Xeno O3 V2 comments Thread - Xenoforce Reborn mod for C&C3: Tiberium Wars

Instead of cluttering up the main page with comments I decided to make this post for people to post their findings here.
I will go over a few things that have already been mentioned.
The Scrin -
I don't think their harvester design can be abused. Harvesters stop harvesting once a player hits it's maximum holdings of tib, and honestly it's hard to see a single base being able to harvest an entire map from one base.
The Motherships are supposed to be Capitol Ships now, Doug wanted the name changed and I obliged in this.
PAC's do detach their fighters but they will ONLY use them against air units, against ground targets it uses it's own weapon. The Pac's air units are not units but more like rounds of ammo that can be destroyed/shot down. I will look at the description to make it clearer.
Harelds and Gunwalkers I will work to fix.
Corruptors suicide now? Didn't realize that, will look.
Planet Cracker never worked for the AI. I took it out because I found people could abuse it. Will make sure it's gone 100% from descriptoin/looks.
Desintigrators, I don't think I'm giving them a Hareld because of the way they work.
Will look to see why the AI won't use the Scrin Superweapon.
Masterminds will not be able to mind control, I will fix this description. It was too easy to abuse.
Will take out the mine button.

Nod -
I will redescribe the Nod powers. Thanks for the heads up

If anyone has any other issues/comments feel free to post it here.

Superweapons are unable to be used by Players as well.
Alright, going to play-test the GDI next.
Edit: Nothing really big to report with GDI. NOD's rocket troops outrange static defenses on the high-ground.
GDI's superweapon is just LOLROFLSTOMP enemy bases. Juggernaut MK4 can base-snipe (Reminds me, their bombard fire-shot is just a standard Juggernaut shot)
Juggernauts being transported are doing so akwardly........
That is all.

Edited by: ARMofORION

I must have messed up the code somewhere with the superweapon on Scrin. Thanks, I'll take a look at it.
As much as I love the Mk4 Juggernaut I think I will have to increase the delay between shots or something, it just seems a bit too powerful (granted it's supposed to be an uber sweet artillery unit and it does qualify for that).
Yea, jug's arn't supposed to be transported by Ox's, now we know why they just look funky doing it lol.

Also there's more:
-Nod Tech Lab:
-After you chose only one Doctrine Upgrade, the Upgrades continues (Note: When the players click all of the Nod Doctrine Upgrades or use CTRL+A, S, D, F, its still effect. But its suppose to choose only one Doctrine)
^ Confused? I've built the Nod Tech Lab, then click all of the Nod Doctrine Upgrade and/or CTRL+A, S, D, F. After 30 seconds, I have it, but the other Nod Doctrine upgrade still keeps going. (Upgrade Progressing)

-Legion Avatar Upgrades button are still unused.

-Nod Raider Buggy EMP Coil Ability button are still unused.

-Why Nod Militant cost is $500 < originally $200 and Nod Rocket is $200 < originally $500.

-GDI's Shrill Kite Sonic Missile just hit a few amount of damage to Scrins Capital Ship. (Needs SKSM damage increased)

-While I was doing gameplay and make replays at Dead Six Map, the game just rarely crashed, because of the Scrin AI.

-Scrin Disintegrator's damage is too high and lethality to infantry and light vehicles and even low Support Structures hit points. (Disintegrator's damage needs to be reduced)

"Juggernauts being transported are doing so awkwardly" You mean if the When GDI Transport(carrying with Juggernaut MK4) is destroyed, then its impossible to capture the J MK4 Husk with an engineer. (Due to In-game Height)

I'll search for some few issues.

Edited by: KiroXeiApex

"You mean if the GDI Transport(carrying with Juggernaut MK4) is destroyed, then its impossible to capture the J MK4 Husk with an engineer." No, just how they stand on top of the Transport
NOD: Doctrine weapons: some don't work.
Legion Sword/Shield needs own descript
AI can random EMP you as NOD
Edit: I find it humorous that a Specialist squad takes less time to build than a Protection squad.
Avatar upgrade buttons still there.

