First simply subtitles mod, and now Update MOD that will take Half-Life into the next level.

Post news Report RSS Sad news, legal issues, lack of time.

So here it is. I guess it had to end like this. :(

Posted by on

Hello guys,

Today I have some really sad news, I think you already guessed by news title what's going on.

First of all, I've planned to put HL: Update MOD on Steam greenlight as a MOD for HL1. But since enabling steam greenlight submission on account cost 100 USD, I needed to check if it was worth it (if mod will pass legal stance with Valve) So I've contacted them, explained what HL:Update MOD is and what players need to play it (HL1 required and expansions recommended) and also explained that it's using open source clone of GoldSRC engine. Well the answer I've got back is... well worst than I expected.

It won't pass steam greenlight (even if it's greenlit by community), the Valve won't allow it to be on steam greenlight and even worse, they said that this version of "GoldSRC clone" is not fully legal and using HL1 SDK (client and server side) is NOT legal with it. They've quoted part of HL1 SDK license "You may, free of charge, download and use the SDK to develop a modified Valve game running on the Half-Life engine." And Xash3D engine (even if it's a clone) is NOT Half-Life 1 engine.

If HL:Update mod was a total conversion with majority of custom code for client and server side and completely different maps, models, sounds, textures etc. It might be OK to release it, but in current form what HL:Update is and what it meant to be. It won't get Valve approval.

Well, even worse, I can't release it on greenlight, but also I might get in trouble by releasing it on moddb.com or any other place. Valve said that they might (and mostly will) take legal actions against it and they will take it down. They also gave me all contact info for theirs attorney, if I want to get more detailed info.

So yeah... only way to develop HL: Update as a legal mod would be using Half-Life 1 GoldSRC engine, and it won't work. I've chosen to use Xash3D for many reasons, it just works better than Steam HL1 and it's possible to extend limits of HL1 engine AND even change stuff like main menu, mounting content from multiple games etc. Using Xash3D engine was only way to develop HL: Update as I intended to do.

While it might be possible to create "half-assed" version of HL: Update using clean HL1 SDK 2.3 and Steam, it will be even harder and messy to work with. And a lot of stuff won't be possible to recreate using GoldSRC. Some of the stuff would require to be completely re-written, and even then I'm not sure if it will work or not.

And there's a second issue. Like I said before; I'm hobbyist coder, definitely NOT a pro in this. And since Subs mod 4.0 (aka. Update MOD) I was coding it mostly by myself. Of course there were community contributions and I can't say all of the source code in 4.0 is written from scratch by me. A lot of code is based on other open source mods or even pulled directly from old tutorials. I've used these code parts as a base for learning HL SDK and after some time I've got some knowledge, I've experimented with a lot of stuff and managed to create something that would be (in my opinion) cool additions to the game.

It pains me to say this, especially after many of hours spend on writing, testing, recompiling and debugging the code, but it's over.

Without Xash3D power on my side, I simply don't have that amount of free time available to try and re-code it on clean GoldSRC. And I gotta tell you; working with HL1 engine is a PAIN. In my past I did some work on source engine and I'm gonna say something that might be shocking for some of you. It would be EASIER to recreate (from scratch and HL2 SDK) the WHOLE HL1 and expansions using Source 1 engine than hack-develop HL: Update on GoldSRC.

Also I think I never mentioned; Why development of HL: Update mod was so slow, even for simple things. Well, I don't have a lot of free time available and in many cases when I DO have a free time available I need to care about surviving in real life. I'm 24 years old and I don't have a rich parents or other family members to back me up. I need to earn money myself and spend it on rent, food, medicine etc.

Maybe if I was younger (in middle school or something) with a lot of free time available I could try to do something about HL: Update, but in current state I can't. Real life has kicked my ass.

The source code for Alpha version of HL: Update is still available here: Github.com If you want to use parts of it in your own mod OR maybe even develop it further, you have my blessing to do so.

And finally as a last part; I wish to very much thank all of you, both contributors (for models, sounds, code parts, translators etc.) and moddb community members (for sharing ideas, suggestions and opinions on new features).

Thank you guys it was a fun ride.

(Oh and since internet is full of trolls and kids that don't understand yet how real life works, I know I will get a lot swearing in comments, cursing me and mod and dropping swears left and right just like in any other case when mod on moddb dies. I can only say; do what you want, I'm immune to this type of kid-rage comments, but if it will make you feel better then spam away.)

Edit: Guys I know you are upset, I'am too but chill the fuck down about cursing and threatening Valve. We don't need any more corporate attention to this page :P

Comments
Rob12772
Rob12772

Well that sucks. :(

First City 17: Episode One, now your mod.

