3 words. I LOVE IT.
I seem to be one of the outcasts on this website criticized for thinking that the source engine is an overrated spawn of rotting feces, and for liking the Unreal engine beyond anything else. Every mention of "engine biasm" gets negative replies telling me that I'm stupid, there is no biasm, source r0x, and such other moronic comments from moronic people. The thing people don't understand is the engine mechanics. Source was based off the principles of the Unreal 2.5 engine, but they made physics their main game-play feature. You'd think that it is cool if the physics weren't garbage and as horridly unrealistic as physics can get. Nothing against source-mods or any others, it's just that I abhor valve, steam, and the source engine. I always look at source-games and imagine what they could have done on different engines, instead of the limited lag-fest they chose instead. Don't even get my started on the Crytek engine.
As many can tell I'm the whore of modding. I loves em. Regardless of engine I will try each mod and do it justice before stopping and saying yay, or nay. I don't base my impressions off graphics, although style is a big part. I'm not genre bias, for I play them all. I seem to be one of the few looking forward to RAGE but also one of the few disappointed that ID Tech 5 will lose much of the modding compatibility that ID Tech 3 and ID Tech 4 were known for. What bothers me most with nowadays gamers is they base their expectations from 1 game or 1 genre. It's like when you get those "Too much like CS" comments that are nothing but BS said by someone who has little brain capacity to actually understand a game they are playing.
"Why do I/you love this UT 3 engine?" some may ask. Hard to say. I've been an Unreal and Quake fan since they became multiplayer, and since I bought such titles as quake 2, quake 3, and UNREAL GOTY. I've always loved how the server side mos can completely change the gameplay, and you don't even have to go onto the internet to download them. For Unreal in particular I like how every map can be made into basically a full mod, with hordes of new vehicles, player models, weapons, and various other things. I love how it can go further then just an FPS in it's racing modes, RPG modes, space battles, bunny tracks (Obstacle courses <3), and even as far as a Command and Conquer styled map, and with a weaker version of something that people would call a "Garrys mod ripoff" nowadays even though it came first.
One of the best things about Unreal in particular, is the community. The community is dedicated, and the hackers are limited. You'll find mostly the same players in the same servers, and their isn't much arguing, people calling hacks, and 3 word slurs questioning everyone's sexuality. There is no mic spam, 5-year-old's who won't stfu, or any problem when someone is being a douche and needs to be kicked.
Another great this is mutators. Instead of just server side mods that cause nothing more then extra admin features UT offers mutators to drastically change the game-play without having any effect on the servers ability to run the game. The voting system allows game-modes, game mutators, and maps to be voted for at near ANY time during the game with the simple pushing of a default key.
People who are still avid UT2K4 fans will still hold that special place in their hearts for mods like Killing Floor, Alien Swarm, Frag ops, Tactical ops (even though the original is still the best, but 3 is on the way), and even the mod version of Red Orchestra and Mount and Blade. Unreal Tournament GOTY holds thousands of players 24/7 the same as quake 3 online, at all times. Unreal 3 still has a large player based and UT2K4 also holds thousands of players on thousands of servers. UT3 hopefully begins to develop a larger player base when more mutators, and more mods start to release to really improve the re-playability of the average death-match.
For all you Unreal fans out there! I call out to you! Come play sometime then eh?
~AlCool
1 word. SO DO I.
Source is the best because of its simplicity, sure the physics are kinda sloppy, but with careful reprogramming in a mod, they can be made near to satisfactory! :D
Unreal is just beautiful, as it is used on nearly ALL games, but it is just not pushed to its full potential, and the reason there are no hackers and 5yr old n00bs is because the game itself is horrible, but the engine is nice, and because no super mods are out yet, it makes a limited number of plays as opposed to some others.
Still, i have to disagree, the CryEngine is the win, its just beautiful, and its only reason for lacking is because everyone is lazy and wont buy better computers haha!
I love UT gameplay! Twitch shooters were all the rage back in UT GOTY and Quake 3 days, and into UT2K3 as well. The reason there is no hackers and 5 year old idiots is because the community is solid. There is no steam with hordes of groups its all forum and clan based, with each server building it's own community. Sure you can add friends but you hardly will ever do that while playing it. It isn't about who your playing with, it's about what your playing. <3 UT!
