Orks - Balance and Suggestions Thread - Ultimate Apocalypse Mod (DOW SS) for Dawn of War

Use this thread specifically to talk about the faction; Orks. The Ultimate Apocalypse mod includes 12 factions in total. We require your personal feedback to improve each and every faction. This thread will definitely help us improve this faction in the future, so if there is no discussion about this faction, it is possible to assume that this faction is perfect as is. We want your every opinion, constructive criticism, and thoughts to make this faction better!

No new content requests are allowed.
No bashing.

What do you feel this race lacks?
What needs to be nerfed?
What needs a buff?

Balance in general - rate out of 10 and state why?

All questions are optional by your choosing. Feel free to also talk about something else not mentioned, but only about this faction! This faction while fighting another race is acceptable.

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Edited by: Lord_Cylarne

Give Big Mek Slugga boy honor guards or change Warlord's honor guards to something more practical at his tier, like Nobs

7/10

Remove the limit on mega-armored nobz, but also make them more expensive. Also make regular nobz stronger or less expensive. When I think of Orks, I like to think of a massive, unstoppable horde of greenskins destroying everything in their path. But right now they are just meatshields. Which would make sense, if only they didn't cost so much.

Nobz are supposed to be the strongest of all orks, right behind the warbosses, but they are just upgraded slugga boyz, and they end up being cannon fodder later in the game. Slightly increase the size of their models, reduce the squad size, and make them stronger. Think about the nobz in Warhammer40K: Space Marine. They should be like that.

Mega-armored nobz are perfect as they are. Giant, super-tough, and just scary. They are truly a force to be reckoned with. But there can only be four of them at once.. kinda pitiful when there are hundreds of other units on the battlefield. Remove the limit on them, but also make them more expensive.

Also, is there a possibility that you can bring the turrets back? Yes, Waaagh! banners are already turrets, but they are vital to the economy and using them for base defense puts them at risk of being destroyed, which cripples the entire army because no Waaagh! banners = less and less orks.

Edited by: TheGreatGargoth

I second the Nobz-should-be-bigga motion. I always thought they were kinda small considering their "rank".

I think Nobs should be more like Warhammer40K: Spare Marine too. Bigger, stronger and less of them.

orc mega dread??

I'm not really a fan of this having to research the WAAGH stuff. Also any chance of adding Ork clan traits like the Legions mod have put in?

I agree with turrets. Need something diffirent, I hate using banners for base defence.

Edited by: Solaire

You can have as much titans as you want, but only one battle fortress? Also, shoota boyz are the squishiest ranged unit in the game. They easily lose trades with any other infantry unit in the game. They should either be slightly tougher or cheaper to produce IMO.

I came across a couple bugs too:
1. My battlefortress approached the enemy base, and once I got close to a Dark Eldar citadel (superstructure) its health started draining rapidly. I had it retreat back to my base but its health continued to drop no matter how far away I was from the citadel.

2. Grot Zap guns have no armor piercing.

Edited by: TheGreatGargoth

Do they have low tier detector units? -apart from the commanders of course. I could not find any; and always building banners where I want to attack or just move my forces just to have a detector, is both annoying and expensive (since it can't move -and probably a starting tier detector unit or squad would be cheaper too).

Ork 'Ard boy leader has the wrong tooltip.

Burnas should do more damage to buildings.

Nob Leaders take too long to be produced.

Wartrakks and Wartrukks should get more weapon loadouts.

Mega-armored nobz should be elite heavy infantry for late-game, but very expensive (like space marine terminators)

Please consider

Edited by: TheGreatGargoth

Could you change it so players start the game with the Warboss in win conditions such assassination?

So I got through all of the Orks and believe it or not, I think they are now more balanced with other races, more waagh - ey and more.... how should I say it? New tech tree system implemented.

Also on top of that I did make Nobz much tougher, all bugs reported here (but of course tool tips) were fixed, and the Mega Armored Nobz are indeed in the works of becoming the bestest fighters in line with Lootas. Limit removed, maxed out to either 6 or 8.

The bigger the Orks are in numbers, the more tougher they are.

The global Waagh ability was revamped.

More grenades, more units, jeez I did a lot.

