BioShock is a shooter unlike any you've ever played, loaded with weapons and tactics never seen. You'll have a complete arsenal at your disposal from simple revolvers to grenade launchers and chemical throwers, but you'll also be forced to genetically modify your DNA to create an even more deadly weapon: you. Injectable plasmids give you super human powers: blast electrical currents into water to electrocute multiple enemies, or freeze them solid and obliterate them with the swing of a wrench.

Upload a file Report abuse Silver's Bioshock mod beta 6.0
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(Test version 7 inside! Bug found in 6.0) The focus of this mod is on increasing the game's lackluster difficulty and balancing the different possible routes of gameplay. Be prepared, this mod is much more difficult than Bioshock 1.1. Change log in RAR. The following issues are address (among others): - Plasmid and ADAM costs, and increasing difference between harvesters and gatherers - Economy, by decreasing their drop rates of Ammo/cash/hypo's/components and increasing purchase prices - Hacking, by increasing the flow speed, increasing it's rewards, and strengthening security - Security, by increasing bot/turret/camera health, increasing security reaction time and increasing security's offensive power - AI, by tweaking various AI movements, localized damage, increasing health and damage - Weapons, by increasing damage of underpowered weapons, decreasing damage of underpowered weapons, and addressing ammo concerns - Various bugfixes, including several brought about by the 1.1 patch

* Download the new 7.0 test package here!

Here's a test version of 7.0, enjoy guys.

Hacking isn't much different in this package, except for a few mild tweaks. I will probably release another version over the next month or two containing the hacking changes before I release the final version.

I officially state that Health changes don't work and I'm sorry for any inconvenience or disappointment. HOWEVER I can increase their damage resistances to make foes harder, I've already tested and confirmed it so stay tuned :)

For those who continue to use version 6.0, do NOT purchase cigarettes in vending machines, they will cause the game to crash.*

I've compiled a list of changes accrued while working on this mod. Most changes present in the game should be listed to some degree within the changelog (included in RAR file). If you have any suggestions or complaints I am open to your comments, but please if you do I would appreciate criticism WITH examples and/or actual HELP with wading through the HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF INI FILES. I'm very open to help so let me know if you can or wish to. REMEMBER that I'm VERY limited in what I can do when modding is concerned because the developers did NOT release an SDK and I am currently pushing the limits of what I can do with the INI files contained within the CONFIG.LBF file.

* Yes there is a difference between balance and difficulty. You can have a game which is very easy yet extremely imbalanced, and the same is true for the reverse. I have taken painstaking measures to ensure that my mod encompasses both of these aspects. If you feel something is too easy or too hard, please let me know. If you think something is completely imbalanced, mispriced, let me know.

* This mod is much harder than the standard Bioshock. Be warned! For truly challenging gameplay, disable Vita chambers as well as auto aim. ;)

* Loot, ammo and hypos are much harder to find. This mod has become more of a survivalist mod. Scrounge what you can, and be careful. Waste not, want not.

* Plasmids are more expensive. Tonics are more expensive. Slots are more expensive. As a result, you must spend your ADAM wisely and specialize. You will not have enough ADAM to upgrade every category or use every type of tonic.

* Security can be your friend... DON'T piss it off. Don't underestimate it either--it can also be your worst enemy.

* 2k has made certain aspects of early decks harder than some "middle of the run" decks--turrets and bots are a good example of this. Also, certain things seem to stall and not increase in difficulty for a few levels, then suddenly increase by a great deal. GENERALLY, I have implemented a progressive trend of difficulty "per deck", so overall "Per Deck" instances are changed in a manner which makes it harder as the player progresses in the game.

* Many times I will mention the word DECK when referring to the levels in Bioshock. In the configuration files, this is how they are labeled. There are 7 main decks in this game. Deck 1 is Medical. Deck 2 is Fisheries + Smuggler's Hideout. Deck 3 is Arcadia + Farmer's Market. Deck 4 is Fort Frolic. Deck 5 is Haephestus + Ryan's Office. Deck 6 is Apolo square + Hestia Chambers. Deck 7 is Fontaine Futuristics. Deck 7+ is the Prooving Grounds + Final Fight.

* There is some sort of rounding error in Bioshock that won't let me set certain plasmids and tonics to certain round costs. As a result, some plasmids may cost 241 instead of my desired 240. This can also occur with vending items. If you see something like this please let me know where you see it so I can attempt to fix it.

* If you find yourself having problems with ammo, try switching to your wrench for a little while, or use telekinesis. Also try making a few piles of loot on every level instead of leaving things behind.

