Community Feedback - Magazine Concepts image - S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Wormwood mod for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat
Return to the Zone in S.T.A.L.K.E.R: Wormwood, a high-difficulty survival-oriented realism modification for GSC Game World’s S.T.A.L.K.E.R: Call of Pripyat. Wormwood builds upon the core Stalker experience, enriching the latest in the cult game series with brand new survival mechanics, intense and realistic gunplay, new missions, levels, fleshed-out building interiors and much, much more.
We're working on some concepts for magazine icons, and we're trying to work out the best way to display different ammo types in magazines.
Etcetera has whipped up some concepts, and we'd love to hear which variant you prefer the most, as well as any feedback on the icons.
Please bear in mind that everything in the screenshot is very WIP, so don't worry too much about anything else!
One thing I'm looking at at the moment is coordinating the colour of the tape on magazines with the colour of the stripe (used in vanilla to indicate AP ammo). As ever, feedback is appreciated - would this be intuitive for new players of the mod?
I really like the tape-on-the-mag method. What about knowing how much ammo is inside, though? Would it be possible to add a condition bar like the guns have so the player could, at a glance, see approximately how much ammunition they have in a magazine?
We're still working on our mag system implementation, we'll have more info in the future on how the amount of rounds in the mag is displayed!
Feels very realistic, will you have to pick up mags that have been used by you or it will be displayed automaticly ? This feature could be a bit annoying if you have to pick it up every time you reload.
Currently you can set it in the options to either drop magazines at your feet, or return them to the inventory.
Now that's dope
The colour of tape matches the ammo type right? Like, for example black = AP rounds (on boxes in vanilla)? That would be nice. Ammo graphic is good idea as well.
That's the plan, though I may play around with the colours a bit as black tape isn't going to show up well on a black magazine.
Tape on the mags to signify ammo types seems pretty good, and easy enough. I do have a few questons, though.
-Will I have to by empty mags at camp?
-What is planned for loading/stacking said magazines?
-Will they be weapon/caliber specific, or a one-mag-fits-all approach?
-Will I be able to toss an empty one as a distraction tool?
-Can I tape two mags together for a faster reload? :p
You will need to find, scavenge or buy empty mags.
No mag tossing.
The rest of the stuff we'll have more info on at a point in the future :)
Groovy.
The long magazine icons are far too similar to each other compared to vanilla or other mods, which stick to the smaller or wider icons, and show more distinct ammo boxes and their designs. This helps to make ammo type easy to distinguish as well as to organize.
Compared to the magazine sketch in this image, most of the magazine icons are copy/paste with a small identifier in the bottom. This creates lots of repetition and dead space.
These are all candidates of how to represent a single type of special ammo. Each type would be distinct from one another, i.e. a red tape across the magazine for HP ammo compared to blue tape for AP.
If the tape is only as large on the icon as it is on the blue magazine in this image, it's still a lot of dead space and repetition :/
Well this is why we're asking for feedback, none of this is set in stone.
I'll chime in to agree that the tape graphic is the most intuitive and least complicated version. Is the number field at the top is how many mags of each type in inventory, or the number of rounds in each mag? If it's the latter, that'd be fine with me - I'd prefer one inventory slot per mag so I can (for example) see how many 5.45 x 39 mags I have at a glance.
I'm also hoping for specific mag types indicated by their inventory image. It makes the most sense as long as (judging from the pic) they have their own inventory 'tab' so you don't have two dozen mags filling up your main inventory screen.
We're aiming for one slot per magazine, with the number field denoting the number of rounds in the magazine.
We will be using different icons for each magazine - obviously, these are for 30-round STANAG 4179 5.56mm magazines used by the L85 and LR300. We've got no current plans for a tabbed inventory, though: what you're looking at in the screenshot is just a mostly empty inventory.
Ah, OK. Thanks! I'm sure you'll have unique mag icons for each weapon type, of course.
I expect you can get away with 1 x 1 icons for the smaller mags (like the 10 round mag for the Vintar / VSS and pistol mags) too, so I won't need to scroll *too* much. :D
We're planning 1x1 for small mags, 2x1 for large mags.
will we be able to refill half emptied magazines?
IMO color coding is a good idea because you can tell the ammo type just by glancing at it, so it would be quick and easy, just like in Jagged Alliance 2 v1.13.
I dig this color tape method, as you can distinguish the ammo better with that. In the heat of a battle this might be really valuable, just like it would be in real life!
It seems like there's a bandwagon for the color tape method, so I'll jump on. Just kidding, I do think the idea is great, very intuitive and simple. Perhaps you could add the little "AP" icon to the taped magazine icon so that newbies know what the tape means.
For color coding, you may not need to use different colors of tape. This example I'm thinking of would only work if you have three types of ammo, but:
1. No tape = standard ammo (7N6 5.45)
2. One stripe of tape = AP ammo (7N6M or 7N10)
3. Two stripes = HP ammo
I'm loving that you guys are taking time to ask what the community would like for new features, kudos and good luck!
We've got 3-4 ammo types for each caliber (at the moment), but using different numbers of stripes to denote "tiers" of rounds could work rather nicely, again in terms of making it intuitive which magazines contain better/more expensive rounds.
I would appreciate system similiar from 7,62 High Calibre game from Apeiron. Duct taping magazines, mixing various types of ammunition in one magazine...
