future of modding Thread

Just out of curiosity, I searched through moddb to only shows HL2 mods. The results blew me back somewhat. 34 Pages!!! Which is altogether 334 HL2 mods, supposedly in development. Now this is bullshit.

Think of all the mods in the past that have been announced and then a few months down the line die and/or stay in limbo. ( I am talkin quake, HL1 mods etc. )

I cant help but wonder what percent of these mods are doomed for failure 90% ? I'd dare say more.

I think people getting into modding are not comprehending the amount of work it takes to see a mod through to completion. Think about the size of the maps for HL2 its gonna take months on end to get 'one' map finished. Not to mention the complexity of character modelling and all the grahpical confucion that goes with it.

I aint saying massive detailed levels and the latest graphical trickery is nonsense. Its just a LOT of work, especially for a mod team member to work with.

I suppose the question is, what can be done to make sure as many mods stay together as possible, well I have been thinking. How about a new moddb site just for mod recruitment ? (kind of a sister site, I suppose)
Only instead of listing all mods and profiling them. It lists all mod team members and profiles them. You could even have a gallery of maps/models the individual has done. And most importantly, specify if they are available to commit to another mod.

I think this is what is needed now, more than ever. By showing how many people are free to commit to a mod, a mod designer could be a little more realistic before commiting to a massive epic needing loads of members, when in fact there are not loads of member to be had.

In reality I think the mod community is itching for some kind of 'quality control' so the mods with potential get a chance of putting a team together yet the bad mods wont find people, and they'll know why:

There are too many mod leaders and not enogh mod members.

Discuss.

Well, most ppl jump th gun. Before I even declared my mod I made sure there was interest and I had a minimal team. Most ppl who state they are creating a mod will never become active in doing so. This applies especially to those who think they'll have high levels of detail, ect. ect. ect. As far as there being too many leaders and not enough members... most of these fallacious mods have leaders who can't do any modding. This is why they think they can create such high detailed and ridiculously impossible mods. Fallacious mods will not ever go active.

It's not like all of them are first runs at doing mods. A lot of them are people updating their mods from Half-Life 1 to Half-Life 2. Besides, no one said you'd have to use the maximum space to make a map; most game developers fluctuate.

We don't really "need" this, because a lot of mod team members go out themselves and look for team members, not really having a lot of trouble finding them here with the proper advertising.

You can't really be prejudice against all the HL2 mods, since the engine hasn't been released and nothing about the game has been certain yet. There were plenty of mods getting ready for UT2k3 and UT2k4, Far Cry (which they still don't have the SDK for yet), etc. etc. etc. It's just that most people have an understanding for HL1 and not the other engines, so they have big plans for this one.

Already stated this before, but there's nothing wrong with preparing

moddb v2 will improve mod recruitment.

but of those 334 hl2 mods many of the have changed status i mean like 70% are saying that they wont do anything until they get theyre hand on the sdk.

Karuto wrote: You can't really be prejudice against all the HL2 mods, since the engine hasn't been released and nothing about the game has been certain yet...

This is another thing that bugs me. How can someone announce a HL2 mod, and then begin recruitment BEFORE anything has been released.

They have no idea if the people they are recruiting:-
-can actually reproduce good quality things for HL2
-if they know how all the new features for making maps

They seem to be looking at the extremely high quality of HL2 and assuming they can recruit people that can produce things to equal quality?

Something that is becoming very clear from reading about HL2's modding capabilities is, it is very much for teams who can work closely together. e.g. A mapper, needs to work closely with the modeller to make the furniture. The mapper and modeller needs to work closely with the 2D artist.

