Forum Thread
by member
  Posts  
Humble Indie Bundle Finally Sells Out (Forums : PC Gaming : Humble Indie Bundle Finally Sells Out) Locked
Thread Options 1 2 3 4
Dec 1 2012, 5:06am Anchor
hamishwilson wrote:And we are not attacking THQ for being big or trying to save themselves from their own demise - we are upset that they are doing so by subverting an already established and previously prinicipled and important brand. If they had put in the same effort that all of the other HIB developers had done we would not be arguing about it now.

So developing big games is no effort? Look, THQ, as you said, is trying to save themselves, keeping workplaces and of course their money. Try to imagine. They are searching for a way to do so, and suddenly someone says: 
"Hey, I know that cool Humble Bundle, let´s ask them about selling our games."
They might have argued alot, because they are selling AAA games for a very low price.
"Will this little effort save us?" - "It is worth a try, isn´t it?"
So they are asking the man behind HB. Most of them probably played games of THQ, and liked them, so they of course try to help. But there are problems.
Cross-plattform? - THQ: "These games are not cross-plattform, we cannot effort doing it just for the bundle."
DRM-free? - THQ: "DRM-free? No way. That would ruin us."
So HB cannot deliver cross-plattform and DRM-free this time, but next time they probalby will, time will show.
I am not the wise guy, but i would imagine it had run this way. I do not see any source of anger in that. Just a company helping another.

Dec 1 2012, 7:36am Anchor

I may as well chime in, im guessing all the people that are defending this bundle are Windows users.

Let me just throw this in this mix which Hamish dug up on my website coming from the main guy from Humble Bundle.

Polar Opposite.

This is just a money grab by Humble and THQ and not what they are supposed to be about which again i shall repeat others:
DRM-Free, Cross Platform, Charity.
NOT
DRM, For one service only, One platform only, Charity.

Dec 1 2012, 8:59am Anchor

This whole arguing over this bundle honestly makes no sense to me.

First off, its partly for charity so its instantly earned its merit for me of being worthwhile. Secondly THQ are an awesome company that produce some (although not mine) peoples favourite games who, as well as the charity, could really use some money to stay afloat and employ its massive company's that give employees jobs and keep people doing what they love. and its not like the whole DRM thing is truly effecting any one. 

Why all of a sudden jumping on the its not indie bandwagon?? A huge percentage of the bundles (Not just HB ones) have not been indie for ages and no one cared then.

I feel like this whole thing is only going to later fuel the gamers are entitled pricks argument again. HB owe people nothing. They have made thousands of dollars for charity's and indie developers which people love and support and then 1 time they decide to help a AAA studio and people bring out the pitchforks. 

Take a step back, put on your raybands and upload some pictures with instragram to tumblr of you wine tasting in the hipster underground palace that you live in and think about the wider picture beyond yourself and your own ideals.

--


Someone wrote:Her?
Dec 1 2012, 9:40am Anchor

Make sure you entitled gamers don't spend your "hard earned" money on this (and by "this" I mean the charity) and keep on fighting the good non-existent fight!

Dec 1 2012, 10:01am Anchor
figalot wrote:They have made thousands of dollars for charity's and indie developers which people love and support and then 1 time they decide to help a AAA studio and people bring out the pitchforks.

That is what I mean, just a bit drastically. They do not betray anyone, they just want to help.
And please stop insulting each other. There is no point in that.

Dec 1 2012, 11:17am Anchor

I'm in the "why are people fighting over this" camp.

To the people who say they are betrayed. Does this mean you will never buy another Humble Bundle, and what about all the other bundle like Indie Royal? They had DRM and the like.

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Dec 1 2012, 12:49pm Anchor

Quote:I understand some people are happy with the THQ bundle just because they've got some really cheap games, it's maybe stinginess or poverty. You wouldn't ever had this bargain if the previous humble bundles didn't succeed, and they succeeded thanks to indie developers and commited users not looking for a cheap buy but for a fair and reasonable deal.

Except that's not the case. One has to look no further than the average sale price for every bundle. If they're putting up something with an estimated bundle of $80+ and the average is only sitting around 5-10 at the highest, you're fooling yourself if you think the success was anything other than the pay-what-you-want model. Being able to set your own price and give to charity is what has always been the heart of HB, and the main reason for the majority of the sales (pay what you want contributing to the lower sales, charity to the higher). I think the original indie games bundled needed that extra push of being cross platform and drm free in order to help hook a potential audience who might not have heard of them as it lightens the perceived risk, but I don't think that's the case once they started to release more well known names. Were a larger company to do the same thing, selling a bundle of their games that aren't that-outdated and giving the user the option to pay what they want (including giving 100% of the proceeds to a charity like Child's Play), sales would be just as successful as what we're seeing now with THQ

Quote:If they had put in the same effort that all of the other HIB developers had done we would not be arguing about it now.