Edited by: ARMofORION

Ultra -

: Nod Tech Lab - I did not know about that, I have never used the ctrl A+S+D+F keyboard shortcuts for the upgrades. I will look into it.

: Legion Avatar - Upgrades should not be visible, will fix that.

: Nod Raider Buggy - Upgrade should not be visible, will fix that.:Militant and Rocket costs - Will look at that, maybe I just got my numbers mixed up? lol.

: Shrill Kite - The missiles on the Shrill Kite are not meant for direct damage, they are wide blast sonic warheads that slow their target down and cause them to be unable to fire for a second after impact. I will look and see if it warrants additional damage on the missiles.

: Juggernaught Mk4 - I actually plan on taking the capture part out because honestly if you did capture a destroyed Mk4 it at the moment turns into a normal and not the Mk4. The hight issue comes back to it not being meant to be transported by the ox carrier.

: Desintegrators damage - I will look at it and see if I put the wrong number in. It happens. :p

ArmofOrion -

NOD Doctrine weapons : Which ones don't work? I need more information.

Legion Sword/Shield : I will fix that, good catch.AI can Random EMP : huh? Do you mean they can randomly use emps against nod or as nod? If it's as nod, nod has an EMP power. If it's against nod, that doesn't make since unless they capture a building that grants the EMP power.

Specialist and Protection squad costs - I will look at it, but keep in mind more go's into the cost of the squad than just the unit itself. Upgrades that they have access to, different powers, size of the squad, all of these things are attempted to be put into the equation when determining cost. However I've been known to put a 0 where a 10 was supposed to be so I will double check.

Edited by: azuza001

Doctrine Homeland's SMG upgrade doesn't work. Doctrine Tiberium Guard's Cyborg hacking doesn't happen. Thats what I can think of off the top of my head.
When the AI is NOD, they can just EMP you through the fog of war.

Edited by: ARMofORION

Ok, I'll look into those as well.
As for the AI using the Nod Powers, well, there isn't much I can do about that. They can use any powers through the Fog of War, thats a basic problem with the overall game. The AI can use any powers wherever it wants. Not sure what the best solution to fix that is.

NOD got an odd superweapon glitch. When I built a Temple of NOD, it kept flickering between 7:01 and 7:00. I think I know the cause, but I am not sure.
Edit: I know the cause. No need for concern.

Scrin A.I. will spam Mastermind out. This is a VERY cheap tactic, as they can wreck bases quickly.

Perhaps make some way to restore squad numbers for veteran squads?

Edited by: ARMofORION

I pretty much see the same things as the rest of the guys above.

Only things I can add:

1. GDI has a chance you can put down a duplicate Watch Tower built from the Crane.

2. GDI AA guns and Legion Avatar minigun have a very strange burst fire method. What I see is random durations of burst fires, and that kind of ruins their damage output, is this intentional?

Something needs to be done about the Scrin Harvesters, I ate all the tiberium in Redzone Rampage in about 10 min and just ROFLstomped the AI because they had no money. My suggestion on balancing that, is to at least slow them down back to normal harvester speed.

Ok, I think I addressed everything that was suggested here. I am uploading a newer version now.
Changes :
GDI -
Juggernaught Mk 4 has had it's fire rate increased from 2 seconds to 5 seconds
Juggernaught Mk 4 should fall to the ground if destroyed in the air during transport. You will not be able to aquire a Mk4 from a husk.
AA Cannons have had their clip reload time dropped from .5s to .1s for continual fire.

NOD -
Specialtist Squad has had it's cost increased to 400/4s from 200/2s
Protection Squad has had it's cost decreased from 500/5s to 400/4s
Temple of Nod will no longer allow for a player to pick more than 1 upgrade
Legion Sword and Shield descriptions have been added.
Legion Avatar no longer shows UN-obtainable upgrades
Buggy no longer shows UN-obtainable power
Power Descriptions have been simplified to have no story input, just a description of what the power does now.