What a sad day that we never expected.

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Yup it's sad :(

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Akol
Akol

So sad! :(

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

I agree :(

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Marek33
Marek33

This is very sad. It's pity to see one of my favorite Half-Life 1 Mods going away.

However, I fully understand that having issues with Valve it's not a good thing so its understandable that you will end this mod.

Also, real life is much more important than some mod, so good luck in the real life.

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Thanks for understanding and kind words :)

Reply Good karma+5 votes
DarkShift
DarkShift

Damn, that's such a pain in the ***.

Of course I understand Valve issues with your project, but still, I hope some people will come to help you, it was such a nice way to refresh our 18 year old favorite game.

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Maybe someone will pick up pieces from github, someone with much more free time available and with better HL coding skills and he/she will create something nice with it. I've already seen stuff from HL: Update mod pulled into other github repos. So if these people will continue and release their mods, some parts of HL:U will be with them :)

Reply Good karma+4 votes
SysOp.
SysOp.

Sad news indeed, but I don't see why you have to use Xash. You can do what you aim for, without it. And honestly, Xash is not a good option for nobody, uses stolen code and is the product of reverse engineering which is now allowed by Valve (or any other company for that matter).

It might be the easy route for some people, but in the end it will come and bite your tushy.

Take it as a challenge, you might learn a lot. Will be hard to play by the rules, but I'm sure will be a rewarding experience. There's many open source mods which do tons of cool stuff. Let me know if you need some help on this, will be glad to help.

Wish you well on whatever projects you may partake!

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

My comment/reply is so long that it won't fit here xD Seriously I hit character limit. I've posted it on pastebin:
Pastebin.com

Edit: Damn I've made some typos in that wall of text :P

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SysOp.
SysOp.

Hey mate, thanks for your thoughtful response!

Is, of course super difficult to find a solution that covers all issues at once, it was Xash, but it came with a price. For adding subtitles for HL1 you could have tweaked the original SDK itself, but as you pointed out, BS and OP4 are closed, so it narrows down the possibilities. You could still do your mod update for HL1, like that brutal mod, which got popular very fast (too bad the dev is a ****) but if you really are short of time, there's not much you could do, but as I said, there are already open source mods that covers lots of things, so that would help a lot.

And honestly, yes, it sucks to work with HL1. It was okay back in the day, but nowadays is just too complicated to get something at least, okay for todays standards. That makes me wanna reply the thingy about Arrangement and why we used HL1. The truth is, we are a bunch of stubborn people and luckily, the project got to a point where was supported enough <3 and we made peace with GldSrc (after tweaking it a lot!). But for me, is a personal quest: I own AM everything a lot. And of course there are options for using newer engines, we considered those, we will see how AM is received by the community after released - but hey, this isn't about my project :)

And before I forget, not everyone will understand how to install a mod. This is why there are installers!

Why am I saying all this? Because you are some sort of mirror? As a human being to another, it pains me to see, actually, that you would end up by a legal threat, when should have been otherwise :'( . I guess Valve forgot how important mods are. But at the same time, they greenlight for sale (for sale!) that HL2 OP4 mod, which wasn't great. I would have expected the support they gave to Sven Coop, because you were doing something actually, useful.

Anyhow, I really wish you the best for you. It sucks to see what happened. Is this a wake up call? Do we need to complain and start a petition or something? If there's interest, there could be a change, but not sure if it is worth it. I do see interest, and 'money' is where people is at, so I could see why they could do a quick compile, and fix/improve/raise the limits of GldSrc. But hey, this is just all wishful thinking. This should never have happened, they just killed a mod. Gosh, I'm so ****** off right now. Anyways, hugs and sorry for the rant

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Thanks for response Sys. Well, they didn't kill this mod yet ;) few days ago when I got that reply I wasn't sure how to react I was mostly disappointed but now; I think I can still do something :)

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Capt.Host
Capt.Host

This is just sad.

I don't understand, though. Xash3D (engine) exists, and XashXT (mod) in its barebones form allows you to play vanilla HL1. So far, I haven't seen any problems with it...
Why wouldn't your mod be legal then?

Not to mention that there are entire game ports for Android running on Xash too.

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Total conversion mods with custom maps and stuff are allowed, but I'm not sure about device ports.

Android port might be "kinda allowed" because, to be honest you can't get full Half-Life 1 experience on mobile Android device, no way. You need to play it with keyboard and mouse to fully appreciate the game.

