Useful gameplay improvements Thread - Tiberium Essence Fans

Hello, as a long term player of Tiberium Essence 1.6, I thought I should give some good ideas to fix annoying and tiresome problems I have encountered.

1) Auto-repair

Once the game progresses enough, one will encounter lots of enemy Aircraft attacking base defenses continuously and it becomes really annoying repairing every single one of them non-stop. What would be awesome if a repair function would still stay even AFTER the building has reached full health in case it gets damaged again until stopped manually.

2) Attack prioritization

Let's say there is a big group of Anti-infantry Infantry like Militant Squads coming my way with some additional Tarantula Drones. Wolverines start taking care of them but unfortunately they have no preference in which one to attack. They kill most of them until they are themselves killed by drones because the Wolverine was attacking a militant squad instead of a Drone. It would be really useful to instruct a single unit (or a type of unit) to prioritize who to attack first. Let's say in the situation I described above, I should be able to tell my wolverines to pick off tarantula drones or rocket infantry over militant squads which will make the wolverines' chances of surviving way higher.

3) Railgun units

Railgun upgraded units like Mammoth Tanks and Titans cannot kill any moving infantry unless force-fired (which sometimes doesn't even help at all).

An army of Mammoth Tanks can be killed by an army of Drones because of this. Is this an intended feature or just a bug?

4) Another annoying situation I have encountered against playing Nod is that sometimes they spam Harpies and Banshees to a disturbingly high amount (which is fine by itself) but what makes it problematic is that there is almost no way to kill them. Because I cannot tell a group of Firehawks to attack them one by one but they rather concentrate on one of them and thus wasting most of their missiles and killing one or two aircraft while being completely perished themselves.

I think it would be really useful to instruct a group of units to attack another group by NOT attacking the same unit, for example:

There are 10 aircraft coming my way, I command a group of Firehawks to retaliate where EACH firehawk chooses to attack a different aircraft thus making sure all of their missiles is actually doing damage.

5) Auto-opening gates.

For those familiar with Age of Empires 2, they would know that the gates can be set to be Closed at all times and be opened to allies and your own units.

I think the same feature would be a good addition here.

6) Disabling Super Weapons

No comment here.

It would save tons of time instead of specifically disabling them for each map one chooses to play.

7) Firehawk Groundpounder bombs

What was the point in changing Firehawk Ground attack in favor of something absolutely useless?

Now there is no point in using it since it takes so long to actually fire it while originally, it would have taken a second to unload all bombs

8) Removing Units:

I think the purpose of a mod like this is to incorporate MORE features NOT take away from the base game.

What was the reason for removing units like Pitbull? And making it Predator tanks accessible only Tacitus Archive?

I think the only 2 competent mods for this game is TE and Kane's Wrath Reloaded.

Any way Tiberium Essence can incorporate the actual units from the Kane's Wrath Expansion for more varied arsenal?

9) Zone troopers

Towards the end game they become almost useless because of high availability of aircraft.

I think they should be able to attack aircraft. This wouldn't make them overpowered since their main weakness still remains as their inability to counter infantry efficiently

10) Juggernauts

Why have their range been cut down?

Another thing is that their bombard spotted target feature stops after a while.

It is frustrating to set them to bombard again every time they stop, especially when you have a group of Juggernauts.

Also, when choosing a "Bombard spotted target" feature it should show the currently bombed targets by other juggernauts if one wants to make a certain area inaccessible.

I would really appreciate some feedback on whether or not these are practical.

Thanks a lot

Edited by: heyjudek

Hello, a long term player, since TE 1.2 :-O

1.) Auto-repair:

I were thinking that instead of time and time again clicking and clicking on repair(or hotbutton), it would simply start repairing all structures at once. Together with your good idea, you would either need to set everything on auto-repair just once, or each structure setting auto-repair on and off again on each structure just once.

Since computer AI player can do all things in one second in most effective way. But yap, you would need to watch your credits or prefer engineer for repairing heavily damaged more expensive structures to save your credits. Very practical and good idea. I approve.

2.) Attack prioritization:

Interesting, but mostly depends on your micro skills.But creating new options setting or new hotbutton setting for that seems impossible to me. Especially with that old game limited engine, no longer supported by EA, or being patched,etc. Last time I saw something like that was the preferred last target via right click in Sun Age game(not Tiberian Sun) One thing is aggressive, hold and stay ground stances. Or preffering the vehicles over infantry. But this sounds too much to ask for.

