D51 Theme Reference Thread - Tiberium Secrets mod for C&C3: Tiberium Wars

This thread is Archived, please repost for specific feedback on ideas

This is to be used as a theme reference: D51 is a faction that draws from the themes of WWII, NASA, modern warfare and Area 51. They will have very powerful technologies that come from modern and near modern tech, which exists in our world. The idea behind this is that they recovered tech that would have existed if Tiberium wasn't on earth.

They don't believe in using Tiberium at all, and assisting GDI in cleaning up the world.

Their main focus however is functioning as GDI's space branch.

They also are affiliated with the Idris corporation, which helps fund and manage their industry.

Edited by: GeneralJist

Based on Dream Army's weapons including "plasma, hovering, high velocity missiles, hidden tech, air/space technology, and possibly fusion." Here's a unit concept.

-AHAG-99 Raven (Attack Helicopter; Anti-Gravity)
Based on a modified Comanche fuselage, it has a straight 'wing' located where a previous generation rotor assembly was placed. There is one hollow, light blue lined circle located in the wing on each side of the fuselage (acting as anti-grav resistance/ 'buoyancy' in the Earth's atmosphere). The end of the wing has a 90 degree triangle (its tip angles curved) running parallel to the fuselage of the unit, set vertically at 90 degrees from the the horizontal wing. [Hopefully I convey what I desire to say adequately enough.] Its hypotenuse it angled down, facing the front of the vehicle.

Instead of a chin mounted gun it possesses two coil guns integrated into the fuselage, one housed where the doors of the internal weapon bays once were on each side. It mounts what I've coined as high velocity "Star-Scream" missiles under the wing structure in a similar set-up to Hellfires on Apache gunships. These missiles travel very fast (hence a whining scream that gives them their name) and eject a molten core of heated metal (or in this mod's case Plasma?) upon impact.

Does this seem like something along the lines of what the Dream Army would use?

Edited by: ParaCombatant

As I understand it, a multistage 'coilgun' uses a series of coils as electromagnets to propel a projectile from rest/loading at one end of a barrel to the other side and out at high velocity. You may think 'rail gun', but the two are different. A coil is turned on as the projectile arrives at it and off as the projectile passes or has passed. Putting some type of housing over it would make for an easy render to create (as you could just say it is a coil gun while giving the barrel housing any shape you wanted). My idea for the Raven being an Equilateral triangle with curved angles. I see them mounted to a fancy box protruding from where the internal weapon bays once were. They can swivel vertically and somewhat horizontally for small accuracy adjustments, but the entire craft must rotate to adjust according to enemy movement across the battlefield.

Also another idea for this mod.

*Orbital Launched Fusion Missile (Super weapon)

Similar to the "Rods from God" concept in terms of scale. Fusion is ignited to combine with released hydrogen (panels opening up or falling away a minute or two before impact) to result in a large explosion that travels from the impack radius up along the path the missile had traveled through the sky. What the explosion doesn't kill the sonic boom moving up the missiles entry path will (starting very loud then getting softer as it moves farther away into the sky). The shell and skeleton of the missile might also fragment, creating an impromptu spread of shrapnel.

It could be smaller, launched from an aircraft as a cruise missile even, or as a friend thought up, it could be even smaller than that and shoulder fired, still with a trailing explosion after impact (but not all the way back to the operator using the launcher of course).

Maybe the Super Weapon structure could be an orbital elevator that moves necessary materials that the space station doesn't have up to a position in the high atmosphere where craft could pick up and ferry to said space station. Or stealth craft fly in from above to pick up supplies to take to orbit. Either method would explain the weapon timer/delay before firing.

---
With those two options I have another thought. A space elevator would likely be obvious to anyone looking at it on a clear day (or at night should it have illumination) while Stealth shuttles would be subtle. Based on the "Flight or Fright" mechanic I read in the April 9th update, might such a mechanic also implement a covert or overt game-play style as well. Said mechanic related Ground forces could be stealthy and discrete on a micro level, while the mechanic based air forces might be heavier hitting on a macro level.

Note: I say mechanic related/based to address that I understand not all ground units might be stealthy and not all air units will be heavily armored and heavy hitting.

This faction seems like it might prove to be a middle ground between NOD and the GDI as I see it currently (please feel free to change that opinion, for it is you project after all). Until a faction definition for the Dream Army is definite (and "Hidden Weapons" are explained), I will likely continue to suggest systems/ideas that overlap with one or the other. I like to think my box is fairly big, but that means I have trouble climbing out (in reference to my "thinking outside the box", as I'm sure you and others will come up with other/more very interesting ideas).

Thoughts?

