game based on movies and movies based on game Thread

ok were going to talk about why do games based on movies and movies based on games suck i mean is this has it always ment to be i mean it. All started when that super mario movie came out and that was shit not even the kids saw it so why are they carp in movies is it the way it doesn't resmeable the game or in games is it the way the stuff really doesn't happen in the movie.

WHY??

its simple... because movies are very very linear as in there is no choices or consequences that the audiences deals with. Once you make a game outta that it can be very undesirable unless they make it out of the movies theme, lore or something similar (ie starwars themed games like KOTR, Jedi Outcast etc. Or something like Age of Conan). Same goes for the other direction, games made into movies suffer the lack of perception that games give. If they made a movie out of farcry i think people would not like it ie "when i played the game it never felt like that".

Its easy enough to understand.

Edited by: Henley

Henley's reasonably right on that score. When you read a book, or watch a film, you're absorbing a totally linear experience, generally detailing what is happening to a group of people you otherwise have no connection with. When you play a game, you're acting out events, many of which are under your control and define what is happening. In a film, a character lives or dies by the story. In a game, they live or die based upon the decisions that you make.

Games that tend towards films start to gain a linearity that prevents the player from interacting with the world placed around him, thus lacking the ability for play. Films can't offer choices. Whilst the respective media aren't completely discrete, one is not the other, and there are incompatibilities that many (especially in the industry) still don't understand.

Well first off Henley they are making a Far Cry movie. As well as a Max Payne one.

Well I agree with what has been said. I think another reason they don't work so well is that a lot of games have a story line that, while it fits for the game, isn't actually strong enough for a movie. And I think it works vice versa aswell. A lot of movies have a very linear story line which is great, but would actually make a very short game and quite dull game.

Also a lot of movies that are turned into games have to have a awful lot of extra content added to them, to make them longer. And I find that this just waters down the story just for the sake of a few extra hours of playing time. And again vice versa, games sometimes have to have a lot of content taken out of them just to get the movie down to a reasonable length. I think as Henley said the ones that have more success are the ones that base the story/flim off of the universe, and not the original story.

Though the same could be said about books to movies most are not really all that good when you were someone to have read the book before hand.

One movie I think that could do incredibly well would be Legend of Zelda, but I doubt anyone in Hollywood is smart enough to put 2-2 together. Rest assured it'd look like a typical fantasy film but the main differences are in the story - Hollywood seems to be good at making over the top epic fantasy films so this game seems the ideal choice to adapt. It could do quite well, or flop like the Saturday Morning Cartoon did

I wouldn't mind a Starfox movie either, GC or Live Action don't mind really. (live action would have a more star wars feel)

Don't know if Road Rash would work as a film but it'd be pretty funny

I also think that Little Big Adventure would make an excelent children's film since its not exactly a boring typical "I treat you like you are 4 years old" game for kids, rather its one that says "hey adults play me too.. So I must be cool Look I throw balls of fire at people and kill them " this would be most likely CG as well.

Usually its best to go with a game that has a good story behind it. Or you can do what that Mario Bros film did and totally screw the video game to make something truly unique and memorable (even if it was a blade runner clone ).

what about something like the halo movie which isn't going to be based on the games but the halo book :the battle of reach

Something like Halo is an almost garenteed hit. Now whether it would be any good is a different story. I think that something like that has the possibility of being great, but at the same time it could fall flat because it has to miss out mny sections of the book. As movies based on books so often do.

From memory theres a Street Fighter movie being done. The Max Payne movie is being designed to continue the overall story of the Max Payne series, rather than making a new game. Theres also a Bioshock movie being made, which will be interesting to see.
Theres only been on good movie-game so far that I remember, which is Chronicles of Riddick. I think Kinesis is wrong in terms of story. Many games have a pretty deep and intricate story, and its not that theres not enough substance, its that the wrong games have been chosen to be made into movies. A well designed game can make an average & cliched story look pretty good. Conversely, a well-done movie can make an average storyline look good too (Memento, for instance). I think it just comes down that stories from games aren't presented properly, or they're choosing the wrong games to try and explore in a movie and cash in more on the popular games, which are often the ones that don't have the best stories.
I hope that made sense.