* Headshots are effective. USE THEM!

* If you want any of my modding files or lists, please let me know.

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Silver's Bioshock mod beta 6.0
Post comment Comments  (0 - 50 of 84)
Commissar1032 Feb 7 2010, 10:54pm says:

I just downloaded it and played it. I must say I am very impressed by it and applaud you for such vast efforts in Bioshock modding.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Feb 8 2010, 6:27pm replied:


+1 vote   reply to comment
LORDDEREX Feb 8 2010, 7:50am says:

I hope the last boss will have much more hp then the orginal one.(future of this mod)
such easy to kill.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Feb 8 2010, 7:38pm replied:

It's harder to kill, with more powerful attacks.

Also remember that the player takes more damage and won't have many tonics/plasmids.

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Feb 26 2010, 2:06pm says:


It's amazing how such a small file can make a game that was originally much too easy, so much more engaging.

Now that I've started a new game, the harsh reality of survival in an underwater city that's been looted and fought over again and again hits you like a Bouncer's punch. I actually found myself going back to earlier levels to get precious ammunition and money, and keeping a list of where goodies could be found for use later. I'm also harvesting some Little Sisters so as to get a balance of ADAM and Tenenbaum's gifts. I'm even holding off on hacking some machines so I can use the health boost from Hacker's Delight when I really need it!
I also like how your changes made the Enrage, Extra Nutrition, and Scrounger abilities much more useful.

If only there was an SDK, you could do some more extensive changes like putting later-game splicers into early decks once Hephaestus is unlocked, or make it so that certain components are only available in certain decks to give a player more reason to visit them. Giving even the Thuggish splicers an Electro Bolt power that slows the player down would also be great. Keep up the good work!

+2 votes     reply to comment
Mazryonh Feb 27 2010, 12:41am says:

Oh, and I'm come across two bugs, both to do with CoV vending machines.

If I attempt to buy something from the very first vending machine encountered in the Medical Pavilion, the items are mislabelled. If I attempt to buy a Pep Bar, for instance, I won't actually get one, but will instead consume the next item in the list. This problem disappears once I hack the security bot in the way of the door to Emergency Access, then hack the vending machine itself.

Another problem is that if I attempt to buy Cigarettes from a vending machine with this mod active, the game will crash, every time. I can send you a save file if you want to check out this problem.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Feb 27 2010, 5:48am replied:

yes please send it to me if you can, I'll send you the email through PM.

I could have sworn Cigarettes worked for me when I tested, damn :(

+1 vote   reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Feb 27 2010, 9:49am says:

For the time being DO NOT PURCHASE CIGARETTES at a Circus of Value.

Aside from the obvious health risks, Cigarettes are also bad for your Bioshock game as they will cause it to crash.

I will release a patch removing them from the vending machines, with a few other tweaks. For now, I emphasize caution and patience.

I am sorry something like this could have slipped by me.

+2 votes   reply to comment
Mazryonh Feb 27 2010, 10:10pm replied:

Thanks for your efforts. Software bugs happen to the best of us, unfortunately.

The way I see it, buying cigarettes is not a bad way of getting more EVE when you have a lot more health than EVE. It's also a way of making certain that the Health bonus you get from hacking machines with the "Hacker's Delight" gene tonic equipped isn't wasted because you have maximum health. Similarly, buying Booze when you have high EVE and low Health before hacking a machine with Hacker's Delight equipped can help to make sure the EVE bonus is not wasted (assuming you don't have the Boozehound gene tonic equipped).

"Enrage" is more useful now that ammo is rarer. Making enemies fight one another sure saves you more resources than fighting them yourself. Security Bullseye isn't as useful, except when getting a camera to summon Security Bots to attack Big Daddies (where it's a bit too useful at lowering their health). Maybe it'd be a bit more balanced if the security alert from "Security Bullseye" was only 30 seconds long rather than 60 seconds?

"Scrounger" is also more useful since it gives you a second chance to get some much needed loot. So are "Boozehound" and "Extra Nutrition" since Booze and Food are now a lot more common in Rapture than First Aid Kits.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Mazryonh Feb 28 2010, 12:37am says:

Hate to sound like a broken record here, but there are a few things that can still be improved with the vending machines.

Ammo Bandito vending machines don't sell Frag Grenades, but do sell Proximity Mines. That's strange since Frag Grenades are basic ammo.

