[Unit Needed] Brainstorming for ASI T2 Vehicle, Anti Structure Role Thread - Tiberium Secrets mod for C&C3: Tiberium Wars

I would like to open up a Directed Brainstorming session for an ASI unit that is in the works.

Any ideas and design References are welcome, however those that are adherent the bellow criteria will be foremost considered.

The Basics that have been discussed and to some extent settled within the team:
1. Name: Inquisitor
2. Not a walker
3. Uses some sort of light weapon called a Flash cannon to damage buildings, destroy Tiberium, and May suppress Infantry and or debuff them with blinding light
4. Not A Focused Laser Unit
5. Damage will increase on continuous fire.
6. Comparable to GDI Shatterer, Nod Flame Tank, Scrin Corupter

Lets see what you guys can come up with.

An idea for locomotion could be the use of rollers. Six straight pylons might connect the body to six separate such spheres located around the unit; from a top down view the unit would appear akin to a six-legged spider. These pylons, as I see them, are angled downward and thus raise the core chassis of the unit above the spheres and higher off the ground.

The chassis itself is seperated in two sections, possibly connected at the center in a similar fashion to terminal gates where passengers embark/ disembark from commercial aircraft (with an ASI appearance of course). The rear section could house a partially in-hull sphere like that found in the cancelled RA3 chrono tank (or whatever it was called). A fancy disk on one the unit's sides could focus the energy housed in the chassis and fire it at enemy targets, while the sphere glows brighter longer it remains active.

Inquisitor-

An ASI Tier-2, anti-structure 'entity.'
...

I think that this unit may be able to roll on 'wheels' made of folded mechanical legs. Possibly something round; with multiple small, mechanical appendages evenly-distributed placed along the perimeter, facing out-wards. When viewed from the top, it may be seen that the wheels themselves are frail, and thus susceptible to easy damage; so are paired- or even supported by many other wheels, essentially making it a roller. Of course, the wheels would be large and would turn, and the small legs would do most of the actual locomotion. Also, a setup like this would mean it simply cannot damage tanks with its locomotors (unless it had... hold that thought- cannot 'damage' tanks as-of-yet; upgrade time) but will murder infantry by roll-walking over them. Oh, to give you a clearer picture, it would be a slow-mover rolling on giant, metallic, paramecia; where the cilia are the small, moving legs. Now, possibly, with an upgrade it could give its small appendages EMP properties, leaving any tank/land-vehicle/etc. slow enough to be caught by it EMP'd. It still can do no direct damage with its legs to vehicles. As an afterthought, certain infantry probably won't be crushed- a next-gen Zone Trooper would definitely survive.

A chassis would be smooth and dome-like, I was thinking. Possibly like a Scorpion Tank, but more inflated. The wheels could be essentially 4 or 6 total; and each wheel, if observed closely, can be seen as 2-4 thinner wheels lined up close-together to give the impression of a larger, thicker wheel. [Inspiration for wheels- Nautilus shell. Keep in mind its structure is not like a Nautilus shell, as that would make it very difficult for the unit to move hahaha.] The wheel's location may be 'out-side' the chassis, or located 'inside' it and may have part of only the bottom visible. [Outside: -O-O- Inside: -U-U- Understand it? I feel like my words cannot describe it...] If they are located inside a special death animation may make them visible for eye-candy purposes. The turret that actually has the Flash Cannon could be similar to mount as a flame-turret is on a General's Flame Tank. A '7' or 'Z' shape that has the Flash Cannon on the top-end. the bottom end, or 'line' (I prefer the 'Z') could be connected/embedded to a rotating disc which may turn 360 degrees. Thus, the turret would rise above the vehicle chassis and surpass even the wheels. Also, seeing how the name "Flash Cannon" sounds as if it described a weapon with grand range, I would say the top of the 'Z' would have to be angled down a few more degrees [not to align with the planet's terminal degree of curvature, as that would cancel my reason for doing so, but even lower. Then, it would have to be set as a maximum (or minimum?) there, and can be further angled down to take out closer threats. So essentially it still can have a heck-of-a range, but can be limited and tweaked. Also, because of the chassis design, it has a minimal fire distance at close-range (For example, if the top line of 'Z' went down and aligned parallel with the '/' in 'Z', then the shot would blast through the hull, destroying or severely damaging the vehicle...).].