I know that if such a database existed not everyone would use it. But it would be a very useful resource for finding team members and seperating the weak mods from the bad. Like moddb, not all mods are listed here but most are and its a great place to find new mods and learn of ones you didnt know about.

looks like i'm not the only one who is a bit dazzeled by the amount of hl2 mods... i'm sorry for those who really wanna achieve something but whener i see a new mod for hl2 pop out i go like "OMFG! Not Again!". i donno how you keep it but i would not bluff out a mod with model x done and model y done and map z done if you have no real clue what the game looks like after? it's already difficult to work with a game engine you know to not create 1 FPS games or otherwise hit limits all time... but if you do NOT know the engine... that's in my eyes more of harakiri (or how this is spelled) than of serious development.
(again, no offense towards those that really wanna achieve something... which is mostly below 5% of those hl2 mods).

Most Half Life2 mods consist of recreations of older HL1 modifications and of cliche run of the mill "I'm gonna make a mod based on a movie!" mods. The HL2 section should be removed until HL2 is out. All the section does is clutter ModDB.

and 90% of HL2 mods contain either a AK47 or a M16 rifle

And counter-terrorist scenarios

- Edited By CheapAlert On Mon 28th, Jun 2004 @ 9:16:21am

Well its deviated recently but more often than not its the typical Cstrike clone.

I knew this would happen when I saw what mr_greenfish wrote. I guess it's going better than most forum posts that say anything negative about anything HL2 though.

90% of statistics are made up.

Maybe they could just cplit up the mod listings to show future planned mods and current WIP mods. (Work In Progress)

I dunno, but I been told, a big-legged woman ain't got no soul.

*edit
*me thinks HL2 ships for Christmas

- Edited By AttorneyAtPaw On Mon 28th, Jun 2004 @ 9:42:47am

hl2 for x-mas? that's the last thing i would belief in this rotten world...

anyways... the idea of taking mods out for games not released is good. you could make a 'futur' area where people can post the mods they think they wanna pull of for a game in work but not with a total profile for each mere a slot in the list so people know... that's far enough i think.

It's not like you need the HL2 SDK for everything on the mod. All you really need it is for mapping and coding. Everything else you can accomplish beforehand.

You can't really say 334 clutter Moddb, because a lot of them are progressing, and a lot of people would be mad if they took it away. Hell, how about people doing Doom 3 mods? The release isn't totally certain, because it could be delayed, but hey, there it is.

Thing is, a lot of HL2 mods have at least concept work done, so don't say that they're all working towards nothing. You never know, a lot of people might pull it off.

EDIT: Besides, almost 10 pages of Half-Life has been released. That's 98/498, which is roughly a fifth of all of the mods. Plus, there are plenty of ones which haven't been posted on Moddb, which should balance it out to about more than half. It's not every time a person says a mod is dead means that the team isn't working -- it's just speculation. You can't tell if that mod is working on a release date or not. That's the same thing that will go with Half-Life 2 mods. You can't tell until it's out and people are working on their creations. All it is, is speculation.

- Edited By Karuto On Mon 28th, Jun 2004 @ 10:12:36am

concept work and models cant be implemented into a engine yet. so why bother making a mod profile for them ? this isnt model and pretty drawings database now is it ?

btw: doom3 should also be postponed until release. at least that has abetter chance of release.

The people who put effort into a mod should be recognized but it should all stay in context. I've seen alot of concept art and models that are in and of themselves, great. But if they are used to hype a mod that may or may not ever exist, it makes it hard to really get behind that team.

I could toss a few maps, some sketches I've done and some un-skinned weapons and say I'm going to do a HL2 mod in the future but who would watch it or care until I could actually progress beyong my concepts?

Wtv-zone.com

w00t //me thinks Rob Zombie is a loser

-> page... what's that for an asshole written that? sorry but this guy lacks the sense for reality...

topic: nothing against concept art, models and such. it's ok if people like to show off what they've done, especially if a lot of work went into it but models and maps are only a minimal part of what a mod makes great... if the entire gameplay is bad, the coding is bad or the mod doesn't work together with the game it's based upon then it's not really a blast. for all those model and skin things you really do not need to eat up a lot of database space... a simple entry plus a page is enough. who is interested can look at the page... that's what a ****ing mod-page is meant to be for.