Edited by: ParaCombatant

As you said, D51 is indeed a cross between GDI and Nod.

As for the ideas, we will consider them, however we do have our own plans for the SW, so we will have to see. We did think of the space elevator concept, but found it didn't fit at the time.

Thank you for your suggestions, and we all really appreciate your enthusiasm, keep it coming, I'm sure we will work to consider all community feedback and ideas as we proceed with our project.

Once again, keep em coming.

Well I'm glad to see individuals that acknowledge community support as a helpful tool. I by no means wish to impose my own thoughts/concepts on you guys (my apologies if I give that feeling), but rather provide ideas that might help move this product along in development (as I personally like my ideas and the premise of this mod, but I understand this is still your mod with its own goals/framework). So thanks for positive feedback on suggestions (or at least being 'nice'), you've both earned respect from me.

In regrades to the Orbital Launched Fusion Missile, Expendable Launch Vehicles could be effective, large-scale 'missiles' or something of the sort. It might make for an interesting Tier III offensive support power if scaled down (to be based off something like a Lockheed Athena II or MSLS ELV) from my idea of a super weapon (what I thought might have been based off an Atlas II evolved expendable launch vehicle).

If/when more ideas come to mind, I'll be sure to throw them up on here.

--4/14/12--

Weapon Ideas:
* "Plasma Projector"
The Plasma Projector fires a sphere of super heated plasma with an electric charge, scorching all (enemies) in their path until exploding on impact at the target.

* "Light/Heavy Plasma Lance"
The Plasma Lance is a fairly cumbersome weapon system usually used as a crew-served, vehicle-mounted, or augmented individual weapon.
Light version fires thin bolts of plasma (faster firing, lower damage, anti-infantry).
Heavy version fires thick bolts of plasma (slower firing, higher damage, anti-armor).

------

Unit Ideas:
*Black-Ops Mercenaries
Could be a theme for some early-game build-able units or call-in axillary support, armed by and made up of multiple Western Companies until re-armed (upgraded) by the Dream Army at some point during a match.

Reference: Revision Military "Batlskin"

Armament Ideas:
Might start with modern, though 'canceled', or current prototype weapon systems. A below stated upgrade could arm them with faction specific Dream Army weapons that could be default on build-able units.[1]

---

*Light Recon/Attack Vehicle
A grav-sled (not wheeled) type vehicle similar in shape to the one below, useful for reconnaissance and light attack. It could have a higher angled view port (no windows) from the roof to hood.

Reference: Joint Light Tactical Vehicle

Armament Ideas:
-Build-able Dream Army versions (and call-ins after universal upgrade is purchased) could mount twin Light or Heavy Plasma Lances.[2]
-Call-ins could use canceled/prototype systems until upgraded. Ex. CROWS XM307 GL.

---

*"Individual Robotic Combat Unit"
A heavier mid/late game 'infantry' unit (one by it self/per Squad). Variations could be made for different purposes as Dream Army could take an interest in robotics to help with manpower (such as an orbital dropped sniper unit call-in that could allow Dream Army artillery units to fire across the map like GDI Juggernauts w/ Sniper Teams). These could be fully robotic, autonomous and supervised or remotely 'piloted' by a human from a safe location (as a structure could allow for only so many to be built before another structure/building add-on or upgrade needs to be constructed).

Reference: "Mechanized Infantry" by Theo Stylianides

Armament Ideas:
-A rapid-fire micro rocket launcher that alternates fire between a HE and AP (or just EMP) round every shot.
-A Light or Heavy Plasma Lance that can be fired at all enemy units (for a robot such as this could very well have reliable accuracy even with sustained fire).[2]

------

[1]Mid/late game universal upgrade that arms Black Ops forces with
'standard' Dream Army weapons. Ex. Rapid-fire Plasma weapons and more
advanced missile systems replace default weapons used by all current and
future Black-Ops squads/units.
[2]One unit could fire the Light version, the other could fire the Heavy version.

Edited by: ParaCombatant

Very interesting, however, the mechanized unit would likely be better suited fir ASI.

In regards to the mechanized unit, yes of course that makes more sense. Should I make slight adjustments and re-post it in the appropriate thread?

+++More ideas.+++

Weapon Ideas:
* "Plasma Coated Needle Launching Device"
The PCNLD is a weapon system that fires needle-thin tungsten darts that pass through a plasma field. What leaves the weapon is a sabot-like round coated in plasma, very effective against infantry body armor and shredding anything on the other side.

* "Keystone" High-velocity Swarm Missile System
After launch a large missile travels 3/4s the way to a target before releasing an internal swarm of smaller missiles. (It is hoped this would efficiently counter any anti-missile systems.)

