Replace the Looted Pitbull Thread - Tiberium Essence Fans

Lets get rid of the Looted Pitbull it's rubbish, the Humvee can do what it does and is an APC too, it's much more useful! I propose removing the Pitbull from the Mutant Hovel and adding a Redux'd C&C1 style Flame-tank (Tier 2 Unit) which has moderate to heavy armour, slowish movement speed and is capable of firing green tiberium fireballs that can clear garrison. Before anyone suggests this idea is treading on NOD's toes with flame capabilities i will say that every time this tank fires it has to wait a little while before firing again. I'm guessing this small to moderate cool-down time is caused by the mutants being unable to repair it correctly. As it's a vehicle it would not heal in tiberium.

Looted Flame-Tank would cost the same as the NOD equivalent but be considerably slower with additional armour and would only be able to fire every so often, it's tiberium fireballs would be super-effective against Infantry and structures but pretty-much useless against vehicles.

Edited by: M0nkfish

The Looted Pitbull would make more sense in this timeline than the Humvee, but I believe it needs to be changed a bit. Also, regarding the APC bit, there was a certain tank I remember being an APC and it did fairly well on its own.

I disagree with the idea needing a Flame Tank, instead a form of Artillery or Hit-and-Run vehicles would be nice for the Mutants.

Agree, the TD SSM laucher would be cool, withe the ability to upgrade to Chemical Missiles wich would make it loose eficciency vs Buildings and Vehicles, but would buff it against infantry, also making it able to clear garrisons. That way the Tiberium Mortar ability that makes up for the only Forgotten clearing tactic wouldn't be missed.

I think perhaps the idea of an old flame-tank was too much, i still think we should ditch the looted pitbull but i think we should replace it with these guys:

Mutant Sludger

This unit is slightly similar to the Tiberium Troopers from Kane's Wrath. This large mutant moves quickly wielding a hose connected to a tank of liquid-tiberium sludge which it can spray at its enemies.This unit is designed to clear garrison and be anti-infantry however it is far less effective than NOD's flames on infantry units but perhaps with a slightly greater range.

This Unit also has another purpose, the Sludger can fire on friendly tiberium based units (other mutants, cyborgs, scrin) to heal them when there are no crystals present, making them a kind of mutant medic and good for a support role in addition to its other qualities.

Mutant Sludger's have low HP and Armour but heal quickly in Tiberium and are significantly faster than the Blackhand (due to not carrying all that armour). When a Sludger is killed, the tank on its back explodes damaging nearby units (in the style of C&C1 flamethrower guys) leaving behind a small cluster of green tiberuim crystals. Also explodes when crushed.

I think the old Mutant Marauder model with some slight tweaks would be ideal for this unit.

Though that would be a good unit, I find it kind of cartoony. Besides the Scrin curruptor already does all this. My opinion in no way substracts value from your idea, rest assured, but I dont think that unit would really fit the mutants.

firstly the corrupter is a "tank" type not "light infantry" type and would be slower than a Sludger, secondly its more effective vs infantry than the Sludger would be, spawns contaminators (unlike the sludger) and is only available to Scrin. Whereas the Sludger would be available to all.

I have to respectfully disagree that this wouldn't fit well with the mutants as they are well known for adapting disused technology (e.g. old nod flamethrowers adapted to spray liquid tiberium) for their own purposes and it makes logical sense for them to have some kind of "medic" unit - especially if, as is suggested, they are surviving in isolated pockets - their mobility is what sets them apart from both the corruptor and the blackhand as they'd be considerably faster than both these units and also not as effective vs infantry as either of them (but still better than you average rifleman). The emphasis on the Sludger would be clearing garrison and supporting other units because of its low HP and large explosion on death, unlike the corruptor which can be sent into the frontline of battle.

The Sludger is different enough from both the Corruptor and the Blackhand to be worth being built by any side, i'm struggling to see how this idea is "cartoony", its a good deal less cartoony than the titan or avatar for example.

