Helicopter wishlist Thread - Vector Thrust

A derivative of a Plane wishlist thread.

My list:

Attack helicopters:
1. Cobra (as many modifications as possible)/SuperCobra/Viper
2. Hind (as many modifications as possible)/SuperHind
3. Apache/Longbow Apache + concept for US Marine Corps
4. A129 Mongoose (as many modifications as possible)/T129
5. Mi-28/Mi-28N
6. Ka-50/Ka-52
7. Eurocopter Tiger (as many modifications as possible)
8. Rooivalk

Multi-purpose helicopters:
1. Iroquois (as many modifications as possible)/Venom
2. Black Hawk (as many modifications as possible)
3. Mi-8 (as many modifications as possible)/Mi-17
4. Ka-60
5. Eurocopter Panther (as many modifications as possible)
6. Puma/SuperPuma/Caracal

Heavy Transport Helicopters:
1. Super Stallion/Pave Low
2. Osprey
3. Chinook (as many modifications as possible)
3. Mi-26 (as many modifications as possible)

Prototype Helicopters:
1. Comanche

No Black Ghost? Nor Little Bird/Cayuse/Defender? wai.psd

Edited by: Nergal01

V3000TT wrote: No Black Ghost? Nor Little Bird/Cayuse/Defender? wai.psd

Black Ghost seem to be just a fictional model. Too few info about it.
As for little birds, I do not appreciate them that high.

Sikorsky S-67 Blackhawk and the Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne are all I need <__<
Though, I will probably put my own helo designs into VT also...

No AgustaWestland AW159? Shame on on you.

Edited by: mittsommerschnee

The UH-1 and it's gunship, aerial artillery, twin huey and venom variants should be added soon, the UH-1 is a damn iconic helicopter!

I'm just bumping this thread like Times told me to do.

And then there's that one Sikorsky X-2 thingy....

What about the Lynx?

Here's to the Anglo's; they've got a heck of a cool chopper there.

Not trying to be a AC:AH Fanatic, I for one am a fan of the older, slowerpaced games, but should we use the Heli Interface from AC:AH and "Mix it up" to give it that Times feel? Or should we go with a Simulation, where pilots have to worry about handling throttle, rudders and elevators?

timeSymmetry wrote: Before complete the implementation of the Helicopter and addition of the VTOL mechanics, it was decided to share the idea with all of you.
In this way, we all can discuss if will work or need some improvement.

Helicopter controls:

(This keyboard represents de default control scheme, it will be possible for the player to change it at will)

Move forward:

Just by pressing the Helicopter automatically pitch down and starts to move forward

Move backward:

The Helicopter pitches up at a certain angle and starts to move backward.

Climb:

Increases thrust.

Decend:

Decreases thrust.

Strafe:

The Helicopter rolls to a specific angle and starts to move sideways.

Turn:

(the mouse can also be used to turn the Helicopter)

For the VTOL aircrafts:
(Note for this example it has used the YF-16, and aircraft not capable of VTOL, just to serve as a place holder)

To Climb:

Activate [Autopilot] and increase thrust.

To descend:

Activate [Autopilot] and decrease thrust.

To strafe:

Different from the controls of the Helicopter, in the VTOL, the player controls the rotation angle.
With low rotation the aircraft moves less, but rotating to much the aircraft starts to drop.

To move forward:

Pitching down the aircraft starts to move forward, but like strafing, pitching too much and it will start to drop.
(Note: in some aircrafts increasing thrust will also make the aircraft to start move forward)

To move backward:

The same rule applies to moving backward.
(Note: turning in VTOL is the same normal mode)

And this is the idea.
The controls of the Helicopter are more suited for quick actions, and the controls of the VTOL are more oriented to precision of movement.
Still, there is something that leaves me unsatisfied.
For the Helicopter, I have some doubts if the aiming will be easy/effective.
And for VTOL, in theory may work fine but entering or leaving VTOL mode may impose some problems.

What do you think?

arazgriz25 wrote: Not trying to be a AC:AH Fanatic, I for one am a fan of the older, slowerpaced games, but should we use the Heli Interface from AC:AH and "Mix it up" to give it that Times feel? Or should we go with a Simulation, where pilots have to worry about handling throttle, rudders and elevators?

I vote for the ACAH interface, but without the magic aileron rolls or the ability to shoot bombs out of the sky. Hopefully there's a less ridiculous way to keep them from being sitting ducks.

Agreed, Born.