Scrin -
Desintegrators should now get their mastermind leader.
Desintegrators weapon has been fixed to do proper damage (each unit was originally doing the damage the entire squad was intended to do)
Scrin Refinerys can no longer hold 999999 max tiberium, has been reduced to 5000 tiberium max per refinery.
Scrin Harvesters have been returned to normal for now until we can determine if there is a fair way to do the original idea without it being abused.
Scrin Corruptor has been fixed so it doesn't think it's only attack is it's on death attack (how did that happen?)
Scrin Superpower now works. (Black Hole has been removed, only power is now the localized Ion Storm)
Scrin Mastermind squad has been increased on price so it should no longer be as easy to spam them.

Link to mod will be updated as soon as the upload is done.

Edited by: azuza001

You know you guys make me laugh. The scrin economy is just fine. It was set up
the way it should be set up. I love how people want to cry about the scrin and
there harvester but they didn’t say a damn thing about the earth feddies and
their supply drops. Last time I checked those were unlimited. So I will tell
you what lets be far about this. Will put a cap on the EF resource intake. We make
make it so that the ef player must build silos. Just to be completely far about
it we can make it so the ef player must to the supply line as an upgrade per
power plant like every other force has to upgrade their power plants. Don’t forget
that abuse cuts both ways.

Mediafire.com

Its not that it's unfair Doug, what they are saying is it's too easy for a PLAYER to exploit it and shut down an enemy by just building tons of refineries in their own base and then sitting back and watching. It allows a Scrin player to be WAY too passive, after testing it I agreed I was able to win by just sitting there and waiting for the end to come.

Dougbendo wrote: You know you guys make me laugh. The scrin economy is just fine. It was set up
the way it should be set up. I love how people want to cry about the scrin and
there harvester but they didn’t say a damn thing about the earth feddies and
their supply drops. Last time I checked those were unlimited. So I will tell
you what lets be far about this. Will put a cap on the EF resource intake. We make
make it so that the ef player must build silos. Just to be completely far about
it we can make it so the ef player must to the supply line as an upgrade per
power plant like every other force has to upgrade their power plants. Don’t forget
that abuse cuts both ways.

If anything, the EF's supply drop counters the unstoppable harvesting. And EF's power plant supplies LOTS of power, with the trade off of
A. If it gets wrecked, your base power is low
B. It explodes and nearly kills everything around it.

Edit: Did you remember to make the Gunwalker/herald immune to tiberium?

EditEdit: Heralds/Gunwalkers still take Tiberium damage, Scrin superweapon unavailable.
NOD: Doctrine HOMELAND uses TIBERIUM GUARD Doctrine for high-tier infantry. Unsure on vehicles/aircraft.

Edited by: ARMofORION

ARMofORION get I clue I came up with the ef supply drop idea. Hell at first were weren't even going to do it be we changed our minds on it. As for the ef drop last time I checked every battle I ever saw was players building TONS of ef power supply drops and out resourcing there enemy. The bottom line is I say if you are going change the scrin then put the same limation on the ef players as well.
As for the versaion your all bitching about how many of you have checked to see the mount to resouce the ai is producing vs your own. I want to see screen shots with numbers.

Simply set the limit on how many Supply Drops can be made at any point during a match.

NO THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENTS. SO YOUR TELLING ME THAT EF SHOULD START OF WITH BETTER SUPPLY DROPS THEN THE SCRIN...YOU MUST BE JOKING. You guys aren't thinking. All you have to do is to make it so that they player can not build more harvester, add a cost the attack power that scrin have in the way of power and resources and lastly increase the power consumption of the refineries. Ryan you have 32000 more point to work with. those are the 3 most simplest way to do this. As for the scrin power comsuming power and cost this is how I would do it: when a scrin player uses the shift power or the ion storm or something to that effect a building drops that triggers the attack power. However this building also drains a lot of energy as will. This would mean that the play my now be able to execute the attack right a way and my have to hold off until all the proper power plants are built.
Still waiting on those screen should of income comparisons

Dougbendo wrote: NO, THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE. SO YOUR TELLING ME THAT EF SHOULD START OF WITH BETTER SUPPLY DROPS THEN THE SCRIN...YOU MUST BE JOKING.