Ok, Let me assemble some points . Mutants live really close tro tib fields whose radiation constantly regenerates them until they turn so much into cristal that their major organs fail, or at least thatas what I remember. So, if they were to have a medic I doubt it would be fully tib based. Second, Im not disagreeing with your Sludger idea, it actually appeals to me, I just would like to see something different than a Forgotten infantry version of the vanilla Corrupter. 3rd, It seems a bit cartoony because of the healing gun bit, and the fact it heals with tib, a horrible way to shorten out a life, thats all. All Im saying is: its a good idea but it has got to fit and look natural. In the vanilla game I hardly build Corruptors or flame tanks because missiles are just too effective and the tanks are too slow, so this really just looks like a Forgotten Blackhand Squad with the vCorruptor's healling ability. I suggest giving it some more range (and less damage like you suggested) than the BH for it to be unique. Again I say, your idea appeals to me, I just have some issues with it (those wich I explained).

they live close to fields yes, but if hostile forces are controlling the fields then it makes sense for them to have an alternative to the natural tiberium in the area. Lets not forget the Mutants are very organised and resourceful and they will do what they can to survive in any situation (even in a blue zone where natural tiberium will be very limited for example) and i cant really see them not being prepared for lack of crystals, so logically i think it "fits" very well. Also i dont see why you think its an infantry version of the corruptor, it sprays different stuff, sprays it further and is also a lot faster and more vulnerable than the corruptor, doesnt create contaminators (although perhaps 5% chance of creating visceroids, once they're fixed, would be an interesting possibillity). Also the healing spray wouldnt shorten their lifespan that much, but it would increase their short term combat effectiveness. The sludger's WIDE explosion on death is something else that sets it apart from any other existing unit.

so to summerise:
Faster than both Blackhand and corruptor (slightly slower than existing nod fanatic)
Fast Healing in Tiberium fields
Low HP and Armour
Wide Area of effect exploding on death or when crushed (wider than blackhand explosion) leaving tib crystals
vulnerable to anti-infantry
tactical and support role rather than an offensive unit

Edited by: M0nkfish

I like M0nkfish's idea of Mutant Sludger. With the difference that Sludger will be another tiberium lifeform.He could look like Starcraft II Zerg baneling with Roacher attack animation. The problem is, we already have Contaminator with old Corruptor attack animation. The idea of Mutants having suicide type unit is good. But instead of Mutant Fanatic it could be fat,round-shaped Tiberium fiend-like creature to be light infantry. Especially Ahrimansiah would be excited that the family of tiberium lifeforms would increase xd But faster healing rate in tiberium than that of Visceroids would be far too OP.
Tactical,support role for suicide and almost melee unit (Blackhand,Flametank,Contaminator range) is impossible. They will need to be in squad of lets say four, or we will be forced to 3 secs build time, 200 credits price. I would avoid to be them too much similiar to buffed up Buzzer.
Weapon:Tiberium-oozing AoE, lethal to infantry, lower effectivity on vehicles,structures
Ability: Self-suicide (Exactly like Fanatic)- obviously good in large numbers on everything on ground. Question is the friendly fire.

I like the idea about the Mutant Sludger the weapon should be somthing effective against infantry ( Tiberium shards ? When it hits a unit, it does AoE damage, but very slow firing rate ? ).
Self suicide is a great idea, but instead of dealing damage, how about healing near "mutant" units or
as soon as they die, they deal decent damage to enemy, while it heals Ally Mutant units.

i had another idea; for an interesting hit & run vehicle for the mutants, i certainly think it would be cooler than the Pitbull and maybe fit to replace it but i'd be interested to hear other peoples opinions so it can develop before putting it into the Mutant Ideas Thread.

Was thinking of a motorbike and sidecar with a fast movement speed and light to medium armour, and a crew of 2 mutants, one to drive and the other to fire the sidecar-mounted mortar cannon, which would be used for ungarrisoning (as the pitbulls') but also used for anti tank purposes. It would be as fast as the pitbull (if not a little faster) and have more armour.