------

Unit Ideas:

Re-purposed Biological Containment:
Could be a theme for some mid to late game infantry units (with Black-Ops upgrading/converting to said theme but keeping their black-ops appearance once their universal upgrade is applied). Could be/ have once been the security staff and test subjects of AREA 51 that are effectively re-assigned to fight other factions after a successful test against Scrin forces (or something of the sort).

* Bio Containment Team
Anti-infantry specialists fitted with armored hazmat suits.

Armament Ideas:
-Hand-held PCNLD

---

* Emergency Eradication Team
Anti-vehicle specialists fitted with armored, exo-frame assisted hazmat suits.

Armament Ideas:
-Hand-held Heavy Plasma Lance

---

* "Bio-Soldier" Shock Trooper
Test subjects or mutated clones turned killing machines used for fast assaults on enemy positions, fighting both infantry and vehicles with ease. Could be a late-game support call-in.

Reference:

Armament Ideas:
-Miniaturized Plasma Projector

---

* UHAG-88 "Crow"
Based on an old Chinook fuselage, it is more futuristic looking (angled instead of round) with the same concept of propulsion as the Raven, replacing each rotor assembly with a ‘wing' unit.

It can transport one squad of infantry and could hold a nanite reservoir, granting it the ability to heal and repair all allied units in the immediate vicinity.

Edited by: ParaCombatant

The Key Stone missile sounds just like the cluster missile of Nod in TS, how would you make it different?

As for the biotrooper, The idea seems more fitted to Nod, and the image seems Nodish or ASIish, we're trying to direct D51 away from biomechanical hybridization, and bio mutation stuff is more greared for Colony and Nod.

Alternatively, any biomechanical stuff could als be scrin...

As for the ASI unit, ya go ahead, and aproach the unit form a ASI perspective.

Stay with the high tech plasma like ideas, they are more suited to D51 than any of the other ideas.

The Keystone is an anti-armor missile launched from vehicles. By large I did not mean to imply the size of an ICBM but instead similar in length to a Paveway Bomb or two Hellfires, one stacked on top of another. There would be no true AoE, as all damage would be applied to the unit it is launched at. My apologies for not being more clear to begin with.

As for the other topics, they raise questions I will address through a PM.

4/29/12

---

* Combat Exo Armor
Developed to meet enemy threats in hazardous environments, the Combat Exo Armor is a multipurpose machine designed to deal death to all who enter its cross-hairs.

Reference:

Armament Ideas:
-Forearm mounted Light tri-barreled plasma gatling lance
-Rear shoulder mounted ‘Keystone' VLS Tubes x4
-Rear shoulder mounted Plasma fuzzed Air-burst Missile Tubes x2 (described below; used as a player controlled ability)

Ability: Can use targeting information from another unit to launch a Plasma fuzzed Air-burst Missile at long range unit (could be a similar mechanic to GDI Sniper teams with Juggernauts). After reaching its target the missile detonates just before impact to deal area effect damage.

Upgrade Ideas:
-Plasma Projector: replaces gatling lance (w/ weapon) and ‘Keystone' VLS Tubes (w/ coolant cylinder).
-Shield: Equips unused manipulator arm with a heavy duty, forward facing shield to improve survivability.

---

* Aircraft/ Spacecraft
Build-able and/or called in by support powers.

Reference:

Armament Ideas:
[Early-game support power/strafing run]
-Twin Rapid-fire Light Plasma Lances
-Plasma Mine dispersing Bomb
[Mid/Late-game support power/strafing run]
-To Be Added
[Build-able]
-TBA

---

Edited by: ParaCombatant

I suppose the Keystone's description is heavily lore based. In game all damage would be applied to a single target, but the animation of small missile swarms released from a larger missile would simply make it unique as it streaks through the sky towards a target.

I also only reference images for ideas to provide some insight and inspiration that the unit it helps describe might relate to. Please, by all means change the looks/design and make what the image shows fit Dream Army specifications should the concept be deemed acceptable. By the way, 'hard hitting' is a bad thing?

Maybe 'Flechettes' instead of bullets? I was thinking of a twin remote Guardian-type system as an upgrade for the 'Crow' should it be implemented and thought about bullets or something else as well. That and the 'PCNLD' suggested fires a form of flechette now that I think about it.

5/8/12

Weapon Ideas:

* “Plasma Accelerator”
The Plasma Accelerator fires a constant bolt of plasma at the designated target.
OR
The Plasma Accelerator fires bolts in a rapid succession, so fast a gap between each shot is barely visible, similar to a gatling gun.

Unit Ideas:

* Hammer class [Battleship]
An all out assault oriented atmospheric/ space vessel designed to engage and destroy any enemy opposition encountered.

