Piracy, and all that other stuff. Thread

What are your feelings on things like the free software movement, international computer raids, bitTorrent, and everything else related? Where is this all headed, is all of it doomed to eventually be prosecuted and get everyone involved thrown in jail? Or are they on to something? I really do want to know what you think. This is a big (and growing) part of cyber culture. What's going to happen to it?

Edited by: Bluedrake42

Its simple to me
If piracy keeps growing and growing, less games will be made and those who are being made will be equipped with ever more evil copy protections (why cant I fucking use Process Explorer when I want to play a game with SecuROM?! Its fucking annoying!)
So go buy the games you play
And no, living in a shitty easter european country or asia is no valid excuse for piracy

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Well, piracy is not a valid excuse for DRM or bad sales numbers. A good game (see CoD4) will make the buck, but mediocre ones (Crysis) won't. Make good games, and people WILL buy them.

Piracy is a complex issue, and there's no simple "fix".

I'd like to pretend that I have never pirated anything before, but that would be a blatant lie.
On the other side of the coin, i have ambitions of making it into the games biz, where my paycheck will basically depend on people NOT falling to the very things i myself have done.

The irony.

The main issues i see are these

1. Bulk - The amount of games coming out these days really is staggering. It used to be there was a respectable flow of games coming out, doing new stuff all the time. At the moment, there are rip offs OF rip offs, movie tie ins, shovelware to the extreme. And then there's a huge number of "just mediocre" games stuck in the middle. Are people really expected to pay for this stuff, given how much competition there is? and ESPECIALLY when you factor in my next point.

2. Pricing - Games are WAY too pricey. and they're like that because the development costs are sky high. I could go off on a rant here about the need to reduce the bloat and move interest away from the Halos of the world, and over to low cost indie games, but i feel like i'd be kicking a dead horse. The bottom line though? I'm not going to pay $10 for a fallout 3 expansion that adds 2 hours of mediocre gameplay. If I feel the need to play, i'm going to pirate it. That's how my brain is wired to work. I expect other people (those without endless cash flows) make similar judgement calls.

That having been said, i did buy the original fallout 3 (on steam). In fact, all of my purchases are now done on steam. I can't even recall the last time i went to a store to buy a game. You ge these weird sweaty assholes breathing down your neck asking you if "you are looking for something in particular" and trying to strike up conversation about Metal Gear. It's like....fuck you man, i'm just browsing. Browsing your overpriced games that i could be getting 50% cheaper through online distribution.....

Piracy is indeed a more complicated problem. The "people who choose to steal rather than buy" mentality is the same that led to the DRM issues. Watch this video, to get a more complete image on piracy and how to beat it:
Thepiratesdilemma.com
Quite interesting, don't you think?As for the masses of garbage games priced at 50 bucks , you're spot on.

Edited by: Herr_Alien

Good watch. Thank you for that

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I'll second that video as a great watch. Pop!tech is now a bookmark. Check this one out too: Poptech.org

Edited by: Metafiz

As Mr. Kadish said above, it is a complex issue. I don't think piracy is right. But at the same time, I think that a lot of people feel forced into a corner in regards to it.

I remember a time where practically every game had a demo. It was a great way not only to see if you liked a game, but also if it ran on your computer. These days, I find demo's for games harder to find. Don't get me wrong, there are demo's - just not to the same degree. Over in Ireland, I'm not sure about the rest of the world - game shops now run the policy that once you buy the PC game - that is it. You can't bring it back if it doesn't work. You are expected to know if your game will run it.

So, without the demo, there is no way to be sure if it runs. I for one wouldn't waste forty-odd Euro on a game that might not work. So, that has seen my PC buying decline in recent years. Something that people don't get is - unlike consoles, PC's are often unique. What works on one computer might not necessarily work in the same way on the other. I've had games where I easily cleared the recommended requirements, and they refused to work. If I knew a game would work fine and dandy on my machine, I would definitely pick up a few newer titles. There can be a 20-30 Euro price difference in favour of the PC game versus that of the PS3 (the household console) over here.

