TE 2.0 Balanche issues Thread - Tiberium Essence Fans

This thread is created to report every balance issue spotted on TE 1.6 and focuses mainly about GDI, Nod and Scrin.

Forgotten balance issues will come after 2.0 release.

The main goal is to make all the factions perfectly balanced and each unit/structure in the game should be useful and effective.

You can talk about each unit, structure, ability and upgrade, drawing attention to all the aspects, and make all possible suggestions.

Edited by: FortressMaximus

I think, gdi riffle, rocket, grenadier infantry should have a second upgrade. Damge and range upgrade would do

Edited by: aisharp

Sorry, the only thing you can do is probably to delete this thread, create new and give a it the correct headline and copy our texts, with our names superscripts, I guess.

1.)You know why Buzzers, Pacifiers, Mastermind, Cyborg Commando, Cyborgs, Stalwarts, Eradicators, KW Ravagers, Tarantula drones, Visceroids, Tiberian Fiends and Contaminators can garrison but Disintegrators and Shock troopers cannot? Because..I will spare you of profanity, but I dont like twisted logic. xD

It would be nice for Scrin to finally have some proper APC like Manta or Reaver (the TE 1.3 Manta APC only for Buzzers were a bummer xD) Yes, such unit would lose the Attach Buzzer ability, but who cares about that.

Scrin mobility and transportation: Wormhole SP is T3 or even T4, 2000 credits it soo much, too long cooldown. I think that Shock troopers and Stalwarts Blink pack could use bigger range and smaller cooldown (equal to Zone Troopers Jetpack) Ravager gunship should carry vehicles instead; Disintegrators, Shock troopers, Stalwarts cannot shoot out from it anyway. (Unlike any GDI or Nod unit, including garrison clearing Disc throwers and Black Hands from GDI Condor)

Wheres any Scrin T1,5 or T2 proper cheap and quality infantry unit/ squad like Black Hands, Jetpack trooper. Nowhere. Just the damn bugged, exploitable, hover infantry which cannot be run over, the Buzzer. You know how easily can single Wolwerine exploit rank from Buzzer Hives, right? If they have clear garrison, why there rather cannot be a mobile Buzzer Hive infantry or vehicle? The melee based, periodically spawning 3 Buzzers anti-infantry defense, is the weirdest thing I have ever seen. Why theres not any Razorback plasma gun or Stalwart-like fusion-rifle Scrin turret defense instead? You know what happens when bunch of Buzzers Hive are attacking some Nod unit and they throw in Chemical missile? All those uncontrollable Buzzers changes into Visceroids! Single Buzzer also cannot defeat a Visceroid, it dies after Visceroid bites it in a single moment. That is why I would rather prefer to totally remove every Buzzer, Buzzer Hive, Tiberium Hive upgrade and Swarm Support power from TE.

2.) Wolwerine: were already nerfed, but it still takes 3 Raider Buggies to beat one. Two Wolwerines will literally kill each other with one Manta. Weirdly enough, one Scorpion will beat two Wolwerines, but we know that Manta is superior to Scorpion. (I guess the Scorpion attack speed is the main factor of this)

Disintegrators: It takes 3-4 squads of Disintegrators to beat single Wolwerine. I would like Assimilators Phase out ability for Disintegrators, in fact, they maybe could rather serve as T1 suicide Fanatics squad. The ehm, "explosion" they do when ran over is more than pathetic. Upgrading them, directing their horde between enemy while benefiting from Phase out ability for few seconds and it the right time manually or just by right clicking doing the boom, sounds good to me. Far more better than what they ever did. Scrin Baneling FTW.

3.) Jetpack trooper were also already nerfed, but single one will kill a squad of three Shock troopers. Yes, Shock trooper has slightly bigger damage then Seeker, but slower attack speed and smaller range. (Interesting how CNC.wikia.com states the exact opposite)

So, Seeker survives with 50% HP, but kills JpT in 8 shots. Shock troopers would kill JpT in 7 shots, but they die instead, with each squad member fallen, quality declines even more. Note that Shock trooper is +50 credits more expensive, has +1 bigger build time and has the exact same tech tier 2,5.

4.) Theres a difference between Gun and Rocket type damage, but Razorback kills JpT in two fast shots. Goliath APC, Raider Buggy are equally effective, but it takes an hour for GDI AA Battery to down a single JpT. Not good.

5.)Single Tarantula drone kills a Titan. Well, yes it requires 4 of them to kill heavy T3 units and 6 of them to kill Mammoth, but their boom damage is huegly OP vs light and medium vehicles. Banelings would be suprised.

6.) Scrin Support Powers: Stasis shield is nice, Phase Field is extremely weird and Meteor Strike needs to be much more potent, but where is any T2 Scrin Stealth or EMP capability, other than only melee attack of slow,clumsy,expensive Quadpod, Enemy Nod Stealth tank requiring stealth for Conqueror for his assimilation ability ( superslow moving derp stealthed Conqueror, thats a joke of century) And Eradicators with their EMP grenade are rare, Tacitus Archive is not exactly everywhere. Think of how much Reavers or Devourers or Ravager gunships or Devastators or even those Storm riders could use Stealth or EMP. Though, dis would probably deny them the use of and/or the Tiberium Enhancement, Heavy or Light Forceshields, Blink Pack.

7.) Time and again, I wonder why Nod Shadows, Black Hand female Commando and Snipers keeps such crappy quality. What kind of special elite infantry is that, for their price when they are scared of 3-5 squads of basic infantry? The only moment you will feel that bunch of Buzzers may prove to be usefull. Maybe. :-) Not like that JtPs', Wolwerines, Harpies and Razorbacks would have any mercy with you. xD

8.) Laser capacitators increases damage for Nod only by 25%, it applies on Shadows, even despite they alrey use lasers. Why should not the same apply even to proper quality neglected Avatars and Basilisks Beam cannons, so they could finally shine as they should. If 90% of GDI vehicles have Reactive armor, if only a few has Railguns as well, then I would naturally expect from Nod as a balance counterweight the still inferior but upgraded damage power of Laser capacitators on absolute majority of Nod vehicles and the rest is assured with Tiberium Power Pack upgrade, which also could increase an armor for few percents, so the Nod vehicles can survive just one more shot extra, since that upgrade already applies on like 80% of Nod vehicles, which is correct. And I already depicted more than enough reactions of Scrin to deploy, to all that GDI and Nod bravado.

9.) Long awaited better damage, attack speed of Nod anti-air rockets defense. And I still think it could use the stealthed when idle by default.

10.) Nod:

Raider Buggy: EMP coils are wasted on it, give it Tiberium Powerpack instead.

Scarab APC: Wheres a weapon? Could use integrated Shredder turret or Tiberium Powerpack upgrade, Raider buggy-like weapon for anti-air and infantry,increase its health and armor, but yes increase its price from 600 to 800 credits as well, how is the brother-in-law of KW Reckoner supposed to compete with GDI Goliath APC and with Ravager gunship or any other..roughly comparable Scrin stuff? Why not Stealthed or maybe rather Stealthed when idle?

Vertigo bomber: remove anti-air pew pew gun and its napalm bomb could clear garrison. I would like to see some second Ammunition Loadout. Could have EMP bomb(s) or Hallucination bomb working even on vehicle or on defenses. Why not Tiberium Fuel as well?

Stealth tank: Thats the good candidate for EMP coil, stealthed, out of nowhere, behind your Mammoth(s)/walker or when in emergency situation. Even when detected, low health, about to be destroyed or crushed, yet still dangerous as fuck.

Devils tonque: Old flame tank could rotate its flame turret and burn the stuff when moving, retreating, still posing threat to every incomming bastard. Could use increased range, Tiberium powerpack upgrade, price lowered from 1400 to 1200,1250, 1300,1350 credits. Overall quality and survability must improve.

Lets talk about Falcon, Disruptor, Orca Bombers, Devastators, etc. some other day. I think this wasnt all that, and could be enough today, for starters :-)

Ok gentlemen. I’ve tried to delete this thread but it seems impossible.

Sorry again for the wrong title.

There are plenty of good suggestions here.

“I think, gdi riffle, rocket, grenadier infantry should have a second upgrade.”

AP ammunition for GDI rifle is imperative.

For rocket squad I don’t know.

Grenadier should benefit for the shockwave EMP upgrade.

Sniper team must be really improved. They could benefit from the auto injector packs, and their firepower should be high to kill entire squadrons in few seconds. Maybe a price reduction would help this unit.

Medic should cost less too and maybe benefit from the composite armor. They are underused.

Zone Commando doesn’t get any promotion using the orbital strike against structures. A possible solution should be the ability to “switch” between the standard rifle and the orbital attack against slow targets/structures. In this way he may get a chance to damage vehicles too. For an unknown reason, Avatars are immune to Commando attack.

“You know why Buzzers, Pacifiers, Mastermind, Cyborg Commando, Cyborgs, Stalwarts, Eradicators, KW Ravagers, Tarantula drones, Visceroids, Tiberian Fiends and Contaminators can garrison but Disintegrators and Shock troopers cannot? Because..I will spare you of profanity, but I dont like twisted logic.”

Me neither my friend, for this reason I strongly suggest to make most (if not all) Scrin infantry units able to garrison buildings. They are totally out of any urban domination.

Maybe a Tarantula drone should be able to “sabotage” a neutral building, so it will explode if enemy infantry wants to garrison it.

Disintegrators need to be overall better, with more health, range and firepower against vehicles (a price adjustment will be fine).

Yes, Manta should be able to transport a regular infantry squad, and keeping the ability to combine with buzzers. This ability should be improved, making Scrin vehicles really able to threat closer infantry.

“Scrin mobility and transportation: Wormhole SP is T3 or even T4, 2000 credits it soo much, too long cooldown. I think that Shock troopers and Stalwarts Blink pack could use bigger range and smaller cooldown (equal to Zone Troopers Jetpack).”

Yes, 100% agree.

Speaking about the wormhole. I would like to have it permanent and “destroyable”. You pay for that, it must be worthwhile. So Scrin vehicles can be efficiently “teleported” around the battlefield. I am not sure about the Ravager ability to carry vehicles, but maybe can have AA ability against light units like jetpacks. All Scrin infantry units should be able to fire once loaded.

“The melee based, periodically spawning 3 Buzzers anti-infantry defense, is the weirdest thing I have ever seen.”

I know what you mean, but Scrin are aliens, they are used to be “weird” at least. Speaking about efficiency, it’s another question.

“Why theres not any Razorback plasma gun or Stalwart-like fusion-rifle Scrin turret defense instead?”

Don’t ask me. I wasn’t in the development team. Jokes aside, an upgradeable razorback turret can be a good alternative. Even the Scrin AT turret should be upgradeable too.

“Jetpack trooper were also already nerfed, but single one will kill a squad of three Shock troopers. Yes, Shock trooper has slightly bigger damage then Seeker, but slower attack speed and smaller range. (Interesting how CNC.wikia.com states the exact opposite)”

"The Jetpack question is delicate. Jetpack is supposed to be AP/AA unit (focused mainly on light air units, leaving the heavy AA to the Firehawk). He shouldn’t be THAT effective against medium/heavy vehicles and AA turrets. So the weapon should be recalibrated to be effective against everything light.

Shock trooper is supposed to be a Tier 3 AT heavy AA unit. A range/rate of fire benefit should fix the problem, leaving the Razorback the role as AP/light AA vehicle.

Seeker should be better against heavy AA/Capital ships rather than light AA, in this way both Seeker and Razorback could be useful.

“Theres a difference between Gun and Rocket type damage, but Razorback kills JpT in two fast shots. Goliath APC, Raider Buggy are equally effective, but it takes an hour for GDI AA Battery to down a single JpT. Not good.”

This is exactly what I mean. There are several AA units in C&C3 and they should be more specific. Light AA effective against all fast and light air units (Stormriders, Orca fighters, Jetpacks, Venoms, etc.). Heavy AA effective against all heavy air units and capital ships and Universal AA (AA turrets) effective against everything.

In this way several balance problems should be easily solved.

To solve the GDI anti air battery problem, the railgun upgrade should be improved. It’s a 5000 cost upgrade and it’s supposed to bring “several advantages”, at the moment the only advantage is the firepower. This upgrade can give some rate of fire and range bonus, helping the Mammoth tank against Annihilator and Avatar (it’s easily outranged).

Annihilator could have the conversion beam back and the Avatar upgrades should be reconsidered. Ok for Purifier turret and Propaganda as “customizable” upgrades, but a AT vehicle standard upgrade is absolutely required to be considered worthwhile against other Tier 3 counterparts.

Since the Brotherhood has 11 upgrades (instead of 12), something nice and useful can be made. Remove the drilling mechanism (make it a standard ability) and make a true AT laser upgrade for all AT laser based units/structures (laser tower, Scorpion Tank, Basilisk, Avatar, etc.). Maybe a sort of blue or ultraviolet high frequency Tier 3 laser.

Same thing for the EMP upgrade, make it a decent upgrade that affects Buggy and maybe Cyborg Squad (Shadow Team too?), I think about a EMP bullet with area of effect.

The 12^th upgrade can be a special Kevlar armor for all light units (Attack bike, Basilisk, Stealth tank, etc.), so they can survive a bit more against enemy fire (especially against infantry). A Buggy cost less than a Bike and it’s much more durable.

And I would like to make the Particle upgrade specific for AP/Light AA units and structures, like Raider Buggy, Harpy/Venom, Shredder Turret, Cyborg Squad and why not? Shadow team (At least it can become more useful than before and the charge against structures should be a regular C4 without cool down).

Black Hand Commando: why is she so weak? She needs everything: self heal, immunity to Tiberium (like Zone Commando), permanent stealth ability, particle beam instead of the poor laser pistols (at least she could kill enemy infantry better), and what about the ability to C4 every ground vehicles (not only walkers)?