Armament Ideas:
-VLS High-Velocity Missile Launchers: Standard missiles possess a kinetic perpetrator for use against armored targets.
-Belly-mounted Heavy Plasma Lance Turret x2

Ability Ideas:
-By using another units targeting information, this unit can launch plasma fuzzed, air-bursting missiles that deal large AoE damage to the target area (in a similar manner to the GDI Juggernaut and Sniper Teams).

---

* Sword class [Cruiser]
A multipurpose atmospheric/ space vessel designed to fulfill both offensive and defensive roles.

Armament Ideas:
-Super-heavy Plasma Accelerator (maybe in a belly mounted or forward mounted ball turret)

Capability Ideas:
-A targeting suite relays information to friendly units for an improved firepower bonus against the targeted enemy unit.
-An advanced sensor suite detects enemy stealth units.

---

* Shield class [Frigate]
An atmospheric/ space support vessel, designed to assist other units in combat. While unarmed, this vessel maintains a substantial amount mechanical and medical equipment to repair friendly vehicles and heal friendly infantry.

---

* Dagger class [Corvette]
An atmospheric/ space anti-fighter support vessel that also handles enemy infantry and light vehicles quite easily while in atmospheric combat.

Armament Ideas:
-Dual Light Plasma Lance Turret x4 [2 turrets on top, 2 turrets on the belly]

Structure Ideas:

* Atmospheric Defense Satellites
A mid/late game defensive "structure" that hovers high off the ground, thus safe from units that have no anti-air capability. It could start with a Light Plasma Lance and be individually upgraded to a heavy version. Maybe part of the flight mechanic.

Upgrade Ideas:

* "Radar Absorbent Under-Armor Gel Application"
Makes the affected D51 units not appear on enemy mini-maps. Also un-prioritizes affected units to be undetectable (disregarded) by enemy base defenses and vehicle targeting computers. This attribute lasts until said D51 units attack or are force fired upon by the enemy player(s), computer opponents could be delayed by a few seconds (unless/until attacked) before attacking a unit that possesses this upgrade. Would also only work against computer targeting technology (NOD, GDI, ASI, and maybe Scrin forces), not visual detection or biology. Thus this upgrade could be greatly beneficial against the ASI, somewhat against the GDI and NOD, but not at all against The Colony (effectiveness against Scrin would likely falling somewhere between somewhat and not at all).

---

* "Armored Hazmat Suits"
Improves infantry survivability against biological threats (but might open up said units to ASI hack attacks). This is basically the containment idea for all D51 infantry. It could change Troopers into Containment Teams or allow them [Containment Teams] to be acquired separately, through production or as a call-in.

This might be a "fright" mechanic upgrade that could also open up the possibility for Eradication Team acquisition, either by production from a building or as a call-in as well.

---

* [Flechette?] AR Upgrade Ideas [individual per unit; maybe for the D51 Trooper]
-Barrel Extension with Thermal/Electro scope (improves range and allows for the detection of stealth units)
-Micro-Missile Launcher Conversion Kit (improves damage to vehicles)

---

* Hand-held PCNLD [individual per unit]
-Smart Flechette Under-barrel Guidance Module (improves damage, fire rate, and range marginally, allows for improved firing while on the move)
-Plasma Grenade Under-barrel Module (improves damage to vehicles, structures and infantry, clears occupied civilian structures)

---

* Hand-held Heavy Plasma Lance [Individual per unit]
-‘AoE' Module (improves anti-infantry damage by adding an area of effect bonus)
-‘Charged Shot' Module (improves anti-vehicle damage by taking time to build up energy for a concentrated shot)

Edited by: ParaCombatant

superweapon ideas (dunno if there already is one)

As the Dream army are the last keepers of red alert 3 world war 3 tech, they should have a super weapon of the stuff

Supernova prism spear ( aka sun cannon)
- shoots out a light beam with such strenght that it mimics the heat of the solar surface. while it mimics gdi in using a space mirror, the sun cannon creates a micro volcano by shooting the beam under the surface where it collides with the bottom of the earth crust and thus overheating the magma below, causing a minature extra warm lava stream getting propeled upwards, giving away massive heat in the proces. though the primary stream is unable to reach the surface, it ignites the rock around him to do the trick. after that it will just burn the surface and cool of
- the beam appears multicolored, and extremely tin. it impacts in the center of target area, doing small damage in what ever is in his way and producing a screeching noise for 2 seconds (goes right thru it, making merely a hole with a diameter of 3 feet). after impact ( lasts 2 seconds), a rumble noise will appear, and 3 seconds later the ground will show red scars and will violently explode, greatly damaging everything in the area. 2 shots on a construction yard ( needs to be in the middle of the area) and its gone.

