Equal Money System Thread

Why an Equal Money System?

It is our understanding that most of the suffering that is currently being experienced on earth is caused by human beings denying other human beings equal access to living resources. This has probably been going on since the very beginning. Though over the ages the system in which we exist has specialized in becoming ever more ruthless. The inequality and the absolute disregard for life that we’ve come to embody as a specie, is now placing us at a crossroads: will we stop and start honoring each other as equals or will we close the cycle and put an end to the human journey?

What we suggest is to have a platform established that will allow for human beings to take a break from the madness. This can be done through establishing an equal money-system, whereby every human being on earth will have a right to an equal unconditional income – from birth to death. The equal money-system would be aimed at removing fear and survival from the equation called ‘life’. This will establish a level of equality in which we can start to learn what it means to live together and how to trust each other.

Simplistically, money is the tool the system is using to perpetuate its control over human beings.

We say money can be used for good – if we understand how it works and then change the rules. Then we can come to a new agreement about how we want to live, where everyone is equally taken into consideration.

* * *

Why using Money as a solution – will money not lead to corruption again?

Money is not intrinsically Evil or does not by itself promulgate greed. In the current system it is the way money is used and defined, that is promulgating greed – those are rules that are agreed upon. The rules of what money is based on can thus be changed. An example of such a rule, is that: no one has right to any money unless someone has worked for it. This rule dictates that children will receive no support in this world unless directly by Parents that work to earn money to sustain the child or indirectly through redirected taxes. (A third way can be through charity but that is not consistent enough to be of any significance in the bigger picture.) A consequence of this rule is that children born on earth in the current system have no right to exist – because the fact that this child exists does not grant it the right to actually have the means to live, which is money. Rights only come with labor – And if you are unable to buy yourself the right to exist through labor, someone else must be found that can buy that right for you...

More at: Equalmoney.org

An equal unconditional income - from birth to death. What do you think about it?

This is an interesting insight.

Removing the elements of "fear" and "survival" from life, which have always been fundamental and are part of the human nature, would make people learn to trust each other, since their is no wealth to be gained by killing a peer. People would treat each other as equals, because in this situation, they are, no matter what. Therefore, people would focus their attention on progressive things such as space exploration, biological research, engineering, etc. to better the lives of everyone and help us learn more about the world we live in. In this point of view, it sounds pretty good.

The system these people live under would have to be a totalitarianism (like Communism/Fascism), correct? Since everyone has the same amount of wealth, wouldn't you have to prevent people from gaining more wealth for themselves by setting up personal enterprises?

And how about the people who are giving out this wealth equally to all peoples. Who's to prevent them from taking more than they're giving, which would morph the system into an aristocracy.
Communism, in history, has suffered from this over and over again, and it's one of it's major downfalls.

That's brilliant!

One small catch though - now that everyone gets money simply for breathing, what's going to motivate people to actually grow food to keep everyone fed? Maybe they could get paid by the people sitting on their arse....

Oh fuck, we're back to jobs, meaning some people earning more than others. That utopia didn't last long, did it?

and then what, use this money for what? Not like children know how to budget and spend the money wisely, and considering the fact that a fair amount of kids getting a monthly allowance spend it on drugs and other crap... I dont really see the point in that.

Also, money does not just pop into existance, if something like this would be implimented the currency value would drop due to children's inactivity in the economy. If nobody worked, and got an unconditional salary every month, there would be no economy, and with no economy, money would be absolutely pointless... Take a look at zimbabwe =] There everyone is a millionaire, and by that I dont mean it as a good thing, bread costs you a few million zim dollars, the currency is so weak due to no sustainable economy.

So, while the thought may be delightful, think of the impact... That monthly allowance your parents give you dont affect the economy, and besides, Im not sure how the government rolls in Poland, but hopefully its beter than here in SA, some countries cover schooling and medical, (taxes) which should be sufficient =] But truth is, yes greed is a horrible disease, money is not the problem, its people, its like guns, guns dont kill people, its people with guns that kill people. The only solution to this problem is the appocolypse, dooms day =]

a wise man once said: "be the change you wish to see in the world"

Edited by: Joe_Shmoe

Also, money does not just pop into existance,

I think the premise is that it may as well could for such a thing to happen. Half the money in the world today is just numbers in a bank account, and the other half is just paper and some stone. Nothing of any real worth. I don't think the economy would be ruined by this either; money may be able to pop out of thin air, but food and buildings don't. There would still be a demand for the people who have the skills (or the general labor) to create and prepare the things people actually want and need. So while people may not want to work and would have money, some people will still be required to work (in turn being rewarded for their time with more money). Then like Gibberstein says, we're back to the current system of jobs and the fluctuating costs of things.

