Stiivais' stealth fixes for Misery 2.0 (tutorial). Thread - MISERY mod for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat

Edit #2: here is the downloadable version of my latest Stealth fix + NPC accuracy tweak package:

The main post:


I had to post it as an image because MODDB forums are terrible and repeatedly refuse me any chances at formatting the post. If you wish to view the text version of the post, go here: Pastebin.com

Edit: Forgot what the link for sound editing was. >_<
I remember that you needed SDK for that, anyways.

Edited by: Stiivais

EDIT: Just saw your edit, I would have liked to see that sound editing link. What site was it on, by the way? Maybe I could search for it.

Thanks for this, I'll tweak my values and see if I can get a good balance.

Edited by: uberhen

uberhen wrote: EDIT: Just saw your edit, I would have liked to see that sound editing link. What site was it on, by the way? Maybe I could search for it.
Thanks for this, I'll tweak my values and see if I can get a good balance.

Found something here: Sdk.stalker-game.com
I guess that at this point it is as good as it gets, anyways, the parameters you would be interested (in the SDK) would be "Max AI Dist" (for stealth) and possibly Max Dist (if you plan on adding new sounds).

I didn't see this post before I have posted my tweaks here: Moddb.com

---------------------
Still there is problem with stealth, so I have also tweaked file "actor.ltx", changed values:
transparency_threshold = 0.4;0.9 ; (second number is misery value)
still_visible_time = 5000;15000;

And I have changed values in "m_stalker.ltx"
[stalker_vision_free]
max_view_distance = 0.8 ;2.00
visibility_threshold = 80;180.0
velocity_factor = 1.12 ;2.12 ;Higher value = greater bonus to detection speed when target is moving
luminocity_factor = 0.95 ;0.46 ;Low value = easier to see at night[stalker_vision_danger]
max_view_distance = 1.2 ;2.00
visibility_threshold = 40 ;160.0
velocity_factor = 1.12 ;2.12
luminocity_factor = 0.46
...
eye_range = 100 ;150 ;
max_ignore_distance = 50.0 ;100.0;After that bandits have less chance to detect you, but they still have laser eye accuracy, and that means you better have samo decent armor when they spots you.
I do not take any credits for this, I just compared values from Stalker Complete Mod without deeper knowlage of behaviour.All of this requires a lot more of testing and changing values, but I think that is good direction for tweaking.

Values for sound is the same in misery and in complete mode, so I did not change that.
[stalker_sound_perceive]
weapon = 2; 0.75; 10 ęîýôôčöčĺíň óńčëĺíč˙ ďđčîđčňĺňŕ\ńčëű çâóęŕ
item = 0.5; ęîýôôčöčĺíň óńčëĺíč˙ ďđčîđčňĺňŕ\ńčëű çâóęŕ
npc = 1;1;2 ęîýôôčöčĺíň óńčëĺíč˙ ďđčîđčňĺňŕ\ńčëű çâóęŕ
anomaly = 0.0; ęîýôôčöčĺíň óńčëĺíč˙ ďđčîđčňĺňŕ\ńčëű çâóęŕ
world = 0.2; ęîýôôčöčĺíň óńčëĺíč˙ ďđčîđčňĺňŕ\ńčëű çâóęŕ

Comments are probably in russian, but I can not even to google translate that, so I do not have a clue what to change here.
Bandits still can hear your footsteps and gunshots and go to sound source to investigate, but they need more time to visualy detect you and fire on you. With this setings they are still able to detect you above 80 m and when they start shouting they are accurate, so there is still chalange in battles.

Edited by: kcs123

Are you sure about this?
transparency_threshold = 0.4;
Lower value means that they see you easier through bushes.

Also, visibility_threshold shouldn't be so low, since now they will only shoot at you from closer distances... :/

As for the comments: change the encoding in Notepad++ to Cyrillic > Windows-1251 (then you will see clear russian symbols).