System from Zone of Alienation got flaws like unintuitive way to unload etc. And surely it was too much cause you didn't used that feature like 762HC did.
Just guessing that CoP might do this better and you find better solution but overall - good luck. Balancing it to not be too much managing is difficult.
I think color tape would be a very intuitive way to show ammo types, yes. Of course, you'll still have to denote it in additional information, since they'll have to understand what color stands for what type before it can be internalized.
However, some concerns I have are over how wide a selection we'll have for magazines, and how loading works. I think a problem ZoA had was how many different magazines you could find. While it was definitely immersive, it quickly became bothersome, as suddenly you had ridiculously large areas of your inventory devoted to several types of magazines. A way to fix this that comes to mind is having a single magazine for each ammunition type - the magazine's limit is defined by the weapon currently in a slot. A problem I can see from this however is that it makes it easier to carry lots of ammunition around, since instead of having to find a bunch of a certain mag, any mag of the same caliber works.
Another problem ZoA ran into was clunky loading - it was a very tedious process (though not by any means the modder's fault - the clunkiness is because of in-game limitations) and could be punishing. As well, half-empty mags would always fill up after loading a save or leaving the area. I'm not sure of any solutions, but hopefully these can be avoided.
A recommendation I do have though is either the option to find mags taped together, or a process through which you can attach two mags, possibly through a tape item that allows you to select two mags to attach. One problem I'm seeing though is if you feel it necessary to vary the animations depending upon type or whether another is attached, that's quite the workload. Of course, this assumes that's even possible.
I agree with your idea completely, immersion vs. gameplay is always a difficult balance. Immersion is good, but you also have to keep the game NOT complicated at the same time (a bad example would be Misery). So here is an idea to share:
Instead of having both bullets and mags, plus the need to fill/refill the mags (this would become tiring really quick), how about get rid of bullets and just having mags? You have a mag in your gun, you shoot half of the mag, you reload, change to another mag, and the previous mag is gone. This would keep the mag system while keeping the game simple. Instead of having 300 rounds in your inventory and having to fill 10 empty mags, now you would just have 10 mags. Also the weapon panel would only show how many mags you have left, not the number of bullets, realistic and understandable at the same time.
Color tape is good, different color mags = different ammo types. Notice though not every gun use mags: pump-action, bolt-action, and lever-action(if there is any) guns use individual shells and bullets. For these types you might want a ammo "box" instead of mags.
Anyway keep up the good work, looking forward to see the project's progress and play it one day. You guys listen closely to the community which means you would do a great job satisfying the players. Good luck!
I actually would prefer if bullets and mags were both used. While magazines-only makes since during combat scenarios, it might be immersive to sit down by the campfire and load your magazines for the next firefight. A simple way I can think of to make loading magazines easier is foregoing real-time loading. Instead, you can have a prompt auto-load a magazine for you. This keeps things simpler while still maintaining the current system.
THIS, it would be great to have something more to do while waiting for the sunrise or nightfall or simply while resting. Besides the idea is not going around carrying 20 fully loaded magazines and 300 extra bullets for your gun (we have CoD for that), realistically you would be carrying like 4 magazines and maybe no extra ammo, that adds a different layer of immersion, now your ammo matters and you should't just waste a full magazine on something and also it helps managing the weight in your inventory, in misery i used to go out with 120 rounds for my ak (like 4 mags) and never had a problem running out of ammo
Colour tape with small sharpie text might work.
For example if there's a mag filled with 5,45x39 mm, it has a green (vanilla reference) colour tape that says the caliber, or if it has AP in it there would be a black tape right under the green one.
What about using that second from right icon, but having picture of bullet in that free space bellow the magazine with small writing of calliber on it and colored tip + keeping that counter on top? For example .223 (without color - standart FMJ, silver tip - SP), 5,56 (green tip - AP, orange tip- standart with tracer) etc. And for those who don't know color coding (or use diferent in their region) have small explanation in text description of magazine what coding is used.
And for shotguns / bolt action rifles having separate cartridge belts (you know those fancy hunting leather ones) and/or stripper clips - depands on inimations used for those rifles) with similar system and markings for rifle rounds and simple picture of loads for shotgun (one pellet - slug, three pellets - buck, lots of tiny pelets - birdshot ..becouse you know... those ravens!)
It would of course depand on weapons and ammo used in mod.
Thats what I'd like to see 8)
Tom
I first played with a mechanic like this in SoC - lost worl requital and loved it since. I was really dissapointed when i found out Misery didn't used magazines and i was hoping to see them in wormwood
It's kinda hard to discern which ammo types the mags are using, except for the obvious AP. I suggest going with a Jagged Alliance 2 style system where the colour of the tape denotes the ammo type - Grey for ball, Blue for HP, Red for AP, Yellow for tracer etc. - It's simple, and easy enough to learn.
Also the one that says "7N6M", if I'm not mistaken that's a 5.45 round but the graphic is a STANAG mag. I assume in the future the graphic is going to reflect the weapon(s) it's for?
Not sure if I already asked this, but will we have the ability to "candy cane" the ammo loads, ie have a mix of different ammo types in the same mag? Eg. 4 AP, 1 tracer, 4 AP, 1 tracer etc.