I've noticed that when I buy food from an unhacked CoV machine, Creme-filled cakes are there, but if I hack it, the Potato Chips replace it and the Creme-filled cakes disappear. Another odd thing that I noticed is that if I eat food in the world with an "Extra Nutrition" gene tonic equipped, I get the health bonus from the gene tonic, but if I order food from a CoV vending machine, I do not seem to get the bonus from an "Extra Nutrition" gene tonic at all. Coffee also does not seem to benefit from such a gene tonic either when consumed in the world or from a CoV vending machine.

One major problem with buying food from CoV vending machines in the vanilla game is that you CANNOT see your health when buying those items, short of pressing escape after eating each one to see your health bar. This is quite bothersome, and what I would recommend is that food instead be dispensed into the world from a CoV machine (kind of like what happens when you buy more ammo than you need), so you can eat it directly in the world while being able to see your health bar at the same time.

Can you alter the gene tonics you get by using the Research Camera? I find it odd that you get "Photographer's Eye II" from Thuggish Splicers but not from photographing Security Cameras. "Extra Nutrition III" is also quite odd when it's from Spider Splicers--something like "Wrench Lurker II" would be more appropriate in my view. Making it so that hacking turrets on the final research level doesn't automatically succeed, but rather only making the flow in the hacking game slower would also make it harder.

Again, I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, but rather I'm trying to give you the feedback you need to help make this mod reasonably better.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Feb 28 2010, 2:29pm replied:

I'd love to do some of those things but all I can do is work with what I'm given.

What I did for the vending machines is take a set list of things I wanted for every CoV machine and just copy/paste to every single machine. Unfortunately, it's hard coded into the game that certain machines can't carry certain items, so even though almost every vending machine has the exact same loot as the other machine sometimes it won't display it.

In fact there are many things that are hard coded which I cannot change :( I can't change anything to do with plasmids but their price. I can't change the value of health or eve received. I can't change camera response times or the research components. Things like this really make me wish I had some sort of SDK with which I could really make a difference.

I will look into the vending machines and see if there's anything I can do in terms of dispensing into the world but I doubt it. Also I will look into the loottables (vending and drops) and see if it's possible to fix those vending machine bugs you mentioned. At the moment I'm working on another test run and I'm up to Arcadia. I'll take a look at the loottables before I move to Fort Frolic as they are loaded every time you progress to a new level... so basically I won't see any in game changes until I reach Fort Frolic.

Btw, thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.

+1 vote   reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Feb 28 2010, 9:47pm replied:

I've been looking over the loottables and I think that the issue of changing CoV items is relegated to the first CoV machine being programmed poorly. Need mod tools :(

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 3 2010, 3:44pm says:

Hi, I've been playing around in Fort Frolic recently and noticed a few odd things.

You claim to have removed any tonic or plasmid that is available through research or picking up in the world, but apparently Extra Nutrition Two is still available for purchase in the Gatherer's Garden in the Upper Atrium of Fort Frolic, while still available for free pick-up in the basement of Poseidon Plaza.

If you had an SDK, it would be better for the player if s/he bought a plasmid/tonic from a Gatherer's Garden that was available in the world, then the pick-up version of the plasmid/tonic would become a free boost of ADAM equal to the costs of the plasmid/tonic instead, so it's really just a question of whether you want that specific sooner or later.

Also, now that the Wrench is capable of headshots, it's very easy now to shatter frozen Splicers. Of course, doing so means that you lose any loot that the Splicer may have possessed, and given that loot is rarer and thus much more valuable, maybe making the "Winter Blast" series and "Frozen Field 2" plasmids/gene tonics cheaper would be more balanced. You'll spend less ADAM to buy those powers, but you'll lose out on loot in the long run by using it to shatter Splicers.

Keep up the great work!

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 3 2010, 3:55pm replied:

Thanks I'll remove the extra nutrition tonic thanks.

Insofar as the freeing plasmids that's actually a good idea... the way I saw it is that the lost loot is the tradeoff you take for the ease of killing your foes. Remember that freezing is also useful for slowing machines for easier hacks.

Personally I NEVER use the freezing plasmid cause I always found it pointless. I'll make them a bit cheaper. I did that with Sonic Boom and Cyclone trap since they're not as useful.

PS If I could I would make it so you would get like 50-75% of the Adam by somehow extracting it. Man I want an SDK :(

+1 vote   reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 3 2010, 4:32pm replied:

K I removed the Extra Nutrition 2 tonic, and I've reduced the costs of Winter Blast series to 180-260-340 from 200-300-400. Thanks for the suggestion, I already thought it sucked as a plasmid as it is.

PS Frozen Field is not available for purchase due to it's availability in game.