For now, my tweak should be decent...

Edited by: Stiivais

OK - first of all - as noted earlier, its great to know that our work is inspiring for ppl like to look for better solutions. This is basically what modding is all about and gratz for the effort taken.

Now - technical stuff:

Generally I'd like to point out that visibility_treshold is the most important param for 'end editing' - ie. when you have all of the other params set and balanced (and I would claim that they are balanced in v2.0) - you use visibility_treshold as a 'final multiplier' to how NPCs are gonna react on all distances and conditions.

In order to make NPCs less pereceptive (reacting slower) you rise the visibility_treshold.

Very good idea to tweak visibility in general is enabling the vanilla HUD temporarly - which has 'visibility bar' present next to the minimap. You will notice how visibility bar rises when you start to be visible and falls dow when you hide. Now the params actually control the behaviour of this bar:
time_quant - how fast the bar goes up
decrease_value - how fast it falls down
visibility_treshold - how high the bar has to go up in order for the object to be considered 'visible' by NPC (but setting it too low also allows to notice you thru walls, bushes and in darkness - so it can 'override' everything else)

The rest of the params modify the speed of bar rising and 'treshold' requirment depending on conditions: for ex. velocity_factor lowers the treshold if observed object is moving.

Now there are two things that are the most tricky in this system:

- night vision - I sincerely advice to equip yourself with various night-vision upgrades to your helmets and set the NPC vision while using them. This is because if you set NPC vision to 'feel ok' without player having a night-vision on him and player then purchases the night-vision - he becomes the 'night god' being able to spot and kill everyone without retaliation.
For this reason - NPC perception at nights in Misery v2.0 only makes sense if you consider that NPCs are also using night-vision sets and if you approach them without one - they will purposely have very big advantage over you. I have literally attacked certain 'test' NPC squads and set the vision until I felt that we have 'even chances' at spotting each other.
Also note that it gets even more tricky as players may use different monitors or brightness setting in-game - and this has to be taken into account and some degree of tolerance has to be established.

- distance vision - always test your updated settings versus a group of NPCs which is far away from you. If you modify certain values incorectly you may introduce the situation where player armed with long-range sniper rifle again becomes a 'god' being able to attack NPCs at long distances without any sort of response from them. This imbalances the whole gameplay a lot as sniper rifles become severly op.
Current AI scripts which we have do not support any sort of 'hide from fire' behaviour (as in FarCry 2 for ex.) - so this is beyond our reach. NPCs can either engage their enemy or remain idle.
From above two options I prefered allowing them to engage enemy regardless of distance so that there is no way for 'free kills' just because you're shooting from beyond their maximum perception range.
Also - for reason unknown the 'luminocity_factor' should teoretically only control vsion at nights - however it also affects distance combat a lot. Rise it too much - and your NPCs will not be able to attack you at longe range regardless of other settings (as if distance object appeared 'darker' to them).

OK - above some friendly advice regarding what to look at.

Btw - got your prv - thx - will respond as soon as I have a window of opportunity.

Good luck with everything!

Cheers!

Edited by: trojanuch

trojanuch wrote: ...

Wow. This guy...
...this guy really cares.

It is just copy-paste that from Stalker - Complete mod, and there is difference between "actor.ltx" and "m_stalker.ltx" values.
in "actor.ltx" is
transparency_threshold = 0.4;

in "m_stalker.ltx"
transparency_threshold = 0.96;

However, transparency_threshold is not only variable taken into account if bandits can shot at you from very close or far distance.
With above settings bandits still can see me throgh bushes, and can shot at me from far distances, but all this requiers further testings.

