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Humble Indie Bundle Finally Sells Out (Forums : PC Gaming : Humble Indie Bundle Finally Sells Out) Locked
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Nov 29 2012, 2:48pm Anchor

It has finally happened. The latest Humble Indie Bundle is not indie, it is not cross-platform, it is not DRM free, and it is certainly not humble.

Blog.humblebundle.com

Was the millions of dollars that they had generated by sticking to their ideals just not good enough for them? Was all of the passionate support they received so meaningless to them that they felt they could just cast it aside like this? I am not even really angry yet, just completely numb...

Maxen1416
Maxen1416 Jack of all trades, Master of none
Nov 29 2012, 4:00pm Anchor

THQ has been going bad with all that money loss recently, thats why they did this;

but thinking that they have done this, THQ must have been reeally losing more money lately, will see what opinions Eurogamer and TotalBiscuit have soon.

Edited by: Maxen1416

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Kyou.
Kyou. Mornin.
Nov 29 2012, 5:18pm Anchor

THQ has been sinking for awhile now theyre not as rich as alot of people think they are.  The companys stocks have been all other the place that many people were sure they were going to shutdown.  THQ is not as high standing as people think they are but I know where everyone is coming from.

Seems the Community is split between what they believed the humble "INDIE" bundles meant and the goals the website had and what it has now after the THQ bundle...

Nov 29 2012, 5:25pm Anchor

Yes, it is about principles. That does not mean that the arguments can be dismissed. THQ did not play by the rules. If they did I would not be upset.

Docm30
Docm30 Snuffy
Nov 29 2012, 5:28pm Anchor

Yeah, screw those corporate shills and the money they generate for charity by practically giving away AAA games.

Nov 29 2012, 5:30pm Anchor

A good article from ars technica on the subject:Arstechnica.com

In response to Dcom30, while the charity can not be discounted, it does not justify the bundle loosing what else it once had. If you feel so strongly about it you could have donated to them yourself.

Actually, scratch that. This does a much better job at explaining it than I did: Penny-arcade.com

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Nov 29 2012, 5:47pm Anchor

Someone sounds an awful lot like an annoying hipster...

Its' a humble bundle that offers a selection of games and gives you the option to pay however much you want, if you want. Oh, the humanity.

Edited by: Cryrid

Nov 29 2012, 5:52pm Anchor

Seriously? I'm sorry but why not help out a company that had a rough time. Someone is having trouble and wanting to help them out is that not what charity really is? So you know what if you want to help out people in lesser fortune than yourself that go ahead and buy it, if you want to complain that your not getting free indie game from it, well don't complain and just hit [All Charity].

Nov 29 2012, 6:13pm Anchor

Who is talking about free games? I am not even talking about Indies, although I will concede that others have. All of the arguments raised in favour of the bundle never truly respond to the complaints raised, they just try and deflect by bringing up things that are not even really relevant to the discussion.

Of course, I was never under the impression that giving money to the developers in the Bundle was the charity component.

Also, in response to Cryrid, you notice that I have never complained about the Indie Royal bundles here, even though I do not support those. I do not have anything against the concept in theory, and they are still free to do what they want. What I dislike is what this signifies for the Humble Bundle, which always set out in the past for more. That is not me putting my own beliefs onto them - they said as much themselves. You have to be applying blinders or be totally apathetic not to see that.

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Nov 29 2012, 6:20pm Anchor

The only thing this signifies for the Humble Bundle is that the idea works, that it's a great way to sell games or give to charity, and it's open to even more games than ever before.

Nov 29 2012, 6:27pm Anchor

I do not know if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but this does not make the bundle more open. It is cutting itself off from a large swath of people who were it's most vocal supporters. By disenfranchising Linux and Mac players, as well as those who dislike DRM/Steam, they are cutting at their base. This will not harm them financially as there are so many people who will just descend like vultures on the idea of cheap games, but it does harm their reputation and can in no way be argued as being a very moral or "charitable" move. As one of the disenfranchised, I definitely do not feel like this has made the bundle open to more people.