I think I haven't elaborated enough, but I'll stop here as of now.

Nice, I find it awesome that you guys are so responsive.

now we wait for Colers, and the real collaboration can begin.

Although Imagining from text is the starting point, we do need to find some good references, that is the thing that I've been stuck on.
Keep it coming, I'm sure we can construct and define this unit together.

I'll throw in things from time to time, but I want to see you guys make the most of this opportunity.

Edited by: GeneralJist

Youtube.com This video shows Supreme commander:Forged Alliance,BlackOps:Unleashed mod, Aeon faction experimental unit,by coincidence called Inqusitor.Its a walker and a siege platform.But I think that orbital weapon he uses quite reminds of energetic weapon which fleshes the light discharges.Just a weapon animation inspiration.I am unsure if it can use some "barrel" that those light flash discharges will come out.
So our ASI Inquisitor is a t2 support fire role vehicle.Its not a walker,so it hover or it is tracked (ASI Harvester,Dozer).Wheels are only for miniature drones like this one here-https://www.moddb.com/mods/tiberium-secrets/images/asi-june-update3 Because as we know the world is highly tiberium infested,and normal wheeled vehicle will just not get through.Our Inquisitor is medium sized,has price from 1000 to 1500, is particularly good vs structures.
The continuous light energy discharges increases its damage.Its not a laser focused weapon,laser focused=beam weapon,right? like NOD beam canon.Continuos fire that increases in strenght, maybe like Starcraft 2 Protoss Void ray here? Youtube.com But it uses beam weapon. Flash weapon that blinds infantry.Maybe flashing flashlight? Nope,I'd think that these continous discharges has AoE damage.And these light discharges "blinds" enemy infantry whenever Inquisitor fires or it can have upgrade which mounts unit with light reflectors and provides ability,that will set them on,unit stops,it will make one big light discharge with nice animation effect like supernova is going boom that blinds or even harms any enemy infantry or any enemy unit that is around.
The form and shape of unit.I am unsure maybe something like Universe at war:Earth assault- Novus Variant-http://universeatwar.wikia.com/wiki/Variant , Mycnc.org which is hover unit and uses ability similiar to mirage tank. ( takes form of nearby doodad)

You say "comparable to GDI Shatterer, Nod Flame Tank, and Scrin Corrupter."

Does this mean it will contain unique properties of all 3 units?
Such as damage to friendlies (Shatterer)?
Area-of-effect fire in a cone-like emission (Flame Tank)?
Spawning neutrals/hostiles out of killed enemies (Corrupter)?
Or even healing certain friendly units (Corrupter again)?
Clear garrison?

Just ideas I'm throwing out there. You modders technically don't have to 'answer' those 'questions,' as they [would be spoilers] are mainly proposals (not inquiring).
Also, I think the most fitting 'side-effect' for a weapon I imagine is a Flash Cannon would be "clear garrison." Just in my opinion.

oh, no, when i said that I meant it fits the role of those things, the Anti structure/ anti Tib/ anti inf type damage. All of those 3 units will retain their own qualities.
Clear Garrison will likelly need to be there for balance, but I'm having a hard time imagining a light baced weapon clear garrisons.

And actually, I do need to answer questions like this, since it focuses the brainstorming, and I'm asking you guys to come up with something more specific then before.

Hopefully colers will get in at the ground floor soon, if not, then we will need to build without his input in the beginning....I'm sure Oaks is also up for the challenge.

Edited by: GeneralJist

Ah, ok.
Well, I imagined sitting an a building holding an Auto-Rifle (or whatever) and suddenly my vision goes all bright white leaving me to see only like 2 feet in front of my face, all the while the temperature around me is rising dramatically- up, up, up. [SCUD Launcher reference ] I jump out the window or run out the door.

Well... Can't argue with that.

Hahaha. Hopefully soon. [Definitely, though, I can understand a prolonged absence *Thinks of all the time spent away...*.]

COLERS! WHERE ARE YOU!?