I will like to try diferent settings on sound behavior, but for testing purpose that requiers player noise level indicator on the HUD.Firs I need to figure out how to put hat back, and then do some tweaking. I do not know which settings will be better in coresponding with other AI scripts. I need more info about all variables taken in account to AI detection and behaviour. (Player stance, distance, player noise level, overall bulkines (armour, backpack weight))

kcs123 wrote: I will like to try diferent settings on sound behavior, but for testing purpose that requiers player noise level indicator on the HUD.Firs I need to figure out how to put hat back, and then do some tweaking. I do not know which settings will be better in coresponding with other AI scripts. I need more info about all variables taken in account to AI detection and behaviour. (Player stance, distance, player noise level, overall bulkines (armour, backpack weight))

Agreed, also, i would kill for the little dot reticle indicating if someone is a friend or a foe (changing colors).

Stiivais wrote: Agreed, also, i would kill for the little dot reticle indicating if someone is a friend or a foe (changing colors).

Hmm, maybe via upgrades from binoculars, helmet or some other items, and only for friendly NPC, enemy and neutral should stay white.
Having no clue if someone is neutral or enemy keeps you on alert, but friendly NPC could give you their PDA code or something for their safety.
With all mutants and bandits around, they do not need to be killed from friendly fire

trojanuch , thanks for info. Can you tell us how to get back HUD visibility and sound indicator ? What files we need to change ? I need it only for testing purpose.

I wold like to try to accomplish is that while enemy is not alerted, you can sneak close to them by taking cover and timing your move from cover to cover, but in the same time that when they are alerted, they could spot and fire from big distances.

Maybe we could use diferent "m_stalker.ltx" files for enemies with NVG and enemies without NVG, so there will be more enemy variations and behaviours.
I do not know if this is possible due to engine limitations, and will require a lot rework in spawn scripts.

kcs123 wrote:

Stiivais wrote: Agreed, also, i would kill for the little dot reticle indicating if someone is a friend or a foe (changing colors).

Hmm, maybe via upgrades from binoculars, helmet or some other items, and only for friendly NPC, enemy and neutral should stay white.
Having no clue if someone is neutral or enemy keeps you on alert, but friendly NPC could give you their PDA code or something for their safety.
With all mutants and bandits around, they do not need to be killed from friendly fire

trojanuch , thanks for info. Can you tell us how to get back HUD visibility and sound indicator ? What files we need to change ? I need it only for testing purpose.

I wold like to try to accomplish is that while enemy is not alerted, you can sneak close to them by taking cover and timing your move from cover to cover, but in the same time that when they are alerted, they could spot and fire from big distances.

Maybe we could use diferent "m_stalker.ltx" files for enemies with NVG and enemies without NVG, so there will be more enemy variations and behaviours.
I do not know if this is possible due to engine limitations, and will require a lot rework in spawn scripts.

Well, more profiles are certainly possible, but you are correct about reworking.
The good part is, however, that you could also make the AI model have NVGs, for immersion purposes (so you can predict how they will react).

However, i completely disagree about your thoughts on the reticle: there is NO way of knowing if someone will be agressive towards you. Say, you want to trade some stuff with the NPCs, but how are you going to tell which ones will attack you and which will trade? That's the problem

Stiivais wrote:
However, i completely disagree about your thoughts on the reticle: there is NO way of knowing if someone will be agressive towards you. Say, you want to trade some stuff with the NPCs, but how are you going to tell which ones will attack you and which will trade? That's the problem

It's simply - by playing the game. Bandits fraction have similar outfits, Duty fraction have some parts of armour colored in red, while Freedom fraction have green marks on outfits. If you can not say for sure that someone is an enemy or neutral you will think twice are you going to trade with him or not, mimics real life, you will never know, so take your chances.

You can allways make some noise by shoting in air whiile you are still far away from NPC to alert them. And if they are friendly enough they will not shot back.

Conversely, if you know for sure that someone is friend, you will not shot first and ask question later. And you know for sure that you can trade with him.
Putting back IFF from vanilla will take out one of survival feel feature from the mod.