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Nov 29 2012, 7:20pm Anchor

I'm sorry for this sarcasm, but boo-friggin-hoo.
It in no way cuts itself off from real supporters; people who will are willing to pay for a group of games they might enjoy and or support charity in the process. Just a few annoying and entitled hipsters who are now upset because gamers can now use this awesome service model to buy games that aren't as underground as you might prefer. It's like you wanted to keep a new band all to yourself, and now you're mad because other people are enjoying their music too, making your little club feel a lot less little. That's the vibe you're giving off here; you liked Humble Bundles before it was cool, but now that they're offering steam packages, it's somehow uncharitable ("inarguably uncharitable" even, despite giving the option to donate 100% of the proceeds to charity with no humble tip at all... that's seriously the argument now being put forth by this butt hurt).   Look, there's still going to be indie bundles, and they're probably still going to be the same deal as before . What this does is open up seven more games to a large group of gamers who otherwise wouldn't have had this opportunity. I don't know how to break this apparent bubble to you, but not every game supports Linux and Mac. If these options aren't available, then it's not HB's fault. If you're waiting for a game like Saints Row 3 to arrive drm free for every platform purely for HB and nothing else, then don't hold your breath. At the end of the day 220k+ sales is far greater than none; these games are now more open to gamers than ever before just by virtue of this bundle existing.

Nov 29 2012, 7:41pm Anchor

The only reason why you do not feel "butt hurt", as you so inelegantly put it, is that you do not seem to have ever really cared about what the Humble Bundles were. People's reasons for supporting the bundle were varied yes, and some were just in it for the cheap games or the charity aspect. But the bundle's promised a hell of a lot more than that, a fact you are quick to dismiss for little to no acceptable reasons. They promised a source for DRM free titles. They promised a source for cross-platform titles (this was arguably the strongest aspect of the bundles up until now, going back to the beginning).

Keep in mind that up until now half the sales from each bundle were from Mac and Linux. And now that they have just decided to silence us we have become "annoying and entitled hipsters". We have supported them from the beginning, but now because THQ does not give a shit about us we are suddenly a problem. I am glad that it is you saying that, because if it came from the HIB guys that would be utterly damning. I am perfectly aware that not every game supports Mac and Linux. But every Humble game did. It was part of the HIB guarantee. That is gone now. And we have the right to be upset.

And yes, I am more committed to the "underground" than you - I notice I have tons of games on Desura for instance when you have none. That in no way invalidates my point. I am not even that upset at the idea of big commercial titles being in the bundle. What I am upset about is them being in a bundle that does not follow the rules of a bundle. That they are getting a free ride when so many other developers had to put so much effort in to meet the Humble Bundle's standards. I do not think that makes my views invalid either. I just think I am being fair. They are not.

You are not going to agree with me of course, and will continue to try and place me and everyone else who is vocal about this issue into this easy to understand box you have built for us. But that does not make my points invalid. And that is all I care about.

Edited by: hamishwilson

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Nov 30 2012, 6:19pm Anchor

Quote: We have supported them from the beginning, but now because THQ does not give a shit about us we are suddenly a problem.

Quote:And yes, I am more committed to the "underground" than you

Quote:And now that they have just decided to silence us we have become "annoying and entitled hipsters".

 

No, sentences like that are what make you an annoying and entitled hipster. You're "being silenced" by a distributor just because you can't buy a product that doesn't even exist?  Move over Malala Yousafzai and Ai Weiwei, we have a true victim of censorship here. So brave. 

Your points are invalid without any citation. The reality is, THQ doesn't owe you squat and neither does a Humble Bundle. Where is it written and guaranteed that all of their bundles, until the end of time, would have to be drm free and cross platform?  Looking at the earlier bundles, I'm just not seeing these promises. Just because the Indie Bundles tend to have a certain deal doesn't mean every humble bundle would. 

