Well hello everyone!
I am here to do to lend you all my ear (ears?) and to hear what you all want to see in this mod for C&C 3. I have my own personal opinions, but what makes a good game is listening to the community and hearing what they want in said game. I have created a list to help you all choose what should and should not be put into Elysian Fields. If it is not on the list, then feel free to say so and speak up. For as we all know, humans have two ears and one mouth. Meaning that we should listen twice as much as we talk.
Unit Set 1 on the list is the UNSC Infantry Division.
I (personally) have been thinking that the Marine and the ODST should be grouped as one unit, like they were in Halo Wars (meaning that they would be upgradable from Marines to ODSTs). I have since thought that would be a poor choice and have rethought that is might be a better and much more improved idea to have the separated as two separate trainable units. The Marines would have Assult Rifles (and maybe one or two units with Battle Rifles in the squad). The ODST would have Shotguns.
The ODST would obviously still have to be unlocked through upgrades and research, but you could still train both types of foot troops even after the upgrades.
What do you all (the community) think of this idea?
Unit Set 2 on the agenda, the Spartan Special Operations unit.
This is something similar to that of the first group of units, but with a different spin to it. As they did in Halo Wars (that being training the Spartan to where it can only use the Spartan Laser at the final tech level), I was thinking we might do that as well. Though I have since had another idea that might be better. That idea being that each Spartan would be a reincarnation of Spartan we have seen from the Halo games. Such as Jun, Carter, Emile, Jorge, Cathrine (or Kat), Master Chief and so on. Each Spartan would be equipped with unique set (yes set as in the possibility of telling the spartan to switch weapons) of weapons. For example Jun would be equipped with a Sniper Rifle (and a possible upgrade to it) and s Standard Pistol Sidearm, Carter would be DMR and maybe a Assult Rifle, Jorge his custom modified Turret, Emile a Shotgun and maybe (emphasis on Maybe) a combat knife for stealth kills and Kat's would be dual welding two Standard issue UNSC Pistols.
What does the Master Chief get? EVERY WEAPON! Just kidding, though I am not sure at this point. That will most likely be up to the Community right now.
What do you all think of this idea of have Hero Spartans appear in the Mod? There would be a obvious limit on how many you can train (that being one at a time), but is that sound good or not?
Last but not least, Unit Set 3 variants of the Puma....err...I mean the Warthog.
I was again thinking that we (the development team) should have just one type of Warthog that could then be upgrade through research. This would end in the usage of the Rocket Warthog most likely. Then again, is that bad? Should we just follow Halo Wars example and have one Warthog that you can upgrade? Or should we allow the usage of Multiple type of Warthogs? Such as the Chain Gun, Gauss and then Rocket Warthog.
What do you all think?
Well people, that is all we have to ask of you at this time. Please do speak up and tell us what you as the community is looking for in this mod. Also....
Keep it clean! No Shotguns to the face, no team killing and most definitely NO Lag Attacks to gain the upper hand (however that would work...).
Flam1ng Dem0n Signing Off
In my opinion you should seperate the marines/odsts and warthogs variants into diffrent trainable units. The marines could be cheaper to make but weaker and vice versa for odsts. For the warthogs you could have for example chain gun variant combat infantry well, gauss = ground vehicles and rocket = air vehicles. I think this would be the most satisfing and true to the halo lore because you almost never see the UNSC employing the use of a single type of hog or troop during major battles.
Seconded.
ditto
Agreed.
1. Personally I wouldn't like Marines and ODST in one group. Make them two different units. Imo, when someone per say, wants to create a machinima video with your mod, it would make it that more interesting.
2. I agree with the other Spartans. Except for maybe Emile. Shotguns are short range and that would mean he would have to get up close and personal. Perhaps something to switch between short-to-long range? Chief could possibly get an improved version of the assault rifle? Speaking of that, Halo 1 and Halo 3 had different assault rifles, right? What if you gave the Marines the Halo 1 assault rifle and the chief the Halo 3 assault rifle. The second one is improved and better and we all know Spartans are better equipped for battle. As for his second weapon, I really can't say.
3. I believe if you allowed a variable between the warthogs, they could benefit according to the situation. For example, the chain gun is obviously beneficial against ground units. The rocket one is good for vehicles and the gauss.. well, maybe air units?