No, LIMIT the number of the building Supply Drop. And certain buildings on each team creates more credits for you to use.

Dougbendo wrote: You guys aren't thinking. All you have to do is make it so that the player can not build more harvester, add a cost the attack power that scrin have in the way of power and resources, and lastly increase the power consumption of the refineries.

This still presents the problem of invulnerable mining, along with a new problem with the power system.

Dougbendo wrote: As for the Scrin power consumption and cost this is how I would do it: when a scrin player uses the shift power or the ion storm or something to that effect a building drops that triggers the attack power. However this building also drains a lot of energy as will. This would mean that the player may now be able to execute the attack right away and may have to hold off until all the proper power plants are built.

So, now you are just encouraging the mass-production of Power Plants, which now makes the Scrin a turtle faction with a choice: Attack now, while they are suppressed, and leave your base defenseless, or attack without suppression, knowing that your base has defenses up and powered.

Yea, forgot about the Herald/Gunwalker thing. Will get that fixed.

Um, when you say unavalible what are you talking about? I used the Scrin Superweapon, it works fine. Are you saying the AI won't use it because it works just fine.

I'll double check all the doctrines, it's a very complicated system and I may have mislabled some of the triggers / got my upgrades crossed.

As for the argument in the room...

There is an obvious problem with the Scrin Harvesters as I had designed them, they were able to be abused. Because of that I set them back to normal. This is not ideal as I would like to use my original idea but I am not going to allow players to abuse the system. Scrin are not ment to be a turtle army or a defensive army and if I keep the Harvester design the way I had it it would be just that. Limiting the supply drop or limiting the Refinery number that the Scrin could deploy would not fix this problem so I'm not going to do that.

Doug, you keep saying that I have 32000 more points to work with, where the hell do you get that number from? If your talking about the 'free' upgrades that the Scrin.... sigh.

You need to change your point of view on their upgrade system. It's not free. The Scrin are a biological force who's commander is able to genetically manipulate their design to shift from one form to another. In this idea their upgrade system gives you, the commander, the ability to modify certain aspects of their forces to make them better at some things. There is always a trade-off though. Do you want your Scrin infantry to be faster and have access to their heralds? Cool, but you won't get extra armor for them.

Also any "upgrade" is already put into their cost. I need you to stop saying that, it's not true.

ARMofORION"So, now you are just encouraging the mass-production of Power Plants, which now makes the Scrin a turtle faction with a choice: Attack now, while they are suppressed, and leave your base defenseless, or attack without suppression, knowing that your base has defenses up and powered."
No it does not. It means that if a player would like to spam resource gathering station they it will take them longer to do it do to the drain on power. If they are not out to spam then they would need to worry about power as an issue. If you are talking about it for an attack power point of view. Let me ask you just how much power do you think it would take to phase in and out of dimensions. I mean do you think there might need to be a "something" extra to make it happen. I think more of us would call it power and resources.
I really don't see the problem here with what I am say. I say if you are going to do it to the scrin then do the same thing to the ef. See how well it plays for the ef players. The truth here is all I am seen it people crying about an abuse they can't show. I have already said to posted the stats for in come after the battle. I find it funny that NO ONE has done so. Now why is that...hmmm.
Ryan it it would have been a problem I would have told it to you from the get go. Because I played scrin before any of these guys did I told you what needed to be done. You did it and guess what it worked. Both gdi and nod did not get killed in the first 5 mins of the game. They made it to a strong late mid.

The most simplest solution to this is not to allow the scrin player to build harvesters. The other part is for the players playing this mod the normally play the gundam armys to relize you will now always have income on your side. I know its crazy isn't it. But it will be a bit tougher of a fight when you don't have mulitiple drops coming it every min or so give you 2000 each!