And how might we best proceed with this concept's creation. Must we just try to help reach a decision on different aspects of this unit, such as locomotion and appearance? Or might a decision have already been reached?

idk where he is..... he said something about vacation, but....
And yes, you guys just try to reach some sort of consensus about how you guys see it, and once that happens, I'll push it to the team, and it will be made using community suggestions, and the direction of the artist that takes on the task.

And no, no decision nor discussion has occurred, beyond the original points I listed. I told you guys this would be an opportunity to create a unit, I mean it, we're not touching this unit until some form of consensus or diverse points of view occur. Ideally I'd like to motivate other wachers to get involved, which I'm trying to do, but since Umbrella has been busy, he hasn't posted he news update regarding this, and my story, and a modeler position opening up.

So, I gues for now, just do what you can with who is here.

I've an idea for locomotion- millipede legs. Honestly when they move they look really nice. Look them up; I'm sure you'll find a video of one simply crawling about. The most unique feature is their 'wave' motion sent through and seen in the legs. I think it would look really nice. Also, I know this is sort of a 'walker' thing, but it could be incorporated into some kind of treads, or a shiny tread cover. Also, 'millipede' treads themselves could work. I think 4 sets of 2 treads all on independent locomotors would work, but it may be difficult to model. Oh, well. Your call, Colers, War Wolf, Oaks, and/or anyone esle who may be silently 'lurking' about.

OH! Or a style similar to an 18-wheeler, but smaller and with a millepede cover- possibly the cover could stretch farther down than the wheels, completely concealing them and leaving a unique 'track-mark' in the sand. Also, if like that, it could run over very lightly armored infantry.

srry, i haven't been on the forum lately, but im trying to catch up (damn you minecraft, why you so addictive)

Name: Inquisitor WSD (Walker Siege device)
Role: Anti-ground siege walker (not truly artilery, due short range)
Weapon: Solar Torch
Weapon explaination: The solar torch is a ASI weapon that uses good ol' solar radiation, magnifies it greatly, and send it through 3 rotating prisms (causing everyhit to land on a different spot for maximum damage). it needs special solar panels to work, which are so powerfull they can even get energy in clouded weather or even take that minuscule amount of solar rays that bounce of the moon. The lance will constantly powerup on its own, while simultaneously melting away metal armor (the power of its own can be seen on a blue bar above the health, which will constantly increase when its firing (takes 15 seconds of continuous fire to load. there is a 150% power increase). do note that the fire power will not increase, only the amount of solar rays emited from the cannon each second (which will increase its AoE, so it does not increases against tanks)). the range is further than a flame tank or other close range building destroyer.
Story: Though its name says different, the WSD is actually a hover tank. it hovers over the field , and when it gets to the spot were it has to fire, it will land with its four legs, which will then deploy underneath him (like in sliding), showing 4 panels of super advanced solar panels, special purple plates which use the light-absorption properties of Dark Matter. whether its is during night time, a cloudy day, or through a thick forest, these dark matter solar plates will amplify the least bit of solar rays so much that every amount is enough. all solar energy will be transferred to a powerful UV emitter, which will then fire solar rays of 2500*c. The rays only hit the same spot for a milli second, but the enormous temperature will damage it on a very other level, weakening the bind between atoms. as more spots on the surface weaken, the walls will simply collapse under their own weight. If you would see a picture of a firing WSD you would hardly think what intensity the dim purple glow of the 4 panels have: the panels will emit a enormous amount of "excess" UV rays, which are as lumiscent as a blacklight, but are so intense that they nearly burn your eyes out of your sockets, as such, its a hard thing to attack it long times in a row as a single glance will leave your eyes tearing. closer to the WSD is even a greater thread: in order to prevent damage to the board computer, the WSD will emit the heat of the cannon through its hover pad, supressing and damaging all infantry that gets to close (damage differs in scale of range between infantry and the Inquisitor). the heat will continue as long the blue bar is not depleted. The rays also seem to have a unique effect of "decay" on tiberium, which oddly enough increases compared to the size of a tiberium mass
Abilities: light pads (emits a flash wave that will blind both infantry and sensors of defences for a short while, decreasing their accuracy. with the use of the ability the 4 pads will flash into a bright white for a sec)
Cost: prizy ( 1200-2000)
Looks: the main body is like a "cyclops""beetle", a big plated body with a purple "eye" in its middle. In hover mode, you can only see the tips of the spike-like legs that each hold a pad. The legs are joined with the body half-way, and the lower parts will slide into 4 depressions in the bottom of the WSD, putting the legs flat on the ground, the inside of the upper part showing the purple plate it holds.

srry for my lack of attention of the forums (i knew i was forgetting to check something, forgot wth it was)

also, i will be away this weekend, so i will again be unable to answer for 2 days.