Edited by: Cryrid

Fools!

All people will earn equal salary. It's just...

SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.

Problem solved.

...

No offense but you really have no clue. You sound like a young, self-enlightened socialist who think he understands the world.
You can't fix poverty by giving everyone an equal sum of money, or even an equal income.
If you give 10 000 USD to every american citizen - you really think that that will solve the poverty problems in that country? No it won't. It will just cause higher inflation. That's how a free market work. If everyone suddenly have more money or resources, then that will cause inflation. The reason the american economy is so fucked up for example is partly because the federal reserve (which isn't even "federal" at all - it's a private business) "creates" money from nothing. Just like the rest of the banking world. (Yes, banks CREATE money when they lend money to people. And to balance this crazy act they create debt. It's not like you think: that they have tons of gold in some dungeon, or money hidden away somewhere.)

Everyone who thinks that this is a great idea need to watch the documentary "Money as debt" which gives you a brief intro to the history of money, the banking system and why it's corrupt. It's state and nationwide corruption and international tolls/dues (for example: nations who excludes other nations from trade - the main reason why africa is so poor even though they have a lot of natural resources) that creates poverty. If our so-called "free markets" were truly free, then many development countrys would be able to industrialize and compete with us - the west. Now why isn't this happening you think? Because we in the west wants to keep our social and economic standards. Things are being held back for a reason you know, and poverty exist for a reason - and that reason is more complex than any one of you could ever imagine.

You are right however that money is used as a tool to enslave entire nations/people. But the problem is not money in itself but the corrupt leaderships and faulty democratic system of this world.

Edited by: Nightshade

I totally agree with Niteshade. And as an American it is terrible to sit and watch as the government spends, spends, spends, spends and there is nothing that can be done. $15.1 Trillion debt? That is where its at! -.-

And then in this crazy time I see people beg for more (and Unions in Ohio just took a hit with a recent senate bill, they are all pissed that they have to give up something in this economy like the rest of us) but they don't want to pay for it. Everyone wants everything but they are unwilling to pay the taxes necessary. I will admit the cost of living is high in America (not nearly as high as Canada though O.o, even with free healthcare its more, and I'm moving there in a month ), but it is partly because American's want more out of life. Therefore they want higher wages to buy more goods, which in the end makes our labor less competitive on the international market.

I went to college with a woman that bitched and moaned that she couldn't afford her bills and that she didn't get paid enough. She got paid enough, even more than me, but she had an iPhone, multiple (and expensive) tattoos, designer clothing, a nice car and four dogs, not to mention she bought groceries from the most expensive store around!

Sorry I'm ranting lol, but what I'm getting at is that the problem isn't necessarily unfair wages, it's the inability of people to live within their means. People forget about the important things in life - Family and Faith. They get swept up in this materialistic race to have the best of the best, but then have no money when they actually need it.

What we can do is teach our children about a good work ethic and living within our means. If the people can start taking care of themeselves, the government will only have to take care of those who literally cannot. Then spending will decrease and things will start to get better. Everything begins with the grass roots, the base of the pyramid is the people, plain and simple. If we live within our means, spend and save appropriately, then there is nothing to be scared of.

Niteshade wrote: No offense but you really have no clue. You sound like a young, self-enlightened socialist who think he understands the world.
You can't fix poverty by giving everyone an equal sum of money, or even an equal income.
If you give 10 000 USD to every american citizen - you really think that that will solve the poverty problems in that country? No it won't. It will just cause higher inflation. That's how a free market work. If everyone suddenly have more money or resources, then that will cause inflation. The reason the american economy is so fucked up for example is partly because the federal reserve (which isn't even "federal" at all - it's a private business) "creates" money from nothing. Just like the rest of the banking world. (Yes, banks CREATE money when they lend money to people. And to balance this crazy act they create debt. It's not like you think: that they have tons of gold in some dungeon, or money hidden away somewhere.)