As a personal suggestion, maybe use the CNC3 vehicle entering system so that you could place a Marine/ODST/Spartan unit in the passenger seat of the Warthog. The Warthog would come out of the factory without a passenger and then you could place a unit of your choice in the passenger seat. That would be epic.
P.S I love you guys. I'm super excited about the mod! Keep up the good work!
P.S.S Make sure you include the Halo Theme Song(not the orchestral) for epic battles!
I would like to see the marines use Battle rifles instead! from halo 2. it makes the scenario look and sound better when in combat hearing that burst sound. Or intead let the Odst's use battle rifles and marines use assualt rifles. or just both mixed.
i dont really like all the ODST's using shotguns maybe like one or two in a squad but a entire squad of shotguns is kinda stupid :/
currently working on a Mod Side project, i made nod militants so they use Submachineguns, you know high rate of fire but short range, GDI rifleman have an assualt rifle that has to brust fire and cut down on their ROF but they make up for it with range. the immediate issue became that when garrisoned the GDI Riflemen were clearly superior to their nod counterparts, actually i am still working on the direct balance between those troops, but i also did 1 more, i added a Confessor Cabal that uses assault rifles that act like GDIs, and GDI Shotgun troopers to be good short range, so you see the ranged units dominate when garrisoned, and can even at times eliminate the garrison clearers before they get to their building. so i mean you can see my breakdown of different infantry armaments and their effects, even you can get a copy if you like (i may be stingy when it comes to releasing things but not to other modders) Madiba knows where he can find me.
also i may never have played halo much but i believe that 1 passenger that was not the gunner could use his own personal weapon, imo could help with your warthog dilema. my concern however is that at least in CnC3 different weapons have different strengths, that is why there are different units with different weapons, so players have the most options with their strengths, you know APC for killing infantry pitbull for everything else, this experience would lend me to saying that the warthogs should A either be separate units B allow the warthog passenger his own rifle, or C. another unit to fill the roles vacated by the warthog. A seems the easiest way out imo
food for thought
If you are going to have Spartan-IIs, atleast have those from the real original canon. John, Linda, Kelly, Fred, Kurt etc.
If you want Spartan IIIs, they cannot be super-soldier like, they were trained and created as expendable elite soldiers, but not even close to the same calibre of the Spartan IIs. And these should preferably have no production limit or specific names (Due to the sheer number of them). Halo Reach has taught the fans so much stupid nonsense...
As for the Warthogs, it is difficult to bring such a multi-purpose platform unit into the game. Either you could have a buildable version of each, which might not look the absolute best with 3 different versions of the same unit in the build-tab, however it is a better solution than having to upgrade each individual unit by itself (Too much micromanagement).
You do realize that the games are more canon then the books. Bungie actually issued a list of what is canon in numbered order. Here is the list of what is considered canon by Bungie standards.
Bungie.net
Here is another of basically the same list but on Halo Nation wikia.
Halo.wikia.com
As you can see, the games come first when looking at canon. This means that Carter, Cathrine, Jun, Emile and Jorge are canon characters. This also means that they will most likely be in this mod. I don't see why they should not be in the mod.
Also, they are Super Soldiers. They are Augmented and they also have the Mjolnir Power Armor. All of what makes a Spartan Super Soldier. You are probably thinking of the Halo Book called Halo: Ghosts of Onyx. Those are part of Beta Company. Meaning that Nobel Team is part of Alpha Company and they are are basically at the same level as the Spartan IIs. This means that they were NOT mass produced like Beta Company and they were given all the same weapons and gear as the Spartan IIs (unlike Beta Company).
One more thing, Jorge is a Spartan II. Not a Spartan III; meaning he is of the same generation as Master Chief.
I hope this cleared up some confusion (if there was any) on what is canon and what is not.
It now looks like your making Halo Wars all over again.
Your comment is not helpful. As I said in the news post, I am giving the community the option to help with deciding how the mod is produced. Does that even sound like Halo Wars? I think not.
Please be more constructive in your comment postings next time.
Thank you.
Allright then I'm going to share you how I did the following things with the Marines ODST and Warthogs,
in Evolutions I gave the Marines Assault and Pistols, ODST's are only available trough a upgrade that drop them from orbit (instead of just one drop pod that drops a squad of ODST's I have 5 Droppods dropping in that in the end makes a squad also the ODST's carries Battle rifle's.)