Lol at comparing Desura collections. You're so cool.  

Nov 30 2012, 6:48pm Anchor

I never said that I was being censored, nor was I implying that the Humble Bundle was trying to silence us. I was saying you were, which is true. I was also saying that they were ignoring their base, which is also true.

But you have got to be kidding me when you claim the Bundles never made any promises. There is an image floating about that basically sums it up better than I ever could do in words. This is Jeffery Rosen's own words here, not mine. I am projecting nothing onto him:
Dl.dropbox.com

The Humble Bundles were about being DRM free. They were about being cross-platform. They have now moved away from that. They have sold out their principles. Just because you do not care about them does not mean they have not. Just because you think they were never important does not mean that they were not there. To grab a wonderful quote that someone else posted on the subject, " Sometimes bitching has a root cause that cannot be flippantly dismissed because it doesn't match your priorities."

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Nov 30 2012, 7:24pm Anchor

Silenced means censored, and the phrasing of your sentence and paragraph is completely wrong if you had truly intended to say that I was the one trying to silence you. You were talking about THQ and HB, omitted any indication of the word trying (nay, as you put it, they were indeed silencing you), and then continued to refer to them as them. Things just don't hold up. 

It's great you think that they are ignoring their base, but following the apparent pattern, it's not true simply because you say it is. As it currently stands, this bundle has already raised more than most of the previous bundles managed to, with more purchasers backing it (as opposed to Notch dropping several digits). The base is stronger than the vocal minority. 

Even that image contains no explicit promise that all bundles will remain DRM free. He was told not to worry about HIB2, and lo and  behold, there was no DRM on that. Promise kept. 

The Humble Bundles were about promoting games and having a charity drive. It was humble in name not because of cross platform or drm, but because it was asking only what the customer felt  they wanted to pay. That's why it was always promoted chiefly with [pay what you want], not [play it on linux too!'], and why it's not called the DRMless Bundle. Just because you think they had rules that existed doesn't mean they actually did. Just because you think features are important in a deal doesn't mean they actually are. Just because you think they sold out and stabbed gamers in the back doesn't mean they actually did. Here's a quote for you:

...and sometimes it doesn't.

Nov 30 2012, 7:53pm Anchor

Well, my grammar was not that great on that point, something I attribute to having had a long day yesterday and a killer headache. Call that just an excuse if you will, but I think the fact that I said "I am glad that it is you saying that..." in my original post shows my authenticity.

The image I linked to also means a lot more than you tend to make out. He did not say "well, with humble indie bundle 2 we will not do it", he said "that is the polar opposite of what the humble bundle is about!". Again, you are sidestepping the issue. The current bundle is, by his own words, the polar opposite of what the humble bundle (note the humble bundle, not humble indie bundle) is about. 

I also do not really see why you are getting so irate over this. I understand why I am, as I feel it to be dishonourable to turn on your established principles. I am also on the short end on the stick here when it comes to the titles being offered, so there is a bit of personal interest. But I really do not get you. You obviously never cared about "what the humble bundle is about!", so why do you feel the need to argue the point with me? Especially since it is obviously clear that neither of us can dislodge the other from their assumed positions.

And yes, the THQ Bundle has been a financial success. I never denied that. But I know for a fact that is without the assistance of half of their previous customers, a strong part of their inherit base. There are a lot of people who like the idea of getting cheap Steam keys. I understand their motivation. But I do not share it. And so do plenty of other past and future HIB supporters. Just because they have reached a new audience does not mean they have not turned on their base with this one.

Edited by: hamishwilson

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Nov 30 2012, 8:56pm Anchor
Quote:but I think the fact that I said "I am glad that it is you saying that..." in my original post shows my authenticity.