Turrets are a concern, we got no turrets but listening posts, but I'm sure some Ork turrets are out there somewhere.

Population cap can go to infinity provided you have enough resources. Lootas nerfed, Flash Gitz buffed, and the Ork unit squad max was expanded! Shoota Boyz are also cheaper. Don't get me started on Big Mek changes...

Detection stuff is getting revamped anyway.

I feel like the Orks are strong, but i also think they are missing their Wierdboyz and Warpheadz. Orks are one of the most psychic races, where are their psykers?

No psykers

Lord_Doofus wrote: No psykers

:C

Rocket-Banana wrote: :C

Or anything for you...

YAAAAAAAY! We'll (eventually) have some kinda orky weirdboy!

Some related info: Did you know all orks have their (small) share of psychic power? This pychic power isn't quite like the Eldar or Human pysker powers however. For a start, it does not drap power from the Warp. Its power source is... the orks themselves! And what does this power do? Well, ever wondered why a simple crude axe can be so powerful when an ork wields it, or how the orks can craft such complex machines? In a nutshell, it works because they believe it works. According to the lore, the more orks are reunited in an area, the more incredible feats their creations achieve, as in more crudely made weapons work, red painted trukks go even faster, and so on. This power is called of course, the WAAAGH!!
Now, an ork weirdboy is the closest equivalent to psyker for other races. He's directly connected the Waaagh!! and can literally shoot it as raw energy, kind of like a psyker does with the Warp. Some key differences however: The Waaagh!! is logically not infested by daemons waiting for a chance to consume the weirdboy, but the weirdboy can lose control over his powers and literally have his head explode (thus the death animation of the weirdboy in DoW2) in a devastating explosion that drives nearby orks insane.
And this is about as much as I can remember offhand, time to look up an article online and lazily leave a link xP Warhammer40k.wikia.com

Someone wrote: YAAAAAAAY!

Someone wrote: We'll (eventually) have some kinda orky weirdboy!

:C

Otherwise, interesting stuff. I'll note this if and only if we get orky psykers.

wow TheGreatGargoth this kid talk so much rubbish the comment u make is not balancing

I think that Waagh Banners in 1.73 have a faulty mechanism, let me explain:
with massive battles checked, Waagh Banners add +10 units cap and +3 support cap...
but with massive and extreme battles both checked, it still adds +10 units cap BUT +8 support cap.
I usually end up with max support cap at 80, but units cap only at something like 230! (30 units cap more than vanilla game, but 4x support cap!).
Also the revamped global Waagh ability doesn't increase cap when activated... don't know if this is a bug or what.
And where is now that research on Waagh Banners that increase a lot both units cap and support cap? Now I have to build a lot of Waagh Banners, taking up a lot of space... especially on small maps. Can't even find space to built a Meanest Tellyporta with all those Banners around

Edited by: Badcorb

I'm going to have to agree that the Fighta Bomba's range is absolutely insane.

@Badcorb: After a full investigation and TRYING to fix the problem you are having, I'm afraid is not possible. With these winconditions tied, if I try to make them even with the vehicle cap increment, Orks will be OP in tech and you could build 3-4 waagh banners and get titans, for example.

It is minor, but that is so far the best a modder can do. :\

Lord_Doofus wrote: @Badcorb: After a full investigation and TRYING to fix the problem you are having, I'm afraid is not possible. With these winconditions tied, if I try to make them even with the vehicle cap increment, Orks will be OP in tech and you could build 3-4 waagh banners and get titans, for example.

It is minor, but that is so far the best a modder can do. :\

mmh... yes I understand what you mean. I would say to revert to the old 1.72 tier system but then Orks would be OP (with extreme battles you could straightaway build the mek shop at the start of the game and spam killa kans to the enemy base... other than tower rushing them with waaagh banners).

Indeed I prefer the 1.73 system but my concern is that the greenskins are not as swarmy as they should be :/
Anyway, I'm still enjoying them much, especially with the new vehicles.

Doshka17 wrote: I'm going to have to agree that the Fighta Bomba's range is absolutely insane.

Yeah, fighta bomma are hard to dealt with right now... spamming them is even worse.