or

Chrono Fuse projector (aka time fuse)
-the Chrono fuse uses chrono tech in a completely new way, namely, fusion. the Fuse created a whitish chrono whirlpool when used, that over a period of 3 seconds slowly decreases time until it stopped. all production, defences and units are frozen in all possible ways. during the entire period, you can hear a zooming sound that gets higher by the second. when the time is still for 3 seconds, you see a flash in the middle. and then the entire chrono field is filled with blue light. in the center, the chrono energy was so unstable that air particles were warped into each other, fusing them. the blast force is extreme, but is massively decreased to that of a nod nuke because it first need to break the chrono energy ( which is quite monumental), and cannot leave the chrono field due the literal time difference. if it was not for the chrono energy, the blast would be enough to create a second sun out of the moon if it was used in its centre.

UmbrellaSecrets wrote: Unfortunately, we already have one, it's not from Red Alert 3 and it's a real weapon. Great ideas though, however, I'm not adding anything from Red Alert, this World War III tech is going to be based on real life weapons and vehicles.

wait, scrapping stuff like tesla, prism, mirage, chrono and other supertechs, what the heck is left of ww3 tech aside from, well, bullets?

* M1G series (G1=prototype; G2=production model?)

M1 Abrams hull that replaces treads with a Grav-sled for hover locamotion. The turret is lengthened while the front section where the main barrel and coaxial MG were housed is stretched/widened.

Might be produced initially unarmed. Three individual upgrade slots could instead grant a weapon that the player can select per unit.

Armament Ideas:
One per tank (cannot be changed)
-Plasma Accelerator: a single weapon system integrated into the turret [the weapon itself offset to one side, a targeting pod offset to the other, and a coolant cylinder behind the pod]
-Plasma Projector: twin-stub barreled design at the front of a turret, a coolant cylinder at the back
-Swarm missile unit: a box set-up inclined at the rear of the turret facing forward, a sensor/ targeting suite attached to the top of the hull in front of the turret.

@ colers
Greetings. Those are two very interesting ideas. Maybe presenting them to a RA3 mod team such as Paradox would be feasible and keep them from going unused, even as a defensive structure or smaller scale weapon system for a vehicle they might work. It has been stated that D51 will utilize plasma based weapons, unique missile systems (such as ones that can accelerate to a high velocity), teleportation, space capable vessels, and hover/ anti-gravity technologies. To use those technologies and the themes presented in the first post one can better develop ideas for the Dream Army.

Edited by: ParaCombatant

imma continue spamming ideas

name: Grinder
Type: Medium walker
role: more-or-the-less an utility vehicle, anti vehicle and infantry
weapons: plasma torch circle saw ( a disc that fires out a stream of hot plasma, the disc is rotated at such speed that the plasma will spin around the disc. the disc can then be fired, cutting thru infantry and making deep scratches in iron)
looks: a 5 meter high walker with plasmatic concrete saws on his arms, nuff said.
abilities: salvage ( uses the saws to grind up walker husks into raw materials, granting you 1-4 of the walkers production costs as reward. where ever the salvage suddenly disappeared to, beats me)
story: when the construction of the moon base was done, these worker walkers were re-purposed for both salvage and combat use.

Here's the QT.
Have you read about the 'Two-Slit Trick'? If not, I strongly recommend reading about that before you begin reading about this. The principle of the 'trick' used here is based off of the principle in said earlier phenomenon.

You may have heard of the author Jim Al-Khalili. He wrote a book (that I own) called Quantum: A Guide for the Perplexed. Now, I'm no longer extremely preplexed by quantum mechanics; however, I do believe Al-Khalili did a much better job of explaining the works behind the Quantum Jewel Thief than I ever could. So; here it is, word-for-word out of the book (I have corrected his grammar in certain places however; I still rightfully credit him for everything written here, as the concept is the only thing that matters to us now):

"An international jewel thief prepares for the ultimate heist. Locked inside a vault in a high-security Swiss bank are several priceless diamonds. Getting into the vault is by no means easy, but not an insurmountable challenge for our clever thief. Once inside, however, he is faced with what appears to be an impossible task. He has several hours inside the vault provided he does not try to remove a diamond. Once he starts to remove one though, he has just 30 seconds to complete the task and make it out through the vault door before it locks him in. Since removing each diamond takes 20 seconds he can only ever steal one of them. The problem is that the security concious bank has placed the diamonds among a hundred fake ones that look identical to the real thing. Since he can only remove one he must choose carefully. There is only one way to find out and that is by shining a special blue light on the diamonds: a fake will reflect the light whereas a real one absorbs it.