Who seriously wants an expensive mat to prop your glass on! That is my thinking. Like I said, I don't think piracy is right, but a lot more could be done to entice people back to the table.

Wow, Kadish your words are like my thoughts...
Creepy shit...

omayksilo wrote: These days, I find demo's for games harder to find. Don't get me wrong, there are demo's - just not to the same degree.

Yeah like having to buy L4D in order to play the demo. hahaha

Edited by: Bluedrake42

I was in France, in Nice for one of the rare jobs, where the writer is actually needed on set. The company had rent somerich guys villa to take the shots for the scene. This guy had a 10 Million house, three or four cars, high-end Stereo...and next to it about 300 burned CDs full off music. He wasn't there at the time, but I thought: what the hell - how can he have millions of dollars and be too tight-arsed to buy a few records.

If piracy is "used" to grab overpriced software to improve ones' skills, I support it. So if it's generally about getting better information or about getting ahead with your ideas and project, I don't see anything wrong with it. When success comes and you start a business, you'll most likely buy the full version of a program they wouldn't have sold to you, if you didn't pirate it first.
In fact, piracy can give the user some quality control. When I played the ArmA demo, it wasn't enough for me, so I pirated the game and thought it was so great that I wanted to buy it - and I did.
So, in the end, I really get to decide what I want to put on my shelves and I never fall for the hype of any game. What I think is sad, is when millionaires arepirating just for their own pleasure. Cheapskate collecting and amassing things just because they are free is a psychological illness, and a lot of people don't know where to stop. Some people pirate so much they don't even get to enjoy the stuff they have, they just keep collecting.

stenchy wrote: I'll second that video as a great watch. Pop!tech is now a bookmark. Check this one out too: Poptech.org

Yeah, saw that one too . There are several good popcasts, there's also one on the financial crisis, but I'll let you guys find that one
Anyway, regardless of how to handle piracy, a game publisher should know that a good product WILL sell. No matter how much you pirate it, there will be enough buyers to fill the bank accounts, but only if the product is good. Read this for an example:
Longtail.com
It was quite a surprise for me as well.

Video.google.com
Check this out =D

Edited by: Bluedrake42

He he he ... sweet!

Piracy kicks ass.

That's useful to know, cos now I can call you an asshole, safe in the knowledge that your opinions and retorts are completely and utterly worthless

lmfao @ Gibberstein

I believe in what both Kadesh and SinKing believe.

Piracy as a whole isn't great because the majority of users who actaully do pirate anything, only pirate because they're either lazy or cheap bastards while the other roughly 8% I'd have to admit I, myself, fall into.

I consider it more as a resource than simple piracy. I'm a modder.. nuff said. I'm sure I don't need to explain that.

Also, I totally agree with omayksilo as well as have seen this decline over the years of any playable demos for games. The most important part of no demos is the realization with the evident incline of the use of CD-Keys; almost every major video-game retailer does not let the consumer return the game, regardless of whether or not it works because of the unque CD-Key. What's worse is that the only compromise I've seen that may challenge the return policies of these outlets is returning the title in unopened condition.

What's the use of that!? If you don't open it, you don't know if it works for your computer. Why? because there wasn't a demo released to test it. Even worse is there being a demo that works, but the gold-release doesn't. And worse than that is a game displaying specs that are within your computers' technical limits, somethimes then-some, and STILL not working. That's just crap. I believe all of this is good enough reason to "pirate" titles.

If you put it to good use, or can make yourself more productive because of it or otherwise, then I don't see a problem with it.

Consider this: If you're a modder or a digital [insert classification here] major in school or just someone looking to see if it even WORKS on your computer, and you download a copy of the game for whatever use need be, then is it really the company losing money if it doesn't run, or doesn't help you in any way? It's simply as if you never bought it in the first place. You were simply using it as a basis to learn modding or mod, or to see if it runs or just see if you want to actaully buy it.

That's why, I believe, it's not bad at all if you're at least using it for constructive purposes. Otherwise: HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA at the idea that pirating will decline video-game production.

