The nightmare of the 5th Fleet... image - Yuuzhan Vong at War mod for Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption
Behold the Yuuzhan Vong Army! This mod adds the Yuuzhan Vong Race as a playable faction and all units of this era. We are a community of modders working for the greater goal, so anyone who wants to help or support us is welcome!
So, for lack of better words, the 5th Fleet is a complete mess of inconsistencies and fact checking errors. It has proven to be one of the biggest modeling headaches, and I wish to explain why, just so everyone is aware of the efforts we have placed into creating it for everyone.
Originally, the entire 5th Fleet Modernization Program was proposed as a fleet all built off of the same modular hull. Larger ships would have more modules, smaller ships less. This idea, allowed for the ships to be built faster, cost less, and be repaired more easily since they all shared interchangeable parts. The entire fleet was originally concepted to be built off of the Defender-Class Star Destroyer.
Then some one thought up and designed the Nebula Class, and everyone at Star Wars High Command fell in love with this ship. So, they cancelled and scratched the idea of the Defender, and simply stated that all the ships designs were modular pairs, meaning that the entire 5th fleet was built upon pairs, every 2 ships shared the same hull, allowing the great idea to thrive while introducing the new pretty and shiny Nebula.
Sounds good right...? WRONG!!!!! Cracken's Ship Dossier was already published, and it included the Majestic, and Cruiser with different aft and bow components built onto the middle section of the Defender Class, AND they had a sketch of the Endurance, which was entirely built from the Defender with a new bow, and some type of crazy alien head thing...
In Addition to this, the Comics based upon the Vong War started using Cracken's source as canon and started publishing issues that featured the Defender-Class Star Destroyer...
Well, this spawned a good debate until until of the Star Wars Essential Guides published a colorized version of the Nebula-Class, crowning it as the king of the New Republic 5th fleet. The Defender-Class was then officially told to be forgotten about.
EXCEPT FOR THE UGlY Endurance.... (to be continued down below)
The Endurance was finally saved by Fractal Sponge, the brilliant model maker who makes 'better than movies' quality 3D models.
His Endurance looked great, and people fell back in love with the ship, all forgetting the ugly duckling of the original Endurance... but this is where we faced an issue: We don't have Fractal's Models, we have EvilleJedi's models...
EvilleJedi created his Nebula to look like the Star Wars Essential Guide colored illustration. He did an amazing job, but, if the Endurance was built on top of the Hull of EJ's Nebula, it would not look like the Endurance of Fractal Sponge which everyone loves and expects this ship to look like.
The whole premise of the 5th fleet is this share ship hulls, so we needed to do something... Enter: The Rejuvenator
EJ created the Rejuvenator Class Star Destroyer. Wiki depicts the Rejuvenator as a late war attack ship, smaller than the Nebula, used at the very end of the Vong War. There were no picture given.
So, to solve this dilemma, we combined EJ's Rejuvenator with EJ's Nebula, and wish special help from Kharcov, I created the new Endurance which we will show soon. This new hybrid ship is a perfect tie into the Rejuventor Class, making it feel like part of the family.
In addition to all this confusion, we did successfully make the Majestic look like the Defender-Class Carrier (different than the Defender-Star Destroyer which was removed from canon; aren't ships with the same name type designation just fun...), we did make the Sacheen look like Cracken's Ship Dossier Concept and built the Hajen off of it's hull, and also paired the Ferret & Prowler and the Warrior and Agave.
This left some other ships...
We used EJ's Defender-Star Destroyer model and made it into the Proficient-Class Cruiser, a canon ship that was used during the early days of the Vong war, and we made the EJ's Republic-Class Star Destroyer look more like warship and also made the KDY Destroyer into the Republic-Class Cruiser, another canon ship that was used throughout the Vong war
Republic Cruiser: Starwars.wikia.com
Proficient Cruiser: Starwars.wikia.com
The use of EJ's Defender model as the Proficient Class works nicely, since this was an earlier styled warship, and the 5th Fleet was built at corellia shortly after, making the Proficient feel like the archetype of the entire Modernization Program
The only other ship we have not discussed, is the Belarus.
The Belarus was supposed to be next version of Eriadu's Strike Cruiser, but proved to be used less often than other ships due to its less-modular design, thus causing it to be harder to repair and produce.
We will be showcasing the Endurance and Belarus soon, then the 5th fleet will be complete.
It has been a long hard process figuring this all out, but in the end, we think it looks pretty good, and hope you all enjoy our efforts :)
Wait, wait, wait. Does this mean the original Endurance design is going to be thrown under the bus?
That's a shame. I liked EJ's model of it.
Correct, we are following style proposed by FractalSponge
I actually liked the idea of some other mod which I guess is not welcomed to be mentioned here, but which had both designs in the game, even with the same class-name but produced by different notable ship manufacturers, adding the latter's designations to the ships: KDY and the Corellian Engineering Corporation. At least for the sake of ship variety. (Same with the Defender.)