I don't like crytek because the modding capabilities are INCREDIBLY limited. Everything that you make on Crysis will LOOK like crysis, theres no getting away from it. The multiplayer supports NO AI, ruining half the mod ideas. I have a good enough computer and both Crysis (waste of my money for the garbage single player and garbage multiplayer :\) and Crysis warhead (gift ffs), as well as Farcry 2 (I liked the mutliplayer).
But, yeah, don't get me started with Crysis...
(Also BTW that was 3 words not 1 ;D)
Haha i know man it was a joke :P, in protest of my love for UT engine!
But yeah, them points are true about Crytek, they AI and stuff can be done, but like i said, the engine is TOO advanced for the level of computers and networking available in the world, the game is just too big, and im sure when they release the new tools, today if i am correct, hopefully more will be created! :)
The engine is poorly optimized more then anything. I run Farcry 2 better then Crysis on higher graphics. It wasn't really an engine made with modding in mind.
True True, but the Far Cry engine is nothing compared to crytek, im sure they will update, the new Warhead engine was optimised allot better, but hopefully they will see their mistakes and fix it.
Crytek 3 engine is being demoed at an convention very soon and will probably be out before the end of his year. They aren't doing any more crysis or farcry 2 updates that I'm aware of.
too true my friend. Have you tried the night's edge mod for UT GOTY? no? well you should. The way the gameplay is changed (I won't say "improved" because they're two different things) is just... heavenly. really, try it. It's here on moddb.
I've had well into 100 mods since UT GOTY. My most memorable are from UT2K4, but soon to be UT3.
Most hilarious thing from UT GOTY IMO is the vehicles. The space ships and flying rockets. Genius.
vehicles?? really? didn't know that one...
They are weapons you use that turn you into a vehicle since UT had none XD (a few mods have them like The Chosen though). Your HUD would become all awesome and you could shoot lasers and stuff, but your hitbox was only the middle of the vehicle usually.
Wasnt Source Based on the GoldSrc engine?
Goldsource was based on Quake2, but was built off stock quake 3. Source was based of UT2.0, and then UT2.5, but there concepts revolved around physics. They kept most of their goldsource animations which really bothers me (AKA THE ZOMBIE FFS).
no the goldsource engine was based on the q1 engine, hl2 zombies use new animations (compare then, there completely different, anyway i love the ut3 engine too, simply because i can have as many dinosaurs and bots + players as i want with no frame drops, + it has some really interesting mods.
GoldSource wasn't based off ID tech 1's 2D graphic based in 3D environments.
The zombie animations are BARELY different, don't worry I've compared them.
UT3 has the functionality for these mutators that no other engine can handle. I fricken love it. FRICKEN LOVE IT! Dinosaurs + Slow Motion Deaths, + Titan/Super Titan + a few bots = godly.
Quake 1 engine was the first in FPS genre to include 6DOF it wasn't "2D engine"FYI (like Doom,Build etc).
I think you missed the point. Have you played wolfenstein or duke nukem? (originals). I was making fun of the 2d stuff they immensely used in them.
Think about things like the toilets that always face you, as well as dead bodies, and your own character.
I think the reason why you get into arguments.. and posted this thing in the first place is because you just don't actually know what you're talking about.
To set the record straight, which i can't believe people still haven't clued in:
goldsrc is a hybrid of glquake and glquakeworld with the quake2 qgl wrapper.
The QGL wrapper is.. a wrapper that carmack made around opengl.
Source started as a branch from gold HL1. Valve didn't have a name for the engine so internally the VSS tree was just known as 'goldsrc' and 'src'. Where goldsrc was retail hl1 + all updates, and src was new experimental stuff which turned into the 'source engine' when they decided 'lets give it a name'.
Internally it is actually significantly different from goldsrc however, ie: it's roughly 95% C++ now, and roughly the same amount a complete re-write, while with goldsrc the engine itself is still 100% C and still very similar to Quake1, with only the server/client dlls in C++.
Now with that history lesson aside..
Unreal definitely DOES have it's good points. It has a much more developed toolchain, and it's technically more mod friendly, and uscript is very extensible.
There are specific reasons for it:
The unreal engine is primarily developed for licencing to OTHER people to make games, so they put a lot of work into random new features to make people want to buy the engine, as Epic is unable to actually make a good game.
Valve on the other hand only adds new features to Source when the game they are developing happens to need said new features, because they are focused on actually making good games more than licensing the technology out.