I disagree with Henleys point, though. I think that its a perception thing - people come to expect a certain thing from a movie-game conversion and, more often than not, it doesn't deliver because it has to cater to the general public as well as the people who played the game. Chronicles of Riddick wasn't a big hit, and thats because it wasn't aimed at the general audience but its always cited as the one that actually worked. If you have the ability to be able to assume prior knowledge and be able to more intricately explore parts of the story and characters then you can make something far better.
I think MGS4 is also an interesting case due to its VERY long cut-scenes - its practically both a movie AND a game in one, and this is the whole convergence thing that has been talked about for so long.
The James Bond games are also often decent (Goldeneye was a great game), but I think going Movie->Game is ALOT easier than Game->Movie

Movies-books have a far higher success rate than games-movies (or games-books) though, probably for the reasons that Henley outlined. Its much easier to take whats an inherently linear experience and convert it into another inherently linear experience. Again, James Bond is a great example here

James Bond was a book first, Film second, Game last.

Final Fantasy had a lot of potential, and those films weren't amazing either. Too much time wasted on the visuals.

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote: I wouldn't mind a Starfox movie either

Bucky O'Hare?

Edited by: ambershee

Well fair enough I wasn't quite on the ball with game story lines. I think I might of worded it wrong, and now I can't remember what exactly my train of thought was on the matter. Though you are probably right that the choices for games made into movies have perhaps not been the best ones.
Though you are wrong about Chronicles of Riddick as such being a movie to game. It was much more the character of Riddick establised in the film "Pitch Black" over the film "Chronicles of Riddick". And even then the game was a completley new story set just before "Pitch Black". Though there is a new game currently in development. I am just really being picky though.

I would though like to pick up on something you did mention Wraiyth. And thats that films are created to cater for the general public over for fans. It is a shame to point because parts which you love and know are often taken out or changed to make it appeal more to the wider market. But at the same time I can understand why they might me taken out or changed. It all really comes down to money. They don't make these movies because they fans want one, they do it to make money.
There is currently a big discussion over on the Black Library forums on whether a 40k/Warhammer movie should or shouldn't be made. On the one hand as fans we know all the background so know what would make a great movie. Yet on the other hand most people don't actually know the background and would need a simplified version to get into the universe.

kinesis916 wrote: Well fair enough I wasn't quite on the ball with game story lines. I think I might of worded it wrong, and now I can't remember what exactly my train of thought was on the matter. Though you are probably right that the choices for games made into movies have perhaps not been the best ones.
Though you are wrong about Chronicles of Riddick as such being a movie to game. It was much more the character of Riddick establised in the film "Pitch Black" over the film "Chronicles of Riddick". And even then the game was a completley new story set just before "Pitch Black". Though there is a new game currently in development. I am just really being picky though.

I would though like to pick up on something you did mention Wraiyth. And thats that films are created to cater for the general public over for fans. It is a shame to point because parts which you love and know are often taken out or changed to make it appeal more to the wider market. But at the same time I can understand why they might me taken out or changed. It all really comes down to money. They don't make these movies because they fans want one, they do it to make money.
There is currently a big discussion over on the Black Library forums on whether a 40k/Warhammer movie should or shouldn't be made. On the one hand as fans we know all the background so know what would make a great movie. Yet on the other hand most people don't actually know the background and would need a simplified version to get into the universe.

the answer would be to make a mini series.

ambershee wrote: James Bond was a book first, Film second, Game last.

Final Fantasy had a lot of potential, and those films weren't amazing either. Too much time wasted on the visuals.

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote: I wouldn't mind a Starfox movie either

Bucky O'Hare?

