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Report RSS Erkenbrand's Westfolders (view original)
Erkenbrand's Westfolders
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MathijsRevora Author
MathijsRevora - - 4,017 comments

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Dubycapbra
Dubycapbra - - 313 comments

Best looking Rohan unit confirmed.

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MathijsRevora Author
MathijsRevora - - 4,017 comments

Hey we're not done yet.

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Guest
Guest - - 689,427 comments

"Helm! Helm! Forth Helmingas!

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Balrog_of_Morgoth
Balrog_of_Morgoth - - 1,160 comments

Why they look like Russians ? Helmet, shield, weapon, armor all of them Russian. I thought Rohan had nomadic and nordic culture mix. Why Slavic ?

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MathijsRevora Author
MathijsRevora - - 4,017 comments

Helmet: Typical Anglo-saxon/Viking.
Shield: A kite shield, Norman.
Weapon: A seax, type of knife/sword used by basically everybody in Europe, Vikings included.

So... not so much!

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Balrog_of_Morgoth
Balrog_of_Morgoth - - 1,160 comments

They look like Boyars of Russia in the middle ages.

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hvm97
hvm97 - - 74 comments

i like the idea rohan soldiers looking like vikings

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Hoar
Hoar - - 1,682 comments

The thing about the dark ages is that basically everyone looked very similar. That is because there were no nation states. Most notions of people looking different and using a technology specific to a culture are probably modern stereotypes.

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Balrog_of_Morgoth
Balrog_of_Morgoth - - 1,160 comments

I agree to some but not the whole. Even in the dark ages armies used different colors on shields and clothes to distinguish friendly from enemy.

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Hoar
Hoar - - 1,682 comments

How would you know that? There is no pigmentacion left on the archeological findings and I do not recall any kind of mention in a written source. This could be a thing on art but even there it's not always the case.

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Dharko
Dharko - - 80 comments

If They can kill orcs or some Balrog hidden in a forgotten mountain, Who cares the clothes.

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Balrog_of_Morgoth
Balrog_of_Morgoth - - 1,160 comments

Ok for orcs but killing a Balrog ??? Hold on there bro.

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JoeFerris
JoeFerris - - 120 comments

That's reserved for the elf lords, not mortal men of the Third-almost fourth age from a kingdom made of mostly wood and hay

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Dharko
Dharko - - 80 comments

Ok, elf lords and mortal women, remember Éowyn.

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Dharko
Dharko - - 80 comments

In my maps it will happen for sure mate ;D

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WicingesFela
WicingesFela - - 275 comments

Not quite sure what you mean by "Russian". The Kite shield and reliance on mail for body protection indicates the influences came primarily from Early Medieval armour. What we would have called Russians at that time did not exist, so either you're referring to baltic Slav nations or you're referring to the Norwegian settlers called the Rus.

If you're referring to the Rus, then you're actually thinking of Scandinavian armour (this wouldn't be out of place when Rohan was inspired by the Anglo-Saxons). The only potentially slavic influence here would be the helmet hair, but this was greatly prominent across Early Medieval European armies - especially amongst Franks.

If we were to get nitpickey, the helmet is clearly Anglo-Saxon; the face piece and mail neck protection are both key characteristics of an Anglo-Saxon Ealdorman helm. I'm not sure about the spaulders and gauntlets. Early Medieval soldiers relied almost exclusively on mail. The Kite shield is also a Frankish armour piece, but as the Rohirrim were cavalry, and the kite shield is a cavalry shield, this isn't out of place here.

Basically, do you have any reference points for your scepticism? Like any archaeological evidence of similar armour pieces or academic sources? Or is this presumption?

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Balrog_of_Morgoth
Balrog_of_Morgoth - - 1,160 comments

Just google these two : "arms and armor in medieval russia" and "boyar armor". You can see the same helmets and armors. Scale armor over chain mail is very common in eastern europe armies of the time. Kievan Rus and Novgorod to be specifically. None of my saying is presumption its completely on historical looking of armor at the medieval times of today Russia. I cant remember the name of the helmet at the moment but I will say it when I look it up.