People who pirate for personal gain are assholes (+1 Gibberstein)

Edited by: SeCALPHA1

"Piracy is a complex issue, and there's no simple "fix".

I'd like to pretend that I have never pirated anything before, but that would be a blatant lie.
On the other side of the coin, i have ambitions of making it into the games biz, where my paycheck will basically depend on people NOT falling to the very things i myself have done"

the above is a quote from kandish guy.

Same here, may have downloaded a game before off the internet (which didnt work ) and im also quite the guy for modding games leagily and im also into programming pro advanced batch files and hope to get to C++, im also taking a course soon on game development for 5 years.

i've been into the hacking/modification business since i was 10 years old.
i admit i have knowledge on ip addresses that 90% of people on the internet won't know, without any programs but cmd alone i can find out someone's exact location with their ip, i also know how to get someones ip via hotmail,msn,sites,domains but that is quite basic, the advanced is learning the exact ip location- although now i've heard websites do it for you if u type in ip but cmd alone manually is much more powerful, which i normally would'nt use unless someones pissed me off and im asking some guy from perth, australia if he'd been to australia and if he'd bin to perth and watch him freak out, then his age and home address, but i'm all clean unless some dudes somehow did somin that i strictly asked not to.

-John-

Edited by: RobJohnB95

i must say i've also pirated some games, but most of the time only because of the fact that you are paying ~50€ for a game, and then you will play it. 6 game ours later.... GAME FINISHED. So normally I download the games via torrent or rapidshare and if the game is worthy...I will buy it later on.

@John
90% of the people on the internet don't know what DNS,IP,TCP,UDP,... are

I guess majority of people at least once pirated something being it know knowingly or not. The reasons therefore have been already laid out in this topic already so no need to rehash them. Every action has a reaction ( physics ) so all DRM mechanisms put into place provoke an equal reaction. Developers and publishers should once think about that. People don't like being put in handcuffs labeled "potential pirate" although being legit users. First step would be to drop DRM to get back those disgruntled by this. You can not stop real pirates with DRM anyways so why loose customers with something that has no effect in the long run?

@core| Greenberet

thats wat i said, mainly

@DJ Ready

Are You Saying The Brits Arn't Capible Or "Shitty People" In Other Words?
Explain To Me Why Are Countries Are Well, Shit?
And Also Explain Why Half The Population In America Want To Move To European Private Countries, Some Being Celebs Wanting Peace

RobJohnB95 wrote: @DJ Ready

Are You Saying The Brits Arn't Capible Or "Shitty People" In Other Words?
Explain To Me Why Are Countries Are Well, Shit?
And Also Explain Why Half The Population In America Want To Move To European Private Countries, Some Being Celebs Wanting Peace

He said eastern European, which doesn't even include Britain. And he meant that being poor or unprivileged in some way isn't a reason to pirate things.

Jyffeh wrote:

RobJohnB95 wrote: @DJ Ready

Are You Saying The Brits Arn't Capible Or "Shitty People" In Other Words?
Explain To Me Why Are Countries Are Well, Shit?
And Also Explain Why Half The Population In America Want To Move To European Private Countries, Some Being Celebs Wanting Peace

He said eastern European, which doesn't even include Britain. And he meant that being poor or unprivileged in some way isn't a reason to pirate things.

ah, well im not good with jermaken american mexican eastern western southern eurpoeans americans and all those weird names, next time how about the countries' name?

sorry for that, mistakes eh

If you listed the countries covered by 'eastern europe', you'd have a list about twenty countries long, that will be out-of-date in a few months time when the next merge/split/rename happens

torrent/gnutella users have created their own little economy with new ideals that is clashing with the status quo economy and ideals ...

Even if all the pirated files were taken off those networks, they would still be under attack by the current system because its too hard to compete with free ...

But you really can't ignore the fact that there is illegally copied data floating around ... so yea, they're guilty ... but i still wonder what will happen if anti-piracy measures succeed ...

so yea, its definitely not as black and white as the companies want you to think ...