For the Warthog I have a smaller vehicle factory where all warthogs are available to build. You can only build the LAAG first but later with upgrades in the game you can unlock all of them.
My idea for your spartan is, if you are going to have multiply spartans in the field, give each of them there own visual (like in reach with noble team) but have a limit of spartans 3 to 5 are acceptable if you ask me.)
If you got more questions or if you want to know how I did it with evolutions just pm me and I'll give you some info or solutions.
marien and odsts as a specal abilty that drop in
and for a spartan wud be awesom if you can train theam and upgrade
thear weapons like in warhammer that you chose the layout per unit
like you give 1 spartan a sniper a nohter a shutgun
srry for bad englis
I would take things a step further than mere separation of units between Marines and ODSTs. Helljumpers are special forces, so it would make no sense for the player to use Marines early in the game and then switch production to ODSTs once he unlocks the prerequisite technologies. (which is what happens in nearly all RTS games, the player will stop producing the inferior unit if an all around better one becomes available) I also think that producing them at a barracks doesn't put enough emphasis on the fact that their job is to drop from orbit. My suggestion would be to not make them available at the barracks at all, but after a simple tech upgrade you can call them down as a special ability. Of course this ability would have a fast recharge rate so while they aren't going to be your main infantry force (the main body of your infantry being ODSTs would be ridiculous, which is what would happen) they will still make up a significant part of it. Personally I think they should be given battle rifles with maybe one shotgun in the squad.
The warthog variants should be separate units. The LAAG (chaingun) should be most effective against infantry while the rocket hog should be more effective against vehicles and aircraft. The rocket hog should be more expensive, and later in the game you could upgrade it to a gauss. The gauss should be all around better than the rocket hog but still not quite as effective against infantry as the LAAG, while coming at a much higher price. This ensures that the player still has some incentive to build the lAAG later in the game. The APC hog from Halo 3 would also be interesting to include.
^^ This...same thoughts.
Make ODSTs only aviable via a special ability. Also Warthogs should be aviable seperate.
LAAG good vs infantry
SAM good vs vehicels & air
Gaus good allrounder but expensive
and the transport one would also be very useful.
I think you could give the ODST the weapon they had in Halo 3 ODST :)
The M6S and M7S? Nooo, those weapons sucked.
They were awesome, and unique. I like the idea.
Ok well here's my feedback rant on this:
Marines =/= ODSTs. Though ODSTs should not be simply better versions of marines on that note. Marines should be used as your primary front line combat infantry with battle rifles and assault rifles.
ODSTs should be more like spec ops units, faster than marines, radar invisibility (but not cloaking), and some sort of demolitions weapon (like the C&C 3 Shadow team bombs). M6S seems like a good gun for their task, and if everyone disagrees with that, at least it shouldn't be a shotgun. It should have at least SOME range to it.
Spartans: I'm kind of torn here. On one hand I would like to be able to build armies of Spartans with different tasks (Like Anti Infantry Spartans, Anti Tank Spartans, Ect.), but on the other hand, the idea of using existing ones is pretty cool as well. I think if you choose to use existing Spartans, you're spot on with the load outs (except I don't think Master Chief should be included, just saying).
Warthogs: We need four Variants of them, not just upgrades. LAAG hogs for anti infantry/Moderate anti air, Guass Hogs for anti tank/moderate anti infantry, and Rocket hogs for Anti Air/Moderate anti tank. Then of course the troop hog for quick infantry transportation (which on large maps with open terrain could be very helpful).
Spartans should be like the GDI Commando, albeit available in larger number.
ODSTs are perfect with the M7S and maybe they're like the GDI Zone Trooper with AA capability and can lay down mines/C4s and the squad have a single sniper ODST.
The Marines (As with vanilla game) will be in different classes: The Riflemen, Rocket, Sniper and Grenadiers.
Troop hog is useless (Logically, it can't even bring an entire squad, unless there's no driver), think of Halo Wars' APC?
Rocket hog must not be one from Halo PC but from Reach (The MLRS).
The term 'What fun is there in making sense?' doesn't really work in the Halo lore~
Wait wait wait, why would ODST have shotguns? Give them Battle Rifles, far more realistic, since when do you see a company of shotgun wielding soldiers?
Just some of my own ideas.