+1 vote   reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 3 2010, 9:15pm replied:

I removed # 3 as well.

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 3 2010, 9:33pm replied:

Thanks, I forgot that Frozen Field 2 is ALSO available in the game world for pickup rather than for purchase at a Gatherer's Garden.

It's like the game developers were making it so that "please please PLEASE don't have a hard time with this game, so you'll give it a good review!" Whatever happened to "the tougher to crack, the sweeter the snack"?

Keep your ear to the grapevine. I'm sure some underpaid programming genius will figure out how to do what's necessary to get some real mods for this game.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 5 2010, 1:25am says:

Okay, here's a great file you can consult to double check whether a plasmid or tonic is available in the world or not:

I just finished Fort Frolic with this mod active and noticed that Medical Expert 2 is available for purchase at the Gatherer's Garden there, despite being also available for pickup in that level when you finish Cohen's masterpiece and he rewards you with that particular tonic. According to the file, Clever Inventor is also available for pickup in the world as well, but I'm glad you made Speedy Hacker 2 available earlier as well.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 5 2010, 12:17pm replied:

Thanks, I removes those as well as Alarm Expert. I knew I hadn't removed them all but I got the majority of them. Thanks for helping. I'm gonna through your name in the credits for the input :p

+1 vote   reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 6 2010, 9:54am says:

I'm finding more instances where the health increases aren't registering as they should be, I'm beginning to think that the file itself isn't really used by the game which means if I'm going to release 6.1 I should really address this first.

I might take a bit longer than I expected to finish it. More when I look into it further.

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 7 2010, 12:30am says:

I've noticed that the Human Inferno gene tonics, while available earlier than before, aren't terribly useful when combined with Level 2 Incinerate.

I've been fighting my way around Apollo Square and Olympus Heights, and using Level 2 Incinerate combined with both Human Inferno gene tonics isn't terribly damaging against those upgraded Splicers. In fact, given how common the developers made Napalm in the world, and how damaging it is with the "Consupmtion upgrade" (now there's a spelling mistake that should not have been left uncorrected) compared with Incinerate, it's hard for that plasmid to compete. Maybe making the Human Inferno gene tonics available for less ADAM would be better, since the Frozen Field and Electric Flesh series of gene tonics can be gotten for free in the game world.

I still haven't seen Frag Grenades for sale anywhere either yet. That's something I hope you can fix soon.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 7 2010, 9:35am replied:

That's weird because I've bought them at a Bandito Machine in Arcadia and then in the Farmers Market.

I'll evaluate Incinerate. I've already given it a buff once because I thought it's weak, I'll see what I can do about it.

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 7 2010, 12:42pm replied:

I'll have to check those Ammo Bandito machines again, then.

No, I don't want to make Incinerate overpowered. While technically it does more damage over time and costs less eve per casting than either of the two direct attack plasmids do, its rate of damage per casting is quite low on higher strength Splicers, and casting it multiple times on a single enemy means it ends up costing more EVE. This is especially apparent if you use the Napalm from the Chemical Thrower, which damages much more rapidly than Incinerate does. Perhaps lowering the damage rate for Napalm and moderately increasing the effectiveness of the Human Inferno tonics and the higher level Incinerate plasmids would be in order.

Do you think you can lower the drop rates for Spider Splicer Organs as well? When I was fighting my way through Fort Frolic and released the silent statue-type Spider Splicers, I was practically swimming in their organs which can be used as First Aid kits. I think it should only be an occasional boon to the player, not so frequent that they have TWO organs on them so often.

On the other side, I've been finding quite a few enzyme samples, but NO empty hypos for a while. ;_; I want to make the Bloodlust gene tonic! If only there was a way you could make enzyme samples useful for other inventable items . . .

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 7 2010, 6:33pm replied:

A shame, I had enough empty hypos for Bloodlust. Enzyme samples and distilled water are key for the Lazarus Vector so I had to give the chance to drop roughly enough so that you have enough when you search the Apiary and the Winery you get the rest that you need. I found so much distilled water, however, that I might scale back slightly on distilled water loot and put it towards hypos and such.

Right now I'm re-doing the damage resistance sets (a % modifier for how much damage they take from each source) for most splicers so you'll see that incinerate is much more useful than it was before SIMPLY because it causes so much burning and the resistance changes do not include extra burning resistance. BTW I reduced prices of both Human Inferno tonics to 180-260 respectively.

