Early Economy Too Easy? Thread - MISERY mod for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat

Hey guys first of all awesome job on the mod, i played SoC recently and wow - this series is amazing considering how old it is. How immersive and challenging it can be, how smart the AI can be (spreading out, trying to flank and take best cover) how original especially for an FPS it is, just to name a few aspects.

I did some research and apparently the way to go is CoP with this Misery mod next for more of a challenge and/or really make the game last. So i just started it, The Black Road start with Hardcore AI Aim and the start was great.

After the first few days though (both ingame and real time) i'm still in Zaton? but have the 75K all resist suit, 50K on 2 brand new weapons, 3 arti containers and gas stove + most other extras and another 80k spare. With every crafting mat i've found during all that in my stash ready for gear maintenance.

I feel like i just reached the point where everything is now going to be easy (rocking a brand new AKS-74 modern w/ scope and shotgun) and that the economy and gear progression is already mostly over. Unless a whole new world of gear of both utility and offensive/defensive opens up in new areas/settlements that cost much more.

Being able to loot what NPCs kill and being able to kill and loot Stalkers and other NPCs is where 90% of my economy came from (until it got me going, but was still a majority.) I understand carcass decay, NPCs being able to loot their kills, and it taking time to loot kills making it risky in combat, reduces this problem somewhat. I also understand the fact it's pretty cool listening for gunshots and heading towards them every time, for some free loots and kills. But it still seems to be pretty OP in the (not so) long run. At the very least it's too easy to kill Stalkers/NPCs - most of the time one shotgun shot can kill 2 - 3 from headshots and then another shot or 2 for anyone still alive, while they're still pulling their guns out and with minimal repercussions, at least from Stalkers from what i gather. (I'm not sure if Beard or that settlement can even dislike you for a period of time anymore, i've only had 1 or 2 random stalker groups come for me that i just easily ran away from) So maybe if NPC groups when patrolling were a little more spread out and react quicker, so they can't be instagibbed by Shotguns or Grenades etc, but that still doesn't solve the bigger problem - over-saturated looting with minimal to no risk, as a whole.

Added to the above the weight you can carry being so little (even with just gear, couple arti containers and couple weapons) and stamina being so taxing (even with being well rested, stamina running: high and all other athletics medium as Sniper, while dismantling all weaponry found just for weight loss) making it so i spent the majority of the early game running back and forth from town to maybe 1 or 2 places, while then encountering much more of the above mentioned free loots, which got me overburdened quicker, which then sent me back to town more, which then made more trips which then made me encounter more free loots...... Then i saw armor sold for 20k to 30k that barely resists anything, or i can get full resists for all effects for "only" 75k from the very first vendor in the game, so i may as well do a couple more trips for that and then it's only 20k - 30k for a brand new weapon.

So the fact that you can easily kill and loot NPCs with minimal repercussions - for at least Stalkers and loot NPCs kills while having so many of these encounters, from so many trips back to town needing to be made from low stamina/carry weight and all the free loots along the way, let alone any room for the actual place you were heading to, kinda kills the economy and progression early.

I don't think "adjusting the early game grind" would be the best way to go either, but instead working on the underlying problems causing extra and easy looting which would solve the potential problem for the entire game, giving a much smoother progression curve instead of a short and sharp one.

Again, maybe Stalkers being more spread out and reacting quicker when you attack so you actually have to fight them - not just execute them, Maybe allow them to loot during combat as well so you can't quicksave and try loot everything before they get the chance to. Maybe make carry weight and stamina not so punishing because it doesn't really add much especially challenge, just makes things more tedious and more runs for more random free loot causing economy bloat. Maybe not give access to a suit with max all effect resists at the start of the game, even for 75k. Maybe Make it so you can't kill too many NPCs including Stalkers. Not sure if changes like these are possible in mods, but it'd help to try fix the issue while still maintaining the potentially fun aspects like chasing gunshots for loots etc.

Is it just me? What do you guys think? Maybe as a newer player and not knowing what gear etc is required for anomalies and so not being able to even do half of Zaton at the start, while running around to find out the long way what i can and cant do, caused a few more trips which caused a bit more looting which caused a bit more economy bloat - but overall i feel it's mostly down to the balance/mechanics as much as the new player experience - it's probably worse for vets that know what you're doing.

I guess if nothing else i still have to actually beat the game, with the misery mod, hardcore AI aim and beefed up mutants - with my shiny new weapons and gear.

EDIT: Not to mention it gives you an insane amount of everything to the point of not needing any more - crafting mats, consumables, ammo etc and so stashes and the looting and survival aspect in general, becomes trivialized before long as well.

Edited by: Whiskiz

Personally, I consider following others around and stealing their loot pretty lame. I have never done it in 7000+ hours of play. You only refer to stalkers, without mentioning their affiliations (bandit, mercenaries, loners, Duty, Freedom, etc.) so I have no idea who you are killing 2-3 of with shotgun head shots. You are certainly not walking up to the waste processing plant and shooting 2-3 Mercenaries in the head without being swarmed by the other 10-12.

