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| BBC lies caught again (oil price, probably media wide) | Locked | |
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Jun 6 2008 Anchor | |
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of course the fact that almost the entire rise came a within a few hours after Isreal said it would start WWIII was pure coincidence. honestly gov. See, I told you we should lynch the *******'s |
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Jun 10 2008 Anchor | |
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About half-way down:
Why did you even have that reaction in the first place? It's not like people don't make mistakes. Edited by: Varsity |
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| Jun 10 2008 Anchor | ||
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explain? |
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Jun 11 2008 Anchor | |
they changed it a day later.
because the BBC is 'hiding' the fact US is quite blatantly trying to start WWIII, and for the last 2 years of oil price rises they have only been leading with 'oil price dropped' stories. -- __ |
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Jun 11 2008 Anchor | |
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Ah, you're a crackpot. That explains it. |
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Jun 11 2008 Anchor | |
I'm a crackpot, who using his 'crackpot' knowledge has been doubling his money every two weeks for the last 8 months. crackpot suits me. -- __ Edited by: mSparks |
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| Jun 11 2008 Anchor | ||
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You've got it a bit wrong there. Its Israel trying to start the war, not the US.. Granted the US has known about Israel's plans all along (as to why I suspect the US invaded Iraq to begin with). Israel wants total control over the holy lands but it won't happen, Iran wants to wipe the Israel state from the planet using nuclear warfare. What makes it even worse is that Russia is an ally of Iran. As a result Israel attacks Iran, Iran invades Israel, US invades Iran, Russia attacks US, China allies with Russia (thus screwing the economy forcing it into utter collapse) and then WW3. The only way to avoid a full out war is to get China to remain neutral, Russia obviously will attack the US and start another cold war, I'm actually expecting this due to the Oil crisis (meaning Russia can screw the US over by holding all the oil). Rest assured the entire Middle-East and Africa is going to get caught up in a war with global super powers. We don't know anything until it happens. But yes it is a serious issue and Israel needs to back down before it gets a lot of people killed. |
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Jun 12 2008 Anchor | |
That's a bit of a far call. By a bit I mean = o_0 Russia aren't stupid, first of all they're not "allies" with Iran, they're just maintaining political ties with the country because of the oil - Russia has also been criticising Iran for their nuclear ambitions and for not allowing UN inspectors in. You also seem to be thinking of Russia as the Russia of the cold war, sure, Russia has a booming economy and they are growing stronger, but they are nowhere near strong enough to take on America. Not that they would, wars are costly and Russia would not go into one that does not have a prospect of it winning for the sake of a country it has "diplomatic" ties with. It is possible that China will ally itself with Russia, though American-Chinese relations haven't quite reached that point of collapse yet. You're also right in saying that if Israel attacks Iran, America will get involved. But unlike Russia and Iran, America and Israel are allies. I'm going to put this simply - Israel is the only real ally the western world has in the Middle East, we have Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, but both of them combined could not match up to Israel's military power. Why is Israel the only 'real' ally? The reasons are obvious, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq and possibly soon even Saudi Arabia are run by Islamic radicals who hate America and all its allies, Israel does not hate America and all its allies (simple?). I think we are facing a future conflict in the Middle East. It's also not Israel who want to start the 'war,' there can be no real gain for Israel from such a war apart from removing another threat, as mentioned above, wars are costly. Iran have threatened to wipe Israel out, soon they will have the capacity to try to do so, whether that be their true intention or not. Israel, like any other country has the right to defend itself and will definetely do so, when that happens, America will become involved, if not for oil or any of the other obvious reasons than just to go with their only strong ally in the Middle East. Lets just hope some diplomatic solution comes about before Ahmadinejad brings catastrophe upon his people. Edited by: JangoFett21 |
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Jun 12 2008 Anchor | |
You are falling for Rupert Murdoch propganda here, in believing that Israel controls the US, I prefer to follow the money, and the simple fact is, US government donations account for something like 60-70% of Israels GDP - name me time time when the debtor has ever told the creditor what to do, it is always the other way around.
