With the release of Mafia: Definitve Edition, I’ve noticed something that made me think. Apparently, our famed four funneled steamer resembling the RMS Aquitania from Mafia 2 made its way into this game and can be spotted from the lighthouse.
Fine and all, but what about it?
The thing I noticed in every Youtube video or Reddit post crediting its sighting as Titanic, was the noticeable lack of awareness about this mod from most people responding to it. Aside from a few individuals, the vast majority of people were simply discussing the historical accuracy of Titanic in Mafia rather than it possibly being a nod towards the Titanic Mod.
Meanwhile, djbozkosz, an important programmer for the mod and employee at Hangar 13, has confirmed that the ingame ship has nothing to do with the mod. Meaning that even within the doors of the company who made the remake of the very game this mod is being made for, all but one know nothing about its existence.
And that made me think. So far, I’ve always stuck to only releasing this mod once everything is done, because I want to release it with a bang. But what use is a bang if there’s barely anyone to hear it? As of now, practically no one outside of this community discusses the project. Say, if I were to remove all these pages in an instant, the whole project would vanish without a trace aside from the odd comment every once a year somewhere on a niche forum. 14 years of work would be gone just like that.
Now I’m not going to do that obviously. But it is something rather confronting I think. And as I get older, the risk increases that I could never finish the mod to the state I had always considered worthy of release. If that were to happen, it would gain the same effect as just removing it.
So, here’s the thing I’m considering; I want to know what you all think about an early release of what is ingame so far, and gradually updating it over ime. Kinda like a demo, but considered an official release with intent of adding more whenever that is available. This will allow people to finally see the mod themselves, even when it isn’t finished. It can possibly spark some discussion and enthusiasm for people outside of this community as well. For me, the weight on this project would be less since parts of it are already playable. And, I will finally have a good indication of how much actual interest there is. Meaning, as much as I like to work on this project, if the whole thing dies out at a certain point despite its release, I’d know if the things I’m doing are still worth doing.
Anyways, please let me know what you all think about this idea.
First sorry for the bad english not my main language.
Second I comprehend your concern and IMO you should release what you have done, if you have lost any faith on the success of the mod and lost pleasure in working on it, is not good to continue on uncertainty, will just make you miserable and affect your work.
Third sorry for this but to tell the truth, what outcome do you expected after so many years? Even when you started, (2006?) Mafia 1 was already 4 years old, imagine in 2020, a 18 years old game, being remade even, how many people do you think still play Mafia 1? IMO no matter what you released and its quality this mod has a high probability of being a low profile mod, why I think so?
Do you know Phobos mod for Doom 3? If you don't is norma, is IMO a very high quality mod/campaign for Doom 3, quality above and beyond that of the original main game but almost no one knows about it, is a niche mod for Doom 3 fans and the mod developers know it, idSoftware also doesn't seem to care about it, did they give up? Nope (not saying you are btw), they just released the second episode recently and are working on the third and final episode.
So again IMO release what you have, if popularity is something you really care about, because the fact is the more you wait the less probability you have of having a huge amount of players. But please don't be surprised if initially it doesn't explode, is a old game after all. IMO this mod will have to grow by word of mouth and that will happen if you impress people, no pressure...
Just my two cents, I really hope this reply don't make things worse because that is not my intention but sometimes people need a reality check to think things with a colder head.
Personally I will certainly play it when you release it full mod or not, cheers and good luck no matter you decide.
I think you couldn't have worded it any better than you did.
It seems that over time I've gotten blinded by the sheer size of this project that I unknowingly started to feel entitled to its success. But when I'd take a step back to view this project from a distance, it's nothing more than just a mod for a very old PC game.
The Phobos mod example is spot on. Because as you've guessed it, no, I'm completely unaware of this mod. So quality is absolutely no guarantee of visibility.
As for the mod's popularity, although I've always accepted that this would never be in the realms of Honor and Glory, it felt a bit disappointing that outside of this direct community pretty much no one would talk about it. Even when within Hangar 13 one of their employees has worked on this mod himself.
And perhaps that's my biggest weakness in all this, the desire for recognition. I've recently made a very simple video on my youtube channel which showcased various alarm systems of the former World Trade Center complex, and it has been viewed more times than all of my recent mod videos combined. And suddenly everyone mentions "Firecom 8500" in other 9/11 videos since I've released this video. And I love that. My video got people invested in the subject, and I see it made an impression.
When I look at the Titanic Mod, I'm quite literally stuck in time. I enjoy working on this mod, but I'll be turning 30 in a few years, and will have remained quite stall on my 3D skills. And I don't want to get into other projects as long as this is running. To halt my skills for something that goes so unnoticed is what conflicts me heavily inside.
If anything, I think this comment just held a mirror in front of me. And I really appreciate that.
MrRobville I totally agree with Argoon here.
Since the remake of the game is out and the majority of Mafia OG's player base will eventually switch to the remake version over time, I think it is better to release the mod as it is now, and get some feedback from players and help from modders on development side (it's your choice of course) unless you want to release as you finish your mod several years later to be lost in the moddb page in a couple of months after it is out.
These are my honest opinions on the subject, and of course I totally respect your decision on it. I've been following this mod for about 6 years and definitely going to play your mod regardless of your choice.
Keep up the good work!
Agreed. And a very good point regarding Mafia. I've watched quite a few reviews and discussions regarding the Definitive Edition, and I was staggered to see how few people have played the original. Even reviewers of huge gaming news websites never touched it. So how on earth would they know about the existence of any mods for it.