With the Marines and ODSTs, have the Marines hold Assault Rifles and be able to switch over to grenades, and a Rocket Launcher with an upgrade purchased. The ODSTs can have SMGs and be able to switch to Shotguns or, say, a Sniper Rifle with the right upgrade. CnC 3 comes with multiple side abilities for units, so that's something to look into.
For Spartans, everyone else has that covered.
And for Warthogs, I believe having a separate Warthog building that trains Warthogs and a few upgrades for Marines would be best.
If you want some more details, ask.
Infantry
Rifleman Squad - UNSC Marines (with BR55 Battle Riffle or M7 Subfusil)
Missile Squad - UNSC Marines (with SSM M19 Rokect launcher)
Engineer - UNSC Marine Engineer
Grenadier Squad - UNSC Soldier (with Frag granade)
Sniper Team - UNSC Soldier (with SRS99C-S2 AM and DMR)
Zone Trooper - UNSC ODST (with MA5C Assault Riffle with 32 rounds)
Commando - UNSC Spartan II (with Laser Spartan or MA5B 60 rounds)
Spartans III(Halo 3) or Spartans IV(Halo 4) or Hellbringers(Halo Wars) ???
Vehicles
Surveyor - ???
Pitbull - RoketWarthog (Halo Reach, no Halo 1)
Predator Tank - M12G1 Warthog Gauss
APC - M12R Warthog or M831 Transport
Harvester - ???
MCV - Elephant (Halo 3) or Mammoth (Halo 4)
Rig - Mantis (Halo 4)
Mammoth Tank - Scorpion Tank
Juggernaut - Rhino (Halo Wars)
Surveyor - Mongoose.
Aircrafts
Orca Gunship - UNSC Hornet (Halo 3)
Firehawk - UNSC Shortsword (Halo Wars)
V-35 Ox Transport - UNSC Pelican (Halo 3)
Naval Vessels
GDI Aircraft Carrier - ???
GDI Battleship - ???
GDI Hovercraft - ???
GDI ----> UNSCDF
NOD ----> Rebels
Scrin --> Covenant
you should give the marines/ODSTs the ability to say switch between a machinegun to a shotgun or a battle rifle etc. like if they were in close range use the shotgun and in long range just switch to a battle rifle
I think mixing as many UNSC weapons as possible would be cool and more realistic with different weapons( and more Halo feeling as well)!
Imagine Marine squads with Battle rifles, Assault rifles, pistols and Rocket launchers!
Or ODST squads with SMGS, Snipers, Shotguns and DMR.
The weapons should be randomized, I think a similar approach should be done to all units of both factions, as many randomized weapons in each squad as possible.
First off before posting my ideas I wanna say, this mod is probably the last glimmer of hope for a halo rts in a sea of dead mods. DONT LET THIS DIE LIKE THE OTHERS PLEASE!!!
Anyways to answer your first question ODST's should be separate. As for what weapon they wield. PLEASE to god dont give them all shotguns, that was one of the biggest disappointments in halo wars for me (even though it was a small feature). Just a bunch of ODST's blasting elites from 200 ft away with a shotgun really didnt feel realistic to me. Instead it felt pretty dumb. I honestly think ODST's should be given their "specialty weapon", the M7s Caseless Submachine Gun. (the main weapon the rookie uses in Halo ODST) That weapon is cool and badass for ODST's to use, but if the silenced version isn't possible, then the regular submachine gun is fine.
I also think that Marine Squads, hell, all squads should spawn with varied weapons, ranging from battle rifles to smgs to shotguns.
As for the hero spartans you were talking about. The halo reach noble six spartan team is pretty cool. But there were far more spartans than just them. I think that their armor/weapons should be given to all spartans. Like spartan squads should have random unique equipment to show their role in the squad, like noble six has, a sniper role, marksman role, assault rifle role, shotgun role, etc.
If you want to create a hero character. Just do the chief man. John-117 is the only hero needed, because though noble six was cool and all, I don't think it's worth wasting time on creating their separate hero units. Instead all of the "normal" spartans that we recruit should look like the noble six team, with each one being completely unique to the last.
Thank for making this mod happen. And keep up the fantastic work. :)
DONT LET THIS DIE LIKE THE OTHERS PLEASE!!!
<<< We Ain't dead, just changing a lot of different things
as for your suggestions keep them coming guys, with what we are changing/doing gives us way more chance to include them