3.)Railgun units:

It requires six Tarantula drones to destroy single Mammoth (though it requires only one Drone to destroy a Titan, which I have been told is balanced)

This has been disscussed, escort your armor with other units.(Prefferably with Wolwerines, Jetpack troopers, and few Falcons for stealth detection) Just because Tarantula drones are capable to behave like very dangerous buffed up damage of burrowed Banelings is not a reason to panic. Old Fanatic squad were even more unstoppable.

4.) Firehawks:

Again depends on micro skills, the anti-air splash backlash missiles of Firehawks when just generally sending them to attack resulting in overkill and wasting all missiles on nearest target is known to me but thats how it is.

5.) Automatic Gates:

That would be great, wouldnt it be for limited game engine, Carnius were already trying this. The Worldbuilder editor is a slightly modified version of Generals and BMFE (with its gates) after all, with evidence for periodic and automatic scripts for opening and closing the gates. Which are obsolete and non-working though.

It is a pity that: you cannot select more structures at once, and assign them to a subgroup. You can assign a single structure to a subgroup, but once you "deploy" (open or close) your gate ( this applies to Phantom, Orca rig as well), your assigned and selected subgroup is lost.

6.) No SW mod

You can do that manually in Worldbuilder, all maps, including campaign missions, drawn via os big editor. Or you can specificaly use a mod from Bibber mod gallery collection (creator of Worldbuilder, OS BIG Editor, etc.) Bibber.eu --- C&C3 No Superweapons Mod

Otherwise ingame, use Nod support power for EMP and all other EMP capabilites to temporarily disable anything you want (prefferably SW or Epic units xD)

7.) Firehawk grounpounder bombs has EMP now Disabling anti-air defenses, SW, Epic units. You could be interested in my and FortressMaximus disscusion on his "gameplay balanche" thread. Since he has the same opinion as you.

8.) Too similiar to Attack Bike. GDI has Wolwerine and MLRS with Jetpack trooper now. Moved to mercenary mutants as Looted pitbull (I nickname his Scavenger xD)

Does not correspond with GDI doctrines. GDI has Titans instead of Predators. Cannot have both.

Kanes Wrath is almost a heresy. Carnius expressly said he does not like and will not do Scrin Mechapede.etc., etc., we have Montauk instead of not Nod doctrine Redeemer.

TE arsenal is great and large.

9.) Zone troopers:

Auto-healing, jumppacks, stealth detection, best counter vs Stealth tanks, Cobras, best non-epic anti-vehicle infantry in game. Escort them with Jetpacks and with Zone Commando if you wish. Otherwise you can sometime have Defender squads.

10.) Juggernauts:

Yeah, i agree. Juggernauts and Snipers could use some buff and changes. Increase the area for spotting. Bigger, better and larger splash damage of bombarding, ,improving the Advanced Fire Control upgrade which actually decreases damage of influenced units as observed by more and more people. Just please, no KW Behemoth.

Juggernaut is overpriced and sucks vs Cobra, as is slow, clumsy, slow rotating, slow moving, slowly deploying ro fire. Certainly could use much greater range. Improving accuracy and shot speed would be nice.

You're welcome.

1) Auto-repair,

Yes, your idea sounds better, there should be a way to set all structures or individual ones to repair.

Here's a crazier idea, how about setting some building to be rebuilt if they get destroyed automatically? Would be great for base defenses.

2) Attack-prioritization

Well, I'm not really an experienced modder but I thought it would be a good suggestion if units would be set to attack what presents them the biggest threat.

So for example, Wolverine would pick missile squads over rifle squads when they are all in range to survive

3) Railguns, I don't think there is a problem with tarantula drones' power. But the point is that the Railgun Units are entirely helpless against drones or any infantry Even with the original railguns mammoths can be picked off by anti-armor infantry but Mammoths did stand some chance. It just wasn't the most optimal way. Nevertheless, even though Carnius doesn't bring the original railguns I hope he makes them at least still be able to target infantry at all with railguns. OR... maybe also get Mammoth tanks a machine gun like with predator tanks?

Mammoth tanks are already designed to be versatile and tough. They have extremely good armor, they can attack air units I think a machine gun (of course not comparable to wolverine) would be a nice idea. It would still not be the best thing to use against infantry but it makes sure that a small load of infantry is not gonna kill a big group of Mammoth tanks.

Mammoth tanks was literally the only unit in GDI arsenal that had decent armor. If I try to add some wolverines next to mammoth tanks, they would get slaughtered every time Avatars pay a visit Mammoth tanks while not being an infantry counter were still able to kill them in numbers

4) Yes. but the situation I described was just an example. My point was that if it is possible to select a group of 10 units and order them to attack another group of units while each enemy unit is only attacked by one of my units?