Edited by: kcs123

kcs123 wrote:

Stiivais wrote:
However, i completely disagree about your thoughts on the reticle: there is NO way of knowing if someone will be agressive towards you. Say, you want to trade some stuff with the NPCs, but how are you going to tell which ones will attack you and which will trade? That's the problem

It's simply - by playing the game. Bandits fraction have similar outfits, Duty fraction have some parts of armour colored in red, while Freedom fraction have green marks on outfits. If you can not say for sure that someone is an enemy or neutral you will think twice are you going to trade with him or not, mimics real life, you will never know, so take your chances.

You can allways make some noise by shoting in air whiile you are still far away from NPC to alert them. And if they are friendly enough they will not shot back.

Conversely, if you know for sure that someone is friend, you will not shot first and ask question later. And you know for sure that you can trade with him.
Putting back IFF from vanilla will take out one of survival feel feature from the mod.

You make a fair point, dear sir, but i am too stubborn for being reasonable:
buuut its sooooo haaaard, it, like, totally makes me thiiiink. BOO! YOU WANT ME TO USE MY BRAINS? WHO DO YOU THINK I AM? SOME KIND OF NERD???

But seriously, it would be nice to at least have the knowledge of HOW to toggle this.

Edited by: Stiivais

Stiivais wrote:
... BOO! YOU WANT ME TO USE MY BRAINS? WHO DO YOU THINK I AM? SOME KIND OF NERD???

But seriously, it would be nice to at least have the knowledge of HOW to toggle this.

Playing game like this mod have some positive side effect - like using a brain from time to time
Seriously, I understand your point of view, the game is realy hard, in current state I spend more time watching the loading screen then actualy playing the game.

I am testing decribed settings around waste plant playing as sniper class by doing Owl's take info from mercenaries quest. I have killed few mercs from distance, at least I was thinking that I killed them. By killing the first merc I have alerted whole squad. They try to find me, flank me etc. There is no need to explain what was happened when some of them spoted me. After couple of F9 key somhow I managed to reach pipes under the waste plant. Luckily for me as at he time I reched pipes, the blowout starts. After the blowout I have sneaked in the plant - it was empty, I have take the PDA and laptop in easy way. On the way out I have spoted mercs - they were near my first shoting spot trying to find me and they are begining to change from alerted to relax state. While they are coming back at the plant I have sneaked on the oposite side to esceape.

OK, that was easy, so I decided to play cat and mouse game with them. I have shoted few of 4-5 of them and go again on the oposite side of plant while they started to hunt me. What a mistake, I barely managed to escepe. Again in the process I need to press F9 several times. So, OK it was nic I will not shot them again, but I will try to reach to few bodies and take hard earned loot.

Again, another FUBAR - there is no bodies. From distance I saw about 7 merc returning to base in relaxed state, obviously they were not dead, only incapacitated and some of mercs healed them.
However I have a nice gaming expirience.

So, at least I have some slim chance to sneak by them when they are unalerted. For me those settings were close for better gaming expirience.
I wold like to change
time_quant - how fast the bar goes up
decrease_value - how fast it falls down

I want to goes up slower and also going down slower, but only when enemy is in relaxed unalerted mode.

I would also like to try to tweak stamina/speed/stance behavior of actor and other creatures.
Something that has not been seen in other games/mods. Regarding the actor stance/speed I would like to have something like this:
1.) Stand up/Sprintig/Loudest/Highest energy consumption / Most visible
2.) Stand up/Runing/Loud/High energy consumption / Most visible
3.) Stand up/Walking/Normal sound volume/Lowest energy consumption / Most visible
4.) Crouched/Runing/Quiet/Highest energy consumption / Less visible
5.) Low Crouched/Walking/Quietest/low energy consumption / Least visible

That would be fair compromise in sneaking vs guning/runining.
My point of view is not to make game more easy or harder to play, but to make more interesting to play.