Actually I think Goldeneye was a movie before it was a book.

what about game tatics in movies like how in the doom movie there were scenes when you only saw the guys gun walking around like a fps but your watching it.

and another tatic is the starting off in a quiet place with no sings of life then going through small waves and enemies and then topping it off with a boss monster like in the Lord of the rings ,Aliens and resident evil 2

what directors do within the screenplay is completely up to them, that fps scene you where talking about was a throw back to the first game, not in anyway effecting the story. More of an easter egg if you will

Hmm, actually most of the Indiana Jones games were pretty enjoyable, so I wouldn't say that games based on films necessarily suck. To fatty producers its usually just a merchandise. What companies make of people's beloved heroes and stories often turns out as incredibly disappointing games.
I think films made after games suck much worse than vice versa, as these often don't have enough of a storyline to make it across the first thirty minutes and stay interesting.

ambershee wrote:

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote: I wouldn't mind a Starfox movie either

Bucky O'Hare?

No that's Jazz Jackrabbit you're thinking of but yeah I do see the resemblance. Still its not like they ever made a live action Bucky movie.
I think Star Fox would work great since it did rip-off a lot of films (Star Wars, Independence Day, Top Gun... ect).

I mean Starfox bears an awful, awful lot of resemblance to Bucky O'Hare (subtracting the kid, of course).

Edited by: ambershee

How about Deus Ex? It was already in production a couple of years ago, but was canceled for unknown reasons. It could have something to do with the Matrix being around by then.
However, the game would make great material for a cyberpunk-noir detective film. Something on the trail of Bladerunner, but even a little more sinister. I'd like to see a film end with a clueless hero, who has to pick the lesser of the three evils, which await him in the end. You could really keep him (and the viewer) unconscious of the meaning of his involvement, until you have reached the very end. Personally I wouldn't mind writing that script, either.
When I played Deus Ex again with the HDTP mod (inspired by someone posting about Deus), I found myself playing one of the greatest games, which could only be made richer by a bigger world. The Deus Ex universe itself provides so much background information and inspiration, it wouldn't be hard to add to the world, without destroying its morbid charm.

Deus Ex won't work, same as why Neuromancer won't work and why Jhonny Mnemonic despite being hilarious didn't work either. Deus ex much similarly to William Gibson's works (in that Deus Ex tries to be very similar) is too large and ambitious to convert to a film. The philosophical arguments alone would kill the film as it would most likely be an action film like Equilibrium- however that did have some excelent philosophical moments in its own right (if a bit short and predictable ). If by some miracle Neuromancer ends up good, then I suspect 100% that a Deus Ex film will be made in light of that, else as we're all predicting the film will crash and burn resorting in yet another death of cyberpunk in film (and then I'll start burning pictures of Hayden Christianson for portraying Case in such a terrible fashion..) Rest assured I intend on releasing something of my Neuromancer game before any of that shit hits the fan, my hope is that I do a much better job.

I think Metal Gear Solid would work as a film, but then after seeing the new game I can't help but think whats the point anyway? the game is already a film in its own right .

and the point about Star Fox and Bucky I'll cease on and let you have that since I was trying to say that Jazz Jackrabbit is far more closer to a perfect ripoff (green bunny, space ship, chasing after an army of green toads turtles). Star Fox though is also very close.

what about dino crysis but then again it be like resident evil but with dinosaurs instead of zombies

I have written (and sold) several scripts, so far. None of them was for a feature film yet, but in Deus Ex you actually have a classical Three Act Structure. It isn't really difficult to turn it into a script, since the main storyline can well be told in 90 minutes. Which leaves some space and time for decoration.

Metal Gear Solid is more difficult to be turned into a film, because dialogue is badly written and pathetic in parts. While the games are great by itself, I would agree that this is an artform by its own standards and, if he were to make films Hideo would probably be a director in the spirit of Uwe Boll. So it's better for all of us, he keeps making great games.

Another thing I came to wonder - has Devil May Cry ever been optioned by Capcom (?or whoever owns it?). It would quite fit into todays' cinema of action blockbusters. Ah yes - and Eternal Darkness perhaps. Another enjoyable story.

I agree that the first Deus Ex would have to be a trilogy in its own right. There is just too much information to compress into a 1.5 hour movie.

I just turned on my computer this morning and found this rather interesting article on games and movies on msn. There was a nice structure to it and there seemed to be some good reasoning.
It can be found here.

Edit: And there is a podcast link in the article about said topic which I quite enjoyed.

Edited by: kinesis916