5) I've heard that there are some coding difficulties with that. I was thinking of a script that if a friendly or own unit is detected within a hypothetical square in front of the gate it should open. Would this work?

6) How does this mod work? Are we not only capable of launching a single mod? Does it not mean I can't use Tiberium Essence if I use the NO SW mod?

7) Who cares about EMP? In the old days, I could just bomb a structure with Firehawks and now they are gonna fly around the structure getting slaughtered. And it is a waste of effort to bomb AA defenses with Firehawks anyway.

8) Fair enough I was just thinking it would be great to have both Marv and Mammoth Walker (not at the same time) and some other units together. Even if they are overkill it is still just a choice and it costs money to build them anyway.

On an unrelated note, does Tiberium Essence have any caps for regular units?

9) Maybe not directly with railguns but I still think Zone Trooper should have some way of countering Air. Because towards the late game, GDI armor takes precedence for destroying enemy armor instead of zone trooper since there would be too many Harpies. Just some food for thought

10) My main Point with Juggernauts was inspired by the following situation:

I was receiving too frequent attacks from a certain direction with Avatars and Cyborg Commandos. I decided to "carpet bombard" a certain area with Juggernauts. But every time they stop eventually, without my sniper not moving at all.

And in order to see if the area I'm choosing is already bombarded or not, it would be cool to highlight the areas being bombarded when I'm "selecting the target"

Thanks again

Edited by: heyjudek

Pay visit to Avatar with your own Missile troops. xD Losing 3 or almost 4 Wolwerines is equal to losing single Mammoth.

2 Titans are enough for Avatar. Mammoth barely survives the firepower and attack speed of Avatar. Now factor its range and upgrades into it, no matter how much is Avatar inferior in health and armor. same with Quadpod. You must already know that Avatar(without Napalm launcher) and Quadpod, being as walkers vulnerable to C4 and with no AA vulnerable to air, sucks vs infantry and close combat as Tarantula drones even far more. And let me remind you that Quadpod is much more expensive than your Mammoth, even more than Juggernaut. The only answer? Support them with other units or make use of support powers. The Forgotten Punishers will be roughly in the same situation.

No machine gun to Mammoth. That defeats the point, purpose and unit role. GDI has heaviest units in game. I am in fact glad for any weakness enemy T3 units can have. Versatile unit without weakness or any drawbacks(no matter how much I love and miss Starcraft Terran Goliath) is a death of any decent game which calls itself an RTS.

BTW:Predator tank MKII has a GDI Harvester machine gun, which sucks a lot and doesnt approach enemy units when attacking, does not shoot at maximum range.

You must be satisfied with great statistic assets of Titan and Mammoth and its treads + missiles. Eveyrthing else is covered by your unit combo of your combined army.

Firehawks: Oh. vice-versa? No, probably not, only answer is the use of your micro skill or maybe on very fast switching between agresssive and passive stance. Otherwise they will all focus on nearest target.

No SW mod- This mod replaces the "Add Random Crates" option with a "No Superweapons" option

Gates: Yap, there were troubles. Worldbuilder is an editor older even than the original Starcraft StarEdit editor or Age of Empires 2 editor.

Everyone were certainly already thinking of some scripts: "unit is in location(polygon waypoint area) - open/close the unit(gate). It simply doesnt work. Atleast not yet, though I doubt it ever will. I havent seen how BFME gates works for a long time.

Well, I relatively agree, I think that GDI already has the monopol and greatest amount on and of EMP capabilities, since there already is another EMP bomber ammunition load-out for Orca Bomber. The standard Orca rockets. And then another bombs, now EMP bombs of Firehawk. FortessMaximus had long and interesting suggestion about that in Moddb.com

MARV? When there will be Forgotten Reclaimer?

No. no capacity limits except for Commando and Epic units, and currently also for mercenary mutants.

MLRS kills Harpy in one missile load-Out before Harpy even sees the MLRS. Single empty Goliath APC can take on six Harpies. I wanted a GDI air superiority fighter in Tacitus archive, but fans got their Predator tank back instead. Orcas still got their miniguns + Jetpack Troopers. Missiles on deployed outpost, on deployed Battle base of Orca Rig. To hell with KW Zone Raiders when we have Tacitus Defender squad. I would prefer some AA for Falcon or for Wolwerine (or probably addition of KW Slingshot or AA to Hammerhead/Condor infantry aerial transport) so he would technically be the same as Seeker, Attack Bike, Looted Pitbull and Humvee.

And Mammoths, let alone Mammoth Walker with AA railguns upgrade doesnt give a shit even about a large bunch of Harpies. Should rather be vary of Banshees.