It shows the lack of ability to form a sound point. You were saying that because "they decided to silence you", that that was the reason I was now calling you an annoying entitled hipster (coincidentally, it was your lack of silence that forged this opinion). And then you immediately went back to talking about they and them, not being me. What I find more likely is that you realized you are over doing the martyr card with your first-world problem, and since you're not getting the support one might have guessed would come from an indie-based community such as this, you're in backtrack mode. That's just a hunch, the world will never know. 

 

Quote:The image I linked to also means a lot more than you tend to make out. He did not say "well, with humble indie bundle 2 we will not do it", he said "that is the polar opposite of what the humble bundle is about!".

The "Humble Bundle", at the point in time he stated that, literally being the one and only Humble (Indie) Bundle. 

It's funny you would try to pin me as the irate one despite me not creating a thread to try and find others to share in a circlejerk over this nerdrage. The reason I post is simple; I find you highly disagreeable. I know what the Bundle is about, which is why I have supported it in the past and will continue to support it instead of trying to rally others against its now more mainstream. 

And no, the success is not without the assistance of half of their previous customers. You keep using the word fact, but I don't think you know what it means. You are falsely assuming (something you do quite frequently)  that people who happen to use a Mac or Linux (or have used them in the past sales) do not also have a Windows partition or machine, or that they wouldn't still contribute to this bundle in order to donate to charity and give the gift of games and music to others.  The base is as strong as ever, the loudest don't speak for the majority regardless of how hard you whine. Perhaps that is what stings you the most about this whole thing, the realization that the majority out there are actually doing it for the love of the games and/or for the charity,  and that they are actually the true base, not you. 

Nov 30 2012, 10:06pm Anchor

I'm just glad they got back to selling quality games vs all those mini-games since the first bundle or two.  I haven't bought one since June 2011 (I checked) because, frankly, they're not worth it.

I don't care about supporting a charity or whatever, I want a quality game and I want the developer to get their reward for their hard work.  The last bundle I bought was just for Crayon Physics (although Atom Zombie Smasher because a favorite quickly).  This is the first bundle where I said "Hey, I'd like more the one game!".

To bad other companies don't run with this idea sometimes.

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Nov 30 2012, 10:17pm Anchor

I will admit to being heavy with emotion on this, something I would never deny. I also see no point about arguing what you think of me as that is really your opinion and your right but may or may not have anything to do with reality. 
 
I am not falsely assuming that Linux users are not buying the bundle - I know they are not because I am one of them and I have been talking with them about the whole thing for awhile now. I have also  been working and building a gaming community with them for the past seven years. Mac users was an assumption, but as I would not want to insult them by alleging that they are not as loyal to their chosen platform as Linux users, I included them in my calculations. But I know a hell of lot more about Linux users and the community than you do. Call me a hipster because I do if you wish, but I do not regret for one secound being apart of it. There are some individual exceptions yes, but then there are also the Windows users I have seen who are not buying the Bundle because of the DRM requirement, so I think it evens out.

You have never strung a cogent argument to state that the Humble Bundle has not moved away from it's principles. I have shown you that they said that things would be different, and you have not been able to dismiss that. You have also never formed a cogent argument that says that they have not moved away from a large part of their established base. Instead, you have either said that what they have done does not matter, or that since the "majority" does not care that it does not matter. Both I dispute, and I am free to dispute. You are free to dispute me as well, although much of your argument has been pinning names on me which is really not fair, since I have been attacking actions not people.

The simple truth of the matter is the Bundle was about more than this. You have never been able to truly debate that. Instead, you have chosen to cast that off as irrelevant, and for you it is. But to me it is not irrelevant. And you can not change my mind on that by insulting me.

TheHappyFriar wrote:I'm just glad they got back to selling quality games vs all those mini-games since the first bundle or two.  I haven't bought one since June 2011 (I checked) because, frankly, they're not worth it.

Well, I can not really debate your choice in games, but to find Amnesia, Psychonauts, Rochard, Torchlight, and the like to be "mini-games" is a strange notion to me.