Someone wrote: On the way out I have spoted mercs - they were near my first shoting spot trying to find me and they are begining to change from alerted to relax state. While they are coming back at the plant I have sneaked on the oposite side to esceape.

Enjoing discussion here guys :)

One remark:

Someone wrote: On the way out I have spoted mercs - they were near my first shoting spot trying to find me and they are begining to change from alerted to relax state. While they are coming back at the plant I have sneaked on the oposite side to esceape.

If you have IEDs or mines on you can mine the shit out of the place - then let them come for a nice suprise >>> kill the remnants. As far as I go there is nothing more satisfactionary.

----

Nice to hear the you're applying the flanking / changing position tactics - this is exacly what I wanted to encourage so badly as imho there are few games in which it is more fun than in Stalker.

Edited by: trojanuch

trojanuch wrote:
Enjoing discussion here guys :)

If you have IEDs or mines on you can mine the shit out of the place - then let them come for a nice suprise >>> kill the remnants. As far as I go there is nothing more satisfactionary.
----
Nice to hear the you're applying the flanking / changing position tactics - this is exacly what I wanted to encourage so badly as imho there are few games in which it is more fun than in Stalker.

I'm glad thet you devs pay attention to our posts, and yes I have similar opinion regarding IEDs or mines, unfortunately I did not have any, I'm planing to requip myself with better equipment and go back there. I have attacked them with m1891 sniper rifle with 20 7.62x54 ammo , SPAS12 with 40 buckshots, 2 grenades, light coat and gasmask with NVG.

With more ammo some mines, and proper use of flanking / changing position tactics I probably could win the fight. It is chalanging but not impossible.
Earning money trough exploits to be able to buy and upgrade armour and become bulletproof like M1A1 abrams only to be able to kill 5-7 mercs is not fun for me.
I rather like more to have oportunity to outsmart them with proper use of cheap equipment and tactics than I need top class expencive equipment to beat them.

I hope that you devs understand why the players want tweaking in stealth area of game aspect and that you include some of them in next patches. With better knowlage of scripts you could deliver us even better solutions. I admire your work so far, you have done realy great job with misery and inspiring me with a lot of new ideas.
I know how much time and tedious testing is needed over and over again to found satisfactory solution in all aspects of the game

Unfortunately I do not have a lot spare time and lacking skills in some areas of moding, but I will try to give you and comunity constructive feedback to polish this already great mod. This is at least what I can do to say thanks for this mod.

I'm aware that some things requires a lot of additional work and you also do not have a time for all stuff that comunity wants to include in the game, but it would be a shame that you leave this mod unpolished it have realy great potential.

Hey Stiivais!
If you want here's a little program to edit .ogg files
(As you're one of the guy trying to improve stealth system)

It may be useful to tweak the range of sound detection of AI. There's a line especially for that in .ogg comments
I tried some modifications especially about suppressed sounds of handguns. But it needs alot of tests/tweaks and unfortunately I don't have alot of time right now so I leave this here for you.

I think it could be a key to fix the stealth system related to sounds of bodies hitting the ground/screams/shots ect...

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Sound Attribute Viewer and Tweaker @ Metacognix.com

Cheers! Keep us up to date your tweaks are really nice though

Cybersemtex wrote: Hey Stiivais!
If you want here's a little program to edit .ogg files
(As you're one of the guy trying to improve stealth system)
It may be useful to tweak the range of sound detection of AI. There's a line especially for that in .ogg comments
I tried some modifications especially about suppressed sounds of handguns. But it needs alot of tests/tweaks and unfortunately I don't have alot of time right now so I leave this here for you.
I think it could be a key to fix the stealth system related to sounds of bodies hitting the ground/screams/shots ect...
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Sound Attribute Viewer and Tweaker @ Metacognix.com
Cheers! Keep us up to date your tweaks are really nice though

Thanks a lot, but i won't be checking the stuff out today: having this many revisions in one day can cause headaches, i'll let people download the current versions first before diving head into this software.