Stealth tank is a Tier 3 unit. It must be more durable. In each situation is replaced by Reaper. It needs to be more aggressive, maybe with a more consistent salvo of missiles and a better rate of fire. EMP with Tiberium upgrade? Maybe as “switchable” missiles to increase the versatility and make it more different than Reaper.

Scarab APC is useless. I suggest to merge it with the Devil’s Tongue in order to have a Flame APC with rotating side turrets. In this way a space can be saved to move the Montauk from the structure list to the vehicle list.

Another useless unit is the Montauk. It cannot be promoted (why?), the AA ability is useless (there are already lots of AA units and it’s silly considered the “underground nature of the unit”, AA lasers don’t fire automatically), its firepower isn’t that great compared to the cost. In theory it should be the evolution of the command vehicle and the “Fist of Nod”, but in practice it doesn’t work. It should be able to produce every Nod ground unit in the battlefield (I know that doesn’t work correctly if “deployed” onto a structured and cannot be promoted in this state), a solution must be found. The weaponry should be focused on the ground, with a medium/long range particle beam against enemy infantry and ultraviolet high frequency lasers against the rest.

“Vertigo bomber: remove anti-air pew pew gun and its napalm bomb could clear garrison. I would like to see some second Ammunition Loadout. Could have EMP bomb(s) or Hallucination bomb working even on vehicle or on defenses.”

Absolutely yes. Get away that ridiculous gun and give the “riot” ability. Tiberium Fuel? Why not? At least it can escape from enemy fire once fired.

Banshee is a bit overpowered. It can destroy almost everything while it should be more dedicated against vehicles and heavy AA, it shouldn’t be so strong against structures.

Speaking about Scrin support abilities (and upgrades). Force fields need to be more balanced. It’s ok that can absorb a EMP blast, but at least the force field should vanish. In this way force fielded units are totally immune to EMP. That’s overpowered.

Meteor Strike shouldn’t be a single target attack, it should have an area of effect (like in KW), since it isn’t that cheap.

For the rest I miss the repair drone ability. The actual light storm is redundant and often useless. Scrin vehicles (and aircrafts) need to be regularly repaired like other vehicles (it’s not fair that they can be repaired in Tiberium fields), with repair drones. The storm is good only for capital ships and Manta, it doesn’t work very well in other cases. And the “toxic” power plants and the “fulminating” Gravity stabilizer is silly. Structures are supposed to be captured by engineers (and, if the player if lucky enough to capture it, random lightning bolts rage randomly).

There is lots of things than need to be discussed, but this answer is long enough. U.U

Edited by: FortressMaximus

Gentleman. This will be tough, really tough and requires, sorry me for that, quite harsh reaction Xd:

This time, I actually to managed to have each point having some sensible continuity and in order with following one, mostly .-)

1.)GDI Sub-calibre/AP rounds for basic infantry: Tiberiumessence.wikia.com

It increases damage for fuckin' 50% and even increases range for 10%, which is more than enough already for Wolwerine, JpT to screw every infantry. Thats also the reason even while Militants have large squads, the Nod basic infantry have two upgrades, to oppose the quality of GDI, which has the Composite armor, which increases health for 50%. Second upgrade for GDI Riflemen is not imperative, but practically forbidden.

PS: Vulcan tower is for 500 credits now, should be for 600, like others factions AP defenses. And +1 second build time. I dont want to nerf GDI quality in strenght, firepower and mighty upgrades,(well, not atleast anymore, if anyone remembers these times: Moddb.com from 2013 xD) and rather to ascertain that Nod and Scrin can live up to challenge.

2.) EMP for Disc Throwers:

Just no, not another KW and many other mods copycat. Time and again I say that GDI has the monopol on EMP capabilites now. Goliath APC EMP mines, Shockwave Bombardment,, Firehawk Groundpounder EMP bombs, Falcon+RPG turret EMP Shockwave warheads. Its more than enough.

Being both garrisonable, riding around doing a gangsta' drive-by in APC, doing clear garrison and even EMP around, at the same time(since its the thankfully passive upgrade,not requiring manully to change ammunition like in KW and other mods cases) is little bit too much.

3.) Sniper (EMP Shockwave Warheads rather for him, dare I say)

If someone from GDI could have another EMP capability, like EMP rounds/shells, then its Snipers or Zone trooper(Zone defenders?). Like mostly every damage upgrade, it would increase their reload time and they would shoot slower yet make them even more excellent and usable even vs vehicles(in case of Snipers), mainly stealthed ones(with Scanner Packs), but, theres the thing of 2 upgrades max only, so.

Snipers, instead of Composite upgrade or Scanner packs could have Tiberium-proof armor or Stealth detection(like Shadows,Pacifier) by default and thus the EMP Shockwave Warheads could apply to them. Yet, they would not be able to EMP defenses and other structures, only vehicles(and detect them), we cannot have tier 2 or 2,5 infantry with too much potent and disabling firepower, stealing job from Falcons and other GDI EMP capabilites.

Well, Carnius even wanted to know the opinion of people on his idea of getting Snipers removed, when there are Jetpack troopers. But as I said to him, look at NATO BlackOps Snipers from CNC FALLOUT mod, where they have massive range and deathly realistic anti-infantry firepower. Thats how our GDI Snipers could be.

Just increase the damn radius for Spot for bombard, for the stupid Juggernauts and it could be given to anyone else to do. Hell, the old Beam cannon Reflector Beam for old Venom(Harpy) were so stupid hassle that Carnius removed it long ago before TE 1.4.

Also unlike Buzzer, which kills Cyborg reaper in four seconds and Wolwerine which kills each other with Cyborg Reaper; Sniper weirdly does only the dummy 1 HP damage to Cyborg reaper (not that the Shockwave EMP warheads would be of any help to Sniper vs Cyborg types anyway)

I would give my left nut for Shock troopers or for Disintegrators (tech tier equal of Snipers, Grenadiers, Shadows, Black Hands, Jetpack trooper) having EMP cabality. :-)

Though, TWA 1.75 (or whichever version) has very small radius active EMP ability for Disintegrators, but I never saw it to actually work. Well, they their Scrin Ravagers (KW) garrisonable infantry with fast ranged anti-vehicle,/anti-infantry attack, so.. yeah.

4.) Stalwarts

Would be very nice if Stalwarts would be little bit cheaper, T2,5 infantry, instead of Shock troopers, which would move to T1,5 (requiring only Stasis Chamber and not also Nerve center) and by decreasing Stalwarts range and few other nerfs, they could gain passive clear garrison instead (like Black Hands, Disc Throwers) the active cooldown melee one. They already are the Blast type attack, anti-infantry/anti-structure effective units, so they should have some proper attack area of effect blast radius. And their blades can also EMP, just like Mutant Brutes claws does. Though again, I always prefer the ranged and passive abilites. Like the Elite BlackHand Confessor throws, albeit with long cooldown slowly and slow, his Hallucination grenade, in an passive way as well (even though theres the active one present, so theres in fact a chance to occur, to throw 2 Hal. grenades in quick succession .-)

That of course is possible only when everything related to Buzzers would be totally put out of equation. BTW. Buzzer is for 200, yet Swarm SP which summons 5 Buzzers is for 1500 or even 2000 credits now. Some mod has it so that 2 Buzzers comes out of Portal for probably 300 credits,like Zerglings, but that is not a solution. As I always say: "Dont increase bugged and weird quantity, but increase quality and apply proper changes" instead." :-)

5.) GDI Medics: "Underused" is a weak word. More like "unused". I saw them only in first mission CnC_Fins custom campaign, and weirdly enough, in the Nod Sarajevo mission, the GDI spam them and sends to..be stucked in the middle of mountain ranges, between ramparts access points.

Its the most bugged unit ever(except Buzzer).

Each time they change into Hospital and back(by selling) they are at full squad and fully healed. When you sell them for the first time, the halve of theor price comes back to you, so that effectively changes their price from 800 to 400 credits. And changing their price to 1600 credits would be really not nice solution.

Are able to very quickly fully heal and replenish two infantry squads at the same time, so we have nearly invincible GDI infantry here. The Scrin methods of Stasis chamber and requring damn upgraded powerplant near or upgrade the Pacifier and then finding the tiberium aura source from tib. field or from Corruptor,etc., is very slow, inefficient, costly, high tiered and damn bothersome dull inconvenient hassle.

The game crash bug ,when Medics are inside any aerial transport,while shot down, still applies. So, I guess, no airpot tickets for Medics from now on..

6.) GDI Zone Commando: Yeah, the Avatar C4 not working bug. Heheh, how many times and how long and much years, we rall epeat that already? :-)

Orbital strike. Yes, again, I say, should require no cooldown, like C4, should have bigger radius, should work much faster. Instead, like i said in the Black Hand Commando disscusion, the C4 could use different animation instead and thus, if possible could be thrown at range as grenade.

So for GDI Commando, we could use reworked C4, done in image of Orbital strike, instead of manually using the slow active ability, which does not provide you with experience. Big "if possible".

7.) Scrin garrison and Shock troopers:

Yeah, urban domination, wasting thousands of credits on extra large gangs of Buzzers and Disintegrators when Wolwerines, Black Hands, Jetpacks and Harpies are comming is really useful eh? :-)

I had very flamefull quarrel with some dude about Shock trooper:

Cnc.wikia.com(Scrin)?file=TW_Shock_Troopers_Render_3.jpg

So this thing taller than Wolwerine and much bugger and fatter than Titan or Juggernaut is infantry(albeit suppossedly heavy infantry) eh? And the squad of three of them can be killed by basic infantry or Wolwerine, or single JpT in few seconds. Yeah, right.. Who holds the true, EA or me?

Tens of them are comming out of Drone platform in next video sequence, hell, dude, tell me how the fuck big is that Drone platform? Bigger than yo mama I guess.

Pacifier and Mastermind even if not in squad looks exactly the same as Shock trooper, if not even bigger and taller, so I dont understand the problem.

We're talking about unit which is very much like Protoss Stalker, only a little bit taller than human. Would be nice if that what we can see in videos and that what everyone is slamming down to my throat could be reflected in game. Three things fatter than 6 people and taller than four people but it dies from gunfire and cannot down a single dude on jetpack!! I am not the one who is riding the mad train here, mr. SryCauldon. Tiberium Essence unlike EA CNC3 is a different game and makes sense in terms of realism. So yeah, no pardon and suck on that, when Tiberian fiends, Contaminators and etc. crazy-ass, bigger than double-decker bus mutated animals in squad are garrisonable as well and are riding their asses in Humvee! Pity that realism tells that Three mutated rhino-pig-wolwes are bigger thah Humvee jeep and are somewhat not all that great at obtaining a frikin' driving license!!

You know who destroyed WTC towers? Not terrorists, but Tiberian fiends shooting out of Condor airplane!!! But oh daaamn, Shock troopers and Disintegrators are too fat and big for that. I am so glad we can all open a damn doors or cockipt cabin, when we have no hands! But atleast we are weird and unique aliens.

Moddb.com

Heheh, sorry for that, I get carried away little bit, ForMax (if I can call you so xD), I dont criticize Carnius or any other fans, but you get my point eh?

I would in fact never expect that you have the same opinion as me, friend. But we are very lonely in this, just a three people together with my friend, M0nkfish:

Moddb.com

Though, I understand the poins and opinions of other people, I know what is give-and-take compromise and the need to meet majority of fans halfway through and that you cannot always have everything you want and the neccesity of backing down a little on something.

I had long disccusions with M0nkfish already in 2009 that Shock troopers could have two weapons, that they could be clear garrisoner, that the Stalwarts like the Westwood concept intended could be T1 or that Stalwarts could be changed into something as Missile troops, yet again these are unique aliens and we want them to be different. So pity that Nod, GDI and Forgotten are all humans with very good Urban fight domination and defensive advantage capabilites eh?

8.)Cyborg reaper:

Shock trooper as T3? Too similiar to Cyborg Reaper, which is problem when Cyborg reaper kills each other with Wolwerine. You should see what it looks like when Cyborg reaper fights with Titan. It takes an hour, where Cyborg reaper could be able to shoot while moving and then finally takes Titan down.

In fact I think that Cyborg Reaper, no, no, it should not be garrisonable Xd, but it should be T2,5, cheaper and more like of a real walker, when its two times more expensive than Shock troopers, albeit its just a cyborg with big augmented metal cybernetic legs, like its bigger brother Decimator, should be superior to and bigger than Shock troopers. More like a vehicle walker, than heavy infantry. The fact the it is being repaired by repair drones as well and that Snipers cant do a shit to it somwhat proves that it is either very peculiar bugged unit or that I am right. I gues its something inbetween. xD

9.)Anti-air: Fully agree.

Railgun upgrade is for 4000 credits now and problem of GDI is that absolute most of it uses the missiles and rockets Rocket type damage as AA.

It does a splash damage to air units, thats why force attacking your own units does only a dummy 1 HP damage, because Carnius intentionally disabled friendly fire, from MLRS, Firehawk Baclash AA missiles, etc, etc, including GDI deployed Outpost. Seeker, Shock troopers, Stealth tank, missile/rocket troopers of course uses it as well.

Problem is that Rockets are ineffective and inaccurate vs infantry. And Jetpack trooper is flying infantry.

10.) Tarantula drone dont need that. We have Booby trap ability of Saboteur for that. But as mr. Liedata mentioned in Bugs thread it doesn work now and we know that Forced Evolution upgrade on Saboteur doesnt work either.

Command card as only 4 icons: I told you that Manta can be APC but cannot anymore be attached with Buzzer. Icon of unit inside or attach Buzzer, evacuate or Detach Buzzer, Ampbhibious and Land mode and Generate Ion Storm, hampers the place. I really dont like that Ion Storm ability, since when hes casting it he cannot move, shoot, rolling over enemy infantry. I would toss it to Ravager gunship instead, for example, so Manta can use Tiberium Enhancement. And can shoot green tiberium crystal shards instead, after upgrade or something like that. Can even shoot like the old original Shock trooper before Plasma discs upgrade. Simply to use diifferent attack animation.