But even here the bank has been ingenious. If a real diamond absorbs just a single photon of the blue light it will be destroyed. It seems the owners would rather no one get their hands on the jewels than have them fall into the wrong hands. Of course only the bank knows where they placed the real diamonds and so have no need for the blue light test."

Here allow me to explain how I visualize this vault. It's huge and contains many podiums and shelves. On each podium and/or shelf diamonds rest with a security lock attached to each and every one. The vault room is square or circular or simply designed so from each diamond resting spot the maximum time it would require for one to reach the vault door is less than 10 seconds. And 'diffusing' each lock takes 20 seconds. So, in general, this bank is pretty huge. Also, the 'way' the diamond destroys doesn't cause a ruckus that would alert any authority figure or alarm. Let me continue quoting:

"It would appear that there is no possible way the thief can succeed. Those that reflect the light from his special blue torch purchased from the Jewel-Thieves-Accessories Store are duds and he can ignore them, but he cannot be sure without destroying it if he has chosen a real one. And he knows that the odds are only about one in ten that he will make a lucky guess."

Yeah, right. More like one in one-hundred. Continuing:

"This is where a neat trick called a Quantum Non-Demolition test can be used. All the jewel thief needs is a certain type of device known as a Mach-Zehnder Interferometer. I will first outline the principles of this device."

I assume that this device is in a tube, so is easily transportable and efficient. It is very likely that it is for it is nothing too large or unbelievable to be stored in a tube. Similar to a kaleidoscope (although insides - definately not). Moving on:

"When a photon enters the interferometer it encounters a half-silvered mirror that acts as a 'beam splitter' dividing the photon wave into two components, one that is transmitted through the mirror and the other reflected. Both parts bounce back off mirrors and recombine at a second half silvered mirror. If the two intermediate mirrors are positioned carefully, the interference between the two paths can be tuned such that the photon always emerges in a certain direction. Of course placing a detector next to one of the middle (fully reflecting) mirrors so that we can see which way the photon goes, then as with the two-slit trick, this causes the quantum interference to be destroyed. Now each photon will not travel both routes at once but one or the other. In half the cases, the second half-silvered mirror ensures that the photon exits the device in the same direction it would have had no measurement been made. However, the other half of the time photons will exit in another direction, triggering an external detector to beep. So to recap, in the absence of measurement, the beeper never goes off, but if one of the mirrors is being watched the beeper will go off half the time since there will be no destructive interference stopping the photons from coming out in that direction."

Heh. That was a lot to take in. Shouldn't be surprising; however, if one has read the 'Two-Slit Trick' before. In fact, if one has read the 'TST', everything should be falling into place now and the result would be obvious...
Really, it's the engineering of this device that is the genius in my opinion. Very clever indeed...

"The jewel theif's device simply uses the diamonds instead of the lower mirror. (Ok; he fumbled a bit here. He uses a diagram to go along with the device and that diagram I don't have. However, one can easily picture the device by reading the above quote (not the one in this paragraph). See the line "...two intermediate mirrors..."? Well, they're placed above each other (with space in between), both facing inwards. The lower mirror, assuming the device is held parallel to the ground, is what will be swapped with the diamond. Sorry if it was/is hard to understand.) A fake diamond will reflect the light and the beeper never sounds. A real diamond, however, acts as a measuring device. Half the time the photon will travel along the path taking it to the diamond, and therefore destroying it. Never mind. The other half of the time the photon travels the other path. Here it is faced with a choice at the second half-silvered mirror. It is either reflected upward away from the beeper, or transmitted through and into the beeper. So, for every real diamond, the beeper will sound one quarter of the time. This signals that a real diamond is being tested, but one which is not destroyed because the photon was not measured along that path! Note the subtlety here. A fake diamond does not carry out a measurement since we do not gain 'which way' information from it."

Ingenious, although risky and one may end up losing every diamond if he/she has rotten luck. Heh. Anyway, it still is a very effective method and I find it amusing to think of such a heist

"As soon as the thief hears the beeper he simply has to remove that diamond and make his getaway. He has carried out a quantum measurement without ever touching the object he is measuring...."

Etc. Etc. Etc. So, great. Rather hilarious but ingenious and a beautiful method of illegal activity. I would like to think, however, if the thief fully understood every principle and probability behind his tricks he wouldn't need to be a criminal in the first place. Or he could be a quantum physicist who discovered this trick and used it to his evil advantage. Either way, the situations described are too good to be true in my opinion (bank security, circumstances, etc). So I hope you understand and see the potential of a unit in this. I was thinking D51 Quantum Thief. Hope I've and inspired you and thanks again.

