Modding Roadmap/Plans Thread - Vector Thrust

As we all know, the Third Wire games has spawned an active modding community that has created great addons such as campaigns, planes, skins, weapons and ground/sea objects. With these mods, the Strike Fighters series has expanded to what it was originally envisioned, a Cold War-era combat flight game, since there's WW2 and Modern Era 'add-ons'. Not only that, but it has moved from it's original locales of Paran/Dhimar, Israel, Vietnam and Europe theaters with places like Iraq, India/Pakistan, Korea, Taiwan, Aegean and Iran among others.

A good example of something made by just one person is YSFlight. It originally comes with simple planes and terrains/maps but the reception is great and thus, its own modding community also makes high-quality 'add-ons', resulting in something totally different from release.

Hopefully there'll be something similar in Vector Thrust eventually, since the sky really is the limit when it comes to modding. I see lots of potential in Vector Thrust. Time Symmetry may have resources compared to Third Wire but if done right, I can see Vector Thrust reaching the point where it has is own modding community with stuff that aren't originally planned for inclusion in Vector Thrust just like what we have over at CombatAce and the YSFlight community. No need to compete with them, since Strike Fighters and Vector Thrust are totally different concepts.

Depends on how popular this game will be (on the positive way), and how the game can attract modders and what nots.
Like...Chinese modders.

However, I don't see any possiblity of cross-community modding can happen, even if VT .ini editing is quite similar with SF ones; I doubt there'll be anyone at CombatAce/YSFS would have any interest at VT, if there's any. On the other side let us not forget there were always shit tons of released games that supposed to be highly moddable but in the end almost nobody interested at modding them save for couple of guys (yes, I'm STILL looking at you, Pacific Storm™, but that's more due to the devs stopped patching it while it's still ridiculously buggy as hell).

Oh, and please FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND GABEN, don't restrict mod releases ONLY AND ONLY to Steam Workshop. I hate every single mod only to be released exclusively on Steam Workshop.

Lastly, VT should benefit being quite-highly-flexible arcade unlike SF2 which remains a semi-headache-inducing sim-lite even on easiest/arcadey settings (for mainstream non-sim players, of course), therefore I'm expecting of longer modding community live expectancy on par with likes of Freelancer or C&C Generals.....if thing goes well, of course.

Edited by: Nergal01

The only other similar games to Vector Thrust on PC I can think of as being similar to VT are HAWX and ACAH, but only HAWX is moddable.

Edited by: OrangeFr3ak

Isn't the ability to mod stuff just fantastic?

Well once this thing rolls around we'll be interested to see how people handle the mission editor and the custom campaigns in particular, because we'll most likely tune and include more stuff from that as needed by people as long as they're actually pushing it.

Also tweaks to the .ini and what not for personal usage that turn out to be popular.

Hell, people do good enough job contracting possibilities might arise, but don't quote me on that.

Speaking as someone who plays videogames, I'd very much like for this game to be good without mods or usermade content by itself, if only to avoid the whole Skyrim/New Vegas scenario where you end up more installing, fixing, and downloading mods and fixes as opposed to playing the game.

To have a mod community as big as those two games would be unbelievably nice however.

Speaking of the mission editor and the custom campaigns, I'm preparing the outline for one already before the early release... and in a world of my own design. [Remember, I wasn't an alpha funder, so I don't have access to all this stuff yet]

@Nergal01 about Chinese modelers I think it is best not to place too much hope in that.
When I was in GDC a Chinese publisher told me that modern military games usually aren´t released there (because they are already sure they will end up being portrayed as the bad guys), but also the players there are not interested in playing those games either, that is why fantasy games are more popular. But as for VT, they said that being in a fictional world may help, but they are not still sure.

As for the SF community, I have faith in humanity so I believe it is possible that some of them may also be interested in making some modds for VT. Like OrangeFr3ak said, both are different games, so it isn´t a matter who is the best game, but more about providing different experiences for different needs.

As for the Steam Workshop, I wasn't aware that it was possible make that limitation, but I don´t see the point, of course it will be completely unrestricted.

@ OrangeFr3ak, probably Jason_Zombolt will be able to correct me on this, but I always had the impression that adding modds in HAWX is more hacking the existing content than simply adding more.

timeSymmetry wrote: @Nergal01 about Chinese modelers I think it is best not to place too much hope in that.
When I was in GDC a Chinese publisher told me that modern military games usually aren´t released there (because they are already sure they will end up being portrayed as the bad guys), but also the players there are not interested in playing those games either, that is why fantasy games are more popular. But as for VT, they said that being in a fictional world may help, but they are not still sure.

As for the SF community, I have faith in humanity so I believe it is possible that some of them may also be interested in making some modds for VT. Like OrangeFr3ak said, both are different games, so it isn´t a matter who is the best game, but more about providing different experiences for different needs.

As for the Steam Workshop, I wasn't aware that it was possible make that limitation, but I don´t see the point, of course it will be completely unrestricted.

@ OrangeFr3ak, probably Jason_Zombolt will be able to correct me on this, but I always had the impression that adding modds in HAWX is more hacking the existing content than simply adding more.