Lightning spike anti-vehicle defense requires upgrade, yes, I would not mind shooting it plasma discs like the old Photon cannon, could use even a remodel, than just re-used redone old Scrin Support power. And Tiberium Enhancement upgrade. Well, yeah, Scrin have two types of shields, so they dont have two types of damage upgrades for their light and few medium vehicles, defenses and some infantry and the other one for mainly for heavy and T3 stuff. That is why I wanted for Manta to have Heavy forcefield instead of Light ones, which they now have, but the Generate Ion storm is T3 upgrade and it does not help him in any way, doesnt improve his statistics. With no early T2 upgrade like Laser Capacitors, Reactive armor, Tiberium Particle Beams, Sub-calibre rounds; the Razorback, Seeker, Ravager gunship,(Stormrider has Plasma missile AA splash damage upgrade now instead) must wait 'till T3, with having only Light shields. And the Particle Accelerator upgrade for Devourer,Disintegrators range is useless and just hampers the place(just like Tiberium Hive upgrade) for something better.

Even though Tiberium Enhancement is now only for 3000 credits, it increases damage only by 20% and health by 12%.

Well, Laser Capacitators are T2 for 2000 credits and increases damage by 25%, so, not all that good.

Then you compare Tiberium Missiles for 4000 credits with one and half minute build time. Increase damage for 50%

Heavy forcefields for 5000 credits and two minutes build time, increases health only by 33%.

Well, even though Seeker has bigger firepower than Scorpion by default, than atleast to cnc.wikia.com, the Scorpion has bigger health. Atleast hes 50 credits more expensive. xD

And then, theres GDI...

11.) Avatar upgrades: cheaper, much cheaper, especially Voice of Kane, I even even halved the price from 800 to 400.

Maybe instead of his own self-upgrade Tiberium Particle Beams or adding Laser Capacitator, there would be one time done upgrade for all Avatars. and only for Avatars probably. Avatar's own Tiberium beam increases his anti-vehicle damage by 50% but I have heard complaints, that even after that it isnt all that great.

I have certainly studied upgraded Avatar vs unupgraded one and yet, I am not smart from it then before much, as well. xD

Even if Mammoth is outranged slightly, it stand superior in health, firepower and anti-air rockets vs Avatars and Quadpod and still vulnerable to such fuckers as Disintegrators, Tarantula drones and C4. Who cares about range of railguns or Juggernauts, dare I say?

Qpod Annihilator: Conversion beam. Problem is that it uses the same attack animation after Tiberium Enhancement upgrade: Buff the upgrade and dont care for active ability, searching for tiberium and running out of mana after 10 shots. KW Tiberium reserves upgrade can kiss our ass. No pain, big gain. xD

I am waiting hours of bunch of Devourers to suck on tiberium and then they get killed by infantry and everything else, 'cause their afraid of few shots. More than 1000 credits and they suck ass. Would be nice maybe to have Proton Cannon beam as an anti-vehicle defense.Sturdy and reliable, 'cause GDI and Nod and Mutants will not care that you have awsome Micro skills of 400 APM for your outranging hit-and-run tactics. Titans will stomp you into ground both literally and figuratively in an one sided battle. xD And if you think that harrasing them with Stormriders for 1400 credits will help you, than my garrisoned missile troops will tell you otherwise

Make Drilling Mechanism for Flame tank a self-upgrade requriring T3 Tech Lab and I am in. Add big attack range buff for Laser capacitator and toss it to Basilisk and/or Avatar(Tiberium beam)

Nod EMP upgrade, making it decent, yes. I could use more exact clarification of what means "decent".

Nod armor: Well, they dont specialize in it much, and kevlar is in terms of realism for infantry only, but atleast cyborgs already have Durable materials.

It or 5% increased armor add to Tiberium power pack upgrade and toss it to Attack bike, EMP coils for Buggies maybe by default and you can toss this or that armor upgrade to Buggy. Basilisk, Stealth tank, Cobra, Harpy even Vertigo would indeed be very grateful for surviving one more shot.

Distribution of Tiberium beams and Laser capacitators: Well, big role in that is played by major upgrade of Tiberium warheads, while other damage upgrade were divided into two minor ones. But I can agree that Beams are for infantry, cyborgs, T1, T1,5, light units and Lazors for tanks, T2 and mainly medium and heavy T3 stuff. Heheh, green beams on Harpy would be really strange. xD But the buggy has AA and it also shoots green stuff, I guess the only difference I would like to see is that green beams dont have AA, otherwise both upgrades are the same, same price, same build time, both increases damage by 25%

If we can buff up Scarab APC and give it a weapon, then Tiberium beams should definitely apply to it. Flame tank as APC, would have AA when rocket troopers inside. Thats not all that much acceptable. Heheh, Montauk is still larger then factory or con.yard anyway. xD

I remember that someone suggested that Harvesters can be produced from Rafineries itself, instead from factories/warp sphere/machine shop, so theres that.

Montauk needs is spawn T1 army abilites fixed up, but otherwise its very mobile and usefull unit, superheavy and heaviest of Nod, 6 Sting turret/Scorpion anti-vehicle lasers and one AA obelisk of light laser. I guess instead it can have 2 Obelisk of light ground lasers, or 4 Scorpion/Sting turret lasers and 2-4 Harpy anti-infantry,AA lasers. Ranking up needs to fixed, yeah, otherwise its deployed T1 factory version is in editor. It is a pity, but the moment when Montauk would change into Fist of Nod, it would lose rank and Carnius even said that that engine simply does not allow that or it crashes the game. Vice versa, starting as structure and being able to change into vehicle would maybe better. But it can now do it only once. Montauk provides with 10% more armor for nearby units, so I must say that I really like like an supportive Epic with great firepower, health much more reliable than any Nod unit,including Avatar, Cyborg commando and having very good AA. suppossedly. xD

Yes, Banshee, too OP vs structures, needs to be nerfed the fuck down.

Scrin shields: it is in the description that it can resist single EMP, light one needs 90 seconds to recharge, heavy one 120 seconds. Maybe it should deflect EMP only when the unit has 100% of shield charged, but we are not exactly in original Starcraft with Protoss Shield Battery recharges and with Terran Science vessels with EMP shockwave.

Ion storms, greatly increases both yours, allied and enemy Scrin aircraft, and heals it at the same time, while damaging enemy as well xD, but Storm column and Gravity stabilizer obstructs build radius, due to to fans reports, even after being destroyed/sold.

You're speaking right from my soul and heart. Where.the hell. are.any.. Scrin repair drones..

Give tib. aura by default to warp sphere or give us back repair drones and/or few ground and air repair drones could be orbiting around Growth accelerator or around deployed Scrin Explorer outpost, like it used to in TE 1.3.

12.) Wormhole:

Permanent, controllable, targetable, destroyable, if not even being able to build multitude of them. TFM Mutants mod has its tunnels, TE Nod has its tunnels(but manually and only for three units), so the only questions for Scrin Wormhole are: Should they have it? Is it possible?

Personally I would probably be satisfied with lower tier, halved price and smaller cooldown. No pain, big gain. Not just Lich king delights in irony and not just him dont like any questions remained unanswered or any lingering doubts. of Scrin to need to become a very great fighting force indeed.

Though, I am being driven only be rightenousness of proper gameplay balance for all factions. :-)

"No pain, big gain", thats my newest and most favorite motto. xD The old one was "Logic, Purpose and Balance above all".

And yes, I have been thinkin' for a quite while about writing a damn frikkin book about Tiberium Essence. :-O

You have something to read all the way through week to monday. Like having a massive e(ass)ay back in school.

Good morning to all the TE community. Sorry for my late but I am very busy in these weeks.

Allow me an elucidation: since we are all mature and respectful persons, I suggest to avoid any kind of flame war, provocation and other childish stuff.

Something like “I am a pr0, you are a n00b. My suggestions are better than yours, bla bla bla” are pointless and don’t help anyone (And you can be the best player in the world, but if you use cheap tactics and imbalanced units/abilities in order to get easy victories, it’s all pointless).

We are here to have fun, share our opinions/ideas and find the best solution to have a funnier, more strategic and more balanced game, hoping Carnius will acknowledge all these reflections.

Another important thing: no matter how long can be an answer. If it’s well written, with valid arguments, there is nothing wrong.

Ok for FM and other nicks, don’t worry about it. U.U

Let’s start.

I’ve thinking about the build time of cranes. Why don’t decrease it to 10 seconds (the same of a power plant) to incentivize the early game expansion?

Would it be a bad thing if the surveyor/emissary/explorer cost 750 instead of 1500 and once deployed, all of them have repair drones and an unique ability (missile turret, propaganda, mini EMP warhead, stealth detection, etc.)? I miss the repair drones for this vital nodes, they were really useful. On a side note, repair drones from the factories could have a bigger radius, to help allied vehicles.

Frankly: I don’t see anything bad in some KW upgrades and abilities. TE use already some of them (sub caliber rounds, Tiberium missiles, ECM, etc.). KW isn’t the devil and all the good features could be implemented.

Speaking about the Sub-caliber rounds upgrade. In my opinion is wasted for Predator and Colossus because they can’t benefit for the armor upgrade (especially the Predator, it needs the most) and I guess the Predator tank is more effective and original with the concept wire-guided AT missiles.

Popgun.ru

In this way it can be a valid and cheaper Tier 1 tank destroyer (maybe wired guided missiles could be cool for Titan too to make it more useful in late games, who knows…)

Back on the rifleman squad, it can make the difference, especially with Tier 3 enemy infantry (Shock Trooper, etc.). Wolverine will always be our beloved meat grinder, no doubts about it.

Another appreciable modification can be foxhole, making it immune to anti garrison weapons and can host one more infantry squadron. In this way the GDI “trench war” can be a valid tactic. If GDI soldier are the best trained they should have the best equipment.

On the other side, for the Nod Militant Squad could have (once upgraded) the hallucinogenic grenade that fires automatically once in a while (and off course, reduce the cool down), to create more confusion in the enemy lines for a small period of time. Black Hand elite upgrade is something really nice and could be even better in my opinion.

About the new Scrin Razorback Squad, it doesn’t sound weird if it has 2 upgrades as well and could be the first basic infantry able to attack light air units (like the razorback vehicle does). So we have 3 unique and interesting basic infantry units.

Vulcan tower is for 500 credits now, should be for 600, like others factions AP defenses.

Why don’t do the opposite and make all the AP turrets cost 500?

Time and again I say that GDI has the monopol on EMP capabilites now. Goliath APC EMP mines, Shockwave Bombardment,, Firehawk Groundpounder EMP bombs, Falcon+RPG turret EMP Shockwave warheads.

No pain, big gain. Let’s be generous. Why am I suggesting to add the shockwave grenades? Because I think they can be useful against cyborgs and rushes made light units and I guess it can be a nice combo inside the APC. I agree with you that Scrin could use EMP, for example: doesn’t it sound strange if a Shock Trooper doesn’t make any shock at all? O_O

For me, Firehawk groundpounder EMP bombs are ridiculous. The old AS single bomb was much better against structures, 8 Firehawks can destroy a superweapon, making them the perfect precision bomber. As it is now it’s silly because it’s redundant with the main AT GDI air unit (the Orca) and the ground attack is ridiculously weak. Firehawk is meant to be great as heavy AA and precision bomber.

The EMP upgrade could be wisely used for Orca (make the missiles good against vehicle only, remove the minigun since there are already the Jetpack troopers) and for the Orca Bomber (not with a switchable weapon, but for a carpet bombing upgraded warhead, so it could be more useful and bring heavy area damages in the enemy base). This will solve a lot of problems. Orca will be a great and balance tank killer (missiles shouldn’t be that good against infantry). Firehawk a precision striker with excellent AA capability and the Orca bomber a fearsome base destroyer. So all the aircrafts get 2 upgrades, are different and fit perfectly their role.

The Sniper deserves some attentions. I want them as GDI unit (they are the only stealth GDI unit, so they should stay), I guess he’s an advanced infantry and can get only advanced upgrades (Auto injectors and scanner pack). There is a nice alternative if you want Snipers useful against vehicles. Ever heard about Act of War Heavy Snipers? They use a 35mm AP/AT heavy sniper rifle which are simply deadly against all ground forces. My only fear is that they can take the role of the Zone Troopers. At least the team deserves 1 more man.

Just increase the damn radius for Spot for bombard, for the stupid Juggernauts and it could be given to anyone else to do.

That for sure. Allow me to clarify one thing. You asked me how can the Juggernaut be good against infantry. It’s a 3 barreled cannon howitzer unit. If it isn’t good against infantry what else it should be? Since these 3 massive cannons, this unit should be very effective against large groups of enemy infantry (even better than Cobra, which uses just one cannon).

I am not against bringing the Ravager as new infantry unit if it can give a hand, but first a massive upgrade for the overall Scrin infantry is required.

And their blades can also EMP, just like Mutant Brutes claws does.

I don’t know, I prefer a shocking Shock Trooper and a powerful Stalwart with passive clear garrison ability as you mentioned.

but increase quality and apply proper changes" instead."

That’s exactly my philosophy. It’s supposed to be a strategic game, not a “mass rush one overkill unit” game…

Are able to very quickly fully heal and replenish two infantry squads at the same time, so we have nearly invincible GDI infantry here. The Scrin methods of Stasis chamber and requring damn upgraded powerplant near or upgrade the Pacifier and then finding the tiberium aura source from tib. field or from Corruptor,etc., is very slow, inefficient, costly, high tiered and damn bothersome dull inconvenient hassle.

Absolutely yes. Make the Portal able to heal/replenish Scrin Infantry units. It’s a portal, it connects with another dimension, so it’s fine for that purpose.

Another imbalanced feature is that Scrin can upgrade their reactors at Tier 1 while other sides make them at Tier 2. I suggest to make equality and bring the power plant upgrade at Tier 2.

And yes, make the Nerve Center able to enable the radar. Scrin are also immune to radar shutdown/EMP.