If you really can't find any grenade ammo I'll look into it again but from what I see it's all working fine. :(

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 8 2010, 12:04am replied:

So when do you think you'll upload an updated version with the feedback I've given you? I'd still have to finish this current playthrough, but I've love to do another one only with saving Little Sisters (which would be very difficult on Hard with this mod).

If there was an SDK, I'm sure we'd have something like a bigger morality scale for more different endings, like the original Jedi Knight. Or even program different animations for drinking booze (such as the one seen in Condemned 2: Bloodshot), for smoking cigarettes (Jack's a smoker alright, as seen in the intro), or even for eating food.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 8 2010, 10:47am replied:

debating whether I should release something in the interim or just go straight to 7.0 (possibly moving out of beta). I'd have to restart my test run either way since I discovered quite a few bugs/imbalances/mistakes I made. I've fixed many of these errors and I've learned a great deal more about the engine so I think I'm confident enough with it.

I might just make a cigarette patch.
Anyway if you're interested in a new version I can send you one of the builds that I'm working on. Just let me know.

PS I'm doing the crawler organs differently

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 9 2010, 8:20pm replied:

What more do you have to do get to version 7.0 then? I don't mind whether you release something in the interim or go straight to 7.0 either way, but I'd like to know what's coming.

Are you going to make the crawler organs do something like restore some of your health but hurt your EVE slightly?

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 10 2010, 1:36am replied:

I mean I'm doing something differently in terms of how the drop... previously there was a 15% chance to drop splicer organs, now there is a 15% chance to trigger another loot roll with a 40% chance to drop splicer organs and the remaining 60% is divided among other things. Hard to explain unless you know much about the loot tables. The percentages are debatable for now as I haven't tested them (I just got to Neptune's Bounty in my test run.

The thing about spider splicers is that I really want them to be harder with better loot rewards, which means the organs are almost necessary.

+1 vote   reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 10 2010, 11:51pm says:

Sorry guys I'm working on version 7 in my spare time. For the time being just avoid buying cigarettes as they're bad for your health and I'll try to assemble a small patch for 6.0 for the time being.

I officially state that Health changes don't work and I'm sorry for any inconvenience or disappointment. HOWEVER I can increase their damage resistances to make foes harder, I've already tested and confirmed it so stay tuned :)

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 11 2010, 10:38pm replied:

Have you considered making Health and EVE upgrades somewhat cheaper? Such as reducing the cost from 240 to 200 ADAM? I'm finding that even with some Harvesting I can barely afford to specialize in Incinerate (I was originally planning on getting Insect Swarm 2), and I've only upgraded my maximum health and EVE twice (not counting the bonuses from photographing Little Sisters enough times). I have only 4 Little Sisters left. :(

Have you tried increasing the cost of crossbow ammunition as well? While I have gotten $500 less often in this mod, I still get it from killing Big Daddies enough that getting all the crossbow bolts I need isn't much of a problem. Some safes also have them inside.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 12 2010, 12:08am replied:

I've already reduced costs of All slots to 220 for patch 7, and Health+Eve upgrades to 200.

Insofar as crossbow ammo I have to admit that I haven't really balanced it properly for one reason: I do not like to use it. Yes I'm guilty for avoiding it like the plague. At their cheap costs of like 20 something dollars a pop I guess I should consider nerfing them a bit, say raised to 30 or 35.. I mean you find enough laying around anyway and they barely brake with the upgrade. Plus they're virtually 1 shot items so yes. I'll change the bolts to 30, trap bolts to 40, and superheated to 50. The real numbers might be different pending me actually testing them. I'll try to bite the bullet and actually use the crossbow this time around.

While we're on the topic, do you mind if I ask what sort of plasmids and weapons you've been favoring during your run of the mod and what are your opinions on them?

+1 vote   reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 12 2010, 12:24am replied:

btw hacked prices would be lower of course, as well sa vending expert so if people think it's too expensive there are ALWAYS ways around that.

That's why I love my mod, forces creativity :o

eeee I'm so excited this is turning out to be the best version yet

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 12 2010, 10:36am replied:

As I said, I've been using Incinerate quite a lot, as well as Enrage and Telekinesis. They're pretty much the plasmids I use the most among three slots. I'm trying to get Insect Swarm 2 and an extra slot, but I'm not sure I'll be able to afford both it and Incinerate 3 with only 4 Little Sisters left.

I've been using all the weapons, actually, especially the ones that I can get ammunition for free. It's amazing how resistant Tommy Gun Leadhead Splicers are to their own weapons, which is why I even the odds by setting them on fire.