Yep... I remember some of the controversy over C&C Generals being banned from China, despite the fact that Generals was the closest time any game would depict China as a protagonist. And thank goodness it won't be restricted to the Steam Workshop. The Strike Fighters community would be a smashing asset for all this, but I didn't know that the modded content for HAWX was acquired by means of hacking the game...

Edited by: SuperHunterX

When I was in GDC a Chinese publisher told me that modern military games usually aren´t released there (because they are already sure they will end up being portrayed as the bad guys), but also the players there are not interested in playing those games either, that is why fantasy games are more popular. But as for VT, they said that being in a fictional world may help, but they are not still sure.

That part was more or less a joke, it's the fact they usually steal "borrow" someone else's model without permission. No release? No problem. They always pirate whatever the hell they can find. But they don't always mean bad thing; for the record they made good mods for C&C Generals and SF2, but most of the models are ripped from the other game/someone else's work.

Heck, it was Chinese modder who found out the way to mod the hell out of HAWX to begin with. If I recall it was a matter of extracting the compressed game files and replacing the models and textures, since there's no way to modify any in-game parameters.

Edited by: Nergal01

Nergal01 wrote:

When I was in GDC a Chinese publisher told me that modern military games usually aren´t released there (because they are already sure they will end up being portrayed as the bad guys), but also the players there are not interested in playing those games either, that is why fantasy games are more popular. But as for VT, they said that being in a fictional world may help, but they are not still sure.

That part was more or less a joke, it's the fact they usually steal "borrow" someone else's model without permission. No release? No problem. They always pirate whatever the hell they can find. But they don't always mean bad thing; for the record they made good mods for C&C Generals and SF2, but most of the models are ripped from the other game/someone else's work.

Heck, it was Chinese modder who found out the way to mod the hell out of HAWX to begin with. If I recall it was a matter of extracting the compressed game files and replacing the models and textures, since there's no way to modify any in-game parameters.

Wow... I'm certainly not the one who would endorse that sort of modding.

Interesting fact: ever since Iceberg said that I could help out with marketing and stuff (not that that's ever come to anything), I've been looking at the Japanese market in particular, which has an extremely powerful and integrated modding community. I even drafted a market and situation analysis for them, because i think if the marketing is done right we could see a significant portion of our sales coming from the Japanese.

That being said, there are significant obstacles to a Japanese localisation-release- the biggest of which comes from Japanese industry nationalism- that is, the favouring of domestically produced games over foreign alternatives- there are tons of games for PSP, PS3 and Vita that haven't been exported overseas and vice-versa: big name videogames like Halo, CoD and Skyrim don't do as well in Japan as they do in other parts of the world. VT won't stand a chance if we don't market it properly and get over this initial hurdle.

The second one is the big competitor already on the scene- I'm talking about Raiders Sphere, literally a Japanese Vector Thrust franchise. It's a long-running indie series that currently spans four games, with a similar emphasis on modding like Vector Thrust. It's a more 'traditional' arcade flight sim in that it focuses on singleplayer campaign, but in terms of graphics and optimisation it's much better than VT (but in a realistic shading style so idunno) as it stands. Raiders Sphere has been around for a long time, and it's got essentially a monopoly on the entire indie arcade flight sim genre. This is also helped by the fact that Rectanglesoft allows other developers to make and SELL their mods of the game as independent projects in their own right- we have people like Rainbow Knights, Project ICKS, etc. etc. that rely on Raiders Sphere to make their games, further boosting the game's popularity. I doubt Iceberg would let us do that even if we somehow got it into Japan.

In short, VT has potential to do extremely well in a Japanese market once it has been polished and worked on (I don't think they have a concept of an 'early access' game over there), but ONLY if we can circumvent those two obstacles. I've decided to put the plans on hold for the moment because of this reason.

^ In short, when they're saying baka gaijin with this game, they'll mean it.

Edited by: flyawaynow

MyHatismyFriend wrote: Interesting fact: ever since Iceberg said that I could help out with marketing and stuff (not that that's ever come to anything), I've been looking at the Japanese market in particular, which has an extremely powerful and integrated modding community. I even drafted a market and situation analysis for them, because i think if the marketing is done right we could see a significant portion of our sales coming from the Japanese.

That being said, there are significant obstacles to a Japanese localisation-release- the biggest of which comes from Japanese industry nationalism- that is, the favouring of domestically produced games over foreign alternatives- there are tons of games for PSP, PS3 and Vita that haven't been exported overseas and vice-versa: big name videogames like Halo, CoD and Skyrim don't do as well in Japan as they do in other parts of the world. VT won't stand a chance if we don't market it properly and get over this initial hurdle.