I think in the future mods are going to get more and more professional looking and more popular. Look at ut2k4 for example. And almost every pc gamer mag has a section about mods. It is only going to get bigger w00t!

modding is growing up, this also means that dev teams will have to grow up. v2 will have much nicer helpwanted things so you can get hold of the appropriate people easier, and new 'status levels' for mods should clarify what is where

I really do hope mod recruitment is improved significantly in moddb v2, because the current procedure/restrictions is a joke.
Its as if moddb put the recruitment options on for the sake of them being there rather than to serve its purpose... I mean cmon the recrutment/help wanted shit is always at the bottom corner of the page, to me this reflects how important moddb care about mod recruitment. Which is why it really needs something seperate and unique. A universal HUB where people can go to actively look for members and more imprtantly get to see how skilled they actually are.

In an ideal world I think the best possible direction to go on mod recruitment would be to have specialist teams that specialise in a particular trade.
e.g. A database of modellers for example, a mod leader approaches them to pitch there mod idea. The team then decide if the mod is worth commiting to, although harsh it would certainly ensure the skilled members work on mods with potential, no?

I also think that moddb need to revise there policy on allowing pre-release games to either not be listed. or, only to be listed when significant progress has been made. At the moment moddb seems like a dumping ground for dead mods (and NO i aint just talkin HL2 mods here)

EDIT: I find it quite amusing, that the only people defending the HL2 mod boom, are the people who are actually working on a HL2 mod

- Edited By mr_greenfish On Tue 29th, Jun 2004 @ 12:19:46am

Well said greenfish

I see nothing wrong with mods saying 'we will move to HL2', but they should be MOVING, not be people going 'we will mod for HL2 coz it rox0rz!"

hm... this becomes more and more a business... not what mods are about: fun!
if you go and 'buy' (not with cash, more in an analogy way) some modelers, some skinners, some mappers for your mod... i mean... is this still a mod where people clank together to pull something off? where's the fun in making mods there? it's more like mods-on-the-chain... and finally we get the same crap quality mods as there are crap quality games around today!

i am convinced that if your mod really has the bite and you have the bite and you have the will the people come to you not you hunt them down. otherwise you could smack a label on this page:
"m$ mod smash-out-of-the-ground page: the quicker the better --- quality is a neglectable side effect"

that is usually the case, i agree. However I personally have worked on mods that have died, and to know that you have given up shitloads of free-time to commit to something that went down the toilet is pretty off-putting, to say the least.

I was just thinkin out loud with the 'organised mod recruitment' idea. But I really do think more focus needs to go on mod recruitment, whether it be through moddb or a seperate thing altogether.

i donno... perhaps this just goes too much main stream. past has shown that first there are a small number of people who really wanna pull off something and great stuff evoked... then more and more people come which 'pick-up' the idea, some with great enthusiasme and others half-hearted, and medium works starts to evoke... and finally everybody who can piss straight ahead picks-up the idea and claims a new mod. i remember (correct me if wrong) that mods should be here not only rip offs of others but somethig interesting, new or different (like NS for example)... but on how many of those mods registered today this principle really applies?

i would personally not accept any 'request for a coder' on a mod like that... i definitly would not... i'm missing this way what's important to me: beeing convinced that you want to be part of it. there are so many ways (forums, PMs even IRC or IMs) where you can meet with people and suddenly some turn interested and a team develops... i like this way... it's a natural and satisfactin way... the other way is... cold... lifeless...

If you guys ever played Urban Terror, you'll see that these communities can pull people together and develop copmmercial grade products that are being put out for free.

It's the inventive side of people that comes out when they WANT to do something in a certain way and they find out what works best to achieve their goals. Once you go commercial, you can still have some freedom but you're constrained by the corporate goals and deadlines.

I don't know if you guys ever did the QIII mod Urban Terror but you should check out what people can do when they are dedicated and talented.
Planetquake.com

hm... somehow the url doesn't load with me... is the link correct?