Edited by: colers

i design caught my attention. It would be a unique thing to see in reality haha. Mechanics are great, especially the infantry-harming 'excess.'

So it is like a miniture siege platform? But with reduced effect. Do the legs provide extra armor? Would it be weaker when deployed? It'd say so, for when deployed its solar panels are exposed. And a truly intriguing destruction-effect. Bravo.

But, as the only catch to this, I must say that it sounds like a T3 unit. Just a thought. But keep in mind I've yet to grasp a true mental image of a T2 vehicle, for comparison purposes.

its great weakness is that it does not have a rotatable turret: everytime he changes target he needs to undeploy, turn, and redeploy. it is also weak vs other armor, and note that in the first few seconds of firing, it has very bad damage, later its like 50% more than a flamethrower. As a siege platform part , a Juggernaut would perform a lot better, with better range and armor. probaly its just the flashy description that made it sound stronger than it is (and i've changed the prize, so its better).

Ah, ok. Much better fitting T2 type, now. And yeah, I think the price tag was the T3 thing. The new one is better suited. (And I sort of automatically took it that Juggs' > WSD.) Also, I'll just mention for the heck of it that the Juggs' is what comes into my mind when I picture a siege walker deploying leg-stands to stop recoil [from sending it to the moon; at least to stop a 180 degree flip]. But all-in-all Juggs's animations are awesome. But was I the only on who could outrun their fire with Riflemen and make short work of them? They are indeed best suited against stationary targets...
Then again, I may be thinking of a certain mod's Juggernaut.

Very interesting,

You all fail to disappoint, nice job here and in other threads.

So, it deploys, do you image its range to be more or less then a standard base defense?

if it is more, then how would you guys balance it?

if it is less, it would need good frontal armor.

oh, and Colers, don't forget to check out the new story in "Sneak peaks"

Edited by: GeneralJist

I imagine it's range < standard base defense's range.

And I suppose the "good frontal armor" would compensate- but maybe, to add as a side-effect of it's weapon mechanics, it could 'dodge' light based weapons occasionally. Meaning that there may be a 30% chance that weapons such as lasers would miss. Possibly higher, for balancing. But the unit wouldn't move- the laser itself would miss.

Have we mentioned/discussed the speed of this unit? If it is like Coler's, then I'd say it may actually have pretty decent speed, which may add to balance. For it is small, compact, and most of all- hovering. I know certain hover units can be very slow, but this one sounds as if it would be able to out run a standard MBT, at least, but not something like a Humvee.

If this unit is intended for siege warfare as specified, while also needing stabilize itself before firing, then rule of thumb would call for the capability to engage at long range. But by harassing light, and thus losing power over range, such a weapon would want speed to reach the target quickly in order to fire. Since it has to stabilize I'd say it would require piles of armor, as such a unit would have to survive more than just lasers. Maybe it might absorb laser based weaponry?

And I'd gotten the impression hover/ anti-grav tech was to be a Scrin and D51 trait, although there might be some outliers here and there.

GeneralJist wrote: if it is less, it would need good frontal armor.

There can be different values for armor facings/ sides?

WunderKind wrote: But the unit wouldn't move- the laser itself would miss.

A chance for them to miss is possible on the engine? Would that not be the first step in introducing "ballistics" for most weapons? Or am I misunderstanding how the concept would work.

* harnessing (not intended as "harassing" in first paragraph).