Juggernaut. Thats interesting. But to actually make a use of that extremely slow Juggernaut even more with snipers to not move, finally getting to spot and bombard very small area, and that to ever being usefull vs Nod anything, especially when its Juggernauts vs Cyborg Commando, thats beyond me, how you can even make that. xD

Highlighing the area being select for Bombard ability is good idea. And yeah, Juggernaut often suddenly stops bombarding, setting on a long cooldown for another bombard. For me its weird that they all have to bombard just a single structure point instead of unleashing proper blast radius bombardment all over the place, like Terran Siege tank. I mean, they are so slow in everything they do, and even if they can bombard all over the entire map with infinite range, that shot is still relatively slow.

- Well let's say I'm defending an area with Mammoths and Wolverines. Even if Wolverines are all promoted to heroic status they will die every time there is a wave of attack. But I can just leave Mammoths Alone and the chances of them actually getting destroyed is much MUCH lower Even if you have 10 wolverines, 1-2 of them will die each time. GDI simply doesn't have any durable anti-infantry weapon.

But my concern with Mammoths are that even TENS of mammoths will be destroyed by a small squad of rocket infantry, it is not like they are killing infantry slowly, it is like they are virtually not dealing damage at all. For example, rocket units are not the most optimal things to destroy structures, but it is not like you can't mass rocket units and NOT deal damage to structures. Hell, even massed machine-gun units can deal damage to anything. But the current TE Mammoth Tank creates a huge hole in how to attack them. Is Carnius planning to leave it as is?

Was the intended idea that Mammoth tanks should be near helpless against infantry? Even in the original game, with railguns hitting all the time it was still near useless to units like Black hand unless you had lots of Mammoth Tanks but if you are getting attacked by even a small group of Black Hands, they will do their damage to your base before being all killed at which point you would lose much more structures

Also, I got this from the Tiberium Essence Wikia about the Mammoth Tank:

"When upgraded with Railguns the Mammoth's weapons pack much stronger hits, while never missing any targets even as small as infantry units." Which doesn't really make sense in the actual mod gameplay

I think the best way for Railgun units is probably reducing their damage so they don't one-shot each squad member. Maybe (2 or 3 times). Note that in original game, most infantry except Black Hand, Zone Trooper and Commandos would lose a squad member every time they are shot with railguns. I think halving that damage would be fair.

Because with the current way, you are supposed to pour out resources to no end every time there is an attack because APCs and Wolverines are too limpy. Everything except Mammoths are too limpy (except against infantry )

- Also, I think Orca Minigun should DEFINITELY be powered up since it probably deals even less damage than a Jetpack Trooper. There is almost no use to it unless you mass orcas to attack a unit that can't deal damage to air units.

-Well I have been in a situation where I had to mass produce several dozen Juggernauts and tell them each to bombard certain spots adjacent to each other creating a big circle out of many small ones. Now imagine EVERYTIME retelling them to bombard them again and remembering what exact area you told them to bombard or follow the explosions

- Also with the NO SW mod, do I install it just like any other mod and then use the launcher to get it started? In that case, how do I use Tiberium Essence with it? Right now I just make a script of each specific map where superweapons are disabled. But it means there is an extra copy for each map which is just not the best way

GDI has the heaviest and most durable vehicles in game, with the greatest anti-infantry capabilites in game. Srsly, u mad bro?

Wolwerine, JpT's, Disruptors, Orca bomber, Mammoth walker, Kodiak, MLRS, Falcon with upgrade, APC's, bunkers, turrets, AP upgrade.

Use a micro skill, dancing, Orca rigs and Urban combat for your advantage and to create chokepoints. GDI are an unstoppable steamrolling stompers.

I have tested and studied the Mammoth Railguns just yesterday. They have no recoil, have fantastic shot speed and accuracy, they hit every time, they did shoot from both of Mammoth cannons when moving backwards, one shot did a splash damage and killed entire enemy Militant rocket squad in one shot and there are also the missiles.

Its in fact easy for them to deal with infantry, easy to destroy garrisoned structure, easy to roll over infantry, easy to shoot them to pieces and killing them by each shot(alternately or from both cannons at once, doesnt matter) and tearing entire squads apart like nothing.

Rockets/missiles are anti-vehicle and anti-air weapon, they deal only 50% damage vs structures, and 75% vs infantry.

10 Mammoths would obliterate entire map and crush and tear apart hundreds of any type of infantry.

Thats what my favorite Black Hands are supposed to do. To stand bravely even before Mammoth tanks. And get rolled over even though they are Heavy infantry upgraded to become unsuppresable. I am telling you that Wolwerines and Jetpack troopers will screw any enemy infantry in majestic way, if your tanks and walkers are in danger.