Epic makes fine games. There is a large amount of people who like quake and Unreal style gameplay, being twitch shooters and such. Epic is selling an engine, but even then they put time into a few games to release it on. Not liking their games is your opinion.
Source has a few good games on it but none of them were originally made by valve, and probably none of them ever will be.
Thx for the history lesson. If I need the specifics for such a small matter I'll ask you.
The Unreal engine rules.
Your deep words have truly moved me.
hmmm, should i buy unreal 3? i've been asking myself that question for the past week.
Yes.
Yes and no. For Xbox 360 No. You will be screwed over by Microsoft due to Epic wanted free content, and Microsoft saying no. Eather PS3 or PC. I'd choose PC for the fact that it has the powerful Unreal Editor. And almost every mod for the PC version made its way onto the PS3 version. So PS3 or PC, your choice. Eather way your set.
Xbox is an entirely different ordeal because they basically ruined the game to release it on that god forsaken system.
Xbox does not have the function to add free content, it wasn't a mater or microsoft saying now, it was a matter of possibility. The unreal editor for the PC has separate tools when making mods and maps for PS3.
Only the best go PC ;D and Senor bought it awhile ago FYI :P (PC ;D)
*sigh* another post where you don't know what you're talking about, Sorry.
Obviously it supports free content. If you can sell content, you can also 'sell' it for '0 points'. The fact that you would even say that it is unable to give away free content is absolutely astonishing.
There are actually plenty of addons that are free.
It depends on the type of addon. Things that add VALUE to the game, they don't want to give away because it costs MONEY to host it and provide it for end users to get. I will admit however that they are a little too stingy in some areas, but that's how life works.
And if it was your attempt at sarcasm.. it failed.
By free content I WAS talking about user made. There is no moddability or user content that can be added for UT3, so what you buy is what you get, and when it updates with new maps you often have to pay for them.
The PS3 can get usermade mods and maps, but certain features like custom textures and such were unsupported. Although epic has announced they are going to increase the moddability available for the PS3.
Read the fine print?
Then the correct statement is 'it doesn't support user made content'. In reality it actually -can- do it, but it does fall back to them not -wanting- to do it.
Just going to throw this out there. I like both, they both have ups and downs.
You said in your post that the Source server side mods do not change gameplay, just add new admin features. I would have to disagree. Gun Game? Any of the umteenmillion RPG mods? Such and such.
The nice thing about Source, and Valve, is the documentation. UT got nothing on it. From everything to do with mapping, to straight up coding, Source has it beat for documentation.
The other nice thing is you have a bit more freedom come moding with Source. At least from my experience.
Unreal 3 is newer and more powerful but it feels lacking. There just feels like there is so much more you could and should be able to do but just cant either for lack of documentation and understanding, or just limitations of Unreal Script and mods.
So much more to say, but I will go back to what I originally said. I like them both, they both have ups and downs. I should probably read this over and proof it but I have class so ttyl.
Unreal 3 of course won't have as much documentation, it hasn't been out as long. Its a far more flexible engine by itself without actually having to obtain the full licensed engine. I didn't say that server side mods didn't change gameplay for source, but I stated that mutators were a built in gameplay changing function that did not down server performance at the cost of it.
As for knowing the engine a LOT can roll over from UE2.5 to UE3, but there are hordes of new functions there for you. The engine doesn't make it overly difficult to drastically change everything. When people play your games they don't instantly look and say "That's the Unreal 3 engine right there". I have to disagree from more freedom on source. Un-licensed source limits you to complete hell. Try even comparing a retail game to any mod that's been out for years. In quarter the time a team could have done 10 X more with the licensed engine. It's like seeing that same zombie animation or same body folder crowbar animation because of the hassle it is to get rid of. The physics bother me the most about source. I also don't like when people say UE3 has bad physics. They obviously haven't used the editor. Although by default the weight is based on size, you can set up an environment filled with physics objects if you so please and tweak the weights accordingly. It's mainly that base Unreal gameplay doesn't need these physics, and neither do most source games. I find having many useless objects everywhere to look pretty but only actually having players get stuck in them should not happen in an engine. If the physics are uselessly used then why have them at all?
Cool, thank you for your thoughts.
Yes, physics i UT3 are actually not bad, they beat Source.
The only thing I really disagree with is the documentation. I do not believe it is due to the age of UT3. Every time Valve releases something, such as the L4D SDK, they release full documentation, tutorials, and everything of the such. THAT I believe is the big difference.
