SM'chapters Thread - Galaxy in Fire RELOADED mod for Dawn of War

I ask again the question about SM Chapter in the forum. Like that it will be easier to talk about it.

Yarael wrote: Great mod !! are you going to implement other models for Space Marines (DA, BA, SW ...).

Warboss-russ wrote: I don't think other Space Marine chapters can be implemented to be different enough from vanilla, and I don't want clone races.

Ungolyant wrote: I'm not sure he was talking about making new races, but do more or less like Chaos : you chose the SM race, and in the game you chose your chapter.

The fact is that for SM it would be different, because you would choose you chapter only at the begginig and it would be all (whereas with SMC you can chose for each squad).

For instance :
- BA could have a death company which would replace some veteran unit. Other chapters won't have the possibility to use the Baal Predator
- DA could have the Inner Cercle instead of the 2 dev squads : 1 Inner Cercle squad is a 5-10 terminators squad but with both range or melee weapon, and maybe some more bonus.
Or veterans with dresses (!).
- BT with sword breathern squad, champion instead of psyker
- Salamanders with flamers and melta bonus (damage, range, more weapon available ...)
- Raven Guard with assault vanguard veteran, or faster assault SM
- Ultramarines as the "normal"=codex chapter
- ...

It has existed on codex mod, for example.

Thank you

Ungo

Yes, when I talk about new models I'm not talking about new races, but about special units (breathern squad, death company, DA veterans, etc.) like you can see in Black Crusade mod. And I don't know if this is possible (for balance) but I'd like to see more equipment options for commanders: ability to choose the melee weapon, and terminator armor skin !!

Your mod is awesome
Yaraël

Ungolyant wrote: I ask again the question about SM Chapter in the forum. Like that it will be easier to talk about it.

I must think about that, plan each new unit and its role within the race, make the testing version and try it out... If it will work, I will add that in some of the next releases

Yarael wrote: And I don't know if this is possible (for balance) but I'd like to see more equipment options for commanders: ability to choose the melee weapon, and terminator armor skin !!

The melee weapon for main commander will always be tied to commander researches, but I plan to add terminator and megaarmored upgrades for second commanders. But I need the models first (again I'm not modeler myself and new units highly depend on other peoples work).

Great news !
And ... this one will be cool :p

I think the FoK team made really recently some terminators models if you want to see some.

Except that, do you want more ideas/suggestions about SM chapters special units ?

Thanks again, and good luck !

Yarael wrote: Great news !
And ... this one will be cool :p

I currently use a pretty good chaos terminator model and don't have any plans of adding units to CSM (except some daemons).

Ungolyant wrote:
I think the FoK team made really recently some terminators models if you want to see some.

Yes, but this models are not in the public release and I don't have an access to private versions.

Ungolyant wrote:
Except that, do you want more ideas/suggestions about SM chapters special units ?

You are welcome, I can't promise that I will make them this way, but fresh ideas are always welcome.

It's true, the current chaos terminator models are really good
Many of us play your mod, if we have other ideas, we will tell yo.

Thanks for your answers!

I think about that: choose a specific chapter replaces default Vanguard and Sternguard units.

- Dark Angels veterans remplaces Sternguard
- Sword Breathern remplaces Vanguard
- Death Company remplaces Vanguard
Etc...

This may be only skin option.

Hello there,

I have a more comprehensive vision of what you could change to implement SM chapters. First of all, we schould obey to these rules :
- the modification musn't break the balance of this mod (SM with chapters not more powerful than before)
- one chapter will be "codex", which mean that they will be similar to what SM are now (with just a few changes, such as jet pack)
- better have to start by few units changes : only 1-2 modification in T2, and 1-2 in T3 (or T4) >> less than 4 units modifications
- no units added : only units replaced, or wargear added
- no new buildings
- if a unit is improved, we must create them another weakness
- visual changes : to simplificate, choose a chapter will change some heroes name (such as Dante for the Master Chapter of Blood Angels), but not so much more in a first time. No effect on gameplay, of course.

I tell my suggestions taking into account that we will have to choose our chapter in T2, not before (so no changes in T1 units).
(as you said)

So now, the must important, what I offer to do change for each chapter.

Ultramarines (codex)
Units
that's the "default chapter" : every thing is similar to what exist now, except a few things :
- jet pack : only the Captain can have this as a wargear, from T2
- terminator armour : only Chapter Master (CM) can have this as a wargear, from T3 (when terminators are available)
- sternguard veteran : their bolt munitions ignore covert (as it exist with battle sisters). If needed, they can be more expensive.
- predator : don't have the Baal predator version
Visual
- CM's name : Marneus Calgar