I consider stalkers to be loners. You can't kill loners, Duty, or Freedom without making enemies of their clans. Shooting loners will get you banned from trading and can kill quest lines.

I personally play without using traders AT ALL. I only barter with non-trader NPC's and use mechanics for upgrades. The only exception is purchasing one weapon from Nimble. I live entirely off what I barter/loot. I never accompany other squads around leeching off their kills or letting them do my fighting.

You can customize the trader files (mod them) and change what is available at what points without too much difficulty. I simply don't use them. It forces adapting to what is available, conservation of ammo, and forces you to tackle tougher squads to get better gear classes and you still have to repair them and scrounge ammo.

Foregoing looting any non-quest stashes is another way to increase the challenge, or using no weapon/armor upgrades from mechanics either. All these things can be done without modding and a little self control.

You have not even been to any of the tougher locales or maps yet, so you have not experienced much MISERY yet.

"Personally, I consider following others around and stealing their loot pretty lame"

I was talking about the whole hearing gun shots and going to those along the way for loots and/or survival, as a new player, not specifically following them to do so. The mod puts itself across as hardcore where you need to do anything to survive, loading screens even say to keep weapons around with low proficiency cause resources like ammo are sparse and another one saying do whatever it takes to win a fight and survive. So i started with the survival is key do what it takes to get by mindset, not realizing everything actually becomes trivialized before long if you do so. Otherwise i probably would have foregone killing NPCs and looting their kills. Thinking about starting again.

"You only refer to stalkers, without mentioning their affiliations (bandit, mercenaries, loners, Duty, Freedom, etc.)"

Well i mean if you hover over random patrols long enough some say Duty or Freedom, or actually Stalker so i'm talking about the actual Stalkers (or Loners i guess they're classed as.) Again there wasn't any repercussions for killing them, besides a random group of stalkers or 2 hunting me out of all the killing of them i did, for a short period of time, then generally being neutral with me (yellow when hovering over them, instead of green, but neutral may be default for Stalkers anyway.)

The trader tied together with the borked economy does seem a little too strong, too. Might try a no trader, no neutral/friendly NPC killing, only looting what i kill/find, the black road start, hardcore AI aim playthrough. I feel like the way it's meant to be played. Pistols only, autosaves only and dark/night mode for an actual sense of misery and hardcore survival. Taking 20min to kill a Chimera with a pistol would be fun.

Edited by: Whiskiz

Personally, I consider following others around and stealing their loot pretty lame.

You hurt my feeling right there, chief ;__;

Edited by: Oddboyz

LOL, nobody has confused me with being overly sensitive - It's not really a Chief trait either LOL.

I do prefer the mechanic in some games/mods where stealing has consequences. The CPU burden for such a system with SO many NPC's and objects would be daunting. All you can do is be honorable or not. Without risk, it isn't much fun for me.

If you make the economy any harder, you're going to have situations where an assassination pays as much as a day's work at McDonald's like Dead Air does.

I agree with the OP. The problem with the pacing as I see it is that it is designed around a first time player experience. The first time you play, the pacing and progression seems pretty balanced purely because you are a total noob. When you've a spent a good 50 hours playing, you learn all the tricks of the trade, and you end up steam-rolling the content.

And I'd say it's not because of the AI, it's primarily due to the financial snowball that allows you to access the best gear really early on, which ultimately destroys the longevity of an otherwise brilliant mod.

Imo Misery needs another game-mode to remedy the many possible exploits in the other modes, namely AI spawns and loot tables. Some things I'd personally like to see in a Veteran mode:

- Increased spawns (Many more enemy AI spawns - Also static AI dispositions- travelling out in the zone will be like bullet-hell as you compete for those juicy mutant parts)

- Enemies/Friendlies have a very low chance to drop good loot (most dropping next to nothing)

- Much harsher trading prices (Good weapons and armor now 3-4 times more expensive- Broken weapons sell for a pittance)

- Remove OP items from world loot

- Nimble locked behind some very punishing quests (prices also much much higher)

I think those simple changes alone would greatly expand the replay-ability/longevity of the mod and offer a grueling experience that many of us are drooling for. Maybe then it will it truly live up to it's namesake.

Edited by: Daniel_stark

The game engine will not handle more life on the maps. There is already a minimum (at default 300m switch_distance) of 4X as much active life loading the CPU. It is really probably more like 10-15x the life of the vanilla game.

You can edit the drop probabilities upon death yourself to whatever ratio floats your boat, the same with prices. Balancing is, by far, the hardest thing to get right across all play skill levels.

Hmm that damn old crusty engine is the bane of Misery's existence. Such a shame. Would it not be possible to cut 50% or more of the friendly AI to make room for additional enemy AI ?

I was thinking a new mode could also take place in a slightly different period, possibly very early in the zone's development where you are a rookie Stalker in direct competition with everyone else for artifacts and such, the only friendlies being a lone neutral trader. Maybe that would be a good way to free up some resources.