Defend yourself with Vulcan turrets, Wolwerine, I am telling you.

Omg, every major damage upgrade(like are Railguns) increase damage by 50%. They are using magnetic acceleration, becoming an high-tech advanced energetic weapon, greatly increasing their piercing power, with fantastic shot speed and accuracy, naturaly. Which corresponds with every real life realism terms. So it does a perfect sense.

If Wolwerines, APC's, Jetpack troopers are "too limpy" for you, then use Disruptors, and mainly Disc throwers with Snipers, if you are truly that much incompetent Commander. "Limpy Titans, limpy Predators, limpy Disruptors, limpy Juggernauts", u mad bro? Jetpack troopers as an flying infantry are actually quite resistant vs enemy missiles. And were even more in TE 1.51.

I agree with that. Orca miniguns sucks, thats why you have APC's, Wolwerines, Vulcan turrets, Jetpack troopers with Sub-calibre rounds AP bullets upgrade.

I recommend you to play with Nod and Scrin to see what it means "limpy".

Juggernauts. Hmm, interesting, it sounds like Starcraft 2 LotV terran Liberators when they are in Defender mode. They are static and their bombarding area is highlighted very nicely, dealing super-damage vs single units, though they inexplicably cannot target structures.

I never use a Juggernaut, Titan, MLRS, Mammoth, ZT spam and Mammoth walker is always enough for me to get through anything. Never use a Sniper and never used a Spot for bombard ability, atleast havent used it for a long time.

Seems like "No SW mod is really a standalone mod. Thats a pity. Well, you gotta do it manually for each map in Worldbuilder and have to rename them in some smart manner. Yeah, it is uncomfortable, you create and extra copy for everything, but thats how it is. CNC3 is not good in combining mods and its skudef files.

Well, Mammoth tanks can shoot at non-moving infantry but have you tried how they attack moving infantry?

Try attacking 10 Mammoth Tanks with a single tarantula drone, see how it gets through undamaged

Also I didn't mean to reduce overall Railgun damage, what I meant that instead of messing railgun's accuracy so it doesn't kill infantry, maybe reduce railgun damage ONLY against infantry? Because this way we quantitatively reduce the damage and make sure that a group of for example, 5 Mammoth Tanks can kill a tarantula drone. To me this sounds a better way to balance unit roles instead of making sure railguns refuse to hit the target only against moving infantry.

You want to actually nerf and change railguns?

Aaah, this problem.

But know I finally see what is a problem, which is actually not a problem at all.

Yap, they that has to do with their slow attack speed reaction. Well, they sometimes do a lucky shot. Even missiles due to slow reaction misses the target.

See what happens when you force attack the air units which flies in circles(vertigo,orca bomber,banshee). The anti-air defences missiles misses them and only sometime hit them with lucky shot just like when every unit tries to shot moving infantry. The same applies even to Disruptor. Naturally, Gun attack type damage units (GDI AA turret, Vulcan turret, JpT, Wolwerine,etc.) dont have any troubles.

This is a known thing, absolutely normal. The moment they stand and start shooting is the moment of their death.

Slow and thus largerly inaccurate Reaction speed of Cannon attack type damage units is known. And it results into this. And this thing is game engine hardwired.

Actually I havent seen any non-Gun,non-Sniper attack type damage unit to ever hit moving infantry. That applies even to ranged Blast attack type damage units like Disruptor, Devastator, Cobra artillery), though old Devastator and blast radius itself of course always has much greater chance to actually hit something.

I thing that rare exception to that would be the ever precisely hitting Banshee. Since its Attack Reaction speed, attack speed/rate and shot speed is in all statistics super great fast. If the Attack Reaction speed statistic greatly improving accuracy vs moving infantry can be manually altered on other units, by default via modder (Carnius), well, that is that question I would like to know the answer on, as well.

My bad, I am aware that non-gun attack types don't always hit moving targets.

But specifically with railguns they COMPLETELY miss their target when infantry is moving. They are not shooting at where the infantry was a moment before it has moved. They are hitting a completely irrelevant target sometimes. Try attacking moving infantry with zone troopers. They are going to be hit to an area that the infantry had never been in the first place.

I did not say I want to nerf railguns, they are as good as it is.

But compared to the original game, railguns against infantry has been nerfed. But the way this has been achieved is not the best way. Instead of railguns targeting a random area when trying to hit moving infantry, couldn't it be a better idea to decrease railgun damage ONLY against infantry?

This way we can make sure that an army of Mammoth tanks at least can kill a single drone before it gets close.