Blood Angels
Units
T2 :
- vanguard veteran : become the Death Company, which cannot be controlled (always attack), have the same ameliorations than veterans (power sword, power fist ...) and they are also affected by the upgrades done in the Armoury (for ex : vanguard veteran storm shield), and the sergent is a chaplain. Furthermore, the squad move faster, do more damage. However, it is more expensive, cannot be joined by an apothecary or another leader and is unique.
T3
- venerable dreadnought : become a Death Company Dreadnought. No ranged weapons, move faster, ...
- honour guard : replaced by Sanquinus guard, which is the same squad in term of cost, attack values ... but have jet packs and less life.
Visual
- CM's name : Dante

Raven Guard
Units
T2
- Heroes : (which mean Captain, Chaplain, Archivist and CM) can have the jet pack as a wargear
T3
- vanguard veteran storm shield upgrade (in Armoury) : vanguard veteran don't receive a storm shield, so they are not more resistant, but they receive a jetpack.
Visual
/

Dark Angels
Units
T2
- sternguard veterans : don't have bolt that ignore covert, but they are much better in infighting
- vanguard veteran : replaced by a Command Squad of 5 members, which can be equiped as follow :
* 1 champion (shield or storm shield + power sword)
* 1 apothecary, that heals nearby units (not only this squad)
* 1 banner bearer, that give to the ally nearby bolters a damage bonus
* or special weapons (flamer, plasma rifle, melta, or combi weapon)
T3
- terminators squad : BOTH are replaced by an only one. Basically, this squad is the ranged terminator squad, but it can be equipped with lightning claw and shield/hammer as close terminator squad.
Visual
/

Imperial Fists
Units
T2
- Inspiring Aura Research (in Armory) : replace the general damage bonus for nearby units by a better damage bonus, but only for bolters and heavy bolters of nearby ally units
T3
- Heroes : (Captain, Chaplain, Archivist and CM) have access to the terminator armour, when the Orbital Relay is built
Visual
/

Iron Hands
Units
T2
- replace Chaplain by a Master of Forge, which has not the same bonuses, less health, but can repare vehicles and be equipped by a plasma pistol and a melta pistol
T3
- Dreadnought (normal one) : replaced by an Ironclad Dreadnought. This is the same dread, but his powerfist become more powerful against buildings, and less against infantry
Visual
/

White Scars
Units
T2
- Wargear bionic II (in Armory) : (and only to second one !) don't give more health, but allow SM to run faster
T3
- Reinforced Armour (in Armory) : same thing, but for vehicles
Visual

Space Wolf
Units
T2
- don't know
T3
- terminators : same thing than for Dark Angels

Black Templar
coming soon ...

[Edit : I understand that you can't change the name of a unit if it's the same. So, for visuals, do what you can ]

Edited by: Ungolyant

Ungolyant wrote:
I have a more comprehensive vision of what you could change to implement SM chapters. First of all, we schould obey to these rules :
- the modification musn't break the balance of this mod (SM with chapters not more powerful than before)
- one chapter will be "codex", which mean that they will be similar to what SM are now (with just a few changes, such as jet pack). Maybe some nerf for all non-codex chapters (like less morale for all units or smth, just like CSMs lose morale damage bonus if they select the mark).
- better have to start by few units changes : only 1-2 modification in T2, and 1-2 in T3 (or T4) >> less than 4 units modifications
- no units added : only units replaced, or wargear added
- no new buildings
- if a unit is improved, we must create them another weakness
- visual changes : to simplificate, choose a chapter will change some heroes name (such as Dante for the Master Chapter of Blood Angels), but not so much more in a first time. No effect on gameplay, of course.

Some thoughts of mine:
- It may make SMs more powerful, it is a t3 research (and not a free one), especially lower tier units.
- "Codex" chapter (= Ultramarines, i think) is the SM army without any researches.
- I think that 1 or 2 squad changes will be enough.
- New units can be added, but they must be something special (not duplicate exciting units battle roles, like bikes for White Scars).
- SM already have 11 buildings and I don't use advanced building menu in GiFR, so it is true.
- As I mentioned in (1) it may just improve it. The goal is to keep all chapters balanced and not have very big advantage over regular SM (Ultramarines shouldn't suck).
- I can't change the units name, only create a unit copy with a different name. And it will lead to some problems with assasination win condition. I was thinking about some visual decoration on chapter master, like different helmets and shoulder pads for Chapter Master.

Ungolyant wrote:
- veteran (not sternguard) : become the Death Company, which cannot be controllet (always attack), have the same ameliorations than veterans (power sword, power fist ...) and they are also affected by the upgrades done in the Armoury (for ex : shield), and the sergent is a chaplain. Furthermore, the squad move faster, do more damage. However, it is more expensive, cannot be joined by an apothecary or another leader and is unique.

I think I can just make them more durable, fearless, not joinable and leaded by chaplain (he will give them like 50% bonus to damage). No cost change, no melta-bombs, cannot capture points, build any count you want (if I change a non-limit unit to a limited one, it won't be good).

Ungolyant wrote:
- honour guard : replaced by Sanquinus guard, which is the same squad in term of cost, attack values ... but have jet packs and less life.

Like the idea.