Yes, I'm sure a studio full of people each contributing years of their time and pooled knowledge to create a game as big as Saints Row 3 pales in effort to what it took to develop something like VVVVVV. I can only imagine how far one's spine must have bent in order to make sure that one could work on any computer. 

Quote:This is just a money grab by Humble and THQ and not what they are supposed to be about

Yes, it's such a blatant money grab by Humble and THQ to offer people a service in which they can take in $0 per donor.  

Edited by: Cryrid

Dec 1 2012, 3:56pm Anchor
figalot wrote: and its not like the whole DRM thing is truly effecting any one.

If this is what people think, enjoy your future of SecuROMS and GFWL and what not.

Quote:Take a step back, put on your raybands and upload some pictures with instragram to tumblr of you wine tasting in the hipster underground palace that you live in and think about the wider picture beyond yourself and your own ideals.

This is a tad rich to be honest. The whole point of our arguments for little to no tolerance of DRM and HB to hold to their values is to think about the wider picture and the future and for everyone to be better off.

But look this entire thread is doomed as most of you seem to be happy to just get some cheap AAA games; that's fine. Enjoy.

Edited by: ElderSnake

Dec 1 2012, 10:04pm Anchor
Someone wrote:But look this entire thread is doomed as most of you seem to be happy to just get some cheap AAA games; that's fine. Enjoy.

Because fuck charity.

--


Someone wrote:Her?
Dec 1 2012, 11:53pm Anchor
figalot wrote:First off, its partly for charity so its instantly earned its merit for me of being worthwhile. Secondly THQ are an awesome company that produce some (although not mine) peoples favourite games who, as well as the charity, could really use some money to stay afloat and employ its massive company's that give employees jobs and keep people doing what they love. and its not like the whole DRM thing is truly effecting any one. 

I love how people interweave the conception of helping save THQ as being part of the charity component. Look, THQ is just a company like any other, just like Hostess was a company just like anyone other. So unless you were out their desperately trying to save the Twinkie and building up revenue in order to make sure that it's employees continue to have a roof over their heads, you can get off your high horses on this one. And yes, the fact that the Red Cross and the like is getting some money is good. But that was never the reason for the argument, nor does it in anyway make speaking out about the real issues involved here any less important.  

figalot wrote:Why all of a sudden jumping on the its not indie bandwagon?? A huge percentage of the bundles (Not just HB ones) have not been indie for ages and no one cared then.

Yes, that is true. I fully admit a title like Psychonauts, which received enough publisher funds to tank a major publisher back in the day, is not really Indie (although Double Fine does now qualify as an Indie developer). My complaint is not really because the titles are AAA.

figalot wrote:I feel like this whole thing is only going to later fuel the gamers are entitled pricks argument again. HB owe people nothing. They have made thousands of dollars for charity's and indie developers which people love and support and then 1 time they decide to help a AAA studio and people bring out the pitchforks. 

But that is not why people are upset about is it? That was never why, and by saying it is you are just trying to distract people from the real issues. And if you do not understand that now I have trouble believing you ever will.

figalot wrote:Take a step back, put on your raybands and upload some pictures with instragram to tumblr of you wine tasting in the hipster underground palace that you live in and think about the wider picture beyond yourself and your own ideals.

It is a generally accepted rule that people who try to cast off other people with different views into tiny clichéd stereotypes live in very narrow-minded and small worlds. I think I will leave this at that.

SabreXT wrote:To the people who say they are betrayed. Does this mean you will never buy another Humble Bundle, and what about all the other bundle like Indie Royal? They had DRM and the like.

Well, I personally will continue to buy Bundles which provide value to me, yes. But I will not be able to look at them in the same way again.

Cryrid wrote:I think the original indie games bundled needed that extra push of being cross platform and drm free in order to help hook a potential audience who might not have heard of them as it lightens the perceived risk, but I don't think that's the case once they started to release more well known names.


So, we were needed to get the things off the ground, but now that it is successful we can just fuck off? We paid more individually for each Bundle that supported us than any other platform, but now we do not matter? I am very glad it is you saying that and not Jeffery Rosen, even if the embittered side of me does feel a bit that they do in fact feel that way regarding this. But I know that there is more going on there than that.