For example: Let's say with vanilla railguns, it would take 1 shot to kill a tarantula drone

Wanna make it less effective against infantry? Just reduce their damage against infantry so it takes 2 or 3 shots to kill them instead of one.

So you would need more railgun units to achieve the same effect.

But with the current way you cannot achieve the same by increasing the number of your railgun units so they kill infantry.

My point is that, the railguns should at least target where the infantry were at the time of the shooting instead of a random target

Well, yeah originaly the railguns would hit always hit everyting with perfect precision.

It is intereting that they are not just ineffective vs moving infantry, they're practically useless. Radically reducing damage vs infantry. I think that can be done, and its accuracy vs everything what moves can be brough back as well, probably.

For example Carnius did this to Jetpack troopers upon TE 1.6 release:

"- Jetpack Trooper - attack damage vs vehicles reduced by 50% and vs aircraft by 25%, reduced armor vs missile type weapons"

So I guess it is possible. But have you ever seen for example Devourer, or Basilisk beam cannon etc., to ever hit moving infantry? Practically the same problem.

They target the place where they were 1-2 seconds ago = slow reaction attack speed=resulting in mega-crappy accuracy. But this particular weakness exist for a purpose.

Perhaps we can truly adjust it and balance it per your idea for better gameplay experience. But you know, when I have Mammoths, I seriously almost dont care about such insignificant suckers as infantry xD It is the main reason why are other units used, usefull and have their unit role.

@Oaks I agree with what you say, but my point is that, there is NO problem with railgun unit aiming at where the enemy was AT the time of shooting.

But railguns frequently are shooting to a COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT place, that infantry did not move in/from. It makes sense that railguns are. This way you can have 10s of Mammoth tanks and NONE of them would be able to hit.

The best way to make Mammoth Tanks less useful against infantry is NOT to mess up their accuracy but just to reduce their damage vs infantry, that's it

But then again, what use would be there for any anti-vehicle infantry, especially Tarantula mines, Shock troopers, Zone troopers etc. if enemy/your Zone troopers,Titant,Mammoth will hit them every time? Well, radical decrease of Railgun anti-infantry damage would need to be like 75% atleast.

And this happens only when they are moving. Well theres still the garrisoning and urban combat. And since your Mammoths got two railgun cannons which would have 100% accuracy all the time again, it would render Tarantula drone useless as they would kill them in one shot(actually in one double-shot)

And again how much it would screw and need to change the overall gameplay balance of all Cannon weapon using units of all factions with Damage upgrade.

80% of the time, who gives a shit about whatever the fuck infantry is doing, if you can just fuck them up with other anti-infantry units.

@Oaks,

I see your point. I guess I was used to having lots of Mammoths in one spot and they would destroy anything on the ground.

But on the other hand, there are units like Cyborg Commando, Banshee that can be a threat to EVERYTHING they can target (since Cyborg Commando cannot aim at air units).

Also, there are certain units that are not meant to be used as a counter against other certain units (Even though they are theoretically good at it)

Example, It is utterly stupid to send Disc Throwers to Kill snipers. Noone's gonna say then what use would be there for Disc Throwers.

But even with original railguns, infantry would still serve as a distraction since it is overkill to use 2700 to kill most infantry.

But I got another idea, even when Mammoth tanks target another immobile infantry there is about 25-50ish % chance that it will hit. How about making sure that stays the same for moving infantry too? Because making Mammoth tanks completely useless against infantry is kind of extreme in my opinion

Snipers sucks. A lot. Well, maybe not that much, but basic infantry + especially jetpack troopers with wolwerines as always will not give a shit about large bunches of stealthed or garrisoned snipers or about lost 2-8 squads of basic infantry. The other infantry will just load up in the APC.

Disc throwers great anti-structure, good anti-vehicle and perfect anti-infantry blast radius damage + clear garrison to screw with said snipers, can hardly be ignored.

Cheaper for 200 credits, in squad of 4. Thats every way superior to Snipers.

Banshee anti-structure damage will be as per wish of absolute majority of fans decreased roughly by atleast 35%. It is true that even a single Banshee is superior and will screw over even a bunch of incoming Firehawks with AA backlash missiles. I would guess we could decrease Banshee AA damage as well a little bit xD

Distraction, meat/shield. Thats what pathetic Disintegrators and Buzzers do. Role of infantry is maybe not decisive but still important enough to ´be quote essential.

Missing immobile infantry with railguns? Thats impossible. Far from useless. And it applies only to moving infantry. Their accuracy vs moving infantry could be increased from practically 0% to atleast 50%, but 100% means we're getting back to original EA gameplay. Which is an unbalanced crap. Though its indeed relatively debatable, in this particular detail of case.