is not the same as Israel releasing a statement saying Israeli strikes are now unavoidable, and then the price of oiling jumping by $10 within a space of a few hours after that statement is released. -- __ |
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Jun 12 2008 Anchor | |
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He didn't say Israel controls the US. He said Israel is trying to start a war and the US is backing them. |
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Jun 12 2008 Anchor | |
My point is, its the US trying to start the war, Israel is just the name we give to a very large US military base in the Middle East. -- __ Edited by: mSparks |
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Jun 12 2008 Anchor | |
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I'd argue that it's Iran trying to start the war, or at least Ahmadinejad personally. Israel do not want to start a war, but if Iran does not pull back and allow UN inspectors into its country, Israel may attack Iran's nuclear facilities. With or without America's go ahead. Remember, Israel attacked Syria and only told the Americans a short time after the attack. |
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Jun 12 2008 Anchor | |
you might want to rethink that view. Iran has not started a war for over 400 years, US/UK/Israel etc start them every 5-10 years. (the last war it was involved in was when Iraq launched an attack on it - which they subsequently won, and shows you how long ago that was.) -- __ |
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Jun 12 2008 Anchor | |
I found that link very amusing (by the way, this isn't an insult to you mSparks, I'm enjoying our discussion, I genuinely found the piece of news verry funny.) Iran complained to the UN that Israel was going to attack them using quotes such as:
Now, lets remember that Iran has been threatening to wipe Israel off the map for the past 6 months. What is the difference? Is Iran allowed to make such threats and Israel is not? And to use a weak argument: Israel made the threat to Iran in direct response to Iran's own initial threat to Israel (this is the Iran started it first argument.) Remembering that Israel only made the threat to Iran (their first) over the past 7 days: During April of this year, Ahmadinejad said that Isreal "heading toward annihilation," just days after Tehran raised fears about its nuclear activities by saying it successfully enriched uranium for the first time. Ahmadinejad also called Israel a "permanent threat" to the Middle East that will "soon" be liberated. He also stated last year during an anti-Zionist conference that Israel should be "wiped off the map."
The Israeli state has only been in existence for 60 years. In the past 400 years, or ever, rather, Iran has never been in such a position of power which their oil has given them. Iran has also never had a radical extremist leader like Ahmadinejad before, or been so challenged by the Western world. You say that Israel starts wars every 5-10 years. Israel has been involved in the following wars: 1948 Arab-Israeli War Of these wars, Israel initiated the conflict only for the Six Day War. In that case all the armies of the countries surrounding them had mobilised and were mounting on their borders with Israel so Israel launched a preemptive strike. Later intelligence gathered proved that the Arab countries were in-fact planning to attack Israel, so I don't know if you'll include that or not. Israel also initiated the conflicts in both Lebanon Wars, but they were not against Lebanon, but against the PLO and Hezbollah organisations (not other sovereign states) after they had launched continuous small attacks on Israel. My point being that even if you include the Six Day War and both Lebanon Wars as a 'wars' started by Israel, that's still 3 of 7. Israel has had war declared on it by Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria before. Edited by: JangoFett21 |
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Jun 12 2008 Anchor | |
ROFL, wondered if you fall for that trap, they been lieing to you there as well: the mistranslation was even retracted by the original translators, yet it still seems to propagate round the world and in government speeches as fact (ring any bells?) I never said Israel started wars every 5 years, I said as a group US/UK/Israel etc start them every 5 years. -- __ |
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Jun 12 2008 Anchor | |
When I was searching for references I noticed the 'myth' though those pages are generally a bit iffy. From further research, it seems you are right, Ahmadinejad did not say those exact words. He did imply them though, the very website you have linked me to states:
Honestly, do you think he's not using a metaphor to say that Israel must be wiped out? It is completely implied. You can clearly see how the Western world would worryingly interpret this this way. What worries me more is that the Islamic extremists will also interpret it this way and follow the bidding of their leader. The other quote I got:
This is not a mistranslation. Let's not play dumb, do you think Iran are talking about politely asking Israel to leave? The statement implies future military action, nuclear or not.