So you all agree with that this unit, when firing, will deploy itself,become static(and vulnerable) and start to charge its powerfull mid-ranged AoE weapon?
Do we have consensus on chassis and locomotion type? I would think if it hovers that the weight of weapon and power core (as the weapon obviously requires large amounts of energy) would negatively influence units movement speed.I think the turret/barrel is pretty massive and will rotate slowly.(maybe not able to turn in 360*-Walker would be clumsy.Thats why I am for tracked or half-tracked.
It could have upgrade similiar to Scrin Force field but more powerfull,to gain some resiliance.
I have seen many times that ordinary MBT fire can miss.On move,to hit the moving buzzer for example is pretty hard.But after upgrade,laser-sighted and rail-gun weapons have 100% accuracy.Plasma discs are many yet,up to 40-60% have big chance to miss. Moving ground targets can also relatively easily avoid fire from relatively slowly flying missiles.(Missile squads)
Powerfull UV rays,I were also thinking about that in terms of massive energy requiring weapon projection flashes of discharges of sun eruption.But dont know if it should just harm everything around upon firing.But that would gain the demanded "suppresing infantry" and "blinding" effect.
I would be honored to see sketched Colers unit. As I am still unsure of looks,shape,form of unit.If the body will not correspond to chassis and weapon,that would be bad.

I'd say Colers had a pretty good idea with firing mechanism and physics etc. behind it.
I imagined it compact and speedy. But your idea made me think of the Nuke Cannon (slowly rotating turret; on tracks and with the little deployable 'recoil' legs). I thought the hover/deploy idea was cool, though. Has that ever been seen before in a EA unit? Seriously, I can't think of one...
Also, is the unit relatively flat (and close to the ground)? Because the turret position will affect how the unit reacts to the recoil. (For example on a Juggernaut, if the artillery barrels were on its feet, and they fired, the unit would be pushed back and tilt forward (and/or flip on its face). If they are placed where they are, the unit will simply hurtle itself backwards into the ground. Also, this is imagining only the front turret, 'parallel' with the rest of the Juggs', if firing. If the ones off to the left/right fired, the Juggernaut would tilt/fly off in the opposite direction inversely compared to the direction of the one that fired.)
Yeah, I've seen fire miss. I know in CnC4: TT EA was able to make lasers (normally thought of as damn accurate) miss, so I thought it may be possible here.
To me it seemed Colers unit would have the desired effects.
Speaking of blinding, did the entire screen go white in TW when a Nuke or Ion Cannon hit? Or was what I'm thinking of a mod? I'd like to see that implmented. Slightly more realistic.

* coughgoherecough *

I have been watching this mod for about a month and have been very interested in seeing it completed. Are you in need of another brain stormer? I can help come up with ideas if this mod is in need of a little larger of a crowd.

The Inquisitor: A heavy unit with a flash cannon. It is very slow, making it vulnerable but powerful. Almost any unit could out pace it if it needed to. A circular rolling design would make it easy to deflect bullet fire, while a prism like pyramid pops out from the center upon firing. Upon seeing an enemy unit, the slow roller would stop and start to flash white. A few seconds pass and the pyramid slowly rises from the center. It shoots a streak of white into the air that strikes down on its enemy. It is able to fire at any side, thus making the circular design a perfect design for the ASI. As the units/buildings take damage from the inquisitor, the beams from the pyramid become more numerous and powerful as it shoots more and more. Infantry would be able to outrun the vehicle before it is able to charge up its weapon so for infantry, it suppresses the nervous system with blinding amounts of light (small bright dot on the computer screen) or possibly delivering electric shocks through the ground, supressing a human like a taser. This would have little effect on a colony soldier, but large effect on any human or electrical soldier. This unit would be balanced by making it vulnerable to air. Possibly giving it a drone upgrade to shoot at air units (very weak) to give it some sort of defense. Let me know8)

Well we thank you for your interest. And regarding another brain stormer of course, interest and input are always appreciated.

As for your idea above, we might be able to use it and the others' premise as mobile defenses. Both are quite interesting a deserve looking into, but development of the mod is going to shift over to ASI aircraft and infantry.

True quote is true.

I thought these are Inquisitors- Moddb.com
Moddb.com

Also with new leadership of SilentNomad comes changes. Did you seen those PharoHounds for example? xd

Moddb.com
Moddb.com

Carefully look at their size and shape and yet,these are artillery units! Something I would never dream of to see at ASI. And know I look forward on aircraft,as well as on another cooperation with you guys.see ya at the ASI Air Dome,or Spaceship scaffold or maybe just Airfield or however will that structure be called