Cryrid wrote:Yes, I'm sure a studio full of people each contributing years of their time and pooled knowledge to create a game as big as Saints Row 3 pales in effort to what it took to develop something like VVVVVV. I can only imagine how far one's spine must have bent in order to make sure that one could work on any computer. 

 

Actually, bringing up 
VVVVVV is an interesting example, as that one actually had to have it's base engine completely rewritten to become cross-platform. So yes, there was a considerable amount of work involved, proportionally more so than it would have taken for an established developer with lots of competent and experienced hands to do (a base port can take as little as two to four weeks, at least if you use an experienced contractor, although outside factors can delay it a bit). There is no real reason why the games could not have been ported, just being a AAA title does not make it any harder than being an Indie. To say that it could not be done is just a boardroom fantasy.

Hell, on this point it would even be fine if we were promised a port eventually. We are still waiting on Vessel on Mac and Linux, and despite some minor grumbling the community has shown an amazing amount of patience. There was no need to abandon it other than THQ not really being humble enough for it, which is interesting for a dyeing developer.

Cryrid wrote:Yes, it's such a blatant money grab by Humble and THQ to offer people a service in which they can take in $0 per donor. 



I would usually not get so irate about such a minor point, but it just shows you have bothered to read anything anybody else has said on this, even the Bundle guys yourselves when you make such a blatantly false assertion. 

"Buying all these blockbuster titles and soundtracks on their own would cost upwards of $190, but we’re letting you name your price! Just one dollar is required to get Steam* keys (beat the average price to get a Steam key for Saints Row: The Third), and the soundtracks are yours for any amount!"

Now, I know this is to prevent people gaming their keys with Steam and not really due to a distrust in the pay what you want scheme. But still, please pay attention if you are going to try and project such an authoritative air.

John_Harrison wrote:And please stop insulting each other. There is no point in that.

 

Fair enough. Why don't we? 

Edited by: hamishwilson

Dec 2 2012, 12:07am Anchor
HamishWilson wrote:So unless you were out their desperately trying to save the Twinkie and building up revenue in order to make sure that it's employees continue to have a roof over their heads, you can get off your high horses on this one.

What the fuck is a twinkie?

HamishWilson wrote:But that is not why people are upset about is it? That was never why, and by saying it is you are just trying to distract people from the real issues. And if you do not understand that now I have trouble believing you ever will.

Yes this is exactly what people are being upset about. People, like yourself, feel entitled to something that they have done nothing to deserve. 

Hamish in a civilised matter what exactly are you annoyed (or in your words "numb") about?

Is it the fact that it isn't an indie bundle but rather AAA?
Is it because it is not DRM free?
Is it because its not cross platform?

--


Someone wrote:Her?
Dec 2 2012, 12:16am Anchor
figalot wrote:What the fuck is a twinkie?

All right, I am starting to warm to you for that one. ;)

figalot wrote:Yes this is exactly what people are being upset about. People, like yourself, feel entitled to something that they have done nothing to deserve.

That is what you assume we are upset about, or what you hope we are upset about in order to allow you to just write off our criticism. What we actually are complaining about has no bearing on that.

figalot wrote:Is it the fact that it isn't an indie bundle but rather AAA?

Well, much as I like Indie developers and think it a more competitive model, no that does not particularly bother me that much. It is still different though.

figalot wrote:Is it because it is not DRM free?

Yes, because that is the polar opposite of what the Bundles were supposed to be about and supporting.

figalot wrote:Is it because its not cross platform?

Definitely, and this is the point of contention which is the closet to my heart, although it is not more important than the DRM complaint. The Humble Bundles gave us a voice, a voice we helped build with them. At the exact moment they could have used that voice to give the community the best dividends they forgot about us. That stings, especially considering their past and the level of support we gave them.

Also, speaking of VVVVVV Terry Cavanagh has now chimed in on it:

Twitter.com 

Edited by: hamishwilson

Dec 2 2012, 12:54am Anchor

I really apologize for the bluntness here but, You're looking a gift horse in the mouth here. It's a website that bundles games for charity, and you have the audacity to complain that it segregates the mac users, and non steam users? You know what? I bought it, and I only own a mac, you wanna know why? I support charity and people who are in trouble financially. Sure I'm happy to buy one bundle to give to a friend a donate to a cause. Look if you want a DRM free, multi system compatible game bundle, just wait a few months and stop complaining about THQ being on their ass. Oh and Hostess factory workers are trying to restart the company and buy it durring bankruptcy. Just letting you know that.

Dec 2 2012, 2:30am Anchor

Yeah maybe they will do a mac only bundle next time...