So for GDI Commando, we could use reworked C4, done in image of Orbital strike, instead of manually using the slow active ability, which does not provide you with experience. Big "if possible".

I commit to your cause.

Three things fatter than 6 people and taller than four people but it dies from gunfire and cannot down a single dude on jetpack!!

Please calm down. I guess Jetpack is supposed to be effective against infantry and Shock is supposed to be effective against AT/heavy AA so it doesn’t sound scandalous if the Jetpack win against his natural prey. Razorback squad should defend Shock against evil Jetpacks…

Moddb.com

You got my attention. These concept units are beautiful!

the need to meet majority of fans halfway through and that you cannot always have everything you want and the neccesity of backing down a little on something.

This is a dangerous statement. Not always the majority of fans is right or is even competent to argue about balance/new units. In most of cases you find some TS fanatics, noobs, fanboys and whiners who want to keep the overkill unit because they aren’t able to play a game fairly. A good modder must really careful about what the fan base asks and what is really required for a balanced, funny, innovative and original mod. Balance and gameplay after all.

So pity that Nod, GDI and Forgotten are all humans with very good Urban fight domination and defensive advantage capabilites eh?

Absolutely not. You know that I want the same strong and effective Scrin infantry like everyone who cares about balance wants.

Shock trooper as T3? Too similiar to Cyborg Reaper, which is problem when Cyborg reaper kills each other with Wolwerine.

The only thing I want is that the Shock Trooper is a good comparison to Zone Trooper as Tier 3 AT infantry.

Decimator? Give a plasma AA rather than a silly laser AA that only works manually…

Railgun upgrade is for 4000 credits now and problem of GDI is that absolute most of it uses the missiles and rockets Rocket type damage as AA.

I will be glad to pay 5000 credits again if this upgrades gives some more rate of fire (AA turrets seems to have a slower RoF once upgraded), and helps the Mammoth Tank against Tier 3 counterparts. Ok that it has more armor (it’s only natural), but it’s also slower, so a wise player can outrange enemy Mammoths with some micro. I am not saying it should get the same range of the Avatar or Annihilator, but a good compromise can be acceptable. Mammoth missiles are meh to me, just a mere support, maybe they could be a bit better against light targets.

Tarantula drone dont need that. We have Booby trap ability of Saboteur for that. But as mr. Liedata mentioned in Bugs thread it doesn work now and we know that Forced Evolution upgrade on Saboteur doesnt work either.

Let’s assume that works. The saboteur is a funny unit, but it’s too much slow and fragile (and the ability has a cost and a cool down to be activated). I don’t see anything bad making the Tarantula an urban combat sneaky unit.

I really dont like that Ion Storm ability, since when hes casting it he cannot move, shoot, rolling over enemy infantry. I would toss it to Ravager gunship instead, for example, so Manta can use Tiberium Enhancement

That’s a delicate question. Lightning bolt based weapons don’t have upgrade (same for Scrin AT turret which I want absolutely come back an upgradeable photon cannon and give my 1000 placeable lightning turret wherever I want. I want my repair drones come back as ability and from the Warp Sphere. It’s a nonsense that it cannot repair the vehicles. Manta is based upon lightning bolt, it cannot benefit from Tiberium Enhancement.

That is why I wanted for Manta to have Heavy forcefield instead of Light ones, which they now have, but the Generate Ion storm is T3 upgrade and it does not help him in any way, doesnt improve his statistics. With no early T2 upgrade like Laser Capacitors, Reactive armor, Tiberium Particle Beams, Sub-calibre rounds; the Razorback, Seeker, Ravager gunship,(Stormrider has Plasma missile AA splash damage upgrade now instead) must wait 'till T3, with having only Light shields. And the Particle Accelerator upgrade for Devourer,Disintegrators range is useless and just hampers the place(just like Tiberium Hive upgrade) for something better.

Yes, 100% agree.

Avatar personal upgrades are funny and original, but this isn’t an excuse to avoid any other improvement.

What I would like to see is something like this:

Moddb.com

This is a fully upgraded Avatar with both AT and the customized ability (Voice of Kane or the Napalm launcher). What I would like to change is the Tiberium beam and replace with a powerful Tier 3 laser upgrade for some reasons.

First of all because it can suit better for the Forgotten since their armament is most based on Tiberium.

Second because a common Tier 3 laser upgrade can grant several benefits. Basilisk can be really useful against vehicles and could give an extra overcharge for the Obelisk of light (an indirect upgrade for this defense). Scorpion tanks and laser turrets can have a benefit too.

Conversion beam. Problem is that it uses the same attack animation after Tiberium Enhancement upgrade: Buff the upgrade and dont care for active ability, searching for tiberium and running out of mana after 10 shots.

Call me greedy but I want both. I don’t care if the animation is the same (it can change), the conversion beam is an original feature and allows to Scrin to consume some Tiberium and a temporary extra firepower.

Devourer must be redone, literally. Move as T2, make it much better against tanks and structures and grant the extra firepower by the conversion beam. Support it with Razorback and it should be fine.

Decent = EMP warhead instead of that useless blast that disable the buggy itself.

Nod armor: Well, they dont specialize in it much, and kevlar is in terms of realism for infantry only.

This is what I mean. A special armor for light units that protects them mainly against infantry. Buggy is sturdier than the attack bike (and it’s cheaper too), it’s a nonsense to me.

Heheh, green beams on Harpy would be really strange. xD But the buggy has AA and it also shoots green stuff, I guess the only difference I would like to see is that green beams dont have AA

If you feel uneasy about the color of the particle beam, just change it. U.U

Flame tank as APC, would have AA when rocket troopers inside. Thats not all that much acceptable.

Why not? It’s an original version of Nod APC, versatile, sneaky, good for hit and run (underground), and very useful for a base assault. Distract the enemy with flames while you can unload your engineer to capture vital structures, or make a good transport for Commando.

I remember that someone suggested that Harvesters can be produced from Rafineries itself, instead from factories/warp sphere/machine shop, so theres that.

If this is possible, that someone is a genius. You have free space for one more unit slot and you can produce vehicles and harvesters at the same time.

Allow me to be more generous. Refineries should store up to 4000 credits and silos 6000. In late game, with a strong economy and several refineries, it’s a hassle spam silos around the base, and in some cases the space lacks. Let’s help all of non Scrin faction to store Tiberium more efficiently.

Montauk? I am in favor of 2 main Obelisk laser and particle beams against infantry. There must be a way to make it promotable and being able to produce even Tier 3 vehicles in the battlefield.

Maybe it should deflect EMP only when the unit has 100% of shield charged.

Yes and once absorbed the EMP the shield vanishes.

Gravity stabilizer obstructs build radius, due to fans reports, even after being destroyed/sold.

For this reason I want my old repair drones back for both ground and air units. Leave away some “experiments”.

Permanent, controllable, targetable, destroyable, if not even being able to build multitude of them.

Why not making it capturable too? For Scrin the impossible is possible.

A book? I want to see the CABAL resurrection and a fifth side made by cyborgs, robots and drones.

Edited by: FortressMaximus

Well, i think it is possible for refinery to train harvester, maybe carnius can code refinery to train it, just like how he can code to train nod cyborg unit from Shrine.

"My dogs better than yours, 'cause he gets ken-l-ration!"

Alright, ForMax ol' buddy, lets roll:

1.) Cranes: and roughly all and everything generally, lets not be so much generous or copycat of TWA or any other mod.

Decreasing build time little bit, why not, but price should be under 1200 credits. Theres a reason why MCV and mobile outposts are so vulnerable, low-healthed and pricey. Fast-fluid and dynamic gameplay, TE has that, and very nice, but lets not get overboard, high-priced high priority target as these, should not be counted as any other T1 units so easily.

Encourage fun with aerial transports, fun with walls, gates, initial early phase of game and some generosity for supportive units and structures as mobile outposts, growth accelators, stealth generators. Abilities like Sabouters booby trap price halved or even for free and some others (Like Ravager gunship Terror drone ability which is now for 300 credits and requires repair drone to be cleansed off = repair drone being necessity for Scrin anway), yes. I can agree with that, but do not be too generous.

We should not be equally so much generous toward silos and refineries. I dont know exactly how much refinery and silo can now hold of tiberium, but refinery comprises and serves literally as two silos. Single load of tiberium is 1400 and 2800 of blue one. We can get clue of that by checking article news of changes in TE 1.3 or 1.4, I guess. Do not let TE be too much similiar to Crossfire mod, for example, or any other.

We are but gently putting feathers(mostly, but on always xD), on the weights known as fragile and delicate house of cards gameplay balance. Also mostly, democracy of ostensibly seemingly ignorant masses xD of majority does not adapt to opinion of minority, but vice versa. And Carnius (and we should, I guess) work toward the satisfaction of majority)

Majority will also always keep reminding us of fanctions differences, uniqueness and traits: Thats why Nod outpost has Kanes voice, GDI stealth detection and newly also rockets, Scrin only tib. aura, but I guess that repair drones from TE 1.3 would be nice again.

T3 walkers husks capturing and Scrin repair drones + repair drones SP, were rendered as non-canonic and non lore-wise and got completely removed. Its relativelya pity, but it is so.

Thats why I repeatably written for years that I want only Warp sphere to have tib. aura (or repair drones), instead of 400 credits too much cheap PP and its T1 early upgrade requriring only Refinery and creating the most energy out of all factions ( not that good when GDI PP is expensive for 800, though its upgrade is only for 300 credits)

Yes, not everything from KW is evil, lot of things when redone, rebalanced and repurposed served as a nice inspiration. But thats all.

2.) GDI Tacitus Archive units:

I dont like all that much that Colossus is practically a two Titans cobbled together multiweapons platform of all GDI stuff. Railguns yes, but why does it have two gatling guns of Wolwerine? Either Reactive armor or Advanced fire control for its rockets. By the way that upgrade could use some changes and it supposedly decreases damage of Tempest MLRS. Instead of being proper counterweight for Nod Tiberium Warheads. (Scrin atleast of Seeker hover tank rockets-plasma discs has proper quality by default) Well, Colossus is rare,unique and imba unit by its nature, thats why it is in Archive.

Predator Mark II has a machine-gun exactly the same as GDI Harvester. That is a bummer, but with rocket launcher, its the same as with TWA and other mods, and Predator would end up being only a "small mammoth cut in half" again". Lets give him a proper Wolwerine mounted gun instead of Colossus. Just a dull tank with only Reactive armor would be boring when Scrin has Talos and Nod has Venom gunship on its place.

And I highly dissagree with any rockets for Titans. Tank destroyer is Falcon, Predator is there on a whim of majority of fans. Practically a redundant unit with no role.

Predator being only for 1000 credits, thus cheaper than Manta or Flame tank or Corruptor is already not all that good joke. Must be only a rare unit, without rockets. Otherwise the existence of Titans and Mammoths and MLRS would be pointless.

Like you said, TE is full of people TS that, TS this, but if they want just pay a homage to TS, than they should go play TSR mod.

I hear it always and from every side, uniqueness, uniqueness, uniquess, faction racial traits and differences. Too similiar to Scorpion MKII, even the Mutant Wardozer is highly unique, if only on a view.

3.) GDI Infantry: I would rather check on a Scrin, Nod and Forgotten and Mercenary and Tacitus Archive infantry first. JpT + Zone trooper combo with Wolwerine + Titan combo, backed up by missile troops, MLRS and Mammoths is simply universal and deals with everything. Wanna chokepoint? Slam it with foxholes, Orca Rig and Mammoths. Add Mammoth walker, Orcas and Kodiak with Firehawks with Support Powers; and Scrin victory fleet with Leviathan and Conqueror can go cry in the corner.

Non-clearable garrison of foxholes: OP and probably not even possible within game engine. GDI basic infantry should not be nerfed, but not buffed either.

Unlike Disc thrower and Snipers, those are somewhat lacking behind.

Scrin Razorback-like infantry squad, the ones from the mr. M0nkfish's suggestions?

Moddb.com

Interceptors and Archons and/or repurposed or redone Stalwarts and Scrin basic infantry with Shock troopers.

Well, I had a discussions with M0nkfish that Shock trooper can have two weapons, and can be a clear garrisoner, without AA and that Stalwarts would be redone into image of missile/rockets troops. I also though of option were Disintegrators are T2 clear garrisoners, also of option that instead of miserable Buzzer + Disintegrator combo, the Scrin basic infantry could consist of Visceroids and/or Contaminators. But as always, majority of fans will tell you, what they always say. Uniquness, racial faction traits,etc.. "You got yer' english speaking Stalwart cyborgs, so shut yer' trap".. Trying to find any proper quality in insects and bugged bugs is hollow task. And they should not be too similiar of now; stealthed, having EMP ability, ultra-fast Razorback-like shoooting without AA Eradicators.

4.) GDI Vulcan anti-infantry defense:

Minority adapts to majority, not the other way, my dear ForMax. All Anti-vehicle defenses are for 1200 and AA defenses for 800 credits.

Not only that GDI defenses can shoot over walls and has AP upgrade with increased range and 50% plus damage, but its also 100 credits cheaper. Hell not, in face of that Scrin Hive bugged stupid abomination. 500 credits. for every factions AP defense is too small.

5.) GDI EMP: EMP is useless vs Cyborgs. All cyborgs and all infantry is immune to EMP (including Decimator whos looks really rather like a vehicle, bigger, larger and sturdier than Titan,heheh)

And yes, Scrin shields are supposed to do exactly that as you said. Deflect just a single EMP and be exhausted, requiring to wait 90 or 120 seconds to be recharged. Shields are so quickly exahusted by the most pathetic gunfire, that there cannot be any mistake that Scrin does not have any so-called "EMP immunity".

Firehawks EMP are screwing around all your defenses, vehicles and epic vehicles, your tech structures, denying you support powers and your superweapon.

Highly dangerous unit and 30% decreased damage is relatively small price to pay for passive EMP capabilites of 4 or 5 bomb shells.