Ultimately one Endurance though may fit better contentually with the modular design and standardisation program, as well as to avoid the unoriginal name recurrences. And AFAIC the one based on the Nebula is definitely the sexier one.
This historic discourse however was quite helpful to finally understand the mess of the 5th and its models and namesakes.
That's a shame. Especially since you found away to include all the other various models such as the original Defender as the Proficient or the old Nebula as the Rejuvenator. The poor Defender-Endurance seems to be left behind.
Well I suppose you could've asked for my Nebula as it's a perfect remake of fractals one, and slapped a hanger on that, would've saved you a lot of time and got you something closer to fractals version ;)
I like EvileJedi's, there is just something special bout it that i really enjoy
I wish EJ would've made his stuff acccourding to Fractals designs and style. Sadly, fractal was way after his time though.
meh I could do better...
jk, I can't even make a square in blender.
Uhm... That's awesome and i can't wait for you guys to finish it. I'm sorry but i was to lazy to read all the text.
I never know what to comment, it always looks like a retard wrote it.
We appreciate all comments, even just the simple 'cool' helps motivate us a long way ;)
My head hurts...
*one brain bleach later*
I'm totally looking forward for the endurance and belarus.
"I'm totally looking forward for the endurance and belarus."
I wish I had some sort of clever tagline or something to reply to this statement...
;)
well it certainly requires endurance to carry on...
Can't wait, been following you guys for a year and a half now and am just in awe with most of your guy's models, not even including the ambition of the scale your thinking on!
*points for pun*
;)
I like fs's models, but I don't like the Endurance model. The problem is that you really can't do a lot with the Nebula-class Hull and still have it look good. The only things that I think would work well would be to add a structure running along the dorsal and ventral spine of the ship, with the ventral attachment being the location of a flight deck and the dorsal attachment being the hanger facilities. Sorta a reverse aircraft carrier. The ventral section could have either 1 massive thru-deck hanger or figure 3 smaller hangers or something like that.
As an aside, I don't like the notion of the Endurance having weaker shields. When you removed the primary gun batteries, you removed a substantial source of power drain. Figure 10 percent power savings over the Nebula. Even with the added stress on the shields from the modified hull, with the power reallocated, the shields should be on par with those of the Nebula, if not stronger.
Nebula has a larger shield generator, this will be evident when the model is seen, it is 1/3 larger than the shield generator of the Endurance in size.
Didn't you already finish the nebula? I recall seeing it a while ago, a moddified EJ ship no?
nebula's been done for awhile, I am making the Endurance-Class Fleet Tender and the Belarus, the last 2 5th fleet ships
So, I'm going to be that guy and ask release date? There is so many times I can play the Thrawns Revenge mod whilst waiting for this and Rise of the Mando's V5.
Seriously though this is going to be my go to EAW mod so keep up the good work
Rise of the mando's is way of, vong is wayer of. TR patch is closest, best to just wait for that.
:'(
I know, shame those three mods have set the bar so high
(before someone mentions RaW I have issues with the AI destroying me with lucrehulcks almost straight away)
Well you can play the vong mod without the vong and the bar set far lower in Alliance. Then again, people seem to enjoy following this more, so perhaps having the bar set high is a pretty good thing.
More good mods out there. Try the Clone Wars mod, Legacy, and not to forget my own ORAW. Those are quite enjoyable.
Yeah, I was being slightly sarcastic, its great that the bar is set so high.
Also I dislike skirmish, GC is my meat and potatoes
You should try Awakenning of the Rebellion, it has some great GC.
Sure, I'll find the download now
we don't approve of 'that guy'...
[Rule #1: A True Fan Never Asks.] ;)
But thank you for the compliments
Fan short of Fanatic is a negative term, and people asking insight into a project is something to be applauded, it shows involvement ;) EXCEPT for that question. Indeed, every mod maker hates that guy.
If I had the time to learn to model and code I would but I don't have the time :/
I appreciate the responses though, so back to modding you two :p
"The entire 5th Fleet Modernization Program was proposed as a fleet all built off of the same modular hull. Larger ships would have more modules, smaller ships less."
or
"...and simply stated that all the ships designs were modular pairs, meaning that the entire 5th fleet was built upon pairs."
So this means next:
nebula star destroyer - endurance fleet tender - rejuvenator star destroyer
proficient cruiser - ?
KDY cruiser - ?
Republic star destroyer - ?
majestic cruiser - ?
+ Endurance and Belarus
+ Sacheen-Class Escort Frigate, Agave-Class Picket Ship, Galactic - Class Battle Carrier Prototype, Ranger - Class Gunship, Defender - Class Assault Carrier, Warrior - Class Gunship, Corona-Class Assault Frigate
I am definitely confused ;) with all two/three stories, ships names and ships look.