You shouldn't include Israel with those countries. The only war Israel was involved in with them was the Gulf War in 1991, and they weren't heavily involved in it at all - this was after Iraq had threatened to fire biological missiles at Israel. They fired missiles at Israel, but they weren't biological, Iraq was bluffing. I don't think Iran is. Israel is not hiding anything*. Iran is hiding everything. They will soon have the capacity to make nuclear weapons, whether they intend to or not strangely they're not allowing UN inspectors in and furthermore to top it off they've been alluding to, clearly or not, possible military action against Israel. Any other country would have the right to take military action against a country being this provocative, let alone make a statement saying they will if they don't watch themselves. Israel should be no different. * In the sense of this argument, of course Israel hides things like all other countries do... Edited by: JangoFett21 |
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Jun 13 2008 Anchor | |
No I think he's saying just what he said, that a regime that sanctions the dropping of phosphorus bombs on city streets because two of its soldiers were captured, and has a ruling class that behaves like Hitlers SS, or Stalins KGB needs disbanding. But, don't misjudge me, I completely understand that if Israel actually had a democracy that included everyone who lives on its land, the Jews there would be wiped out (and that has nothing to do with Iran), and no-one wants that, and I see no solution to what they want, all I (and apparently they) can see is two choices: kill everyone who might get in their way, or turn their backs and walk away. It just makes me sick to know what they will choose, but it makes me even more sick to know they will choose it because thats what the US wants them to do. Israelis are the meat for the US grinder, they will offer themselves up to their creditors, and then be tossed by the wayside when they have paid their pound of flesh. oh and I forgot "You shouldn't include Israel with those countries. The only war Israel was involved in with them was the Gulf War in 1991 ", If Isreal wan't in a perminant state of war, it would not need compulsory military service. -- __ |
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Jun 13 2008 Anchor | |
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Israeli's formation is based on an attempted fulfillment of prophecy for bringing about an end of days. To consider their actions anything less than apocalyptic is to deny the very country. As to whom is instigating? I feel this is irrelevant, if either Iran or Israel move against the other the might of the world should intervene. I feel both is being used but that Ahmanijedad has no fear as being the instigator, and Israeli is too happy to allow this. One desires the 12th Imam and the other the Messiah. That is dangerous. I choose myself carefully in order to not seem joyed at the prospect of war, nor anti-Semitic, nor anti-Islamic, the Doomsayers of them all need to be annihilated or given over. Thought it would be important to consider both being death cults and aggressors, not this bickering about whom is more antagonizing. In the simple words of your parents I do not care who started it I am ending it. |
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Jun 14 2008 Anchor | |
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People should no longer view Israel from a Jewish perspective. Israel is now largely secular, the majority of the population is of course 'Jewish' but most barely follow the religion. Even some 'important' Neo Nazi's acknowledge this and are starting to disclude Israel from their target lists. Sparks. You speak of Israel as being in the wrong for wanting their soldiers back? If Hamas and Hezbollah wanted it to stop they could offer hand back the soldiers in a peace deal, which is largely one of the reasons why Israel has been holding out on signing one. Again, I'll remind you that the soldiers were seized in an attack on Israeli soil. Israel is a democracy Sparks.
From: En.wikipedia.org I will of course point out that Jews used to have large populations, larger than that of the Arab/Muslim population in Israel in the Arab countries before 1967. Following that most were kicked out of their countries, some were arrested, some were tortured, lots were killed because of their faith and not their political affiliations. The ones that remain, (less than 500 in ALL the Arab countries put together I believe) are still prosecuted. Lets not even dare compare Israel to those Arab countries on a democratic scale shall we?