Edited by: hamishwilson

Nov 30 2012, 11:07pm Anchor

Linux user/gamer here too and yes I did not buy this Bundle. I'd rather donate to the charity directly. And maybe buy some THQ games directly from Steam or something if I felt inclined to do so. But I could not support this Bundle, as is, for much of the reason the OP states.

I think the problem for many of us is that the Humble Bundle, besides just being a great source of cheap games (if you choose to pay that way) and charity giving, was also one of the very few we could rely on to spruik DRM-free and cross-platform stuff. And I feel this is extremely important for the benefit of us all.
I personally hate most DRM, besides Steam which I tolerate for various reasons, and cross-platform is certainly great where possible. Certainly we Linux users benefited with the ports that were done for the Bundles and we paid well for them. Probably another reason Valve has taken notice with Steam for Linux.

Then big-name THQ came along and HB basically bends over without a whimper and instantly abandons those principles and trust they have built, without any forewarning.  HB then seems like yet another business seeing the $$$ signs and instantly what "the Humble Bundle is all about!" gets a big sledgehammer to the face. They become yet another typical games distributor, admittedly with a neat pay model and charity contribution.

I know there will be future indie Bundles, all with DRM-free and cross-platform etc. Yeah that's great, I'll purchase them no doubt. But this is still disappointing, because a precedent is now set for larger companies to not even bother considering DRM-free or porting to a wider audience. They can stroll in and do what they like, a problem we're already facing with large corporations.

Perhaps it would have been better if they had done this as a separate thing, instead of under the Humble Bundle "brand".

Nov 30 2012, 11:56pm Anchor

I guess if you really wanted to support your indie developer of choice you wouldn't of waited for a bundle, you'd already own the game, eh?   So why not let those "evil corporations" sell their games at a huge loss?  You'll get more indie developers then.  Of course, until THEY "sell out" for being popular and all, wanting to feed their babies, wives, pay the mortgage, eat, etc..

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Dec 1 2012, 12:16am Anchor

^ I've read the above post over and over and still can't quite make out the point being made.
A lot of the games in the Bundles I already DID own. What I loved is the fact that once they hit the Bundle they were DRM-free and you could download them, archive, whatever AND redeem a Steam key. You can't get much better than that and IMO it's a model that should be taken notice of elsewhere (though I think GOG.com does this), as DRM is useless at the end of the day anyhow.
So besides supporting indies and charity, it was worth buying anyway.

Dec 1 2012, 12:44am Anchor

And we are not attacking THQ for being big or trying to save themselves from their own demise - we are upset that they are doing so by subverting an already established and previously prinicipled and important brand. If they had put in the same effort that all of the other HIB developers had done we would not be arguing about it now.

Dec 1 2012, 4:43am Anchor

I understand some people are happy with the THQ bundle just because they've got some really cheap games, it's maybe stinginess or poverty. You wouldn't ever had this bargain if the previous humble bundles didn't succeed, and they succeeded thanks to indie developers and commited users not looking for a cheap buy but for a fair and reasonable deal. They clearly stated the Humble Bundle was the drm-free, cross-platform, charity and fair deal, and that's why they got so much publicity and support. Big corporations wouldn't ever have supported such experiment, they only engage it now that is a fully explored path, and they do profiting from the good image the Humble Bundle has gotten. To make things worse, developers won't get anything in this bundle since everything will go to the publisher and most developers were already layed off.

So:
 - no profit to developers,
 - charity alone isn't a point, they clearly haven't done it for the charity, it's just the excuse,
 -  no advantages to users, just cheap.

This is about giving to some executives  while giving a bit to charity to make it look nice while you get some cheap games.

You can keep saying that all that matters is you getting cheap games, just that three words matter: you, cheap, games. That's the image you make of yourself. Love for the games and/or the charity? You could give to chartity when you wanted, maybe we're talking about a huge love for yourself. If that's truly the user base the HB has, it will become another big corporation not selling any more cheap games, let drm-free, cross-platform, indie alone.

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