So the android port might be a "lesser-evil" or something.

But Half-Life Update is kinda dangerous to Valve. You see with it people could just randomly copy-paste maps, models, sounds and textures from other mods that recreate HL and OF entities and get HL1 + expansions for free. Without any restriction or check from Steam if they own game or not. Half-Life Update is kinda on thin line between legal and illegal (warez) distribution of the assets. I thought that it will be OK if it will require valve, gearbox and bshift directories to be copy-pasted from installed gamedir into moddir, but I guess it's not enough "protection" from non-steam users :P

I think the total conversions mods are allowed and porting to other platforms like Android is still kinda allowed. To be honest you can't get full Half-Life 1 experience on Android, no way; you need to use any kind of PC (or MAC or other)

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OurBenefactors
OurBenefactors

That's pretty hypocritical of valve, considering you can play hl2 + episodes for free by just modifying some files in Source SDK Base 2013 SP.

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

But still (as far as I remember) to get Source SDK Base 2013 SP you need to own at least one Source 1 Engine game. So you first need to give them money for something that's running on Source 1 engine :P

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brunocar
brunocar

uh, you do know you can get tf2 and alien swarm right?

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

I know, but I don't know if that unlocks Source SDK Base 2013 :P

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brunocar
brunocar

it does, thats how black mesa source was originally distributed

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

So I guess it's legal to get Source 1 engine and work with it :P But still the engine that I used Xash3D is not :P To be honest Xash3D violates licences of both HL1 SDK, Id Software license and it includes leaked/stolen code from HL2 beta... so yeah I can see why it's illegal to use that engine.

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Executor-64-
Executor-64-

sad state of affairs
ferwell and good luck in everyting you do

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Thanks for understanding and kind words :)

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MafiaGreed
MafiaGreed

(buried)

Valve's the ******* for not accepting your mod, and you're the ******* for letting them shut your mod down.

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Clear_strelok
Clear_strelok

Yeah, he should totally challenge one of the biggest players in the video game industry for your good pleasure. What an ******* for not risking to have legal actions taken against him.

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Yes, I'am an ******* for not going with Valve to the court and getting sentenced :P

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Magic_Nipples
Magic_Nipples

That's really unfortunate man... This is a good reason why we've decided to stay far away from Greenlight and Valve until we have a Steam port plan worked out.
All I can really say is thank you for what you have done, and I wish the best of luck to whatever you do in the future!!

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Thanks :)

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Davey|7corners
Davey|7corners

GOD DAMMIT! WHY HAS VALVE TO BE SUCH AN ***!? I LITERALLY VISITED THIS SITE EVERYDAY TO CHECK IF THE PROGRESS WAS DONE AND STUFF...And now, they came up with this...It was my favourite mod from Modbb, as not many mods like these get released now a days, Only ****** ones...Why Valve, why you gotta be such *****...I guess that the mod has been canceled...And it was looking really good...Do you think in some future, maybe, the mod could revive? I hope so...But possibilites are so low

EDIT: Now that I have readed what Magic_Nipples said, I think that you made an error to try to contact Valve in the first place...Why? If you leaved them and didn't say anything, this mod could've been the best one of the year...Im really dissapointed Fograin :/

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Well If I wouldn't contact Valve and just skip the whole Greenlight idea they would not know about mod for a little longer, but then (months later) after I would release it on moddb, they could find out either way and shut it down :P The whole barely legal HL: Update was just a time bomb waiting to explode.

Maybe someone will pick up pieces of this mod and port them to GoldSRC and do it right, heck I could even further help him with some stuff, but I won't definitely do major coding work on porting it.

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Davey|7corners
Davey|7corners

I think they are a little bit more busy focusing on VR and future projects rather than someone making a mod for their all classic game :P...Just saying

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Lateralus10k
Lateralus10k

So this is never going to be Released? :(

**** you Valve, you've become worse than EA & KONAMI.

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Lateralus10k
Lateralus10k

You will Possibly Resume Work on this in the Far Future won't you?

This Mod had so much Potential, I Hope you do come back to this someday.

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

I doubt it, I don't have that amount of free time to work on porting it to legal engine. If someone else will do it, I could help a little with some stuff in my free time. But re-working the whole thing is just beyond me.

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brunocar
brunocar

GOD ******* DAMN IT VALVE, you allowed for ******* sven coop and cry of fear to be on steam but not this mod? even worse, scare the living crap out of the humble creator with threats of legal action on something that was supposed to fix your stupid mistakes.
Fograin, please try sending an email to gaben about this, its the least you can do, i cant do it for you due to obvious possible miscommunication, so please, try it at least.