Its old highly effective vs anti-vehicle and structure bombs were taken off, taken off also from Vertigo and seemingly given to Banshee.

Anti-vehicle weapon as EMP cannot ever be effectively used, nor it could possibly do any damage to enemy infantry. EMP mines of Goliath APC also does not do anything really, except fancy animation effect, to enemy infantry.

2 full squadrons of Firehawks without EMP can destroy Superweapon or topple Mammoth walker. Well, 1 squadron of Banshees can do the same, so debilitating anything with EMP is a unique way for Firehawks. Those who lack in quality here are Stormriders and Orcas and anti-vehicle capability of Devastators when compared to Cobra and Juggernaut, not Firehawks. But yeah, its damage can use some buff, but have you seen Falcon with shockwave warheads vs defenses and other structures? They are pretty scary. With damage of Banshees, with EMP and Stratofighter ability would make a real monsters out of Firehawks.

EMP Disc throwers in APC sounds good, but lot of mods and KW does already exactly the same, so giving EMP shockwave warheads to normal Orcas instead, sounds really better. and passive stealth detection with it. xD Orca bomber carpet bombs together with EMP at the same time: simply said, never ever. Redundant and as long shall Firehawk or Orca have EMP, no other GDI air unit or any other GDI unit should have yet another EMP capability.

If someone is supposed to be "fearsome base destroyer" than its Juggernaut. Well, spotted bombarding and normal shooting of Juggernaut would be nice having EMP.

But carpet bombing of Orca bomber + EMP is really too much. We have Shockwave bombardment SP for that. Though, again Juggernaut would also be little bit overteping, yet he atleast does not fly and does not make incredible radius slaughter of all infantry and structures and of everything in single fly-by.

Yet, what with Orca bomber? Giving it some AA instead? No. Changing everything back how it was in TE 1.3 and 1.4 is..not all that bad I admit, but it is really a way of future? Everything changes and TE with it. What about Orca Bomber being able to spawn 4 smallest Orca strikers, just like a smaller version of PAC? IDK. But nothing should become too of a big threat for everything in ground, that equals to a game ender and the same nerf as Banshee and Cobra needs.

Heheh, Carnius had exactly opposite opinion: Snipers are the only GDI stealth unit,so they should be removed, since stealth is not a GDI doctrine. Doctrine, uniqueness and racial traits, yeah, yeah.

Anti-vehicle Snipers? Only over my dead body, or if you will remove Mammoths and/or Titans, missile troopers, MLRS, Orcas, Falcons, Zone troopers. EMP, yes, slow one-squad member clear garrisoning just as Umagon Mutant sniper does, yes, spawning visceroids from Toxin trooper snipers, yes, but any anti-vehicle capability from stealthed infantry is a slap in the face of Nod Stealth tanks.

5.) If Shock troopers would end up as T3 with some EMP or anything, that they can hardly be inferior to a single Jetpack trooper.

Them being atleast to ride in any Scrin APC is all I need. Sorry but, Flame tank APC, would be equally weird as having a Corruptor for APC to Shock troopers. xD

Bringing them to same quality of Seeker damage attack power, attack speed and range is enough for me. And fixed Blink pack. Despite their need for quality I need to cross the line between them and the Zone troopers/Zone defenders(Zone raiders) with their jetpack, so I need the tech tier of Shock troopers lowered, not elevated.

Supposedly the equal in comparison of Zone troopers are the anti-structure,anti-personnel Stalwarts. Simply said, I am more interested in Scrin T1,5, T2 and T2,5 infantry, than in T3.

6.) Yes, would be nice if Saboteur and the Forced Evolution upgrade would be both buffed up and working. Scrin Assimilator has his awsome Phase out and had the Blink pack exploited by computer AI before. GDI engineer is healing by default, just like Mammoth walker and Zone commando, yet still could use some movement speed buff or upgrade or any capability how to gain bigger rank, just like Saboteur. I always wondered why they are not atleast in squad of two, even if their supposed nature were always "all-sneaky-like" and inconspicious.

7.) Avatar were said in that image to be able to crush light and medium vehicles and has his +50% damage anti-vehicle Tiberium Beams by default.

Maybe screw his personal self-upgrades, give it all to him (except Voice of Kane) by default(Napalm launcher without clear garrison) and increase his price from 2000 to 2400 or 2500 to 2600 credits. Roughly as KW Purifier Warmech and the Voice of Kane can be "one time do" for all Avatars.

Yap, exactly, No pain, big gain.

Dont be greedy and selfish on Quadpods. I would prefer supporting my Mantas with Shock troopers and Seekers, repelling the annoying flies known as JpTs and Harpies, instead of Razorbacks supporting Devourers. I prefer relliable turtle steamroller fair and square, nice and tight, just you and me on flat plains, attitude, before all that "daggers and cloak" fekking and playing around. What good the Conversion beam will be for you, when you are just easily harrased by garrisoned missile troopers and JpTs? and overpowered,overthrown, overwhelmed by more relliable or more numerous vehicles.

Yeah, I certainly want to massively buff and upgrade Basilisks and Devourers and maybe even that of Falcons damage and attack range.

Dont forget on must improve Avatars, Juggernaut and Quadpods turning rate and attack speed. If needed Avatar could be able to outrange even Quadpod.

Hell, the range of all defenses could upgraded like when buffed by single Basilisk, so it all could fit in together.

8.) Buildable Wormhole X-treme with out own Scrin Stargate SG1 team tv series. Well, of course it would be capturable and all that, but looking as GDI captures it, holy fucking, thats crazy .-) Suddenly stops working when EMP'ed or when in Stasis shield. We both know very well that if game engine would permit something like that, without game crash, everone would already have it.

Man, I wish so much that all that our piffling and driveling around would come to fruition and come handy and prove useful somewhere, sometime to anyone. xD

and big hurray to mr. aisharp with that fancy anime avatar icon xD and his harvesters from refinery.

Ok, I’m free from some real life stuff, so I can discuss with you all. Maybe I am one of the eldest (in terms of age) members of TE community, oh well, whatever…

I think if an idea is used in another mods/expansions/whatever, this means it’s a worthwhile idea and can be implemented here as well. “Copycat” may sound bad, after all there is no profit in a mod. There is no violation of copyrights (as far I know) so modder can share ideas if they work.

Decreasing build time little bit, why not, but price should be under 1200 credits.

This is fine for me. A crane with a build time of 10 seconds and a price of 1200 is perfect for me.

The outpost (surveyor/emissary/explorer) should cost 750 because can be also used as “support turret” (all of them with repair drones, one has AT/AA missiles, the other has the “Voice of Kane” and the other a small EMP warhead that can target only one vehicle at once).

Encourage fun with aerial transports, fun with walls, gates, initial early phase of game and some generosity for supportive units and structures as mobile outposts, growth accelators, stealth generators. Abilities like Sabouters booby trap price halved or even for free and some others (Like Ravager gunship Terror drone ability which is now for 300 credits and requires repair drone to be cleansed off = repair drone being necessity for Scrin anway)

100% agreed.

We should not be equally so much generous toward silos and refineries. I dont know exactly how much refinery and silo can now hold of tiberium, but refinery comprises and serves literally as two silos

Actually a silo stores 3000 credits, a refinery barely 4000, it cannot sustain 2 loads of blue Tiberium. I suggest to make a silo able to store 6000 and the refinery 8000. This will help a lot in late game, when the base is big and takes spaces to have power plants, factories and airfields. Space in a base is a limited resource and is always required.

Another nice (and bastard I admit it) feature could be a rework on the GDI Torpedo ability. Instead of damage Tiberium based structures, it should destroy Tiberium inside refineries/silos (one of GDI purposes is the destruction of Tiberium). In this way it can wipe out (or reduce drastically) the enemy’s economy. For example, if the torpedo is fired upon 3 fully loaded silos, it can vaporize 9000 credits (50% on a total of 18000). Against a Scrin refinery, it can eliminate the half of the whole enemy economy (and it’s fair considered that Scrin don’t need silos and can store infinite credits). It would be so funny to use it (and can be easily countered, just spread the silos, at max it can take out 3000 credits, which is the exact cost of the ability).

Also mostly, democracy of ostensibly seemingly ignorant masses xD of majority does not adapt to opinion of minority, but vice versa. And Carnius (and we should, I guess) work toward the satisfaction of majority)

I don’t want to be mean, but sometimes masses are really ignorant. O_O And when you prove your points but you are against the majority, you will take insults and endless flames. The solution isn’t to satisfy the majority, but to make the right thing, which isn’t always easy.

T3 walkers husks capturing and Scrin repair drones + repair drones SP, were rendered as non-canonic and non lore-wise and got completely removed. Its relatively a pity

Who has asked to remove these nice features? These should come back.

Yes, not everything from KW is evil, lot of things when redone, rebalanced and repurposed served as a nice inspiration. But thats all.

It may be more if used wisely. For example the purifying flame upgrade. It’s beautiful and would help the flame tank against mass AT infantry and turrets.

Railguns yes, but why does it have two gatling guns of Wolwerine? Either Reactive armor or Advanced fire control for its rockets.

I’m in favor of reactive armor.

That is a bummer, but with rocket launcher, its the same as with TWA and other mods, and Predator would end up being only a "small mammoth cut in half" again".

No, it’s a simple concept art inspiration. Predator with machine gun is redundant, but it can be used as AT Tier1 unit with AT missiles. I know that other mods use this feature, but it’s official concept art there is anything bad about it. Speaking about concept art. I am surprised about how many good ideas and good looking units are scrapped. It’s a pity.

Tank destroyer is Falcon, Predator is there on a whim of majority of fans. Practically a redundant unit with no role.

Ok, but what kind of unique feature can use the Titan in order to distinguish from mammoth tank and can be used in late game too? You said mine sweeping but how this feature can be installed on a walker?

Otherwise the existence of Titans and Mammoths and MLRS would be pointless.

I am not that drastic. Predator is an early solution but cannot replace the Tempest because missiles are medium ranged and only for ground targets. Wire guided TOW missiles are simple AT weapons, that’s all.

Like you said, TE is full of people TS that, TS this, but if they want just pay a homage to TS, than they should go play TSR mod.

I hear it always and from every side, uniqueness, uniqueness, uniquess, faction racial traits and differences. Too similiar to Scorpion MKII, even the Mutant Wardozer is highly unique, if only on a view.

These words should be impressed with red letters.

Non-clearable garrison of foxholes: OP and probably not even possible within game engine. GDI basic infantry should not be nerfed, but not buffed either.

I don’t think it would be OP (maybe not possible but that’s another story), after all, it would act like a standard bunker.

If a unit can be better (not overkill) then let it be. I was thinking about the Black Hand elite upgrade, a nice feature (instead of that silly “engage airborne infantry”) can be the propaganda/boost morale. What makes the brotherhood unique is the verb of Kane that make unit more efficient. Since the “regular” voice of Kane increase the firepower by 10%, in this case “boosted” infantry are faster and have a higher rate of fire, and they can be competitive against infantry with higher armor and firepower. Power of propaganda.

Minority adapts to majority, not the other way, my dear ForMax. All Anti-vehicle defenses are for 1200 and AA defenses for 800 credits.

Is that bad having cheap turrets for everyone, considering a new Scrin AP turret and the successful coming back of the (upgradeable) photon cannon?

GDI EMP: EMP is useless vs Cyborgs. All cyborgs and all infantry is immune to EMP (including Decimator whos looks really rather like a vehicle, bigger, larger and sturdier than Titan,heheh)

I think they shouldn’t be immune to EMP. They have several advantages, they can heal in Tiberium, via repair drones, in the sanctuary and their armor is higher than any regular infantry. Since they are mechanized (cybernetics), they should have a special weak point. Decimator seems a sort of robot, but it’s Tacitus Archive unit, it doesn’t count.

Firehawks EMP are screwing around all your defenses, vehicles and epic vehicles, your tech structures, denying you support powers and your superweapon.

Highly dangerous unit and 30% decreased damage is relatively small price to pay for passive EMP capabilites of 4 or 5 bomb shells.

Ok, but they aren’t suppose to have that kind of role. They must not be AT unit. Orca should be the AT air unit for GDI, for this reason the EMP should be available only as upgrade and only for Orca. Firehawk is supposed to be the surgical bomber with the surprise factor. As they are now, they are against nature.

Those who lack in quality here are Stormriders and Orcas and anti-vehicle capability of Devastators when compared to Cobra and Juggernaut.

Indeed. Orca is supposed to be AT and AT only. Not that insane “I decimate everything unit” because that OP minigun (it must be removed) that makes it invincible against everything, absolutely against nature and redundant with Jetpack.

Stormrider should be more focused against light AA while the PAC should be more effective against heavy AA. Devastator? I don’t know but it seems quite fearsome…

EMP is supposed to be good against vehicles and structures. Infantry should be immune (except cyborgs). Mines used by Goliath should be indeed reworked.

Juggernaut with EMP… no thanks. Just increase the effectiveness against infantry, increase the area damage and the overall firepower (how can be a triple turret inferior in firepower against the single turret of the Cobra?). If you want to make it able to crush light vehicles then fine. Not necessary but nice.

Orca bomber is supposed to be a bomber. Bomber = base destroyer.

Snipers are the only GDI stealth unit, so they should be removed, since stealth is not a GDI doctrine.

You know that each side has stealth detectors for a reason. Each faction must have something stealth in order to be detected, not only the brotherhood.

So what about to add one more man in the sniper team? I know the heavy snipers are overkill, that was a provocation.

Them being atleast to ride in any Scrin APC is all I need. Sorry but, Flame tank APC, would be equally weird as having a Corruptor for APC to Shock troopers

Nah. I don’t think so. It could be a nice and funny unit to use. It can solve lots of Nod problems and can save a space for the Montauk in the vehicle list.

Let’s be honest. Scarab APC is horrible. There isn’t any need for an unit like this.

Engineers cannot be in squad. I guess the game doesn’t allow it.