Everyone who thinks that this is a great idea need to watch the documentary "Money as debt" which gives you a brief intro to the history of money, the banking system and why it's corrupt. It's state and nationwide corruption and international tolls/dues (for example: nations who excludes other nations from trade - the main reason why africa is so poor even though they have a lot of natural resources) that creates poverty. If our so-called "free markets" were truly free, then many development countrys would be able to industrialize and compete with us - the west. Now why isn't this happening you think? Because we in the west wants to keep our social and economic standards. Things are being held back for a reason you know, and poverty exist for a reason - and that reason is more complex than any one of you could ever imagine.

You are right however that money is used as a tool to enslave entire nations/people. But the problem is not money in itself but the corrupt leaderships and faulty democratic system of this world.

You're absolutely correct.

(and Unions in Ohio just took a hit with a recent senate bill, they are all pissed that they have to give up something in this economy like the rest of us)

From what I've seen, the public unions in Ohio and Wisconsin had no qualms about paying more for health and pension costs while taking pay cuts (ie: giving up something like everyone else). They're pissed because the bills in question are also stripping away their rights for collective bargaining, making it illegal to strike, and reducing the control over their own contracts. It's far less of a budget issue and much more a political move; the governor of Wisconsin recently testified before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform that the union-busting provisions don't do anything to save money for the state, while Wisconsin's senate leader was on tv saying its about winning the next election by getting rid of organized labor's funding. And while this is going on and the lower/middle class are shouldering the burden, millionaires are continuing to get more tax cuts while billion-dollar coorpoations aren't even paying taxes. I suspect Ohio is the same boat.

. I will admit the cost of living is high in America (not nearly as high as Canada though O.o, even with free healthcare its more, and I'm moving there in a month )

Canada is massive, so it'll largely depend on where you end up (you'd be foolish to equate the cost of living in LA to someplace cheaper in America like Texas, same goes for Canada). I expect taxes are higher here, but not to any extreme point (probably more in line with what the US had in the 90s before all the tax cuts). I would say it is worth it though when you compare the standard of living (especially if you're unfortunate enough to require an operation or two). Our salaries may or may not be higher to compensate. For example Maine is right next to me, and the minimum wage there is $7.50 (with it's governor trying to make it so anyone under the age of twenty only gets $5.50 for the first 6 month of their employment, if their job manages to last as long). Cross the border to NB, and the minimum wage will be $10 before this year is over (I was speaking to a graduated and experienced Pharmacy Technician on another forum who I guess was making less than a new McDonald's employee here). Internet (and data packages for phones) will cost higher unfortunately due to a severe lack of competition. At the moment I'm living low due to some student debt I'd like to pay off, but as far as living on my own goes rent/electricity/internet/foodforaking requires about $800 a month.

I'd agree with you about people living beyond their means. Like that one politician who was recently complaining about hardly getting by with his $174000.00 salary when I'd be doing very well with myself if only making 25% of that.

Such a system would never work, people need motivation, why someone would worry on majoring on a college when they just could get something easier that doesn't require as much effort?

why someone would worry on majoring on a college when they just could get something easier that doesn't require as much effort?

It's not like it is replacing currency or anything. People are given money, which means they must trade it for the goods and services they want/need. So if someone wants to buy more stuff, they'll need more money first (which they get for working). It winds up being the very same system we have now, except a loaf of bread would cost $10 more because they can justify it.

Wouldnt that pretty much be communism? >.>

Yes, in the end of wage labour. But does this equal-money system also have private property? Because Communism does not. And Communism is (supposed to) be distribution based on need (for use, not profit) and social relations in Communism are based on freely-associated individuals.

Someone wrote: If our so-called "free markets" were truly free, then many development countrys would be able to industrialize and compete with us

Then eventually take your industry, offer you loans not expecting to have it paid back, float their dollar to make the loans super super inflated (refering to China). True America didn't have a free economy, but the idiots who were allowed to dictate it did an absolutely shit house job at it and the result is now China owns most of America's economic strength- and soon it'll start calling in the tab, with America having no way of paying it back.