The Chemical Thrower is a fine multi-purpose weapon; I just hope you've addressed the damage rate of Napalm (with respect to Incinerate's damage rate). Electric Gel is also a quite unbalanced weapon since with the Consumption upgrade you can keep it going for quite some time and enemies can't get themselves out of the stunning effect. This problem is compounded given how cheap you can buy it from Ammo Bandito machines, and how common the components to invent this ammo type are. This could be addressed by making it more expensive to buy or invent, and/or making at least one of its invention components rarer. I would suggest that alcohol be made rarer, since you it's needed for Trap Bolts as well and it's too easy right now to invent as much as you need.

The shotgun is a bit weak in later levels, and it's funny how the explosive buckshot isn't really good against Big Daddies (it should really have been called Phosphorus Buckshot, like in Bioshock 2). The Crossbow's fine in terms of damage, except for the fact that Steel-tipped bolt bodyshots don't deal much damage to later-game Nitro and Leadhead Splicers for some reason.

Something else your mod encourages is book-keeping. I've been keeping a list and revisiting old levels for their items. Jack's quite the "Booze Hound" now, clearing out the alcoholic's paradise that is Rapture in my game, especially places like Arcadia and the Smuggler's hideout.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 12 2010, 6:04pm replied:

Well I HAVE addressed the napalm damage, I've reduced the burning damage per second to 1, from 1.2. The problem is I don't want to really work on it until I get to that point where I receive the chemical thrower. The reason being is that I've buffed a lot of early-game guns and I've increased the damage resistance of a lot of the foes (Except those really hard ones late game). So I need to retest the whole dynamic of the game and if I find the chem thrower to be imbalanced still I'll adjust it.

if you really want to see what I'm up to, hit this link and you can read my latest changes :p

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 12 2010, 7:57pm replied:

Hmm, the file looks very good. My only suggestion would be to make it so that melee splicers are a little more resistant to bullet-type damage. Since they can't retaliate against ranged attacks, I think it would be more balanced if they were more able to weather such attacks until they got within smacking distance.

Still, this mod is shaping up to look very nice. So many of the mods here are inactive or dead, and I'm glad this mod isn't one of them.

+1 vote     reply to comment
psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 13 2010, 4:55pm replied:

Well the ranged damage counts as generic piercing. All bullets are generic piercing except anti personnel or armor piercing (they have their own modifiers). Here is an example of the current damage sets for Medical Deck melee splicers in 7.0:

Resistance=(Type=STIMULUS_AIGenericPiercing, AmountModification=0.80, ChanceModification=1.0)
Resistance=(Type=STIMULUS_AIArmorPiercing, AmountModification=0.80, ChanceModification=1.0)
Resistance=(Type=STIMULUS_AIAntiPersonnel, AmountModification=4.80, ChanceModification=1.0)
Resistance=(Type=STIMULUS_AIBludgeoning, AmountModification=0.80, ChanceModification=1.0)
Resistance=(Type=STIMULUS_AIHeat, AmountModification=0.80, ChanceModification=1.0)
Resistance=(Type=STIMULUS_AICold, AmountModification=0.80, ChanceModification=1.0)
Resistance=(Type=STIMULUS_AIElectric, AmountModification=0.80, ChanceModification=1.0)
Resistance=(Type=STIMULUS_AIExplosive, AmountModification=0.80, ChanceModification=1.0)
Resistance=(Type=STIMULUS_AIFalling, AmountModification=1.0, ChanceModification=1.0)

In Bioshock 1.1 everything would be at 1.0 except anti personnel which would be set to 6.0. As you see I have reduced everything by 20% except falling damage (which means their resistance has INCREASED by 20%). So basically ranged damage has been reduced and I'm increasing wrench damage slightly to compensate. As generic piercing is included that means ranged damage is included as well. Also if you see my patch notes you see I'm gradually reverting my wrench damage to allow both forms of combat.

I post this simply to reassure you since you've been such a vocal supporter and I appreciate your help. Hope it helps to alleviate your doubts and that you understand I'm basically on the same page.

(PS) Upon more testing, if it's necessary I will further buff ranged damage exclusively versus melee foes.

+1 vote   reply to comment
Mazryonh Mar 13 2010, 6:40pm says:

Thanks. I also hope that the cryokinetic Houdini splicers are tougher, since the following file claims that Houdini splicers who throw icicles instead of fire don't have much increased health from the earlier pyrokinetic Houdini splicers. If you had access to an SDK I'd sure like to see them in more levels than just Fontaine Futuristics.