Dec 2 2012, 3:56am Anchor

Interesting that you brought up me complaining about segregating Mac users when I am not one, although I support the cross-platform nature of the bundle and would still be upset if Linux users were getting better treatment than Mac or Windows users.

The thing is, I am not begrudging charity. I am not even saying that you should not buy the bundle if you find it to suit your purposes. I am not even really that upset at THQ, as they probably think they are being very generous with this, and under their terms they probably are. I am complaining about the bundles turning on their principles, and abandoning what made them distinct, special, and of greater value than all of the others. I am complaining about them turning their back, at least this time, on what help made them mean something. That is the argument. And no one has really been able to dispute that. And I find them having done that to be disagreeable. And here we are.

Anything else is secondary. The simple truth is the bundle is about more than this. It stood for more than this. And I am sad to see that go, even if it is just for one outing or several. You can not dissuade me from that without addressing my root concerns.
 
I do appreciate the fact that you really considered your words there though MrFidelmios, and hope that will help keep this a more civil dialogue.

Edited by: hamishwilson

Dec 2 2012, 5:09am Anchor
hamishwilson wrote: The thing is, I am not begrudging charity. I am not even saying that you should not buy the bundle if you find it to suit your purposes. I am not even really that upset at THQ, as they probably think they are being very generous with this, and under their terms they probably are. I am complaining about the bundles turning on their principles, and abandoning what made them distinct, special, and of greater value than all of the others. I am complaining about them turning their back, at least this time, on what help made them mean something. That is the argument. And no one has really been able to dispute that. And I find them having done that to be disagreeable. And here we are. 

 
Why do you imply HB betraying you. I think they did not decide to leave you out, they just wanted to help THQ. Since they have financial problems, they probably do not think about porting. They need quick solutions before they can think about longer effects. I do not know their reasons, but for me it is not HB determining it is not cross-plattform but THQ. I do not know about ports to other operating systems, but ports from consoles are sometimes very bad if you do not work correctly, and do you want a bad port? THQ says no, HB maybe do not like that, but since they want to help this company they sell it. They might know it is against their values, but their wish to help is stronger. Please think about this possibility. The same for DRM. This are AAA titles, THQ is big, and piracy is a huge fear of big companies (not accusing anyone here of being a pirate, just for comprehension).
 

hamishwilson wrote: I love how people interweave the conception of helping save THQ as being part of the charity component. THQ is just a company like any other 

No offence, but it is a company like any other, which gives people work, of course tries to earn money, publishes great games and deserves to exist. Maybe it is not that charity component like for the red cross, but people can pay 1000 dollars and give all to THQ, so it can be charity for THQ.

Dec 2 2012, 6:13am Anchor

I finally decide to sign up for Desura, because a game I want is available here, and this is the first thread, that greets me.
 Get your heads out of your asses. THQ is in deep trouble (primarily due to uDraw), and does a firesale of some awesome games. Granted, DRM-ridden Windows-only steam-only games, but that doesn't change this is a hell of a deal.Remember they don't claim this was a "Humble Indie Bundle", they have been doing a lot of shit recently. Be it ebooks, music, mobile games, and whatever that Double Fine thing was supposed to be.
 You people remind me of girls that throw a fit just because they see their boyfriend talk with another girl.Drive your hybrid cars, suffocate on your farts, only buy organic, act according to your male guilt complex, but don't bother the rest of the world with it.You are everything that is wrong with "indies" and the so-called "gaming culture" - which doesn't actually exist, and is a thing super-imposed by self-important people contributing nothing to the creation of games.

Dec 2 2012, 6:34am Anchor
kaisoku wrote:I finally decide to sign up for Desura, because a game I want is available here, and this is the first thread, that greets me.
 Get your heads out of your asses. THQ is in deep trouble (primarily due to uDraw), and does a firesale of some awesome games. Granted, DRM-ridden Windows-only steam-only games, but that doesn't change this is a hell of a deal.Remember they don't claim this was a "Humble Indie Bundle", they have been doing a lot of shit recently. Be it ebooks, music, mobile games, and whatever that Double Fine thing was supposed to be.
 You people remind me of girls that throw a fit just because they see their boyfriend talk with another girl.Drive your hybrid cars, suffocate on your farts, only buy organic, act according to your male guilt complex, but don't bother the rest of the world with it.You are everything that is wrong with "indies" and the so-called "gaming culture" - which doesn't actually exist, and is a thing super-imposed by self-important people contributing nothing to the creation of games.

kaisoku, you do not get their point correct. You are right, it is an absolutly good deal, but this is not what they are upset about.
The way you comment does not help either. Please stop insulting. You will not reach anything in this way.