What I am saying is Val said that on a specific map it took him 10 minutes to devour all the resources on the map effectively shutting down his GDI opponent. I then played that same map and attempted to do the same thing. He was right, in 10 to 15 minutes I had built 8 refinerys, 6 power plants with upgrades, and I had devoured most of the maps tiberium. I had over 200,000 in the bank and I had a massive defensive army. GDI had no place to expand to to get more tiberium, there was none left. They could only attack me with their drop ins. I could however produce more tiberium through my blue tib power. It was way too easy to defeat the AI. So from this point of view I changed the Scrin Harvester back until we could actually think of a creative way to have it the way we want it without it being super-easy for players to abuse to no end. Last thing I want to hear is a player like Grasshopper playing and defeating 5 enemy AI's on Hard as Scrin because he figured this out.

I did not do it just because a few people complained, I changed it back becaues I found it to be too easy to abuse. I'm all for using the Scrin's ability to harvest as a real tactic but if your going to economy blast your opponent then just building refinerys isn't the way I want to implement it.

EF's supply drop is fine as it is. What balanced this out against the standard method of tiberium gathering, was that the suppy drop zones were large in size and hard to maintain within the base limits on some/most maps. However this was not the case in earlier versions because they were smaller, but that's fixed now.

Scrin's current economy system (O3 2.0) is not balanced because you can sit inside your base with 7+ Refineries and just watch all the money disappear into Scrin's Swiss Bank Account. The Harvesters are not targetable, they were extremely fast, and each Refinery came with 2 harvesters each. As said before, removing the speed of those harvesters could fix the problem.

@Dougbendo: Dude, you need to chill out. Have you even play tested the new version of Original 3? You really should start considering other people's comments and then see for yourself what it is we are talking about. All of your arguments about what we say make you look like you have not even tried the new version yet, plus you are bringing up stuff that is already old and known.

The latest update I kept the speed where it was but made the harvesters selectable/targetable from the refineries. The RC2 version, not the RC1 version. I posted a link on the main page last night to it.

The first thing I am going to say about grass hopper is he never cried about too many land mines being drop by an ai because he just wasn't smart enough to us air power. He has never been that crappy of a player. The other thing I have to ask is what ai did you play up agents, what map did you play it on and where was the ai located. Scrin will have and advantage on the smaller maps as a general rule. They are ment to have a small foot print as well. I would also have to point out that where you put the ai on the map does make a real deference.
to Valherran this isn't about chilling out. You have know clue of what you are talking about. The reason why WE meaning ryan and I went back and did a new version of the original 3 was because EF was way to strong do to there economy and game style. Yes economy has a lot to do with it. Before you ever even think of talking about me take into account what you f rate gaming play playing findings are I will tell you that I fought the scrin with much weaker forces they any of you were given and beat them. This is with those changes and to older nod and gdi. I do lesson to what you have to say but what I said to apply it to apply the changes to you own foot you say no everything is just fine.
You say that the supply drop zone are hard to maintain in most base limits REALLY. So what is stopping you as an ef player with just building a other command center and dropping it next to you drop area. Oh wait I have ever an better idea...what is stopping you from using that unit called an explore and using that to geez I don't know ex-pan your base. Wow Valherran I know I am hitting you with revelations here. So you asked me if I have played v3 I am simply going to ask you have you ever played the mod at all.
So please bless me with the map and info I just ask for.

Dougbendo wrote: You say that the supply drop zone are hard to maintain in most base limits REALLY. So what is stopping you as an ef player with just building a other command center and dropping it next to you drop area. Oh wait I have ever an better idea...what is stopping you from using that unit called an explore and using that to geez I don't know ex-pan your base. Wow Valherran I know I am hitting you with revelations here. So you asked me if I have played v3 I am simply going to ask you have you ever played the mod at all.
So please bless me with the map and info I just ask for.

You really need to work on your grammar, and your reading as well.

Regaurdless of expanding or not, the supply drop zones are large. Did I say they were a problem? No, you did.

And if you want something from someone, it helps to not be an egotistical douche about it. You may think you are not, but you are. Or at least, that is how how people percieve it when reading your assonine posts. This is also why Grammar helps, strongly recommend you brush up on it, because it's bad PR.