Was thinking of modelling it on the russian military motorcycles here: Youtu.be

I was considering the idea of having these units built weaponless and upgraded in different ways like the avatar, but with only 2 options: Mortar, for ungarrisoning and anti-tank OR Flak-cannon for anti-air and anti-infantry. But as there's a build-cap of 3 on all mutant units this specialisation seems a little pointless.

thoughts and opinions please

I like the motorcycle idea a lot.
Although a Tryke (3 wheels) would also be cool, and would separate it from both the Nod Attack Bike and the RA3 Soviet Mortarcycle, also throwing in some Dune flavour for the nostalgia induced like myself

Well a motorbike and sidecar has 3 wheels and although i can see where you're coming from with the dune reference (loved dune II) i think an uralmoto-style model would look far more beautiful in-game than a trike (and lets face it, who cares about RA3, not me! I never liked the RA games) and given the Mutants propensity to use obsolete military technology the ural would make sense as its still in active military service today, so it's likely to be just obsolete enough for them to use by the time the TE timeline rolls around. Correct me if i'm wrong but i've never heard of a trike in a military situation (but then i suppose it could be a modified civilian vehicle). Don't get me wrong i like the idea of a trike in a kind of mad-maxish type way, i just think the bike+sidecar is somehow cooler, and probably prettier. I'm also keen to inject a bit of current military technology that we see today into TE to give it some grounding in reality (as we're probably waving bye-bye to the Harpy attack helicopter ).

Edited by: M0nkfish

Sidecar,eh?
Games-workshop.com
Tweedehandsspeelgoedshop.nl xd

You were thinking about this,eh?
I.neoseeker.com But how it does look like ingame?

Or we could give 'em something like this:
Blog.newbie.se Though the Mutants dont use hover.

Thinking they could get some quad or something,but not like Dune II windshield,roofted,armored quad.But I couldnt find anything what would be different from Nod Raider buggy or Attack bike. And Dune themed trike is just Nod Attack bike with weapons of Raider buggy.

I love the Harpy, I wish it would be kept at least as a mutant vehicle since they use old stuff.
I thought the trike idead was good, its not like i disliked the ural idea, I was just suggesting a nod to older westwood games.
Its cool however it goes anyway as I never liked the Pitbull, its too much Halo like.

i like the trike idea too, if perhaps it can look like a modified civilian vehicle (sort of modified chopper-trike might be fitting). Something dune-esque for the mutants does seem a little out of place, although i do appreciate the sentiment behind it. I'd still prefer a bike+sidecar combo because its still in active military service and seems to be a logical choice for a light, versatile hit and run vehicle, and the model would look really cool. Apparently theres something similar in RA3 but i had no knowledge of this till it was mentioned here (did i mention i hate the RA games(!) so i pay them little to no attention).

Oaks wrote: Or we could give 'em something like this:
Blog.newbie.se Though the Mutants dont use hover.

Even with wheels that thing would be far too heavy for a light hit-&-run vehicle. Also, to me, it would have a "GDI-ish" look which somehow seems unfitting for the mutants.

Oaks wrote: But how it does look like ingame?

let me do some quick photoshopping and i'll do a mock up of how i imagine it to be, i'll update this post with a link

@jfpoliveira12: for the record i've been very vocal about the fact that i believe the harpy should remain as it is and remain for nod, i really dislike that weird donut thing, it doesnt look sleek enough for nod or follow their doctrine of having mixed technology levels for their units. sorry for going of topic a bit there

Edited by: M0nkfish

Hmm.Harpy thread is probably here. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Moddb.com

So,Donut thing? That means you dont like both versions of Harpy? You want old Venom to come back?
Cncseries.ru

All those Atreides Trikes,Ordos Raiders are just tree-wheeled Nod Attack bikes with guns.Guns of Raider Buggy. Giving Nod some its hybrid or even old Raider buggy is senseless. And I have fear that the roofless,windshieldless,armorless Sidecar would look strange next to Attack Bike,Raider buggy and its statistics would be strange also. Not that agile or fast like Attack bike, not that healthy and armored to overthrow Buggy, mounted gun inferior to pretty everything and to design 2 sitting Mutants,one on that lower seat with hands on mounted gun that is supposed to rotate in restrictive way is, I can guess pretty hard.