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MathijsRevora Author
MathijsRevora - - 4,017 comments

I'm sure we'd find similar armors if we googled that (I did, wasn't that similar, certainly not as similar as the sources others and myself provided above) but the point is that these armors were worn by a lot of people all over Europe, most definitely including Norsemen and Anglo-saxons, which the Rohirrim are based on and were worn *first* by those peoples, or not by 'Russians' at all (ie. the kite shield, which is a distinct Norman/Western European piece of equipment). The helmet is based on a Vendel helmet, which predates Kievan Rus' and Novgorod objects (of which the former were likely Norsemen, the latter definitely). Sword is a very common langseax, and the scale over mail is inspired by Weta's depiction of the Rohirrim.

Yes, I'm sure they partly resemble 'Russians' but that's because those Russians resembled other cultures and vice versa, like Hoar mentioned. Now it's true that these kind of 'mail-covered' designs are, in modern media, often associated with 'Eastern Europe' (and places further east than that) but saying they look 'Russian' rather than Norse/Anglo-saxon is a misconception - but one you're entirely entitled to have.

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WicingesFela
WicingesFela - - 275 comments

I did not ask for "Google searches". I asked for tangible archaeological evidence with academic sources. As I said, much of these armours were common across Europe due to the wide migration of Germanic peoples (see Halsall "The Barbarian Migrations"). I also specified that the Rus have Scandinavian descent, so a similarity in armour is not inconceivable but DOES NOT prove your point.

Furthermore, if you were to do more substantial research, the helmet in question (EXCEPT the horsehair) is distinctly Anglo-Saxon in style. I shall provide a reference if you desire academic sources.

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WicingesFela
WicingesFela - - 275 comments

To clarify, I disagree with your point because you anchor an idea that the armour in question is Russian on only limited visual evidence. By claiming that this Westfold warrior's armour looks Russian, you implicitely suggest the armour is not Anglo-Saxon, and therefore dismiss all other influences.

That is primarily why your argument is questionable, because quite simply elements of this armour are closer to other Early Medieval armour pieces.

An example is the helmet; the face piece, and mail, can be seen on re-enactor helments for High Medieval Boyar recreated helms. However, the difference is in the top, where Boyar helms are typically depicted as pointed and metal. Anglo-Saxon helmets are more rounded and have a leather casing. The horsehair his the only contentious area, but we can't really debate this point succinctly because most Mid-European helmets had this style due to Gothic influences (remember the Visigoths did rule the Aquitaine region of France in the AD600s, and the Ostrogoths had ruled Italy at a similar time.

This goes for the scale armour too, which was a key trait of Gothic armour. That armour influence spreads across France, Germany, Italy and Spain so we can't pinpoint any distinct culture for the body armour. The shield is easier, as it is a cavalry Kite shield used by Franks and later Normans. That is less contentious, but also diverts us further from Russian visuals, primarily as the kite design you might find there is much more stout and suited to ground forces than the shield depicted here.

Therefore, what we have is similarities between this armour and many others. That the armour "looks Russian" does not mean it looks "more Russian" than any other armour of the period. I would argue that the armour looks fairly "early Medieval", and incorporates a variety of culture designs, based off the points I made above.

In other words, your approach to this issue is fairly binary; either these soldiers look Russian or they do not. This takes into account neither the complexity of acculturation (and its influences on expression of culture), nor the inherent similarities of attire in the period due to the wide migrations of numerous ethnic groups. That is why I dispute your view, because it does not take into account any other perspective than knowing what Russian Boyar armour looks like.

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DúnedainRanger Creator
DúnedainRanger - - 954 comments

Now that's a model critique. Interesting information there.

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MattTheLegoman Creator
MattTheLegoman - - 1,258 comments

Thank you, Dendrotheos for your article! =D

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Argeomer
Argeomer - - 5,578 comments

omg! AAAAH!those guys must get laid all the time!

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Sr_Dark
Sr_Dark - - 429 comments

How old are you?

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GrandSerpent
GrandSerpent - - 537 comments

Resemble also Eastern Roman Skutatoi, X-XI century.

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lord_ellessar
lord_ellessar - - 1,939 comments

I think they are to dirty for rohan aspect :) but despite that i like them :)

yes i think they are to much "brown" :)

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Araval
Araval - - 514 comments

Badass!

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Guest
Guest - - 689,427 comments

Where now the horse and the rider?
Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk,
And the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring,
And the red fire glowing?

youtube.com/watch?v=2YTBgFmK_bs

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Description

A specialized unit for Rohan. Concept design by FelipeNN.