Active NPC's, those that are engaged in battle and presumably those hunting the actor, use more resources. You can easily piss off Duty and/or Freedom to have all the action you can stand. In Jupiter, fully equipped Duty squads will give you heck. You can play with the tables governing who likes/hates whom and make the balance much closer to we would just as soon kill you as speak to you ... The existing story lines might be compromised.

Playing with the trader files to adjust the changes with story progression is not my field of expertise. If someone wanted to thoughtfully revise them for slower scaling of available inventory (you would also need to adjust the loadouts for all types of NPC's to be lesser grade weapons) I would be happy to test the work and provide feedback. It's more than I would want to tackle on my own.

Making the enemy more difficult is more a matter of ensuring your weapons are barely good enough to kill them and your armor meager defense. That would make superior tactics and use of camouflage more critical.

Yeah, it was more a suggestion for another iteration of the mod. I have nowhere near enough knowledge to do this myself.

As far as loot tables are concerned, I thought it would only be a matter of adjusting/de-tuning the tables for all trash loot so that the best stuff you're likely to find is a pair of used underwear and maybe a few rounds of ammo. The weapons themselves would need to be either broken beyond repair or cost an absolute fortune to restore. When complimented with the nerf to loot drops, world loot and harsh trader prices, it should take a very long time for the player to attain the wealth to repair a single high-tier weapon.

Another way of avoiding de-tuning AI weapon load-outs would be to lock all high-tier weapon repair and upgrade until a certain quest stage has been met. Perhaps the mechanic needs you to pay for a shipment of parts needed to fix said weapons, And so that will be an additional money-sink. Ultimately it might cost you 300k to restore a single high-tier weapon including the mechanics fee. With the revised economy in mind, that should see the player bottom-feeding and scraping and scrounging for a very long time. As you said yourself, this is where the game is most challenging and exciting- your gear barely good enough for the job- All the while your struggle is compounded by the increase to enemy spawns, as there will be even stiffer competition for resources in the zone.

In the grand scheme of things not a lot will change, mostly balancing of loot, traders, removal of NPC's, more enemy spawns and one or two quest phases to lock high-tier weapon repair/upgrade. I'd be willing to volunteer to adjust trader prices for all items, only because everything else is beyond me.

You do know that all weapons are already heavily degraded when dropped and all can be fixed for virtually nothing but the labor of breaking down other weapons and applying the parts, right? It would never make sense for anyone to PAY to have more than the most minor repairs done when they lack parts. Making repairs more expensive would only make that even more the case. As it stands now,if you are desperate to fix up a better weapon and have the cash, you can get a mechanic to do it. Mechanic prices are directly linked to prices. The more expensive the item is new, the more it costs to repair it.

So, you have to eliminate the higher tier weapons from being on the NPC's in the earlier stages, so they can't be picked up to repair, and not available to purchase before later in the game. That would mean only killing elite/veteran squads would yield mid-tier weapons, and only Monolith higher tier weapons. They would become available for sale only after returning from Pripyat, and possibly after a mid-Priyat mission.

Edited by: jasper34

I've never used anything but the mechanic and repair kits to restore weapons because the salvage function only serves to exasperate the problem with pacing in this mod. It could be gone and I wouldn't know the difference.

Funny that I almost forgot it existed though. So yeah that would go right out the window in the mode I speak of. So no de-tuning weapons, the aim is to make it harder, not easier. Locking high-tier repair alone would fix that issue. Couldn't be simpler than that.

You can't fix mid/high tier weapons if they don't drop. There will not be a veteran mode, because the mod is for veterans. You would have to create a mod to tune things how you like. No mechanic could fix a weapon that was not yet in the game via progression.

Removing high tier weapons on any level is counter-productive- A: because enemies that have them aren't a problem and B: You would have to re-calibrate load-outs of both friendly and enemy AI. Locking repair of them behind a quest trigger ie: You have all tools and have paid for advanced parts shipment, would be a simple way to stop early snowballing without gimping the enemy AI.

There will not be a veteran mode, because the mod is for veterans.

That's the equivalent of saying there will be no Black road mode because Misery is already for veterans. Despite your own preference to being a big fish in a small pond, the mod has tonnes of room for improvement. I get the impression that you don't want any change and would rather advocate for stagnation, And that's fair enough, but don't destroy my and other players hopes that the mod will get better simply because you are personally content with it.

Locking repairs would not impact anything because you can fix them yourself with spare parts. Just because you don't want to use the salvage system doesn't mean everyone else won't. If you can make yourself not take advantage of the salvage system, you can make yourself not use mechanics for repairs. If you have not already self-imposed that restriction and experienced the desired result, why do you think having someone code it will? Simple is an assumption you make because you don't know what is involved in coding it.

Black road is no significant increase in challenge IMO. Eliminating most of the bounty from available stashes would extend its limited challenge some.

Edited by: jasper34