Warrior : agave
Ferret : prowler
Sacheen : Hajen
Majestic : defender carrier (light carrier)
Nebula : endurance : rejuvenator
Then there were single ships that were not direct paired, but were still part of the 5th Fleet:
KDY Republic-Class Cruiser
Rendili Republic-Class Star Destroyer
Sullust Liberator
Viscount Star Defender
Mediator-Class Battlecruiser
Corellian Proficient-Class Cruiser
Loronar Belarus Cruiser
KDY Corona
Ranger Gunship
All of these ships have been featured on our previous picture pages, and detailed explanations can be found at wookipedia
The 5th Fleet was founded during the Yeveethan Crisis. Over the years it evolved and changed to incorporate new ships that were better suited to its combat needs.
The New Republic navy was composed of several battle groups, each being a separate fleet. The 5th Battle Group was special, in that if was the trial run for the modernization program. Other battle groups were composed of different types of warships such as dauntless cruisers, corellian destroyers, Bothan cruisers, captured star destroyers and the mon calamari ships
Thanks ;)
Thanks on help ;)
will you made noncanon paire ships for KDY Republic-Class Cruiser and Rendili Republic-Class Star Destroyer, maybe bigger versions of those ships
There is no need, the New Republic fleet is large enough already
Looking at the model for the KDY (Republic) Cruiser, I can't help to be reminded of the Strike Cruiser and its 'bound off'-looking sections.
(Yes! Oil into the fire of confusion.)
PS: Here we go...
Wow those models from FractalSponge look amazing, would love to make a small battle animation with them...
Sadly there are several of such complete canon clusterfucks, where multiple sources contradict each other.
Sure, mostly it's minor errors and it's all fictional so it's not that important, but when you try to create some kind of work based upon these contradicting sources it surely is annoying as hell.
/end canon nazi rant
Glad to see you managed to deal with it though. :D
Cool ;)
"Then some one thought up and designed the Nebula Class, and everyone at Star Wars High Command fell in love with this ship. So, they cancelled and scratched the idea of the Defender"
Actually, I think now the agreed EU-canon is that the Nebula-class Star Destroyer IS the Defender-class Star Destroyer, and that the Defender programme was rolled into and expanded into the New Class programme, from which you then get the Endurance built from the Nebula/Defender frame.
The issue is that the Defender and the Nebula look nothing alike, and share no similar components. The Nebula just 'popped up' out of nowhere.
Don't get me wrong, i love the Nebula design, but the Defender was supposed to be the mainline heavy assault ship, not the Nebula. This is why the Nebula is not included in the Cracken Ship Dossier.
The Nebula design makes particularly sense when considering the NR had Kuat under control. Given that they worked with Kuati engineers, the Nebula passes well as the NR successor to the classic Imperial Star Destroyer design.
Always loved the new class concept and ofcourse Fractal's Nebula and Endurance I just always hated Cracken's ship Dossier. You guys did a great job with what was available. I hope they make the new class a part of the new movies so it can be official canon again and make some better designs for the uglier ships. I would love to see what someone like Fractal could do for the smaller ships.
Yes, it would be very interesting to reinvent the concept, the idea of modular designed warships is very viable and makes sense considering that the NR was strapped for resources and planets were being destroyed left and right.
We tried our best to deliver upon what all star wars fans have been scratching their heads about for years, but a complete revision of all the ships would have been really fun if the only rule was that they all had to share ship parts. It would be similar to how Corellian ships are made, for they are a modular navy, but on a greater scale with sloped armor and Imperial design influences.
One can only hope what the new movies will bring
Ahhh, all this makes my head hurt. The 5th Fleet configuration just gives me a head ache time I think about. Those folks at Disney/Lucasfilm should take a loooooooong look at this page, throw money at these guys, apologize to the fans, and use these ships going forward. You guys are phenomenal!
Thank you, we try our best for our fans :)
"Defender-Class Carrier (different than the Defender-Star Destroyer which was removed from canon; aren't ships with the same name type designation just fun...)"
This gets even better when considering the New Republic apparently referred to its capital ships as 'Star Defenders' rather than 'Star Destroyers', for the Imperial overtones of the latter. ^^
Star war's second bigest flaw is the massive tech and ship developement inconsistencies, which while occasional in mainline material (such as venators being used as battleships in all clone wars stuff, shields only ever being a thing when the plot needs it, and weapons being practically random in their firepower per shot) it becomes a horrific mess in the old EU. Disney's current tech and ship designs are also hideous and or lazy clones of previous ships, resulting in this flaw being propogated and made worse despite the complete makeover starwars could have gotten. The fact that you were able to accomplish what you did with what you have speaks volumes about the creativity of the fanbase vastly outpacing the competence of the actual creators and copyright holders.
You guys are awesome.