I hope you do make alcohol rarer since it is key to making Trap Bolts and Electric Gel, both items that are too easy to invent right now. Increasing Electric Gel's costs would also be prudent, as I mentioned before.

Would it be at all possible to make splicers spawn in faster in the higher levels to keep players on their toes? Or would that just lead to an oversupply in the ammunition they happen to carry?

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psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 14 2010, 1:19am says:

I can make them spawn faster globally, not per level.

I will see what I can do about alcohol but as of right now in the loot tables it has the EXACT same drop percentage as the rest of the components so really it's just the luck of the draw. Maybe if I move it down on the list a little that might help, but I generally haven't encountered the same problem.

I'll check into the cryokinetic splicers after I revise the shock durations... they're really stupid and not even mildly consistent.

(PS) I think part of the reason your napalm is doing extra ridiculous damage is the human inferno tonic.

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Mazryonh Mar 15 2010, 12:00am replied:

Okay, something very strange just happened. In the current revision I'm playing, I just broke into Sander Cohen's apartment, with all other weapon upgrades applied, and when I tried to use the "Power to the People" machine, the upgrade list was BLANK!

The only upgrade I hadn't applied up to that point was the Grenade Launcher's damage upgrade. Does that mean in this mod you disabled that particular weapon upgrade?

Oh, and I meant that even with a Human Inferno tonic applied in the revision I'm playing, Napalm still had a far higher damage-over-time ratio. Napalm's quite common too, even without the random loot drops. Just wanted to clarify here.

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psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 15 2010, 1:35am replied:

WOW, I had not encountered that, thank you. I will look into it ASAP. I do NOT know what exactly could have caused it as I have no way of influencing a PTTP machines but it's still possible that something in my mod has had an adverse effect... however it is also possible that that machine simply did not actually have that upgrade.

The thing about Napalm, Electic Gel, etc is that I can't really effect their availability in the environment... which is exactly why I do not have it drop as loot (except with napalm and flame turrets). As I said I'll look into possibly balancing the chem thrower soon. I just finished cataloging the shock times so I can more easily redo them, then it's onto other things. :)

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Mazryonh Mar 18 2010, 9:40pm replied:

Yep, I hope the new version 7.0 comes soon.

Do prices of this mod vary with the difficulty selected? Even with the fact that Big Daddies now drop the majority of the money to be had in this mod, I find myself a little too rich at times (so much so that I find myself buying out certain machines to lighten Jack's wallet). Making medkits and EVE hypos more expensive, maybe 40 or 50 Rapture dollars each would be better.

Scaling ammo prices so that the more useful ammunition types get more expensive would also be nice. Right now the uncommon and rare ammo types at the Ammo Bandito machines cost the same.

This would make the Extra Nutrition, Booze Hound, Scrounger, and Vending Expert tonics that much more useful, as well as food and booze in general. After all, didn't the CoV CEO say something along the lines of "sure, we gouge our customers, but we're a monopoly, so where else are they going to go"?

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Mazryonh Mar 18 2010, 10:34pm says:

Oh, and I forgot to mention that EVE Link 1 is overpriced since you get EVE Link 2 for free in the Farmer's Market. EVE Link 1 is 300 ADAM now, maybe 200 ADAM or even 150 ADAM would be nice, given how little EVE it actually gives you when you use a 1st Aid kit.

It would have made more sense from a game development standpoint if you got EVE Link 1 for free, not EVE Link 2.

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psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 19 2010, 8:20am says:

Plasmid price changes so far for next patch:

- Increased price of Electro Bolt 3 to 420, from 400.
- Increased price of Incinerate 3 to 420, from 400.
- Reduced price of Extra Nutrition 1 to 120 ADAM, from 140.
- Fixed error in pricing table for Extra Nutrition 1 where it cost 100 instead of 120 in Fort Frolic.
- Reduced prices of the Winter Blast plasmids to 170-280-390 from 200-300-400 respectively.
- Reduced prices of the Insect Swarm plasmids to 170-280-390 from 200-300-400 respectively.
- Reduced the price of Eve Link 1 to 180, from 300.
- Reduced the price of Organic Pockets to 420, from 480.
- Fixed error in pricing table for both Decoy and Enrage plasmids, tabled values changed to 240, from 200.

Already changed EVE Link XD

So far I'm really liking the changes for patch 7, as the shock duration changes alone have really balanced Ionic Gel and made Electro Bolt slightly less overpowered than it was before. If you're interested in testing it let me know when you're ready for another run.