When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. I bought Mafia when I was 12 years old. And I imagine the age of the core audience for videogames today is probably around the same. So for a game that is 18 years old, that means that if someone was born on the release day of Mafia, he would be old enough to be reviewing the Definitive Edition as a journalist. It makes me sound as if I'm old.
But definitely, I imagine the Definitive Edition will be the new Mafia until it will inevitably be remastered another time in the far future.
I think you should limit the spread of the demos if you plan on releasing them when the project is far from done and only release demos pubblically if you're at least somewhat close to the finish line to build interest in it. you have something gorgeous here Mr Robville something that will have true lasting power among titanic ethnusiasts (and from what ive seen it would definetly be a must play for all titanic buffs) and mafia fans even after Titanic honor and glory or mafia 4 is released, i definetly cant force another man to work on something they've lost all passion for if that is the case but if you havent, Please reach 1.0.
What seems the most feasible option at this moment, is to release the mod in some kind of "episodic" format. Meaning that with each release, the story progresses further and more interiors get added accordingly.
An early release could be a very good indicator of how well this mod will get picked up by the Titanic buffs.
im absolutly sure it will be well liked no matter what, since you managed to convey movement so well with the day scene
Also ngl as an half life fan i have slight ptsd about episodic games
I have to agree with the Argoon and ubilλmbdλ, since the Mafia 1 Modding scene is nowhere as big as Half-Life 2, Skyrim or Mount and Blade modding scenes. So, it's unfortunately nowhere as easy to get recognition, as some great Mods from those scenes get. Thou, I wish you a lot of success with it, in the future, since you absolutely deserve to get much more recognition than you have. And like the notfreemanlosthisem said, you truly have a gorgeous mod, so I'm willing to wait for the full version as well.
Personally, I would wait, for a stable 1.0 version, but if you want to get a bit more recognition, I would release it, now. Thou, I'm afraid, that most people, would expect it, to be for the new Remake, since most of the people talk about it. Unfortunately, too many people have absolutely no idea, how long it takes, to make a mod like yours, so that's why I would wait, since that kind, will probably not appreciate it, like we will.
However, in the end, the decision is yours, and you have to decide, if it's better to release it now as a beta, later as a full release, or like you mentioned in the latest comment, as an episodic release, which seems to be the best choice.
MrRobville, as a very long time fan of your project and a modder myself I know exactly what you mean. Its the risk of being a modder, especially with very large projects. My biggest project took 5,5 years and I also thought about what would happen in such a case. I myself never thought about releasing a demo, because you give away a lot in advance. But, with 14 yours on the clock and still not sure when you will be done it is maybe wise to start releasing in episodes/parts. And, it would indeed be a great way to find out how much people will be playing it. And it's a great way to advertice your project.
So, all in all i would also suggest you release a demo/episode or part and go from there. (Would love to play something from this, as i have been wanting so for many, many years, but that is ofcourse beside the point.)
greetings,
Leon
I think that, if you publish the mod just as it is in this stege of development, the people will not only get a taste of what the gameplay, mapping and other features are, but also have the opportunity of completing or finish what's left to do in the future if you do not do so.
Mafia 1, however, has a very reduced community. The multiplayer is barely played, an as so it would be better to post and archive mods such as this for years to come, even if the mod is going to keep getting updates, is a step into the "inmortality" of the amazing work you made. I don't remember where, but i saw an image of the "work in progress" map of the Titanic on the mod, the rooms and details that are yet to be finished, and I felt that only a genius can deliver such a good quality, detail and perfection in one of the biggest proyects ever seen on the Mafia Scene.
The best option I see for now is, again, to publish a demo version and, if you want and can, keep updating it here, in Moddb.
Greetings,
Monte Cristo
Before anything, I hope that you're, mostly, modding for the fun of it. Considering you've been getting at it for 14 years, I would assume that's true.
As an extension to that: If you do what you want to do, and release the mod the way you want to release it; I think you'll find that it matters surprisingly little what the community wants.
If you believe you can give us a proper experience by releasing the mod earlier (and unfinished), and if you believe that _you_ would be happy with that, than that's probably the way to go.
There are definitely pros that come with releasing early, such as earlier exposure, feedback, extra motivation to work, etc. But also possible downsides, such as hard-hitting criticism and players might have an experience you did not intend them to have. It's going to be up to you to see which path you want to take. Good luck! :)
Hello friend, I think the best thing would be to launch a beta to see the real interest in the mod, even so, I would like you to continue working on it. Since all that work must be valued and highly valued by other modders. You have done a great job and it cannot be wiped off the face of the cloud without merit.
I wish to thank everyone for voicing their opinions regarding the prospect of an early release. I've taken them all into consideration, and my decision is as following:
I've decided to pursue the concept of an early release with individual addons that release overtime afterwards.
In my regard, I think it will ease off a lot of pressure on me when something has actually released. It may benefit the mod's visibility to the public, and most importantly: It will provide a lot of feedback on the project. Maybe everyone loves it. Maybe everyone hates it. Better to find out sooner than later I reckon.
And in everyone else's regard, you'll finally get to play this mod. Or at least some of it.
More details will follow later in a bigger announcement, for which I'll post another news article. For now, I'm going to look into what can be released at this stage and what's left to do in order to make it something coherent without overreaching it immediately. Early state or not, I do want to release it without looking bodged with literal gaping holes inside the ship of missing sections or glitched areas.
For the first time in many years, I should hopefully be able to come up with an estimated release date as well. Stay tuned.