The second one is the big competitor already on the scene- I'm talking about Raiders Sphere, literally a Japanese Vector Thrust franchise. It's a long-running indie series that currently spans four games, with a similar emphasis on modding like Vector Thrust. It's a more 'traditional' arcade flight sim in that it focuses on singleplayer campaign, but in terms of graphics and optimisation it's much better than VT (but in a realistic shading style so idunno) as it stands. Raiders Sphere has been around for a long time, and it's got essentially a monopoly on the entire indie arcade flight sim genre. This is also helped by the fact that Rectanglesoft allows other developers to make and SELL their mods of the game as independent projects in their own right- we have people like Rainbow Knights, Project ICKS, etc. etc. that rely on Raiders Sphere to make their games, further boosting the game's popularity. I doubt Iceberg would let us do that even if we somehow got it into Japan.

In short, VT has potential to do extremely well in a Japanese market once it has been polished and worked on (I don't think they have a concept of an 'early access' game over there), but ONLY if we can circumvent those two obstacles. I've decided to put the plans on hold for the moment because of this reason.

I took a look at Raider Sphere's latest entry, it may have some AC elements with it - but the graphics however look more like that of AC0 or the PSP AC games' quality [though that's a little nitpicky]. Thing is, VT could outdo RS by virtue of the fact that it doesn't have to rely on futuristic tech all the time, I mean there'll definitely be stuff like the MiG-21 and the F-8 Crusader among the warbirds players will certainly use - in other words, more variety of aircraft.

Raiders Sphere's mechanical design is inept to say the least, probably out of fear of copyright (some of the aircraft resemble the F-4, F-22, etc. but with weird distortions and stuff that makes them look weird) but their modding community has generally filled in for them. if you take a look at a modding circle called Rainbow Knights they've finished and are selling a RS3 mod called Trail of Wings, which is an Ace Combat 5 clone with tons of original content, superweapons and real-life planes as well. They've also done an ACAH clone with Assault Sphere and tons of other stuff. Having aircraft variety is a pretty small advantage to be honest.

MyHatismyFriend wrote: Raiders Sphere's mechanical design is inept to say the least, probably out of fear of copyright (some of the aircraft resemble the F-4, F-22, etc. but with weird distortions and stuff that makes them look weird) but their modding community has generally filled in for them. if you take a look at a modding circle called Rainbow Knights they've finished and are selling a RS3 mod called Trail of Wings, which is an Ace Combat 5 clone with tons of original content, superweapons and real-life planes as well. They've also done an ACAH clone with Assault Sphere and tons of other stuff. Having aircraft variety is a pretty small advantage to be honest.

They're really the kind who would go for broke, eh? But there's one community we could try [though it may not help, try as we might] to get support for modding and the like, the Falcon 4.0 modding community.

SuperHunterX wrote: the Falcon 4.0 modding community.

No. I doubt they would care about anything that is remotely as realistic as their BMS. So did every single of those so-called 'simulator' communities. For the record, they're extremely hostile towards anything arcadey. It's like every single non-simulators are their enemy.

As for Japan, it's more or less a lost cause there. It's not like we could attract them with throwing in every single JSDF assets in-game either. Plus my small-scale observation says they (read: the PC gamers, obviously)'re more interested with the likes of ArmA, DCS and stuff, not unlike everywhere else.

Edited by: Nergal01

Truth to be told, Nergal - I had my doubts about adding them to the VT modding effort.

On Japan: Historical lesson taught me that they mostly prefer anything that is highly-hyped internationally. For example, Microsoft's CFS2; if I remember they even hired the (in)famous Japanese WW2 top-ace Saburo Sakai as the tutorial narrator, plus there's Gainax (!) made a DLC pack contains various planes from various anime. But you know what happen in the end? CFS2 sort of bombed/didn't last long while Oleg's IL-2 ended up being much more popular there.

Fortunately that didn't prevent them to make several high-quality mods/planes for CFS2.

Edited by: Nergal01

Yep. Don't ever doubt the tenacity of modders out there, Nergal.

Speaking of ArmA, and mods, any mod is pretty much better than the content made by BIS for that crappy game.

Boogie_Van wrote: Speaking of ArmA, and mods, any mod is pretty much better than the content made by BIS for that crappy game.

I think that statement could apply to any mod to any game in general.

Too bad the Battlefield series can no longer be modded for now since Bad Company 2 was released.

OrangeFr3ak wrote: Too bad the Battlefield series can no longer be modded for now since Bad Company 2 was released.

Damn EA and their corporate greed!

SuperHunterX wrote:
I think that statement could apply to any mod to any game in general.

It's sort of a running joke how bad BIS is, though, I really can't put it into words:

There's also this classic:

ArmA: pseudorealism at its best. Seriously, you can't even call this crap realistic: it's not even vaguely authenticly flavored, it just looks like it is, like diet products.

Edited by: Boogie_Van

Boogie_Van wrote:

SuperHunterX wrote:
I think that statement could apply to any mod to any game in general.

It's sort of a running joke how bad BIS is, though, I really can't put it into words:

There's also this classic:

ArmA: pseudorealism at its best. Seriously, you can't even call this crap realistic: it's not even vaguely authenticly flavored, it just looks like it is, like diet products.

OK, Boogie, we get it - you don't like ARMA, but let's stay on subject here [I haven't played it, but a few animated gifs don't dissaude me].