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Both of them use legal engine, they run on GoldSRC and NOT on Xash3D engine :P There is difference. Also Cry of Fear is a total conversion and Sven Coop is changed in many ways, so it's not Half-Life re-upload. If someone wants to have single player experience from original HL1 they can't get that in Sven Coop.

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h72david
h72david

That means that the mod is dead? If yes, too bad i liked the mod when i looked at the features i was like "best half life mod ever"

I didn't have time to read the whole post but here are some quick questions

Q: You will use xash3D instead GoldSRC?

Q: You will continue the mod?

Q: You will post it on Moddb instead of steam?

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

Next time read the whole thing, all of this questions are answered in the main post...

But there you go anyway:

1: It was using Xash3D from the start of 4.0 version and that's why it's illegal.

2: No.

3. If I do, Valve will take it down either way. Because Xash3D is illegal to use :P

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Trempler
Trempler

Actually I dont get why people are blaming Vavle it was his fault choosing Xash3d.
Most modder know that Xash3d is a non legal cancer and it is risky to use it.
Not defending Vavle, but I can understand them, If you read the Half-Life Book, with the part were they get hacked and nearly hl2 died because of this ****, you would understand why Vavle acts like this.

And also i´m really sad that your mod is more or less gone now.
I feel sorry for you.

If you have another plan or idea to keep it coming, maybe with some help from SySop, I would welcome that.

*Still tracking and hoping*

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

I have an idea to keep it going, but it will be crippled as hell.

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.sourceskyboxer
.sourceskyboxer

Me too. Why does Valve bad?

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Joebama
Joebama

I totally saw this coming. Told you that you should have dropped Xash3D a long time ago.

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FograinDaNoob Author
FograinDaNoob

And I saw it too, but I hoped that I could get away with it with need (restriction) that players need to have full game already installed, but I guess I was wrong.

I've chosen Xash3D engine for many reasons and if I dropped it long time ago the mod would die long time ago. Valve don't want to release full source code for GoldSRC engine so it's not possible to change things like mounting 3 games at once and that was suppose to be the main feature of 4.0.

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Squivo
Squivo

And what about subtitles?
I want to know if the launch of a version of the mod that has the subtitles for the game and expansions joints is possible.
It is possible to have subtitles on the expansions with the version 3 of mod?

Anyway, sad news but your work is amazing, thank you for what has been done so far.

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ÐiamonÐ
ÐiamonÐ

Hey Gman, sorry to hear about this. Take care of yourself, that's more important. Hit me up on steam.

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.sourceskyboxer
.sourceskyboxer

Hello Gman, sorry for bad sad news :(

**** because Valve doesn't want it. :(

PS: Why not use Haxe like NME, BabylonHX, Openfl and Waxe to code like example
Waxe is Haxe's wxWidgets like Valve Hammer Editor built by C++ and wxWidgets ( wgOpenGL ) that is truth from wxWidgets,

If you already develop with Haxe than we can build own dynamic library example client and server dlls from Windows, so files from Linux and dylib files from Mac OS X. simple default library example hdl like haxe dynamic library for all supported platforms Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, Android and more...

PS: I still develop hlmv from Haxe, NME and Waxe.

Because I find Haxe very simpler than C++. If you write whole hx files. than you don't forget to copy to Linux box and Mac OS X box. than build own binary like half-life.exe, half-life.app, half-life for Linux and half-life.apk for Android and half-life.a for iOS and more

Why not? Valve doesn't recognize that haxe developments

Haxe is not illegally. good support.

PS: BabylonHX is sometimes buggy. You know BabylonJS for HTML5. But BabylonHX is framework part for Haxe. It looks realistic like 3D objects. But Babylonhx has wrong axis X Y Z.. X = left - right, Y = top - Bottom and Z for- and backwards We need change to axis of Half-life.

Thanks for taking my suggestion!

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.sourceskyboxer
.sourceskyboxer

PS: I forget to say - Valve stops your release because it is possible virus warning because you have xash.dll from original xash.7z because it was happened by anti virus protection warns that is why you need to check anti virus if your build version and please check if files are okay than you release own game into Steam. So sad you're fault because xash.dll has virus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am mad to hl-fx.ru and I leave russian forum because they're liars.

Thanks for my reason because xash found virus by MalwareByte and Avira Virus protector.

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BloxxingBlocks
BloxxingBlocks

So the worst half life mod "Half-Life: Before" got greenlit, but this awesome mod which deserves more than just getting greenlit isnt accepted? *sigh*

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