@Oaks

Well, In the original game, Grenadiers' grenades were too slow to reach the target which made them open to attack, I'm glad that Disc Throwers are faster but still you need to wait before reach their target. I make several foxholes and fill them up with snipers which will make sure that no black hand will get through. I have no Idea why you think snipers suck since they have superior range and speed compared to grenadiers

I attacked a single Banshee with a Single Firehawk and they both died. Banshee is just superior to Firehawk in EVERY way possible:

-Can attack everything and actually severely damage it.

-Can release its missiles faster

-Doesn't need to change loadout

I think Firehawk should have the ability to use their AA missiles against ground targets (vehicles) too. In the same fashion as Banshee. And reserve the groundpounder bombs for structures only.

It would still be overall slightly inferior to Banshee but it is justified considering its price

Also, when it comes to Orcas,

I don't understand anyone's justification regarding their pathetic minigun by saying "Well you have jetpack troopers".

You wouldn't expect Zone Troopers to deal more damage than Mammoths now do you?

Orcas MUST be doing more damage than a single Jetpack trooper with the minigun (or at the very least equal). Considering they cost more and they are a vehicle. Rocket troopers can kill Orca's easier than they would Jetpack Troopers. Hell, even MONTAUK kills Orca's faster than Jetpack troopers xD

Orca's also need to use their Hellfire Missiles against air, since it is a missile and all missile units can attack air by default At least this way they would actually be called a fighter

On the other hand, considering how Firehawk has way more missiles compared to original game. Maybe Orcas need more too. 10 instead of 6 probably?

Just to see as the last member of Black Hand squad clear garrison and you whoompty-fucking-do lost 2000 credits. xD

Snipers range? bigger than any but still suck. Attack speed? suck. Damage yeah nice, but to kill off the squad before they kill your ass? suck.

Yeah just because the banshee bitches are for 2200 (and Firehawks for 1800 or 1500) aint mean they can screw-a-fuck-around as they see fit eh?

I would say that one fast big-ass blast radius powerfull EMP grounpounder bomb and much smaller cooldown for stratosphere fighter booster ability would be nice.

Yap, that would be nice if Firehawks would have greater range, reaction speed to release missiles faster. Yeah, maybe, but Banshees would finally have one fucking weakness, except for being a wee bit on expensive side. Hell they needed upgrade first in TE1.4 or when to actually be able to engage enemy air units to screw with Scrin PAC's, Stormriders, Devastators, Leviathan( Assault Mothership, Planet Cracker Mothership respectivelly), etc.

You could say that for railguns only ZT squad is like a half of Mammoth damage xD two shot to screw light vehicle, since it takes one double-shot for mammoth.

In fact for a heaviest, most expensive T3 non-epic infantry, ZT's damage could be even increased a fuck-a-bit. You are right its somewhat ironic that Black Hands can smile to their inaccurate faces, while ZT's are trying to hit them with those slow as fuck railguns.

Yeah, exactly. Though Montauk has one albeit slow but powerfull AA Obelisk of light. Orcas could have passive stealth detection, AA rockets and no stupid pew-pew minigun, since they dont have Sub-calibre rounds, but would be affected by their small range and the AA rockets would need to have smaller damage. That way they can make use of Advanced Fire Control upgrade. 8 rockets could suffice, but I fear with that we will deny the use and role of Firehawks.

Perhaps the T2 Orca fighters could have Firehawks Backlash AA missiles second ammunition-load out with 6-8 missiles and Firehawks would be in turn denied of any AA, but have powerful bombs. Then again there also those Orca Bombers and we would be poking around who from them would and would not have the EMP bombs.

Maybe Firehawks only ammunition could be versatile both anti-ground and anti-air long ranged load out of MLRS missiles, just like Tempest MLRS. So the Orca Bomber could still unique blast radius anti-infantry, anti-structure napalm bombs and only air unit with EMP bombs. Its always like that if you buff something here, you must nerf something there.

Orcas can screw around with your heavy vehicles and walkers, but then agai,n they are be traditionally laughed at by missile/rocket/plasma disc (garrisoned) infantry and light AA vehicles and air superiority units- Banshees, Stormriders, current Backlash AA missiles load-out of Firehawks, PAC's, Leviathan, Harpies, Venoms, Scourges.

Well I used to have that problem of putting 2 snipers to a foxhole only to be burned by black hand and see my 2000 credits go down the drain

But when you have 4 snipers in a small area, they will wreak havoc to EVERY INFANTRY. You can have 10 grenadiers and you would still wait for them to actually finish throwing.

