and depending on wether your faction has good HQ Infantry (SM Scouts are particularly strong early on, as well as Conscripts due to the extreme reinforcement speed) or not, build 4-6 of them. Send two of them to capture points whilst sending the other two directly to your enemy base. Build 3 the fastest scout unit you have in the barracks (Skimmer bikes and the bikes of both Chaos and Loyalists excel for that, riders are efficient too) and send them to snipe any and all builders and capturing infantry you can find whilst building generators and basic tier 0 infantry squads. it doesn't matter if you lose them, it is in fact bound to happen, just dont lose them too early (try to at least kill the amount of resources you spent). As soon as you have a fair amount of units, harass your enemy some more, and once you feel you are getting occupied elsewhere or need the space in you pop cap, suicide them into where they can do the most damage (try to target generators, the AI clusters them up, and losing 6 of them at once hurts the AI bad) to economy. You should now be in a good spot to besiege your enemy, since you not only have map control, but you are also denying him resources. Note that this strategy is a bad idea on large maps and obsolete if the map has a choke you plan to use.

General Tips:

- Generators speed up production and research speed of adjacent buildings, Nuclear Generators even more, to a great degree.

- Don't mix your army to much. Focus on one form of damage and build a bulk of units producing that damage instead of trying to accomodate every option.

- Artillery is an extremely powerful defense and can break most units morale during a charge, and if placed correctly lasts until the end of the round. it#s an sound investment to build a few units.

- Swarm armies are vulnerable to high DPS output and generally sport weaker Ubers and Titans, whilst Tech Armies have extremely potent End Gamers whose shields can often take more punishment then a small army.

- Don't get power blocked - 6 generators can be enough, but usually aren't. Build another HQ building, but take the high cost into account.

- Flamers are not worth the money when you have access to heavy bolters, any variant of Melta weapons or other high DPS weapons. Heavy Flamers perform extremely bad when compared to chainguns.

- Turn on Add On: Auto Abilities in the Game Settings if you want your units to use some offensive abilities automatically. Rally, Med Kit and various speels and support abilites still need to be manually cast however.

- Cue your units commands to minimize the time you spent away from the battle.

- Do not leave your base defenseless, since enemy stealth units can cause horrific damage when undetected and your army is occupied, especially on large maps. A few turrets and a scanner turret will make this danger disappear and will also buy valuable time if attacked.

- Build AA. Seriously, do it. Almost half of my lost games ended in cancer because some air units sneaked past and sniped my eco to shit before i could react. Most air units tand no chance against two dedicated AAs, and you wont really need more.

- Be wary of your artillery, for its fire can be quite devastationg for you if you get caught in it.

- Engage enemy artillery whenever possible, just two or three units are enough to shred a wall of turrets in a matter of salvos.

- Some Factions are more suited to a certain style while others are more flexible. They are also factions better for new players or easier gameplay. This ranking is purely subjective, but its a general ranking.

1: Space Marines - tanky units which forgive a lot of screw ups and become ever-so potent with their upgrades to the point of terminators violently abusing entire tank battailons in a blink and are a pretty straightforward "A-move to Victory" deal, albeit a boring one, since you can potentially suicide an air unit to drop your army right in your enemys base to gg.

2: Chaos Marines - also very tanky, but tading some of that tankyness fore extra offense and more specialised branches.

3: IG and Tau - IG: Pretty straightforward RTS-Race, with tons of squishy infantry, the best tanks and artillery as well as the most powerful endgamers
Tau: Guerilla-style faction that employs lots of stealth and ranged superioty, has by far the best range and good infantry, but lacks heavy armor and has few good vehicles.

4: Adeptus Sororitas: Very mobile army that can potentially devastate any mid game faction, but effectively loses all power during Endgame (It's a work in progress though)

4.5 Necrons: THE Race if you want to turtle around until you steamroll anything and declare Egypt, but very vulnerable to rushing and fast manouevers, but almost indestructible after midgame. Sucks at rushing.

5: Inquisition Daemonhunters - Difficult faction that plays very different and has a brutal learning curve. Has powerful melee specialists and by far the most powerful endgame unit (gets free squad of Uber-terminators every minute or so, and without pop cap requirements) and spellcasters.

6: Tyranids/Chaos Daemons: Both are swarm armies which play horribly in my opinion, because at the moment they feel unbalanced and leave litte choice.
Tyranids can become nigh-uncountable and raise their health to perversely high amounts, whilst daemons can potentially block, slow, snare, poison, harm or instantly kill almost all units, leading to both having very little counter except dedicated tank races or in the case of Daemons the Inquisition.

7: Eldar/Dark Eldar: Very fragile units with good abilites and speed that can outmanouver anything, but they can't take any form of physical punishment. Can be one of the most potential races, but always felt like terminal stage cancer to me.