I can kind of see why project aces added those abilities though. According to a milblog I like to read (by a former army officer who served in vietnam and describes the military as just another government job) helicopter gunships are sitting ducks and he claims they should only be used for transportation or medevac. Never served myself so I can't offer anything firsthand, but it sound plausible.

Do helicopters carry flares?

Helicopters are more likely to carry IR jammers if I remember correctly. But Apaches can do aileron rolls >:0 Just not without dropping a fair bit.

There is a few Helis what have flare/chaff for defense.

Deciding the control scheme is one of the reasons why the Helicopters are not yet available to use, because scheme that will be selected will dictate how the final gameplay will feel.

Also for the gun turret, I see three possibilities, to aim to the same target as the lock, to add the option to use the mouse, or set it for the AI aim automatically other targets.

@bornloser, I fear that statement is very close to the truth. Without any magical abilities the Helicopters are almost like aerial tanks where I doubt we can blindly enter an enemy base and shot everything in sight.

Also from what I’m aware, attack Helicopters have various countermeasures, but they are still very vulnerable. For example if they are flying too high they are more exposed to missiles, but if they are flying low, they can use the terrain to their advantage, but even small arms can harm them, or worse a tank can snipe them down.

After the addition of the mission editor, it will be added the first playable Helicopter, but I’m certain that it will definitely require some improvements, so I thank you all in advance for any help you can give in improving the Helicopters’ gameplay.

As far as I am aware, early 4th generation aircraft had difficulty engaging helicopters at low altitude from the top, since the rotors would give weird radar returns and the terrain would interfere with doppler radars, making it difficult to get a radar lock. RPG's tend not to be a very big problem for choppers unless they're constrained to flying straight lines or hovering at low altitude in confined spaces, much like in Somalia during the Blackhawk Down incident.

If Battlefield 3's gameplay is anything to go off of, helicopters are also extremely difficult to shoot down with tanks, since calculating the proper trajectory for a shot is difficult at range.

All taken into account, helicopters would probably be pretty survivable, as long as you don't run into AA, or a fighter at altitude.

I see what you mean. Of course this speculation of tank vs helicopter is assuming that the helicopter is the line of sight of the tank.

But be aware that BF the weapons range has been down sized to match the gameplay style.

In VT the weapons ranges are down sized as well, but the Abrams has an effective range of 2~3 km. considering the muzzle velocity a helicopter pilot with a keen eye would have 2 seconds to be able to dodge it.

But only after helicopters are implemented we will really see how they stand against other units.

Well, muzzle elevation on a tank's main gun is rather limited, in addition to the fact that tanks track from side to side quite slowly, IMHO, I think that a tank's top mounted .50 gun would be the most dangerous to a helicopter.

For tank v. chopper, the helicopter probably would not have to do as much to dodge as the tank would have to have impeccable aim. For example, it's not that the helicopter has two seconds to dodge, but the tank that has to aim where the heli will be in two seconds.

Yes IbizenThoth, is true to be able to shoot a helicopter with a 2 second delay, it must be stationary, otherwise is pure luck.
But after reading all this, I am much more assured in the survivability of the helicopter.
The player just has to be aware of the potential threats and avoiding stand still, especially against multiple targets.

And in Homefront, a LMG is a Heli's worst enemy if not eliminated quickly. a M249 can have that thing shot down in 30 secs if every bullet hits.

Well, it really depends on how the game is balanced, isn't it? In most FPS games without a significant vehicle element, the gameplay is heavily biased towards the ground soldier, since it would suck to play a game where you couldn't do anything while aircraft rained death down on you the entire level. Most FPS fans don't play an FPS to feel like they're just another powerless dude fighting another man's war. The game is about being visceral and feeling powerful, while still holding to the pretense of being "real". If LMGs were a major threat to helicopters in Vector Thrust, it would make the ground soldier a grave threat, yes, but there are already too many things for a pilot to worry about, not the least among them, MANPADS at close range.

Yeah. I hate to reference AC:AH, but in the Heli missions, the guys with the Missile packs are somewhat difficult at first if you're not prepared. but in the Moscow mission.. Oh God...

About that, LMG and small arms may not be really a problem. Later the game will have armor attributes for units (actually, it is already fully implemented in code, but not in the files) so these weapons will deal less damage against soft skin vehicles.
This will also fix the nonsense of small arms destroying buildings or tanks.

But MANPADS are still a serious threat to helis, but a helicopter with a Gun should be able to dispose any enemy soldier nearby very quickly.