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Mazryonh Mar 20 2010, 10:36pm replied:

Sure, I'd love to try out a new build soon. I'm about to enter the Proving Grounds and am agonizing about just how to spend my last 1031 ADAM. I know it won't be enough--I'm going to have to spend at LEAST 480 on all-too-rare Health and EVE upgrades with the current pricing system. I was hoping to get a fourth Plasmid slot and Insect Swarm 3, but it may turn out that I'll be stuck with getting Human Inferno 2 instead.

Don't tell me--have you made it so that the security systems in the Proving Grounds require SEVEN engineering slots? If true, that'll mean I'll be out ANOTHER 240 ADAM, or even lock myself out of hacking the machines in the museum altogether if I spend all my ADAM now.

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psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 21 2010, 10:35am replied:

nah they take 5 slots.

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Mazryonh Mar 21 2010, 2:35pm replied:

Oops, silly me. I forgot that there are only 6 slots for plasmids and tonics (of any sort) in the game. Still, it was smart of you from a game design standpoint to NOT continue the "each subsequent stage requires one more Engineering Tonic slot in order to hack the machines there" trend in the Proving Grounds, since there's no more ADAM available once you leave Fontaine Futuristics.

If that trend had continued, it would have been very possible for players to lock themselves out of hacking entirely in that stage, if they spent all their remaining ADAM before entering the Proving Grounds.

I know you said you've already reduced the ADAM costs for the Vending Expert gene tonics (something that should have been done from the outset, given how specialized that Gene Tonic series is), but do the Vending Expert Gene Tonics decrease the Buyout cost for hacking machines as well? That could be one way the Vending Expert series could be at least somewhat useful in combat, though I think the developers should have made it so that you can't activate the Hacker's Delight healing bonus if you use an Auto-Hack tool or bribe the machine to be on your side.

Are you going to make ammo, medkit, and EVE hypos more expensive with increasing difficulty levels too? That could be another way to entice players to use the Vending Expert series.

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psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 23 2010, 2:11am replied:

Honestly I'm not sure if the Vending Expert tonic works for buyout, as far as I'm aware it does not.

I agree that instant hacks should not give health bonuses but if they didn't would you really buy Hacker's Delight? Also remember that once you research bots and turrets to their max level they are instant hacked... late game it would be a useless tonic.

I'll re-evaluate prices for the Bandito and Circus of Value vending machines for release 8.0. Right now I'm happy with what they are as they're still more expensive than they were, but I might want to look at them from a cost/damage point of view for subsequent releases... I am not sure, however, about increasing costs of ammo and such per deck. The point of it is that at the higher levels you need more ammo/health to survive and thus you need to buy more anyway. The increase in spending is compensated by the increase in cash drops from Big Daddies and splicers.

Anyway if you remember you asked about bolt increases and those price changes I made are still in effect for version 7. :)

(PS I was considering making the little sister whom you protect in the proving grounds drop a little Adam, maybe 20-40. I'm not sure though because it could simply be farmed. However for the honest people if they're not doing very well and they actually lose little sisters they could use the help.)

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Sergio1992 Mar 21 2010, 12:56pm says:

Hi Psikoticsilver, I tried to contact you inside 2k forum, but it seems I wasn't successfull.
I wish to know if you are gonna upload version 7 of your mod soon ;D, and if it will be finally out of "beta" status

+1 vote     reply to comment
Sergio1992 Mar 22 2010, 6:27pm says:

ah, two things: why don't you make possible to find some adam in splicer corpse? Or why don't you make us to be able to buy adam for dollars? It would be awesomeness :P
Sorry if I made two posts ;D

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psikoticsilver Author
psikoticsilver Mar 23 2010, 2:17am replied:

Sorry I haven't checked the 2kforums recently due to lack of real interest I have found from the users that frequent that particular forum.

I have experimented with allowing the player to buy Adam but there was no value programmed into the game and thus I can only offer it for free from Circus of Value machines. Since I don't want to make an easy button the only other option is as you said, allowing us to find Adam on splicer corpses. I have not tried it but it completely possible. It would require me to completely re-balance the Adam system so I wouldn't probably implement that until release 8.

And yes, if all goes well I will consider the mod out of Beta at 7.0. I just finished reworking the shock times for Electro Bolt so that needs to be test as well. RIGHT NOW I'm working on revamping the entire hacking system to make it challenging but not impossible. Right now I really consider it hard just not challenging.

Most likely I'll be done with implementing the most game-altering changes by the weekend and if I am then I will have a version available for testing if you are interested in a pre-release copy. If you are I'd appreciate some feedback.

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