On the other hand, this is what I think about Firehawk:

They must be a more fighter oriented aircraft. Their missiles should definitely be universal, both for ground and air, it wouldn't really matter if they had groundpounder bombs or not Also, they shouldn't copy the MLRS missiles they are too slow for Firehawk. Firehawk's own missiles are good enough, they just need to attack vehicles too.

And when it comes to Orcas, their minigun must be stronger than a jetpack troopers by a little margin. And their missiles should also be AA but I don't think it would diminish the role of Firehawk, since Firehawk is more of a Hit and Run aircraft and Orcas can't really fill that role. Even if their missiles cannot attack Air, that's fine as long as minigun can fill that role. (Kinda like Vertigo but not as pathetic) Also, they should have their minigun active ALL THE TIME to avoid babysitting the orcas. Also, Orcas shouldn't lose to a damn Harpy either with a minigun nor their hypothetical Anti-air and anti-ground missiles

And Orca Bombers are just as good as they can get.

So,

Orca Fighter - Attack Aircraft (vehicles, aircraft, structures to a lesser extent), Infantry, Aircraft with minigun. (Maybe instead of increasing its damage to be slightly better than Jetpack troopers, one way would be to give them Sub calibre rounds and increase its basic damage slightly since I don't think sub-calibre rounds can actually close out the gap difference alone

Firehawk - Fighter, tactical bomber (would be really cool attacking vehicles the way it currently does to aircraft). Doesn't need any nerfing when it comes to AA roles, since it is an AIR superiority fighter and to a lesser extent a bomber both in comparison to Orca Bombers and Vertigo Bombers)

Orca Bomber - Pure Strategic bomber

Also, it is not a bad thing to have 2 units being able to perform the same duty at a satisfactory level.

There are Rifleman Squads, Snipers, Grenadiers and a Commando, both meant for infantry, they are all fair to really good at what they do and different situations will call for different measures.

I'm, hoping with the situation I described, it is still clear that Firehawks will distinctly retain their air-superiority fighter role, Orca Fighters can counter Aircraft as a self-defense measure if they want to and act as a general attack aircraft while Orca Bombers do what they are named to do

Edited by: heyjudek

And then comes one Wolwerine/Raider Buggy/Razorback/Cougar around to screw your Snipers in 3 seconds xD

Except for Cyborg walkers.

Yap, I meant in a term of being them aerial long-ranged artillery distinctive role, while of course being shot as fast as Backlash missiles or Banshee plasma shots(even faster), and of course being able to shoot both ground and air. So using Backlash missiles vs everything should suffice for Firehawk. No need for second amunitin load-out, no need for grounpounder EMP missiles- except for Orca Bomber, who technically already has them.

Orca minigun is always active( used in passive way) in different mods- like TWA, for example. Perhaps Orca fighter doesnt need to change ammunition at all as well, and would be nice to go off with just those rockets, being them able to used again vs both ground and air.

If Orca fighter wants to remain his minigun then yeah, it needs to have Sub-calibre rounds upgrade and it would be nice for it to act like Wolwerine aerial gattling gun but with AA. and perhaps only as AA. Though I dont want to see all those angry Harpies,Stormriders,Banshees having trouble to screw with Orcas.

Ground units will not be too much pleased that yet another unit is behaving like a total dick-but douchebag screwing around with them. Like Banshee, like Firehawk, xD

Well, that's why I make 2 foxholes and put 2 snipers in each

And behind those foxholes I have lots of AA turrets. AA turrets with railguns, will 1-shot Aircraft, Snipers 1-shot infantry and the Mighty Mammoths 1 shot all the vehicles

I agree that if you actually make Firehawk (Backlash?) missiles universal, it wouldn't really need a loadout switch. But it wouldn't still hurt for firehawk to have their original groundpounder bombs for those who want to make it some sort of a bomber, although it would still be inferior to Orca Bomber's carpet bombs or Vertigo Bomber's bombs. Since it can't use both at the same time, I think it is definitely fair. But that is optional in my opinion

The thing with Orca fighters is that it would need an always active universal machine gun and limited stock of his current missiles (. It wouldn't really throw the game off balance since it would be something like a venom with a limited set of missiles. 8-10 Should suffice as you suggested

This way you get a well-rounded assault aircraft. As long as it has universal non-pathetic universal minigun, it wouldn't matter that much if its missiles can attack air or not. Although I think it should

It wouldn't pose much threat to ground vehicles thant it already was once its missiles are out and it was his main role anyway Then it is just the machinegun against infantry and aircraft

Edited by: heyjudek