Dec 2 2012, 6:39am Anchor

What the hell are you talking about?
There isn't even one insult in my post.

Dec 2 2012, 7:36am Anchor

Kaisoku I 100% agree with you. Its just people being difficult.

--


Someone wrote:Her?
Dec 2 2012, 8:16am Anchor
kaisoku wrote: You people remind me of girls that throw a fit just because they see their boyfriend talk with another girl.Drive your hybrid cars, suffocate on your farts, only buy organic, act according to your male guilt complex, but don't bother the rest of the world with it.

People could feel offended about that.

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Dec 2 2012, 11:24am Anchor
Quote:My complaint is not really because the titles are AAA.

Then why was that the very first thing you mentioned?

Quote:It is a generally accepted rule that people who try to cast off other people with different views into tiny clichéd stereotypes live in very narrow-minded and small worlds.

The hypocrisy of this statement is amazing, but fits with the general attitude of accusing people of only wanting cheap games, as if that's never  happened during a sale. 

Quote:Well, I personally will continue to buy Bundles which provide value to me, yes

That's what it has been about since day one. Spending money if you think it provides value to you. Most people, if they see something that doesn't provide value to them, shrug and go about their lives. They don't whine like entitled pratts about being stabbed in the back, pretending they were told to fuck off. 

 

Quote:So, we were needed to get the things off the ground, but now that it is successful we can just fuck off? We paid more individually for each Bundle that supported us than any other platform, but now we do not matter?

Nope, they needed certain things to get THOSE bundles off the ground. If AAA titles were offered from day one, such additions would not have been neccessary to see success. And linux users contributing more money means squat when all it takes is one high roller to inflate the price for everyone, especially when there are fewer purchasers to average it out over (and don't act like you're all contributing 8-16k).

 

Quote:Actually, bringing up VVVVVV is an interesting example, as that one actually had to have it's base engine completely rewritten to become cross-platform.So yes, there was a considerable amount of work involved, proportionally more so than it would have taken for an established developer with lots of competent and experienced hands to do...just being a AAA title does not make it any harder than being an Indie.

This is a very, very sad argument that shows how out of thouch you are with reality. The effort it would take to rewrite VVVVV is NOTHING compared to rewriting one such as Saints Row 3. VVVVV was rewritten for the HB precisely because it wasn't going to be a difficult task for someone to handle in a short amount of time. Making sure a sidescroller like that can run on anything more advanced than a watch is nothing like getting an advanced 3d world to do the same. 

Quote:Now, I know this is to prevent people gaming their keys with Steam

Oh, so you actually know your argument is a lie, yet you still insist otherwise? Good to know.

Edited by: Cryrid

Dec 2 2012, 11:25am Anchor

Holy shit man, that's darwinism to adapt and thrive. If you complain about something like this, I wonder how angry you'll get if you get a Big Mac with 3 pickles instead of just two, I bet they'll be going against their ways too eh? It's not like HB is going to go pure no DRM Free, one platform thing from now on. The thing that bug me most of all about your logic, is you are begrudging them the right to make a quick buck. That sense of logic is wrong, they own a company, they have the power, and well they can do what they want. The thing that made them special is a Bundle of indie games for charity, now they take one bundle and turn it into a non indie one and suddenly your up in flames.

You know you should be complaining about other bundling website like IndieGala, or Groupees, places that need complaints, not a one time fling with a failing corporation. All in all I hope you find this entire thing foolish, there is no possible way that a bundle deal for cheap AAA games, that helps a good cause (THQ or not) that doesn't steal your credit card, can be a bad thing. There is no preset principle for someone who sets sail in a new land, and you should not feel entitled to a perfect bundle every time, there is one thing you haven't taken into consideration, it's not a Humble INDIE Bundle, its a Humble THQ Bundle. Totally different.

Cryrid
Cryrid 3D Artist
Dec 2 2012, 11:42am Anchor

This would be more like McDonalds having a promotion on their lobster sandwhich. They still offer Big Macs with all the toppings, and they didn't change any order that someone already paid for. But someone who doesn't like seafood is upset just because the regular hamburgers say '100% beef' (and they still are, being different sandwhiches than the mclobster whatever). And so they throw a temper tantrum in front of everyone else.

Edited by: Cryrid

Dec 2 2012, 1:27pm Anchor

Mind you Mc Donalds really DOES have a lobster sandwich, it looks more like a hotdog + and is sold in various parts of the world, mostly the ones that sell lobster cheap.

Reply to Thread
click to sign in and post

Only registered members can share their thoughts. So come on! Join the community today (totally free - or sign in with your social account on the right) and join in the conversation.