Mechanics Thread - Vector Thrust

More than anything, this is a general discussion on the various mechanics and theories present in the game, ranging from gameplay, AI behaviors, balance and the like. This can be anything from theory to discussion of things already implemented in the game.

Ex:

• Stealth
• AI detection
• AI target designation
• Countermeasures
• Philosophy of Gameplay
• Impact of Realism on Play
• Impact of Artistic License on Play
• Aircraft Balance/Unit Roles
• AI Difficulty
• AI Behavior

I'd like to see whether the missile mechanics and such could be improved even further, like a completely rear-aspect (i.e you only can lock enemy from behind) to potray earlier generation A2A missiles, an alternative semi-active radar guided missile mechanism to ONLY have the enemy locked on instead of having you keep the enemy inside the lock circle, etc.

I don't understand what you mean about semi-active locks. Do you mean just having the enemy locked, a la normal missile, throughout the projectile's flight?

What I would like to see in the Debug Menu is the option to turn on ballistic trajectory of projectiles if possible so we can study the behavour of custom made weapons.

@ V3000TT, it was already in mind to add the condition that the weapon must stay locked in alternative to the semi-active radar circle.(as at the moment some weapons are portrayed as semi active but in fact the use other tracking system, like laser guided missiles.)
But as for the lock be depended of the orientation of the aircraft that’s a great idea, honestly I didn’t even thought of adding that, but that will surely make older homing system truly feel different.

Similar to that, using after-burniner will make the heat-seekers faster to lock.

@ IbizenThoth when V3000TT said semi-active he was referring to the homing system that ads a circle where you have to keep that target inside it order to the missile stay locked. (for example the AIM-7E)

@ Midsummersnow, can you explain ne more what you have in mind?

Well, I understand what semi-active tracking is, but how V3000TT mentioned alternative sounded like he was proposing a new/different approach to how a semi-active lock is represented.

Just wanted to see how 'simplified' SAAM mechanics work. I think there's an old game with such mechanism, but I can't remember the details.

@TS Well been able to see the ballistic trajectory (via a thin purple line when the weapon is fired perhaps? Obviously would only be active for the player, cause if it was active for all the Ai it would slow the game down) would allow modders to see how the weapon would be effected by gravity etc. and in turn help them adjust their weapons stats to make them more balanced or improve them.

@ Midsummersnow something similar to the missile trail?

I think it also includes the missile's projected flight path (i.e. a line showing where the missile is headed based on how it is affected by gravity, fuel state, etc.

timeSymmetry wrote: @ Midsummersnow something similar to the missile trail?

MyHatismyFriend wrote: I think it also includes the missile's projected flight path (i.e. a line showing where the missile is headed based on how it is affected by gravity, fuel state, etc.

Yeah like that. It could also be combined with the weapon cam as well to get a better look at the effects etc.

Edited by: mittsommerschnee

TS, you had mentioned that you would give a slightly more comprehensive explanation of the stealth/detection at another time. Does that mean that there is an upcoming report/news post coming up? If not, could you please enlighten me on the finer details of how it works?

IbizenThoth wrote: TS, you had mentioned that you would give a slightly more comprehensive explanation of the stealth/detection at another time. Does that mean that there is an upcoming report/news post coming up? If not, could you please enlighten me on the finer details of how it works?

This. Also from what I heard some planes that aren't supposed to be stealthy still could get stealth/UNDETECTED effect, might need some explanation of this.

I noticed any aircraft is marked undetected if it's completely alone, such as during a one-vs-one after the opponent is shot down.

@ IbizenThoth Yes, since I mentioned that that, the stealth mechanic explanation was postponed in case there was the need to change something.

@ V3000TT About the UNDETECTED indication, the game does not have a binary option for stealth and non stealth so any plane can become undetected.

However to preserve the gameplay until the stealth was added, any plane above 3 square meters of visibility will be considered detected regardless of any units detection capabilities.

(it’s great that you all mention this because I noticed there is no mutator that removes this visibility threshold. Without this visibility threshold, all units must detect every other unit using their own radar capabilities. This means a MiG-21 can make stealth surprise attacks against an aircraft with weak avionics, because his frontal aspect is quite low, 3.50176 m2)

@ SpootKnight the UNDETECTED indication in those situations is a side effect of the stealth mechanic.

But the stealth mechanic is now solid, so a article can be made about it very soon.

Would it be possible in the future to give a plane no radar and use the HUD to simulate visual spotting (like in WWII flight sims)?

Can you explain your idea?

It is not yet working, but the AI will be able to find targets trough visual spotting, this means no matter how stealthy are aircrafts like the Ziz they will be spotted fairly easy at long range. The spotter may not be able to acquire a lock, but they can get closer to be able to detect it better or use just the guns.

Basically if your plane does not have a radar your HUD would label nearby vehicles normally (you would be able to target them in order to use the tracking camera but not lock on) at close distances. Beyond a certain distance they would be labeled as "Bogey" (or something equally generic for surface targets) or not labeled at all. If you want to see what I'm talking about download and install a game called War Thunder and play in arcade or historical mode-you can see aircraft that are beyond spotting range (as black specks) but the game won't identify them for you.

Unrelated: Is post-stall maneuvering (for 5th gen fighters) planned?

Edited by: bornloser

bornloser wrote: Beyond a certain distance they would be labeled as "Bogey" (or something equally generic for surface targets) or not labeled at all.

AFAIK some old WW2 flight sims (CFS3?) did that too.

I have played CFS3 but I mentioned war thunder because it's free.

Edited by: bornloser

bornloser wrote: Is post-stall maneuvering (for 5th gen fighters) planned?

Is post stall maneuvering for non-vectorers planned? From what I know, even the Draken was able to execute a cobra.
Youtu.be

That's news to me but can it do a kulbit too?
(I can't tell if the High G maneuvers in AC6/AHL were supposed to imitate those maneuvers-it looked like I was powersliding a bit but I think you lose too much energy for a kulbit no matter what you are flying.)

Unrelated: I'm not entirely sure how powerful scripting languages are (I know you could do some cool stuff in CIV 4 but I don't know enough python to try it myself) but I think you could make some pretty unique campaigns (or single missions/minigames/mutators) with it. Here's an example using the Ace combat universe:

It's 1965 in Erusia and a young Edgar Grint (The leader of the chess-themed Albireo squadron in AHL) is your wingman. Some of the missions would start with you playing chess against him. It would be less complicated than it sounds-you wouldn't play a full game. Instead, you would begin the mission about to make the winning move, with the chess board in the corner of your screen, and you would have to choose from one of four possible moves (on an XBOX360 controller you would use the D-pad to do this, much like like answering questions in AC5). This would serve a similar purpose to the "face of the coin"/"back of the coin" mission forks in AC5-if you lose or take too long (causing the mission to interrupt your game) your next mission will be the default mission, but if you win your next mission would be an alternate mission that would get you better rewards. It would not be practical to make something like this part of the base game but a scripter could probably make it easily-the chess problems would just be a still images that would not change from playthrough to playthrough.

Scripting could also make between-mission "visual novel" scenes more interactive too-you could do something like piece together clippings from different newspapers to create intel that would unlock a bonus mission.

From what I know, the Draken cannot Kulbit, with the only combat aircraft capable of the maneuver being the F-22 and the various vectoring Flankers.

Gamepad users be able to set the default (all controls released) throttle position. This will improve stealth missions because players will be able to fly at full throttle without triggering the afterburner.

This is an odd request, but I's like some "hold and sweep" Lock ons. Like in Zone of the Enders and Skygunner.

Hold button, sweep over enemies, lock on to all swept over.