What good the Conversion beam will be for you, when you are just easily harrased by garrisoned missile troopers and JpTs? and overpowered,overthrown, overwhelmed by more relliable or more numerous vehicles.

You said it all. Spam is not a strategy. Add some unique features is always a nice add on. Everything that can be better, must be better.

Falcon is a good tank destroyer. The only thing I want about it is an armor upgrade for all GDI light vehicle (to separate the reactive armor for heavy vehicles), because at the moment Falcon is simply too fragile to be a GDI vehicle.

Dont forget on must improve Avatars, Juggernaut and Quadpods turning rate and attack speed. If needed Avatar could be able to outrange even Quadpod.

Hell, the range of all defenses could upgraded like when buffed by single Basilisk, so it all could fit in together.

Absolutely yes.

Let’s talk about Montauk. If the game doesn’t allow promotion on structures that “became” vehicles, then let’s be always a vehicle.

I’ve thought about 3 expensive ways to be the ultimate support unit.

• Deploys a couple of veteran scorpions, buggies and attack bikes.
• Deploys couple of veteran flame tanks, basilisks and phantoms (they cannot be promoted, so whatever)
• Deploys couple of veteran Avatars, Stealth tanks and Cobra.

The player will spend a lot of moneys, but it can have a bunch of high quality vehicles in few time and can support the Nod war machine in the battlefield with utmost efficiency.

And… why the subterranean strike doesn’t give veteran cyborgs and veteran black hands?

Hello, wish ya' good luck with RL, nice to see you back. Hmm, elders. xD You are above 30 years old? Heheh, CNC3 were released in 2007, so. Well we can almost say that we are here almost as long as CNC3 is. :-) I see it like it was yesterday. I installed TE 1.0 and few days after that the TE 1.2 were released. xD

Carnius is always original and likes originality and likes a sets of unique things for everything and every faction- hence there was the weird organic baloon carrying a bunker Floater xD

The moment TE will become too similiar to anything else will be the moment when quality and popularity of TE will severely diminish. Nor would Carnius ever allow that to happen. Atleast not knowingly and voluntarily.

1.)

Cranes and Outposts:

I wanted to say should NOT be under 1200 credits. Just now I and mr. CABAL075 were doing a post about Nod Emmisary in TE wikia. xD High strategic value units are always fragile,vulnerable and expensive. Like MCV's and Drone ships for 3500(3000) and despite that are very very slow and vulnerable. Just like mobile outposts are. Theres a reason why its 1500 credits. RTS and proper strategy game is always supposed to be a challenge for a disciplined sharp and analytic mind and not a pathetic click-fest of those asian starcraft morons. Dynamic gameplay is one thing. Superfast, supercheap spamfest frenetic action entirely other. While Crossfire mod is great with all that and having all support powers for free, it has a serious non-strategic value problems. We cannot allow the TE to decline in its high esteem.

Engrave this in stone, but compromise is probably always required: Good compromise will often not fully satisfy either of sides. I were somewhat naive. Can there even be really something as a "Gain with (almost atleast xD) no pain" ?

2.) Silos and GDI SP Terraforming Torpedo.

Yap, we can increase the amount of tiberium which human(and mutant) factions Refineries and Silos holds, but, not all that much.

I would compromise for Refinery two loads of blue tiberium (2x2800=5600) and round it to 6000 credits. (I would atleast expect to hold it 3 loads of normal tiberium 3x1400= 4200)

No, 5 loads of common tiberium would be best for Refinery=7000

Silos: let us increase it from 3000 to 3 loads of tiberium = 5600.

Should be Scrin advantage of infinite tiberium amount able to be held in single one of their Refinery for its player ( and its allies) eternal? Easy, change it from infinite to 15 000 or 20 000 tiberium per Refinery. Or to 50 000. Any amount under 100 000 credits and we have a compromise. Its still an advantage for Scrin Refinery, but no longer an infinite one. There is a Scrin sound file for "Silos are full". So I see no problem in that gameplace balance. Big gain, practically no pain. xD

Oh, Torpedo destroying enemys harvested credits thats a bitchslap in a face indeed xD Sounds like a low blow, pretty unfair and OP, but its a nice idea. :-)

Destroying half of Scrin economy just because they (still and atleast for now) have infinite tiberium storage is too OP. But we can build on your idea upon mine and develop it further. Once again, problem is if it is possible within game engine. Reminds me of old good RA1 Allied Thiefs: Cnc.wikia.com

Husk capturing were removed by Carnius himself and after lively disscusion, of this time, knowledgeable and experienced ol' sports veteran commanders fellas, our friends in arms, fans, due to story lore wise canon reasons. I dont remember it much, its been long time and so many many comments before. It were done for a really important reason(s), believe me, I remember atleast that.

Well, KW purifiyng flame upgrade were, atleast for me personally, not all that sensible and it looked ugly. Blue tiberium flamer? Weird. We have our Mutant Stalker Freezer Commando gun, so.. thats that.

3.) Reactive armor, Predator and Titan:

Yeah, old Predator EA concept of "mini-mammoth" with single rocket pod launcher. But how you will explain a missile which does not have AA ? Unless Predator would be just throwing the Orca rockets around.

Quality of best T1 tank except Titan + anti-infantry quality of Wolwerine firepower should suffice for Predator. No fear of infantry. no fear of mines. What more is needed? Grenade launcher instead? EMP Warheads instead of Railguns? Or even having both?! Thats badass. xD

If not for Titan then give "clear mines" ability as part of Reactive armor upgrade for Goliath APC(should apply to it and GDI APC, could be be for 800 credits again) and Predator mkII.

Specialty of Titan is that it shoots over walls and its a walker.. sturdy, bigger quality and longer range that standard MBT's walker. And the only T1 unit capable of stomping down (but seriously only after Reactive armor upgrade) other T1 and light units ( with consideration for harvesters, hover units)

Technically, Titan is already T2 quality and price unit. Put in practice, most superior T1 unit in game, but with very well known weaknesses. Dont have much credits and T3? Instead of Mammoth, use Titan and MLRS combo. If Titan would be in need of bigger range, faster attack rate and movement speed than otherwise all superior Mammoth, then we can provide it for him, either via upgrades or by default, just like any other unit which needs to be viable and usefull even in T3 mid and late game phase. Thats why we are here, eh? Discussing gameplay balance. That is why I want Tiberium power pack much greater movement speed and attack speed + some armor for Attack bike and the Tiberium Warheads, not only to provide +50% damage and +33% missile speed but also greater range. If it will be so fast and will ourtrange your Titan, Wolwerine, Orca, etc; then it will survive and bring about heavy damage upon enemy.

Nod Flame tank: Yes, it needs lots of help. Better reaction, attack move, better range, rotating turret fire,(like the old Flame tank) movement speed, armor and health or even heals while idle by default and/or via upgrades and cheaper price. But as dedicated anti-structure, anti-infantry clear garrisoner specialist and with our help a great support even when it comes to anti-vehicle capabilites for Scorpion. But as always, first line unit will have big casualties, no way around that.

Would be nice to fix the Venom (Tacitus unit) properly into anti-vehicle gunship roughly as Orca, instead of that napalm rockets weirdness and non-working laser upgrade. I would, for example, change it into flying Scorpion or flying Basilisk. or even flying old beam cannon with its joint lasers. That would a an ultitmate perfect combo- dig in Scorpions, flame tanks on flanks, Harpies and Venoms above. Yeah and of course, Venom should be special, so no AA for it.

4.) Defenses:

Scrin defenses needs big help, except of AA Missile battery. Thats currently the best AA defense in game. All other about them have been already said. So theres plenty of work ahead of them.

Nod: are still spamming their defenses, using the turret nodes, having cheap damage upgrades + Obelisks supported by Basilisks. Their SAM site needs help.

GDI: They shoot over walls, Sub-calibre rounds increases damage for fekking 50% damage + 10% range, so no cheaper Vulcan turret, arguably currently best anti-infantry defense in game. Go to price of 600 credits and equally long build time as everyone else. Bad boy and naughty defense you are. xD I must say that Sonic emmiter is very weird defense with friendly fire, should be able to shoot over walls. Maybe has radius blast, shoots faster than Obelisk but weirdly seems to have maybe relatively smaller anti-vehicle damage.

Mutants: Suprise us, we have seen some nice things.

Firehawks: If you will change them back how they were, than they are no different than old Vertigo without stealth. You will add 30% anti-structure and anti-vehicle damage back and deny the role for Orca bomber or for Juggernaut. What other thing they should be doing other than bombing and destroying enemy Mammoths, etc. and other T3 units, when they can disabling everything around with EMP? What I want to say is that they always were and always will be the AT unit as well. Fighter-bomber just like Banshee and roughly as Stormrider, but are unique having EMP. Maybe they can aquire EMP after by applying the EMP Shockwave Warheads, which shall also increase their damage. I dont exactly grasp how and why they are " againts nature" now? Unite the AutoInjector and Scanner packs into one upgrade or throw away the Sensor pods and we have place for ECM container, Stratofighter booster and even EMP warheads both and all together.

Orca: In fact, I have seen mods where Orca has auto-gun by default and is shooting rockets and gun both at the same time. I dont like Orca for not having passive stealth detection and low range of its rockets and relatively small anti-strucure damage. Even with guns activated, anti-air infantry (except for Shock troopers as always), Harpies, Stormriders, Seekers, Razorbacks and JtPS and MLRS, even while taking heavy damage shall most of the time just die together with Orcas if little bit lucky.

Rockets shot speed, range, movement speed, even damage can be improved. Or even allow the rockets to be used as AA.

And finally yes, Montauk can spawn different units than just T1. Why not maybe even Tacitus units or Cyborgs, Reapers, Cyborg Hijackers, Tarantula drones, Phantoms, Black Hands, Shadows, or even both type of Commandos. But not a veteran ones, Montauk is not a Support power but a game engine limited unit spawner-mobile war factory. + other things already mentioned about Montauk.

Yap. Veteran status for Subterranean strike units by default. And would be nice to see old Reinforcements Support powers of basic T1 infantry instead of overpriced Snipers and Shadows. I wonder if we will have a parachutes of veteran Brutes and Ascended veteran squad for Mutants. Or even a parachute of or via Hind arrival of Tiberian fiends :-D

"What is it, prvivate"? Either I am mad, but I see a parachuting Tiberian fiends and one of them is watching us from.. an organic baloon of Tiberium Floater, sir... :-)

The other ones are riding Reclaimer, humvees, Mastodons and piloting Hinds. Makes you nostalgic for Nod and Scrin huh? xD

As always, sorry for my late. I was born in 1981 and this year I’ll be 35. I’m elder than Carnius (I was 14 when I’ve seen the first C&C).

Real life is a permanent exam, you must always study in order to be constantly “updated”, if you know what I mean.

Carnius is always original and likes originality and likes a sets of unique things for everything and every faction- hence there was the weird organic balloon carrying a bunker Floater

Not always. Some ideas come from TS, some from KW, some from concept art, and some others come from his mind. Please don’t make me talk about “Baba Jaga the horrible and overkill jellyfish”. When I’ll post my Forgotten faction list, the Floater will be banished forever and ever. U_U

About cranes/outposts: you know we are saying exactly the same thing? I wasn’t oriented about a price discount, but 1200 for a crane is fine for me. What I am really concerned is about the build time which should be the same of the power plant. As we have sais before, all the outpost must have repair drone and unique features. I was thinking about the price of 750 for the outpost (not the crane) in order to incentivize the base expansion, nothing else.

Starcraft? Korean Gosu players? Don’t make me talk about how many big mistakes make Blizzard in order to “balance” the game. Really, it’s pissing me off.

Spamfest is a plague. For this reason I want each unit/structure/ability/upgrade useful and worthwhile, because a good and wise player must use everything (not spam 1 or 2 units) in order to achieve victory.

So we agree that refineries and silo’s capacity must be drastically increased.

Oh, Torpedo destroying enemys harvested credits thats a bitchslap in a face indeed xD Sounds like a low blow, pretty unfair and OP, but its a nice idea. :-)

It’s not unfair and OP, it’s strategic. Nod chemical missile (which the chemical blast should last a bit longer in order to destroy a factory) costs 3000 and can destroy a structure and turn allied infantry into Visceroids. Scrin Meteo Strike costs 3000 and should bombard an area destroying structures and leaving annoying Tiberium crystals (so the player must remove then else it cannot rebuild). GDI Torpedo doesn’t do ANY physical damage, but does an economical damage. This is absolutely fair and square. You spend 3000? Make an equivalent damage of 3000 (at least) to the enemy. This ability is highly counterable. Just spread your refineries and silos and the damage is minimal.

Zorro thief? Funny unit. It was “merged” into RA2 spy.

Husk capturing were removed by Carnius himself and after lively disscusion, of this time, knowledgeable and experienced ol' sports veteran commanders fellas, our friends in arms, fans, due to story lore wise canon reasons. I dont remember it much, its been long time and so many many comments before. It were done for a really important reason(s), believe me, I remember atleast that.

It’s not that I don’t believe you, but I must get at least a valid reason to remove such a nice feature. I don’t see any imbalance if all the sides leave husks and all the side can recapture the units with half of the health and the “promotions” vanished. Really: I need to understand.

Well, KW purifiyng flame upgrade were, atleast for me personally, not all that sensible and it looked ugly. Blue tiberium flamer? Weird. We have our Mutant Stalker Freezer Commando gun, so.. thats that.

It’s not weird. It’s realistic and appropriate. Indeed in real life the most powerful and dangerous flames are blue. In space, the hottest and more brilliant stars are blue.

En.wikipedia.org

En.wikipedia.org

Same thing for predator.

Yeah, old Predator EA concept of "mini-mammoth" with single rocket pod launcher. But how you will explain a missile which does not have AA?

The explanation is quite simple, use the wire guided missiles.

En.wikipedia.org

as you can read, they are specific AT missiles.