As for keeping up to date, i am currently attempting to tweak the armor values, so they degrade in decent speeds (helmets last waaay longer than suits o_0). We'll see how this goes. ^^

A little feedback after patch 2.0.1

Original misery mod have made progress in sound part area, but for for eye detection it is preaty much the same as before. I was to lazy to make my own modification again, so I have take newest Stiivais modification. Great job with accuracy thing Stiivais, ememies are still dangerous as before, but they more likely hit you in the chest or other parts of the body than in the head. And they throw grenades close but not directly on your spot. I like the way you tweaked this.

I would like to change some things for detection in relaxed state of NPC. I disagree with trojanuch with this:

Someone wrote:
- night vision
- distance vision
From above two options I prefered allowing them to engage enemy regardless of distance so that there is no way for 'free kills' just because you're shooting from beyond their maximum perception range.

I want to actor be able to make at least one 'free kill' mimics the suprise attack. So in general I want to make NPC detect actor slower, but also want to once they see something suspisous stay alerted much more longer. With night/distance vision in relaxed state I want to mimic the fact that NPC want to conserve batteries for NVG so they have turned off their NVG. Also distance detection should be a lower in the relaxed state of NPC mimics that they do not pay much attention to details to spot danger and they do their boring patrol routes only for commander not yell at them.

To conpensate this for game balance purpose I would like to visibilty bar go down much slower mimics fact when NPC spots something suspisious they pay more attention for details in environment looking for enemy/danger. Also have to change how fast NPC will change their state from relaxed to Alerted/combat state.

There shold be three NPC state relaxed/alerted/combat state. Once NPC is alerted they should be in alerted state for long time, and if they spot enemy they should switch to combat state fast and attack target. If NPC not spot the enemy for long time then they are allowed to go back in relaxed state.
But I think that game have only two states relaxed and combat state.

In alerted/combat state NPC should have high perception and be higly dangerous, spoting like in original misery, but with accuracy from stiivais mod.

Stealthy players should keep in mid that NPC is also alerted with fact that they are seen dead body, no meter how silently player kill him. And option to drag the body out of sight is not working for me it always opens loot inventory. It was possible in SoC, but I'm not sure for CS and CoP if they worked at all.

And it seems that NPC is more alerted from wepon shot and weapon hit sound type than other type of sounds. I would like to try change sound type for knife hit to something else like item drop or other sound type where NPC is less alerted. That could make risky melee stealth possible.

@kcs
Okay, i will make a version just for you, then...
However i will only tweak the relaxed state values, not add a whole new state.
(because i like current balance as it is, not changing the main patch)

Btw, this is slightly higher on my priority list than the armor fix, since this should be marginally quicker to make.

Edit: Done!
AI now takes a bit less than twice the amount of time to spot you in a relaxed state (depends on the skill level, novices have the worst stats, closest to 2x increase), however the detection "points" decrease 1.5 times slower now. Download: STEALTH + ACCURACY KCS

Edited by: Stiivais

Thanks you are awesome, I did'nt expect such quick response and while I could make my own modification it would take me much more time.
Btw, the link is broken, but I have figured out how to fix it. For anyone interested here is fixed link: Dl.dropboxusercontent.com

kcs123 wrote: Thanks you are awesome, I did'nt expect such quick response and while I could make my own modification it would take me much more time.
Btw, the link is broken, but I have figured out how to fix it. For anyone interested here is fixed link: Dl.dropboxusercontent.com

Fixed my link, now i feel like an idiot. o_0
Must be that Stolichnaya kicking in...

Is it possible to change weapon proficiency for different classes? What files should I be looking at?

gamedata/configs/weapons/*weaponname*.ltx
You could grab the compare plugin for notepad++ and compare the files for different classes under gamedata/class_diversity folder (press alt+d when in notepad++).

Can you upload it again? Download link is not working. Thank you.

Edited by: ycodryn