That's right. If Israel was not surrounded by enemies that want it wiped off the face of the earth (like Iran) they wouldn't need to. Sparks, I'd like to ask you a question directly. How are you talking of Israel when you're talking of them as "throwing themselves at the US meatgrinder" and "they will choose it because thats what the US wants them to do." Are you talking about "them" and "they" as?: 1. Israeli politicians? Edited by: JangoFett21 |
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| Jun 14 2008 Anchor | ||
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Iran is afraid of the west thats why they threaten Israel of a nuclear attack and total annihilation. Iran is the third country with the most oil reserves in the world, so yes they are afraid that they will be attacked and devastated by USA and its allies, exactly what happened with Iraq. Also the people of Iran support their government and Ahmadinejad cause they don't want their country to become a hellhole too, and if you have the support of the people you don't need democracy to rule. Well Israel is the closest ally of the US in the Middle East so it's just normal for Iran to threaten Israel, after all they can become ''friends'' with Iraq. On the other hand Israel is in a very bad position surrounded by Islamic nations that hate them so it's just normal for them to be ready for war although if Iran already owns some nuclear weapons it's a rather complicated situation. |
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Jun 14 2008 Anchor | |
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Hrmm, they're not really going about it the right way are they conscript? Trying to stop a country from attacking you by threatening its allies and raising oil prices ridiculously won't help much. |
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| Jun 14 2008 Anchor | ||
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They are not going to attack using their military cause they have no hope of winning a war against Israel, but they will use weapons of mass destruction or at least thats what Ahmadinejad said. I think thats a good reason for USA to cancel their plans of attacking Iran cause Israel will be endangered by nuclear attack. Of course I don't know if Iran already have nuclear weapons, but if they don't then they are in a problematic situation, facing the danger of invasion. Edited by: conscript19 |
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Jun 14 2008 Anchor | |
funny that, so Gaza and the West Bank are democratically decided borders? seeing as how Israel likes building all its settlements in the west bank (and previously gaza), all the other occupants there have a right to vote in Israel's elections?, Of course, like all politicians, those elected are chosen "by the people, for the people". Wake up, that is not the world we live in. Personally, I do not in the slightest believe any of the people claiming rights over that land have any claim whatsoever, Jerulselem has been fought over and in for thousands of years, I think anyone who wants to keep that fight going is a moronic fool.
sorry, I should have been clearer. but then the reason I didn't is because this is when things get complicated. In years gone by, most visible ultra-elite were stripped of their rights, and in many cases killed, now we pretend that anyone could be ultra-elite and all you need to do to become one is be a good little slave. They, in this case refers to the common Israeli. The fact that every country surrounding Israel 'dislikes' it, is because the ultra-elite of those countries do not recognise, or capitulate to the ultra-elite of Israel. (It would be a bit like me saying I don't recognise the Queen, I know she is there, I completely respect the power and authority she holds, but I do not recognise that as an authority over me) I have spent a bit of the past few years private study examining the ultra-elite in the UK, I have no idea who they are in Israel, they are to well hidden, and actual middle east news is something that never makes it onto our radar. conscript19, read the thread again, Israel is not "the closest ally of the US in the Middle East". Israel is one big US military base, anybody who thinks otherwise would appear to have been indoctrinated. -- __ |
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Jun 14 2008 Anchor | |
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US will struggle to beat Iran in a war. (Remember the last fully armed war we fought against a single country? WW2 anyone? Nazi Germany kicked our butts, we only won through sheer power of numbers NOT skill.) US would have to bring back compulsory conscription. You see, occupying countries isn't like it used to be when the UK was good at it (we had guns, they had sticks). Unless they are french (I'm from UK I'm allowed to single them out!! If you think Iraq is a mess. You ain't seen nothing yet. UK/US/Israeli deaths could go up to 5 or even 6 figure numbers. Good luck to all you poor suckers who get forced to fight. -- Redmotion - Black Mesa:Source Texture Artist / Skinner |
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| Jun 14 2008 Anchor | ||
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Actually the Iranian armed forces are armed and organized much better than the Iraqi army so yes the invasion would be much more difficult and the death toll higher but still victory is almost sure for the US. The military of the US has both better technology and higher number of soldiers than Iran, in case of the invasion Iran will fall sooner or later. The Iraqi armed forces were both disorganized and demoralized prior to the invasion so the victory was much easier for the coalition. Unless I'm mistaken the Iraqi military had more than 300.000 soldiers before the invasion and their casualties after the victory and occupation of the coalition forces were around 10.000 fighters. Just that shows their morale and will to defend their government. |
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