I prefer to be loyal to the concept (correct me if I’m wrong, but often concept units are far better than the final versions) so a 1000 cost tank destroyer with railgun and reactive armor is a nice integration. The big brother Titan remains the badass one, and the small Predator does the rest of the job for a fair cost. The machine gun makes it inappropriate and more fragile if its armor cannot be upgraded.

If not for Titan then give "clear mines" ability as part of Reactive armor upgrade

But also Mammoth will benefit too, making the same as the Titan. Same for crush lighter vehicles after upgrade. This means that a standard Mammoth is not able to do it. That’s a nonsense. Titan is not a race car, some basic micro and the enemy vehicles can evade from the crush. The shoot over walls ability at the moment is reasonable, so be it.

That is why I want Tiberium power pack much greater movement speed and attack speed + some armor for Attack bike and the Tiberium Warheads, not only to provide +50% damage and +33% missile speed but also greater range.

This will benefit also SAM turret (bring back the hub logic for this turret too. Now it’s poor and silly). The attack bike must be upgraded. More armor is indispensable (and the Kevlar armor is great as benefit for all Nod light vehicles).

Nod Flame tank: Yes, it needs lots of help. Better reaction, attack move, better range, rotating turret fire,(like the old Flame tank) movement speed, armor and health or even heals while idle by default and/or via upgrades and cheaper price. But as dedicated anti-structure, anti-infantry clear garrisoner specialist and with our help a great support even when it comes to anti-vehicle capabilites for Scorpion. But as always, first line unit will have big casualties.

True. Carnius must realize that this tank needs turrets badly.

Here’s a nice picture to take inspiration:

Moddb.com

Make it benefit from the Tiberium Power Pack and purifying flame, give the transport ability and you’ll get the ultimate, perfect assault and support unit. Aesthetically beautiful.

Would be nice to fix the Venom (Tacitus unit) properly into anti-vehicle gunship roughly as Orca.

Make a brand new unit. A stealth AT interceptor. Maybe the AT laser (with high frequency laser upgrade), or maybe a downgraded version of Banshee AT plasma beam. The name? Sentinel? Black Ghost? Specter? Eclipse? Viper?

Pre13.deviantart.net

Bad boy and naughty defense you are. xD

Yes I am. I am not a turtler, but I always like cheap and effective base defenses, especially to close blind spots and choke points.

Firehawks: If you will change them back how they were, than they are no different than old Vertigo without stealth.

Not at all. Firehawks are excellent heavy AA units and must be precision strikers against structures. Leave the AT role to Orca. In this way you won’t have redundant units. Firehawks shouldn’t be effective against tanks.

The Orca bomber and Juggernaut are massive anti structure units, they aren’t “surgical” as Firehawks, because their greater area damage and affects more than one structure. Firehawks with Stratofighter are intended to destroy on tactical structure per time, like superweapons.

What I want to say is that they always were and always will be the AT unit as well.

No, they weren’t because even the slowest ground unit can avoid the Firehawk bomb if it’s moving. Only static targets were affected. If they were AT units, then Orca didn’t have a role.

Orca must be AT and AT only. Fast with passive stealth detection (and sensors) by default. Ok for shockwave grenades and ECM as upgrades (so it can decimate enemy vehicles without retaliation), but it must be vulnerable against AA aircrafts, AA infantry and all light AA units.

I prefer to move the hijacker to Forgotten as special infantry rather than a cyborg. They can get advanced enemy units stealing them.

Montauk should add as “Fist of Nod”, in other words as a mobile war factory. Since it’s not possible because the inability to be promoted, then give 3 kinds of reinforcements. I guess the “concept” is respected and the player has high quality army (but expensive) in a reasonable time.

Commandos must be trained separately, like other build limit 1 unit.

Reinforcements Support powers of basic T1 infantry instead of overpriced Snipers and Shadows.

Why don’t mix the infantry squadrons instead? Snipers and Shadows must be drastically improved. For example Shadow and Black hand, Cyborg squad and Reaper, Snipers and Grenadier, etc… some more variety isn’t bad.

Edited by: FortressMaximus

Holy shit, ForMax, you must have like two kids already maybe and mid age crisis doing..bad things on you.Heheh, oh my, feeling so old. :-)

Ok, senpai, lets roll. :-D, Normal old Floater still must stay for out friend Ahrimansiah as a part of tiberium wild life and the Mutants shall have their, tamed redone "kirov" like organic airship from it.

Nope, as I explained, if you want add a strategic value and chill the spamming hotshots, then the mobile outposts can have only small adjustments. Certainly not to go with price under 1200. And certainly not to go with build time under 15-12 seconds. That would kill the high priority strategic and vulnerable value of mobile outposts and mcv's(drone ships) as I said. Dynamic gameplay balance is not a merciful and benevolent god of tits and wine. Its a god of disciplined and focused analytitc mind of great tactical and strategic fast decisions of a good RTS player in a damn good RTS game. Add a feather gently, remove a feather even more gently, but dont start throwing everything around and upside-down. Thats what I think. Feathers, ForMax, a gentle touch on a fragile tall house of cards, standing proud while wind is blowing. That is a gameplay balance. Encourage players yes, but the gameplay balance is not our bitch.

Dont know what is " gosu".

Torpedo, SP for 3000 not doing any damage? Thats quite unique. Still think that doing such a dick move to enemy players economy, even while not doing any damage, instead of destroying his refinery in one shot, is little bit overboard. Unforseen and unpredictable and unprecended situation. Thats what it would become. Its original but up to debate, beyond me. Maybe something what Mutants could use.

I agree that storage amount of silos can hold could be increased, but I dont really like the word "drastically".

Scrin units due to a first lore and story wise canon theory, which I call the "Scrin Organic theory" means that all Scrin units are organic or more likely bio-mechanical and techno-organic ( H.R Geiger "Aliens" style). All Scrin vehicles are non-piloted, have only tiberium inside and maybe are, maybe are not controlled via hive mind.(Zerg, Tyranids, etc.) So you will destroy the leg of Quadpod and you want to capture it. Well, there are no interface hoverboards and computers or even a cockpit cabin inside Scrin walkers. Just a tiberium is inside all Scrin vehicles, units, everything. the rest, structures, legs, etc, armor, is made from component materials. The very idea that Scrin Assimilator is inside your Avatar or Juggeranaut driving it and that the Scrin repaired a leg of your walker is absurd. applies vice versa as well, of course. So thats why. That what you see in GDI intelligence database, that the Scrin Tripod were captured, is a nonsense.

I am, or rather I were, of course, the big advocate of the second theory, that the Scrin are highly technologically advanced race of great scientific miracles, and piloted vehicles. That was a past, now I am working, atleast in my mind on a third, unifying and seemingly ostensibly compromised most perfect theory, but that is a very long story for another time.

We have blue tiberium flamer on Mutant Crushers and they are using blue tiberium for their improved warheads. And Nod is using normal flames and normal tiberium.

Second upgrade only for Black Hands? Flame tanks can relatively have Drilling dozers blades only as an ability and the Tiberium power pack upgrade, but do they need it? They need everything else except more attack damage. xD Nope, the ghost of KW needs to sleep undisturbed. And we have Toxin trooper snipers instead of Chemical trooper in Tacitus where they dont mix with Black Hand clear garrisoners. I really dont feel a need to fill a place for precious upgrades by this.

It doesnt matter how you will call the AT-wired missiles on Predator. They will still be missiles, the only missiles without AA in the entire game. Pls..NO..more.. missiles...for.. GDI. Give them twin-railgun turret, maybe even KW ability to temporarily increase attack speed or whatever, but more missile, especially not for GDI, even if it looks good on concept. Unless you will remove missiles from MLRS and/or Mammoth tank, Mammoth walker, etc.

Just why should be a rare GDI MBT same as Generals GLA Scorpion tank? Just because it looks good, I dont want to wrap my head around, why the hell there are some missiles which cannot take down an air unit.

For now, even the damn Kodiak has missiles instead of 2 AA railgun cannons. And the Advanced Fire Control upgrade is quite miserable.

No, just because other units (rather more like 95% of GDI vehicles Xd) has Reactive armor too, doesnt mean they all should be able to clear mines. I told you already, that I wish for a perfect gameplay balance, for upgrades to affecting different units in specific ways.

Give clear mines to Predator by default as a rare Tacitus unit and give clear mines also to APC, but only after upgrade, but to none other GDI unit. And of course, Titan and only Titan would be affected by being able to crush light vehicles after upgrade. (if you want Predator, Colossus being able to do it by default, I am not againts it)

Mammoths and Juggernauts as T3 heaviest vehicles, are little bit different.( BTW Reactive armor could apply to Juggeranaut it if does not already) They are able to crush light vehicles and both light and heavy infantry already by default. Yet, they are able to crush even medium vehicles, such as enemy Predators, Basilisks, Stealth tanks, Cobras even Wolwerines.. Well, Nod Scorpions are already a light unit, the rest are walkers and hover vehicles, so.. Feels almost little bit unfair toward Nod. Mainly only their vehicles are crushed by everything what can crush, roll over and stomp. Even Cyborg reapers can be crushed, since they count as heavy infantry. And Decimator Cyborg does just that. Crushing their smaller enemy cyborg walker cousins. Heheh, Heavy infantry crushing Heavy infantry, how perverse. xD

Another stealthed unit for Nod? VTOL gunship. The "Harpy MK2-Venom aka Donut" can probably say, "goodbye". if it stays like that. But yes, can have a Tiberium Fuel by default. We dont exactly need stealthed anti-vehicle Vertigo number two or stealthed Banshee number two, but some sort.. of..lets say aerial flying Obelisk of Light.. how does it sounds to you? crap or genius? xD Lets skip this for later debate either.

And I dont count that Scourge bombers were probably supposed to be meant to be stealthed instead of Eradicators.

Firehawk. a precision surgical bomber being good vs single structure but highly ineffective and inaccurate vs vehicles?? .....ehrrrmm.. No. no I dont get you.

If Firehawk cannot hit and easily destroy moving Scorpion tank or Manta or Predator or Titan (Titan would sprobably urvive with 2-5% of health). just because it needs to be different from Orca, then Firehawk is almost as good as non-existant. Just because he has his AA rockets means nothing to me.

Vertigo and Banshee are equally deadly vs infantry and both has a splash damage. So the only true GDI aerial unit (dont count the JpT this time) good vs infantry is suppposed to be Orca bomber, and the only good anti-vehicle GDI aerial unit-the Orca fighter? Isnt this the very nice specific reason why EMP were given to Firehawks?

I understand that you have 3 air units, doing 3 specific things, but both Orcas and every else GDI unit can equally effectively hammer down enemy structures. Thats why the EMP, just because Firehawks has the option and potential to become a very good AA- btw still inferior to Banshees, doesnt mean that Firehawk would fee lalmost unused, redundant and neglected.

I agree as well about Orca fighter, tho.

Mutants already have Hijacker as well. Nod has Cyborg Hijacker. stealthed, whereas mutants have EMP grenade on him. Would be nice to change them into T2 units, with price around 800-1000 and not a T3 for 1500 credits. Yeah, and they must be able to have fekking moar of 'em xD Not just one and only one measly hijacking unit xD

Reinforcement Support Powers- If you will mix summoned veteran infantry squads, you will increase the price for SP too much, and you will also be playing around with infantry tech tiers. You got GDI Armory- summon your veteran basic units which requires only armory, as it is T1,5 Support power. You cannot mix Zone trooper drop pods with parachute grenadiers,etc. Snipers and JpTs requires both Armory and Command Post. (I think Snipers should require only Armory) While Grenadiers( Disc throwers- as every unit capable of clearing garrison; except the accursed Buzzers and Buzzers hives; requires always only a Radar- Command Post) That is also why I were considering the Scrin Shock troopers being able to clear garrison, having a second weapon, instead of Stalwarts.

Nod SAM site: Yes, Tiberium warheads could be buffed up, improved missile speed from +33% to 50%, as the damage, plus increased 15-25% attack range. SAM site could be stealthed by default, needs its attack speed, reaction speed increased, recoil cooldown time decreased by default and we will dont need another hub turrets, which were from old SAM site for a reason. Can even shoot 4 missiles instead of 3 per payload, roughly as GDI Tempest MLRS.

Stealth tank needs buffed Tiberium Warheads, also with Tiberium Power pack as well, will be finally sufficiently deadly, fast. But still needs its range, attack speed increased and recoil cooldown decreased by default as well. And it will have its around 5% increased armor to survive little bit more punishment from Tiberium power pack.

Kevlar is a textile, so dont keep talking about it for any vehicle, for gods sake, ForMax, if we can increase armor of light vehicles together in one upgrade, albeit in T3 one.

We can improvise and instead of Tiberium Power pack to also provide with more armor, we can give Durable Materials upgrade to apply instead to Attack Bike, Raider Buggy, Stealth tank, Basilisk, Cobra, etc.

That would be all.

Edited by: Oaks

Just thought I'd drop 2 cents.

First and for most, I STRONGLY dislike Oaks' approach. Even though I understand it, to some degree, I find it extremely narrow minded and inflexible. Examples like "TE shouldn't do X because mod Y has X already" only make this approach seem even more draconian, because just because something already exists doesn't makes it bad, not viable or underwhelming in any way. We're not talking about a young child who needs to express his individuality here, but about a working system.

Second, instead of removing content and options, how about ADDING them instead? I understand you want a fine, light "feather-weight" game, but cutting things away and making it feather weight will result in you building something like EA did with C&C4. They too wanted "fast, light, feather-weight" action. So what did they do? They removed bases. Result? It's so light that it's even lighter then feather. The armies, the strategy, it all weights absolutely nothing.

Similarly, just because you want to play in a a particular style, that does not means you have to remove other options. If you want to be an elitist and special snowflake, then ok, you can do how you want, but why have only your special light snowflake option? If another player prefers brutal and ruthless war as opposed to lightweight feathers, why should your style be better than theirs? There must be more options for both, not less for just one!