Unit Name: Quantum Theif
Build Time: 30 Seconds
Price: 1000 Credits
Tech Tier: 3".5" (requires infantry-producing structure, credit refinery, and Tier 3 Tech building)
Unit Job: Steal credits from the enemy by walking into their Credit Refineries. One time use. Steals 2500 Credits. Remains stealthed (unless detected) during entire process. (Now, this would be similar to Allied Theif from RA; here is the Quantum catch) A side ability of the unit (activated by clicking Unit Ability Icon next to Unit Portrait once unit is selected): can approach enemy Refineries and stand a bit away from them. Then, still stealthed, pulls out its only "armament"; a Quantum Interferometer. The unit looks through the Interferometer while deciding which credits would be most valuable to steal. Light is emmitted, which is visible to the enemy. (But not too much light.) So basically now he is stealthed and is looking through Interferometer at enemy Refinery and minimal, yet visible, light is being emitted from Interferometer. The reason? Once he has decided to pick out certain credits (lets say he has to choose from random dollar notes when normally stealing, and usually grabs average 2500, so 1500profit) he picks most valuable ones. So now, after deciding stealthily for 7 seconds, he has chosen a whooping 3200 Credit Stealing plan. So now you have a potential of 3200 credits waiting a few yards away and a stealthed Theif ready. You have two options. Now he automatically unstealths (only after being allowed to look at refinery for 7 secs; he decided he couldn't take it anymore). You can either wait to build up more credit stealing potential (calculate a viable amount increase per second waited while unstealthed and looking through Interferometer; I was thinking 25 per second) OR he could make a mad dash for the refinery and take 3200 (profit 2200). Keep in mind he won't automatically dash because he is patient even while unstealthed, yet wanted to run for it now so he unstealthed (He is using every ounce of energy in his body to keep himself from running into refinery). The process can be cancelled anytime except when he is in refinery. If cancelled during ability use and 7 secs into it he won't be stealthed for awhile before re-tealthing; we want the enemies to have a chance here. If ability is used and he successfully got in Refinery he will remain inside for 10 secs. Then you can "ungarrison" him and put him to work again BUT he cannot steal from same refinery again and can be cleared out of garrisoned refinery if enemy force fires on own refinery. (his health is moderate so yes, he will be cleared before enemy can kill their own refinery; ALSO flame-toxic weapons insta-clear him). If inside refinery enemy will recieve warning but only after the 10 sec span. they can still clear him out even if no warning is present. ALSO right after he is ungarrisoned (if you choose) he will be unstealthed for awhile. A bit complicated but IMO works
Unit Description: Stealthy, costly, and dangerous yet unarmed theives who utilize complicated Quantum Mechanics to do their dirty work. May work like a normal thief. These guys have all the attributes of average infantry and are thus susceptible to things such as Tank Squishes, Instantaneous Toxic Radiation Meltdown, Instantaneous Painful Flame Death, Insta-Grenade Kill, Low-ish Health, Non-Amphibious (after a bad experience with water on his Interferometer he got Hydrophobia), Non-"Air" (afraid of heights), etc etc etc. These guys should be prioritized to kill ASAP, as one would a commando. ALSO BE SURE TO WATCH FOR THE TELL-TALE REFINERY LIGHT, as they call it Heh heh that was a lot. Probably won't work out. They should look like high tech yet still traditional Theives. MehAnd Thanks for Your support and replying (and time). I'm enthusiastic about this mod indeed. It has GREAT potential and seems it will be "hot" when it is released. Looking forward to it. And thanks again.

wait, whut? how long did it took you to type all of this?

A while, but it was done before I posted it here and not all at once. So this is a copy-paste of my previous posts combined.

No matter the length/ time taken this 'Quantum Thief' is very interesting. Give him or her a body suit, some armored pads, and a hooded cloak with properties akin to that from 'Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Future Soldier' and bam, I could see such infantry filling a perfect niche on the battlefield. However should some factions not use credits but instead some else, his/ her overall use might thus be limited correct?

That cloak, in part, brings up a point/ idea I would like to address. Another, unrelated, will follow as well.

1.) Is it possible for the units of Dream Army to possess so form of counter battlefield intelligence, and if so what might others think of?

As we know NOD rains supreme in this aspect through the use of cloaking technology and a return of burrowing capabilities, for it is a defining characteristic of the faction. Compared to the GDI (w/ powerful units and defensive networks) and Scrin (w/ brute force invasion forces), both don't care if you know they are present, as you just might as well be drowning in mass amounts of firepower once you make such a realization. Should the team decide it, a possible characteristic of the ASI might be hologram tech, which would thus help ASI with a form of deception. On the other hand The Colony is said to be able to possibly burrow under the Earth's surface while also possessing the numbers to [potentially] overrun enemy positions.