Ahh,still cant find a picture but its RA3 Soviet Mortar cycle. Its design is absurd,the recoil of the mortar would forced both men to fell from the cycle.Cycle would roll over the ground. Much longer,sleek design of Attack bike with big tires,allows it to have missile launchers on the sides.
Atleast here Images1.wikia.nocookie.net the mortar looks oversized. And where the hell are going to be all the shells. Their own weight would overweighted gunners seat.
Heheh,I have only Indiana Jones and the last crusade sidecars scenes seeing before my eyes. xd

Oaks wrote: So,Donut thing? That means you dont like both versions of Harpy? You want old Venom to come back? Cncseries.ru

No i DO NOT want the old venom back it was always a terrible cheap looking model (and i hate the engines on it)! i'm very much in the VERSION 1 camp as i love the real chopper blades on that model, VERSION 2 is what i call the donut thing, it looks silly with its fattened body and generically sci-fi in a bad way, in my opinion, version one keeps with the nod tradition of using both low-tech, and high-tech "experimental" units.

Oaks wrote: And I have fear that the roofless, windshieldless, armorless Sidecar would look strange next to Attack Bike,Raider buggy and its statistics would be strange also. Not that agile or fast like Attack bike, not that healthy and armored to overthrow Buggy, mounted gun inferior to pretty everything and to design 2 sitting Mutants,one on that lower seat with hands on mounted gun that is supposed to rotate in restrictive way is, I can guess pretty hard.

Who said anything about windshieldless or armourless? Before you criticise wait till i have some free time to mock up an image, i'm looking after two young kids most of the week but i'm pretty good in photoshop, so when i have some free time you'll see what i mean. it would still be pretty fast in my opinion (urals are fast, and agile), it would almost certainly have more armour than the attack bike, maybe nearly as much as the buggy, regarding it looking strange next to the attack bike etc, i dont think so i think it just wouldnt look "futuristic" and thats a good thing for the Mutants. the "gun" would be the mortar ability (as used by the pitbull, but for both ungarrisoning and one-shot heavy damage vs vehicles - so it wouldnt be inferior anymore just manually triggered), just wait and see what i come up with, if i have time i might even find time to mock-up an image for a "trike" variation.

Edited by: M0nkfish

Actually the only thing I liked about the Venom was the insect/alien like engines on the concept art, the rest of the vehicle was bad, The Jetsons bad. Back on topic, can't wait for Monkfish's mock up concept. Mortars only had a place in both C&C3 and RA3 (and only on mods or the expansion for RA3), when they should have been around sice RA1 (being that RA1 was WW2 in C&C universe). I need my light artillery man

"Mock-up" concept? Like its only for a joke? English phrases are pretty confusing to me. Took all the time you need, I dont want to ruin your mood during your au-pair. Your time is yours,not like we are rushing anywhere.Or you are divorced daddy? xd
I cant imagine some windshielded,armored sidecar without futuristic look. But now I get it. I think just like me,you were disgusted with that Jeep that is fast as Attack bike,yet has MLRS on it and still its supposed to be light artillery and its model size were absurd. Mini-superfast-Jeep-withMLRS.ridiculous.On the other hand,the Mutant customized Humvee,that is some decent work and idea.

Operatorchan.org
Mailer.fsu.edu
Stjohncolon.com
2.bp.blogspot.com
Meh,that requires better finding skills to dig up some image or idea how the proper Mutant sidecar should look like. Dont rush, we look forward on your concept. I would just somehow wanted to have better feeling from it.To be it good idea for Mutants.No criticism,just certain doubts.Dont let it bother you, though.

"Mock-up" means it gives you a rough idea of what the real thing would look like, i've had some interesting thoughts of design re: counteracting recoil, i should have a day to work on the concepts tomorrow as the wife isnt working so she can take the kids for a bit, if i work fast i might have something that looks pretty good in the next day or so.