TL;DR: If it works, it works, no need to invent a bicycle from zero if it already exists. Here are some examples:


On GDI titan vehicle crush:

Most notably, I'm in support of Titan actually getting a light vehicle crush ability. Not only because it's authentic to Tiberian Sun (And no, when you say "Go back to TS if you want TS", it's is not open minded nor is it friendly.) but also because it's more of a deterrent than actual threat. With Titan's current slow speed, the only reason a light vehicle can be crushed by a titan is if the enemy pays 0 attention to a walking heavy mech. If you're rushing underneath a Titan while you yourself are miniscule, it's only logical that you WILL get crushed. I'm not in support of Titans crushing medium vehicles, as those will generally either have better armor or will be at legitimate risk due to slow speed, but light vehicles standing in the way of a heavy assault machine and not bugging out pretty much DESERVE to be crushed. Making a simplistic, flimsy bike immune to the several tons of weight that a Titan puts on it because the pilot doesn't have self preservation instinct not to park into a walker patrol area is like forcing steel plates into people's skulls because else they can shoot themselves in the head.

On GDI titan passive abilities:

With this said, I seldom agree with the remove mines or increase speed ability for the Titan. The way it is built right now, a titan can shoot over walls, does good damage and has strong armor. It's the perfect assault platform and can even be used as a cheap alternative to siege machines. Increasing it's speed would remove the GDI signature slow-moving, guns blazing style. It won't hurt, but it's not exactly the Titan's role, either. Same goes for mines, it's an interesting suggestion but once more, it feels off. The Titan has always been a direct assault machine, built to kill. Having it wander around and poke mines into submission ... Not very offensive. Again, it can't hurt, but it isn't really needed, that's something a scout or support unit should be doing, not a siege/assault platform.

On GDI EMP:

I FIRMLY agree that GDI does NOT need another EMP unit, whatsoever. A small squad of falcons can disable any structure or any vehicular army for it to be obliterated with above mentioned Titans. Let alone if one has MLRS support and Firehawk support (again, with even MORE emp). Add to that the SP EMP power and a GDI player can pretty much render all static defenses completely useless in one swift move.

No. GDI snipers do NOT need emp either. You said it yourself, GDI already has too much of it. Then again, I wouldn't mind it if one other GDI unit gets their EMP removed. Having so much EMP is .. Constricting. Feels like the GDI player must always adhere to a single idea without being able to improvise and adapt to the situation, something that is required of a competent commander.



On NOD Flame Tanks:

Again, +1, despite your overall approach seeming exceedingly strict, you are correct in this regard. Flame tanks are just ... Too easy to blow up compared to the cost. Health regeneration on a vehicle doesn't sound too bad, but it might be a better option to give NOD a dedicated mobile repair unit specifically to keep the losses to a minimum. Either way, either the cost needs to drop by 100 or 200 or the armor needs to go up by about 10-15%, increasing range is also a good solution, as it would allow the flame tank to be a better solution against garrisoned missile squads (or even static ones, at that) at this time, the 1400 price tag is already low, but the simple fact that just a handful of rocket squads garrisoned in two separate buildings can seriously damage or destroy a flametank all on their own (depending on the distance between buildings and how much terrain the tank has to cover while under fire) invites my personal nod experience to simply ignore flametanks in favor of absolutely deadly, cheaper and rocket immune Black Hand infantry, backed up by Either an Avatar, a few stealth tanks or some reapers to make sure no AP vehicles prey on the black hand. Not only does this end up cheaper in the long run because stealth tanks and reapers are pretty much always a welcome addition, but also because the black hand are that much more versatile. Giving the flametank a flame turret would solve some if these issues, but would still require either a longer range or stronger armor. NOT BOTH at the same time.

On NOD anti-air turret:

I's not a fountain, I'll agree with that, but it actually works properly. Interestingly, I seem to have much better results with NOD AA turrets rather than GDI ones, to the point where I simply ignore GDI AA and place a few Rigs in keypoints and will have MLRS patrols on less critical areas. Scrin is the go-to anti-air with this, but NOD isn't exactly living the worst life. At most I'd suggest either a cheaper price so that it can be readily spawned around fresh outposts or at most add one other missile to the volley the SAM fires. Adding it's own stealth is not needed imo as stealth generators and units are much more versatile anyway, but as with Titan abilities, it's not something which will ruin things. Overall, I'd say only a minor re-touch is needed. Dropping the price to 750 or 800 to make the SAM some more disposable or adding a tad of firepower will help, but making the sam capable of singlehandedly obliterating Scrin assaults is out of question: You're either going to need to actually build more than one or use NOD's stealth options to circumvent the problem in another way. Having an all in one SAM, especially knowing how practical and deadly reapers can be, is just asking for more cake without finishing the first two.

On Scrin AP turrets:

Again, sorry Oaks, but this is complete and utter closed mindedness. Not only the buzzers make the scrin unique and distinctive, but you're also asking something of them that they're not supposed to do. You mentioned a Wolverine exploiting buzzer towers with free kills. Now remind me, what do buzzers kill? Infantry. Is a Wolverine an infantry unit? No, it is not. What do Wolverines kill? Infantry. Are buzzers an infantry unit? Yes. So basically you're complaining that an anti-infantry unit can easily kill an infantry unit? What's wrong with this picture? If a Wolverine can exploit a Scrin buzzer turret, it's because the scrin commander is INCOMPETENT and did not provide proper anti-armor support for the buzzers. Before being a turret, the buzzer colony is full of UNITS, and you're supposed to SUPPORT your units. Cutting an entire unit because of the incompetent approach of some commanders is not only extremely close minded, but again, it's like trying to prevent a suicide by gun by inserting metal plates in a person's skull. The problem is Scrin's lack of Anti Armor defense and actually solid infantry troops capable of giving proper support to the buzzers.

Buzzers are cheap, and if upgraded, rapid and versatile response to scouting and anti-infantry needs. If properly supported, a buzzer raid will wipe out GDI fortified foxholes in matters of seconds, especially so if properly supported by airforce to keep vehicular resistance busy. Snipers won't help. Grenadiers won't help. The buzzers can simply outrush everything in their way if given proper cover.

On Scrin AT turrets:

Word, this needs some reinforcements. Especially considering that unlike GDI or NOD, Scrin lacks an early game armored unit which is either cheap enough to hold the line or buff enough to repel armored assault. Considering scrin infantry isn't a fountain either, this leaves the Scrin WIDE open until at least mid game. Even then, a GDI vehicular assault consisting of 2-3 APCs with rocket squads and 1-2 Titans, if in early game, will be rather difficult for the scrin player to repel due to lack of solid anti-armor options early on.

This point also ties in with the base defenses. A much steadier approach would be an increased range on AT defenses. Not only will this make scrin bases a tougher assault for artillery based attacks, but a properly placed AT turret will deter buzzer farmers before the buzzers even get hurt. Attempting to continue harassment upon buzzer turrets with shorter range AP vehicles will result in punishment. And before you say that this would make the Scrin base defenses essentially impregnable ... 2 words. A: Artillery. It's there for a reason. B: EMP. It's there for a reason too.




That's about it.

Edited by: CFWMagic

Oh, hello. Most interesting. I havent expected new commander to appear. Havent seen ForMax for a long time, but this is a nice suprise. I dont even remember much what we were all disscusing:

Excuse me befor hand, for I will certainly sound seemingly patronizing and arrogant in the following sentences.

You havent properly read what I wrote back than did you? Otherwise you would not wrote so much misunderstandings and misconceptions about what I wrote and meant.

You also ignore some facts.

Ok, mr. CFWMagic, first take a look on TE. What do you see? Originality. Carnius's approach we always love is originality. I will only repeat that TE is not a copycat. Neither TE nor Carnius are children and Carnius in his own mod shows his own talent, vision, originality and expresses his and his mods individuality, its greatest asset and quality, when compared to other mods. That is my opinion and I welcome yours. I actually think that when it comes to Shock troopers, mr. ForMax had/has the exact opposite opinion to mine. I accept that you strongly dislike my opinion, but I have strong reasons for it.

I must say that youprobably must've misunderstood my crappy English, to by what I meant when I said" gameplay balance as a feathers on a weight."

I am always for more content, more options, more tactics, more units, more upgrades, more support powers, more factions, more possible approaches, but in a balanced manner, with no bugs, no unprecended situation, with you having perfect, clear and solid control over any situation and while following certain golden rules of proper RTS.

I am actually againts an ultra-light mega fast-paced action, I want Commanders to use a brain. Its exactly the opposite, I want no special elitists. I want to see just a normal wits,brains and resourcefull and imaginative players and competent Commanders, just like you want.

For the record I hate CNC4, I hate crawlers.
I love brutal and ruthless war more than anything else! xD (digital and enjoyful)

Titans:
I dont remember if Titans from TS were able to crush vehicles.
But I still think that any T1 vehicle crushing other T1 vehicles maybe too much. Thats why I want Titan to be able to crush vehicles after upgrade.
I agree with detterent, I understand what you want to say, if you want Titan being able to crush "some" vehicles, ok, but by default, with no upgrade required?
Now tell me which vehicles you think are light and which ones are medium? You think Titan should be able to crush Wolwerine? Or Cyborg reaper? Or hover vehicles as Razorback, Falcon?
Devourer, Stealth tank, Cobra, Reaver, Scorpion tank, Seeker - those are all light and also a lot of hover vehicles.
What about other heavy and medium slow walkers? Have you ever seen T2 Corruptor stomping any infantry or light T1 vehicle?
Mr. ForMax wants Titan to be more special, but I remember saying that in the end, the clearing mines would be better for Goliath APC.

Snipers:
Yap, GDI got more than enough of EMP.
But there could be some changes about Sniper squad.Their zero capabilites vs vehicles and structures makes me agree with Carnius's old question, regarding the if he should not remove them after all intention, when there are Wolwerine/JpT's.

Flame tank:
Nod already has a repair unit, the Phantom. Flame tanks price of 1400 is already low? Corruptor is superior and for 1200. Titan is for 1300. Try attacking Titan with 3 flame tanks..You'll get pwned.
Flame tanks have their subterenean move, yeah, but still can use a buff. Little bit of this and that, why not both armor and range? As long as this unit gets buffed I am content.

Nod SAM turret:
"Not a fountain" ? xD Dont know what exactly could that mean or if its some reference, but I think I get you.
Single-handedly dealing with Scrin "victory fleet" ? No, I never say that. I always more fond of increasing a quality, instead of decreasing a price.
I am content with its damage, but I keep reflecting on its proper reaction speed and attack speed and missile speed. If you want some other buff for damage increase in the Tiberium Missiles upgrades, yeah, why not.
Yes, GDI AA Battery is even worse. The quality of Goliath APC AA and AA of AA Battery (heheh) is incomparable. Though I still dont recommend sending Harpies againts either of them.(unlike JpT, AA Battery vs him is really absurd when compared to Goliath APC)

Buzzers and Buzzers Hive and Scrin AP turret:
Read what I wrote properly and read everything of it. Then you will understand why Buzzers are the most idiotic and ridiculous units in the universe.
You cannot support Buzzer Hive- its buzzers comming out from it are uncontrollable,bugged, can be shot and stopped with two basic rifleman and militant squads, or exploited. Then there are two or three more crazy exploitable bugs when certain Support Powers are used.
Wasting 200 credits so my Scrin vehicles will get some kind of cretinous bugged clear garrison ability(attack on vehicle) is stupid. When attached they are again uncontrollable, go whereever they pleases and will not just smoothly roll over infantry as any vehicle.
Why must Scrin suffer so much for stupidity of EA? Its not unit, its a defense structure. Unique and distinctive does not always means good working.
This is the case where my so called close-mindedness is fully deserved. That unit and defense simply kills its own purpose and reason for existence.
Where have you seen that 3 AP turrets are stopped, exploited and harmless vs single T1 light unit? ( AP vehicle or not)
Can you tell me why should I support a unit which is not in squad, or comes out in three of them every second when killed out of its "defense structure"?
If it would be some kind of ground small ranged anti-infantry static carrier-styled defense structure, that would be nice.
I dont exactly understand your phrase adage.
You know what will help vs 20 Buzzers and 4 Buzzer Hives? Single motherfucking Wolwerine, Harpy, or JpT or Ravager gunship.
And have you ever ever seen a Buzzer fighting a Buzzer? Or even Buzzer Hive vs enemy Buzzer Hive? Or Visceroid? Then you would know why this units and defense MUST be removed.
Its beyond any salvation or change. What kind of freak will be wasting his time, focus, micro, APM, credits and other units for supporting Buzzers?! When a battalion of vehicle crushing Titans with Wolwerines and Jpt's are comming your way? (albeit little slowly GDI-style eh?.xD)
I must ask you, have you ever played with Buzzers? How the fuck are Disintgerators or slow shooting and smaller-than-Seeker-ranged Shock troopers supposed to cover and support Buzzers? U mad bro?
I will waste 2000 credits on 10 Buzzers so I can clear single bunker and will get them killed in four seconds?

Scrin AT Turret:
They have Manta MBT, both Seeker and Manta are superior to Scorpion tank. Manta is for 1250, Titan for 1300. Manta is only a wee inferior to Titan.
And are good in anti-vehicle damage, despite armor and health shortage, with good movement speed, and otherwise adequate statistics of light and medium unit.
BTW: Corruptor for 1200 is superior to Manta, Flame tank, its actually best medium unit in game.( when it comes to damage and one on one unit fights)
Nevertheless, the Scrin anti-vehicle turret still needs atleast some upgrade. And PROPERLY GOOD, SENSIBLE INFANTRY.
Reminds me that Cobra can use a nerf, while Scrin siege capabilites are tied with low quality albeit ranged Devourer, need for more and better ranged EMP capabilities.The rest rests as always on the old unimaginative Scrin victory fleet of Devastators and PAC's. How shameful.
Talos would be so much greater than both Devourer and Reaver together.
If you want better range or anything for Scrin Lightning spike(Photon cannon), then I am in. But it still will not save the Buzzers or Buzzer Hive from my fully purposefull and justified hatred.