Honestly though, I need more experience with both before I can really say anything with some weight. Right now I am just talking a whole lot of BS :P
Also valve never betas ANY of their games and has a massive team working on a simpler engine with simpler concepts. TF2 for example, they waste their time making silly trailers instead of actually getting more content out there faster. UT3 has evolved over such a long time and the basic premise has kept faithful to even the UT1 engine. People are learning multiple ways to achieve something they may have at first never thought possible on UT3.
THat's why UT3's gaming and modding community barely has a pulse?:P
I'm wondering if you have even looked at the modding community or gaming community. The mods that are releasing as we speak are of far higher quality then any to date. These are industry professionals making these mods.
Source games get waaay more content then every Unreal Engine game, even if they ''waste time'' for trailers...
Haha, have you actually got any unreal games? Is 2 GB of MOD content not enough?
Unreal beta mods usually start around 300MB, and on V1 release hit 600+, and by the end hit multiple GB like many source mods do. The content is no different, it only depends on the team making them.
Source Biasm at its best.
Source bias? You're talking mods, he was talking content by valve. and it's true, valve has given more back than epic ever has with any of their games. Of course, Epic can't actually make good games. Only engines.
Thanks for the source fanboyism.
You do have unreal games don't you? Or any game made by Epic?
Of course I do. and I can objectively say that Jazz the Jackrabbit was the last really good epic game.
The Unreal engine is great though, and I'm not a source 'fanboy'. Grow up.
Rofl.
Oh sorry, its hard to be a fanboy when you work for them.
Jazz was probably the last game they made that had nothing to do with an engine, and sadly the sequel was canceled, but I'm sure you know that. RIP
I personally, and many others, love both Unreal 1,2 and the story modes features in the Unreal Tournament games, especially 2K3 and 2k4 for me. Championships not so much. I wouldn't be surprised if you disliked Quake 3 and many adaptions to the twitch gamestyle, because that is mostly what UT has to offer. I like UT3 as a game, although I was sad to hear they didn't include both assault and onslaught gametypes, because the WAR maps just don't feel the same.
You really needn't spread your hate of UT3 here, because you'll get no love.
I don't anymore actually.
And yes, it was the last really good game that they made that had nothing to do with work on an engine to license it out.
Unreal was initially started for DNF. But that was going nowhere so they made Unreal. Unreal itself was great - especially when it came out, Coloured lighting in software mode was absolutely EPIC (pardon the pun) even if it was stippled pretty badly., the game itself was still as mindless as doom, just.. with translator messages. Unreal 2 on the other hand is absolutely horrible story wise, i actually started playing it again a week ago and then wanted to gouge out my eyes from the absolute pain.
I loved Quake3, and I loved the fact that the AI was actually FUN in the first UT vs Quake3's 'aimbot style' AI. But UT itself has also gotten bland.. I don't 'hate' any of them. But face it.. actual game wise epic has not been good at without hiring out to other companies, which is almost identical to the way valve works by 'absorbing' talent, just in reverse..
Engine wise? Unreal is a lot more solid, more of a pain in the *** to work with on the code side, but artists have it easy. You can make a big pile of **** in unreal and it will look good.
I love unreal for its rendering engine. People complain about watching things render when you load in, but it takes all of 5 seconds to load in, and for it to render. The optimization is great. D3D at its best.
UT (the first) had some of the best AI of that time. They often played like actual players. Standing on corners and rapidly peaking out and shooting, and using the acrobatics available in UT to their advantage. It was not until higher difficulties that they had aimbot mania. quake 3 bots really bothered me in comparison.
Unreal definitely was ahead of its time upon release graphics wise. I loved how on my UT gold it says that it supports the new extreme graphics card, the ATI RAGE 32mb, which my 98 happened to have.
I find epic made a good base game considering they were selling it for the engine. Modding became what UT was for, and up arose these great contests allowing dedicated mod teams to obtain the engine to license a full game. For both UT gold and UT2K4, mods both TC and server side, were what it was all about. From bunny tracks, to races, to C&C, that was what a large majority played.
Even now though I play core UT3 with mods like slo mo, 128 players, raptops (dinos), and more. Mutators are one massive advantage UT has other most other games of our time. Simplified server side.
I agree that a complete pile can still look good in UT, but its the gameplay that will matter upon release.