Like I have already mentioned, the Dream Army seems like it could work well as a 'jack-of-all-trades' faction. Thus, while its air/ space forces will likely be able to hold out in a slug fest with even the Scrin (once fully upgraded?), I must inquire if the ground forces (of the fright mechanic?) might benefit from deception as well?

Code wise proving plausible, and in my opinion, D51 could use radar and sensor deception to get the first shot off in an engagement. Adaptive camouflage, like what is currently in development by multiple nations, could be a lower grade form of concealment that would 'cloak' (I'll refrain from using this word as much as possible for D51) unit(s) from enemy detection at longer ranges, and only when the unit(s) are NOT in motion and NOT in view of the enemy for it to activate. Any enemy units that move up close would likely observe distortions in the concealed units position and thus reveal the target.

Due to these factors, NOD still has an advantage by being able cloak then move, being close to a target and remaining cloaked (unless detection equipment is present), and can re-cloak even when near an enemy; remaining the king of guerrilla warfare while the Dream Army still gets good method to wage war.

From this here are two ideas for D51 upgrades:

---

* 'Adaptive Camouflage Vehicle Application' grants affected vehicles small cameras and displays to conceal themselves when not in motion. A unit must also have full health for the camouflage to activate.

---

* 'Infantry Adaptive camouflage Cloaks' grant all affected infantry a hooded cloak that displays the surrounding environment, improving concealment when not in motion. Infantry ordered to move short distances can maintain concealment (something like 'x' seconds of concealed movement before the are revealed).

---

Both of these combine with the "Radar Absorbent Under-Armor Gel Application" idea might make for an interesting style of game-play for D51's "fright" mechanic that doesn't infringe upon NOD in most regards.

2.) Now for the unrelated idea. It involves a Space vessel allowing for teleportation from a D51 building that can also teleport between installations. Maybe similar to the GLA tunnel networks of CnC G ZH, these buildings could be under the "Defenses" tab and have a cap for construction, say two or three, that would allow to teleportation between them. The spaceship could generate a 'receiving' portal for a limited time (say 15 seconds) that could automatically release all units sent through it from any of these Dream Army installations.

Lastly, here are some more images for inspiration as well as another unit idea.

---

---

---

---

---

* Target Designation Team
The TDT provides a laser designator buff to allied unit’s offensive capabilities who are engaging the targeted enemy unit.

Upgrade Ideas:
‘Long-range Engagement Package’ grants the team access to an orbiting satellite weapon system slaved to any teams’ targeting unit(s). Each satellite contains a compliment of high-velocity kinetic kill missiles that it fires down on selected targets (think of it as a new method for sniping targets). [The satellite could be visible above the battlefield, one per team and thus shoot down, or ‘off map’, requiring the enemy to engage the TDT.]

---

Edited by: ParaCombatant

Personal Ion Cannons FTW. Is all I say.... WAIT... How about recreating renegade infantry.. man, the nostalgia and Chem Sprayers and Rail Guns and Ramjet Rifles and PICs (lol pictures?) and Proximity Mines and... THIS is a good idea if I do say so myself, and I must say the possibilites are endless with reincarnation of Renegade and I would like others to help expand upon this idea... I really...I cannot think straight; WHY didn't I think of this before? You modders have to give this a thought. If nothing else then T3 Infantry with Personal Ion Cannons. Greatest invention ever.

Guess I'll put off the campaign document for a while and work on churning out some ideas on these infantry.

when you develop the ideas, keep in mind we are trying to improve old concepts, not just copy paste them from previous games.

Edited by: GeneralJist

Not simply copy and paste, as I was thinking to change them and suit them for all of the three new factions aswell as keep some, although edited, for the original three. Although I can see you are not supportive of this idea, I will continue to work on the document and post it sometime later and then see what you think. Until then...

not to destroy your point, but i hardly think anything except a viscroid can be used for the Colony.

LOL true; true. But, if the Colony uses any humanoid infantry, maybe some weapons could be fitted to suit them (such as the Tiberium Flechette (redone, of course)). Anyhow, wait till I release my document and then begin your constructive criticism.

But you brought up a good point... Will the Colony have humanoid creatures like Templars or such? If I get this 'no' as an answer to this now, I'll change my document in this creation phase and it'll save trouble later...

Ignore the 'this' behind the 'no' please.

Well, yes and no, Colony will not directly produce humanoids.

They may infect humans and splice their DNA to create stuff , by using the Mutation Chamber.

But we can continue discussion in the Colony thread.

In general I do belive in retaining past concepts, however new ones and improved ones are usually more interesting.

Edited by: GeneralJist

Affirmative.