Oaks wrote: I think just like me,you were disgusted with that Jeep that is fast as Attack bike,yet has MLRS on it and still its supposed to be light artillery and its model size were absurd. Mini-superfast-Jeep-withMLRS.ridiculous.On the other hand,the Mutant customized Humvee,that is some decent work and idea.

yes i never liked the pitbull, to me it looks too much like a childs toy to be believable whereas the humvee looks awesome and is more useful. Hopefully this bike would be more useful with a beefed up mortar as described above (it wouldnt need the rockets the humvee has that covered)

Sorry its taken so long guys but i finally found time to finish my mutant Motorbike + sidecar concept art, so here it is:-

note the mortar shell auto-loader built into the sidecar.

Edited by: M0nkfish

Now I fully understand what means "mock up" concept. xd
Ok, something like the Forgotten mod Mortar soldier squad in vehicle of sidecar doesnt sounds bad.
Well, what other thing would possibly any of us could think of, instead of sidecar for a pitbull.Both something like War camper or Jeep are the Humvee.I would avoid of Scrap bus. If only that sidecar wouldnt look so vulnerable to a damn pistol. I suppose that mortar has no AA. And you likely would retain the active mortar clearing garrison ability. Theres no way around it, I want to hear Carnius's,or Smallchanges,Playsmbks,Starfox100s opinion about this unit and how he would deal with it in model design.
But know this: Just a little bit of luck and amount of time will mean the end of times for Pitbulls, in TE. I am sure of that. : D
We'll make sure where the credits for sidecar idea is supposed to go to.

Oaks wrote: ...If only that sidecar wouldnt look so vulnerable to a damn pistol. I suppose that mortar has no AA. And you likely would retain the active mortar clearing garrison ability.

Urals are fast so i doubt a pistol would be able to take out the gunner, i suppose you could have him in full flak-jacket+helmet, i just thought he looked kinda cool in goggles. I suppose you could extend the mesh around the side of the car for more protection. I got no objections to you or anyone modifying this (adding extra aromour or making design changes), i just wanted to show the basic idea while keeping the intrinsic "bikeness"; also wanted to avoid making it look too heavy, it is after all only a light vehicle designed for hit and run at speed.

No the Mortar would have no AA capabilities, as stated before it would be as the Pitbull's except for as well as ungarrisoning it would also be used for one-shot heavy damage vs vehicles. AA would be the Humvee's role (and rightfully so in my opinion, as having rockets on both the Humvee and Pitbull Equivalent seems a little redundant, and rockets on a bike has already been done by NOD, they seem more at home on the humvee as its a multipurpose support vehicle).

Always interested in more people's opinions as i know this model could be very tricky. I'd be glad to see the back of the Pitbull it just looks so out of place amongst the other mutant models.

Yes a flack jacket+ helmet would go well with a weapons crew such as this one, I actually like it more than I thought I would, if Carnius keeps the military camo scheme in it and does not turn it Tiberium green, it will be awsome.
P.S.: That mortar is so smal it looks more like a handheld grenade launcher , but the forgotten already have some railgun technology so a rail mortar, or at least magnetic acceleration mortar would not be out of place, and could sport a smaller size cannon.

Maybe the Mortar could be bigger, i just thought that a smaller mortar would give less recoil and not unbalance the weight across the bike, i originally made it maybe twice as big as you see it now but then i considered weight and recoil factors (and they mount grenade launchers to urals in warzones today, so i thought to keep things in a similar scale, though the mortar would obviously produce more recoil). It should still have a reasonable range but remember this is just the initial concept art so everything about it is up for change/adaptation (including the Mortar size). If you look closely beneath the mortar cannon you'll see the shells are the regular type (think the ones in the image was from Afghanistan) - if a railgun were to be used i think we'd have either have an issue with massive recoil and/or weight distribution, thinking logically. Magnetic acceleration on a smaller scale... perhaps, but then there might be no harm in a bigger cannon. Maybe i'm thinking about this too realistically though, i really appreciate all of these ideas keep them coming. Maybe if we get enough cool ideas, then Carnius might think its a viable option.

Edited by: M0nkfish