The other 2 Sections will follow later this week, since it takes to write this stuff.


Catz_Rule
Catz_Rule Uhhh....
Feb 3 2017 Anchor

"- Flamers are not worth the money when you have access to heavy bolters, any variant of Melta weapons or other high DPS weapons. Heavy Flamers perform extremely bad when compared to chainguns."

I disagree. Try a SoB Retributor squad vs any infantry with heavy flamers, then without. If you're going anti vehicle, flamers are obviously out of the question, but on a general basis they are very effective. Same with IG guardsmen. You will be able to avoid a lot of early game melee pain(mainly raptors and Assault Marines) if you can micro one squad with flamers to support whichever squad is getting massacred. Also effective vs commanders


But good article, though i may disagree with the economic build up. I'd say a general all round way to build is

Builder, cap, builder, cap, builder, +cap if large map. I personally only use 2 cap squads on normal maps.

Builder one sets 2 plasma gens(1 if you're afraid of a potential rush) and starts building. Note that just setting the gen to build applies the bonus, so it's a win win with cap units also building faster. Builder 2 starts building a barracks, hopefully connected to the two gens for speed boost. Builder 3 starts building listening posts on what cap one has capture so far. Progressively move forward from there, your start up should be safe.


Also, "SM Scouts are particularly strong early on,".

Really? In what context? Vs what units or with what upgrades. I've personally found them to be the most worthless units in game.

Plus if you're looking at them as cheap with their bolter upgrade for decent fire, Weapon servitors can totally ourank them, albeit with the set up time disadvantage. But their melee is even better so not too much of a bother in getting melee'd by furies or the likes.


Obviously just stating my opinions here, but I'm open to a good logical discussion on these points. Cheers :)

Edited by: Catz_Rule

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Ummm....

Feb 5 2017 Anchor

I guess flamers really are a personal choice, i always favored Melta weapons, since they can be used to some degree against vehicles in a tight spot and never had any problems repelling melee squads - my bane was always the artillery.

I'll definitely take into account what you wrote about the build chains, since we all play so different - it's good to get an insight into other build chains.

"SM Scouts are particularly strong early on" -> They always felt particularly strong to me against other Tier 0 cap units, except ofc against conscripts (the reinforce just never ends :D) and commanders. Might be a little biased here, since i played SM and IG the most.

Never really used the servitors, i favor a techmarine with a dedicated melee screen to protect him, but i read a lot about many people using them.

Also, if you have any strategies against commanders (other than "suicide a squad and/or focus fire him down), they would be appreciated!

Also thanks for your input, appreciate it a lot!


Catz_Rule
Catz_Rule Uhhh....
Feb 6 2017 Anchor

Hmmm. very odd. Scouts vs furies, scouts lose. Scouts vs Cultists, scouts lose. Scouts vs scarabs, the scarabs never die. Scouts vs missinory, scouts lose. Scouts vs mandrakes....and so on.

I've personally never noticed scouts to be able to match up to literally ANYTHING. Hoped you could change my mind.

Say, what weapons do you upgrade your scouts with?

Anti commander, One squad on suicide, one squad with flamers as close as possible. Flamers seem very effective vs early tier units and unupgraded commanders.

Otherwise, best thing is just another commander, or a mech.

If playing necrons, one flayed squad on suicide, THEN move in one or two wraiths to deal high damage.

Tau, just use the Kroot Shapers, REALLY good.

Daemons, I've personally found their commander to be the best, with healing, abilities, cost and upgrades. All he needs to do is tank while the command horror squad wreaks havoc.

And for sisters, seraphims are currently able to kill a commander 1v1 without losing a model. :|

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Ummm....

Feb 7 2017 Anchor

Mostly i used shotguns or bolters. Really, scarabs? I never had a problem with them, cultists always ended in an ugly draw.

I use to kite a lot, maybe that makes a difference.


Catz_Rule
Catz_Rule Uhhh....
Feb 8 2017 Anchor

Seems like a lot of effort to make a unit viable. But i guess t makes sense....somehow.

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Ummm....

Mar 27 2017 Anchor
ThorusGER wrote:


- Generators speed up production and research speed of adjacent buildings, Nuclear Generators even more, to a great degree.


Does this stack? (two generators better than one) and does it affect resource production on HQs?

Catz_Rule
Catz_Rule Uhhh....
Apr 5 2017 Anchor

Yes it does stack, But i don't think it affects resource income.

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Ummm....

Mar 18 2018 Anchor

Please tell me what the hell jammed my nuclear weapon facility and basilisk platform. It led to space marines spamming me with satellite particle beams. I had no idea what to destroy. It was Tau vs Space Marines.

Aug 5 2018 Anchor

The Space Marine Deep Strike Beacon has an end-game add-on that jams super-weapons. When they do that, it should be revealed on your mini-map.

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