All of the thanks to goes to Carnius for a great mod, I am thankful that you are kind enough to make this for me and the rest of the CNC community, without caring about any kind of pay or reimbersment. I and, I believe the rest of the CNC community really just want to say, THANKS CARNIUS! and thank you for coming to TEF.
|Unique Harvesters Project||Locked|
|Nov 18 2012 Anchor|
Ok, First off, prepare for a very - very - very long post. I may delete this if I don't like how it turns out.
1) After the Tech Lab is built have the Harvester upgradable in a similar way to the NOD Avatar allowing 1 of the 3 main types of base defense to be retro-fitted in place of the little machine gun - in the style of TS component towers. This would give a choice of Anti-aircraft Guns, Anti-infantry Vulcan-cannon, or Anti-Vehicle Grenades. Any Base Defense Upgrades would apply here too if possible. Cost 800 per upgrade, 1 per Harvester.
2) After the Tech Lab is built allow an EMP upgrade purchasable at the refinery which upgrades all existing and future Harvesters with a small EMP Projector allowing the Harvester to project a small radius EMP burst at enemy vehicles while remaining fully functional (possibly to make an escape). This upgrade is in addition to the little machine-gun. Cost 2500
3) After the Tech Lab is built Allow a Heavy Armour upgrade purchasable at the refinery which gives all existing and future Harvesters with 66% more armour.
2:)Increase its harvesting efforts: by creating some upgrade that increase the number of tiberium the GDI harvester can store. yeah,some "Storeroom enlargement" upgrade xd The upgrade could apply for GDI silos,or even refineries too.Provided with "storeroom chamber" remodel upon harvester trunk,silo and refinery.
So that could generally mean,I am into something like "component tower upgrade" or "another idea".
I thought the GDI harvesters with mini MG and Nod harvesters with stealth were enough for unique abilities, and only thought Scrin could use a little more, but I do like the idea of component-styled weapons on GDI's harvesters.
I don't think any harvester should have clear structures ability, it'd be too OP. Especially since they automatically roam around between the base and tiberium, without needing your direct control.
Regarding the EMP, GDI will already have enough counter-measures, and with Nod I feel this will take out the usefulness of Buggies in late game. As for Scrin, I would say this particular EMP isn't fitting for them (because it seems more of a human weapon than alien), but, what if instead Scrin's harvesters shot out green "tiberium sludge" at units (same concept as the "Spitter" dinosaur from Jurassic Park) that would work very similarly to an EMP weapon that either temporarily slows or disables the vehicle (Scrin's version of EMP basically) but also harms/kills infantry. To be fair, this should definitely have a cool down, but maybe this should also have a cost - that cost could be some of the tiberium it harvested inside of it, so if it doesn't have tibeirum in it, then it can't use the ability (similar to the Devourer Tank's ability with the conversion beam)
Back to GDI's component weapons, I can definitely see the their harvesters being pre-equipped with the standard mini MG, as we know it, but when we select the harvester, we have 2 other options to buy that'd replace the current MG, as M0nfish originally suggested, but not needing the Tech Center as a prerequisite (the Barracks or Command Center, if any structure). Either: a mini launcher/turret that's good vs vehicles, or a mini anti-air turret. The player will upgrade according to what they feel will be needed more, but the upgrade is irreversible and must have a cost (maybe $200-$500). Or, if it'd be easier and better this way, make the GDI harvester come without any pre-built weaponry (possibly make it slightly cheaper also) by taking off the mini MG, but have that as an upgrade in addition to the other two mini weaponry.
I don't think it'd be necessary to have an upgrade that'd beef up the MG, or for that matter, any of the other guns it might have; if more firepower is needed for defending harvester(s), escort and defend it with the proper units However, I could still see it being useful for later game, so I'm not completely against it; it definitely should not be a significant boost/upgrade though. If yes to weapons upgrade, then of course the Nod and Scrin harvesters will need some sort of "boost" so that things stay balanced, which leads into my next idea.
Similar to the armor upgrade that you suggested M0nkfish, here's an idea that I put on another page before: "Refineries: an upgrade that'd affect harvesters, such as X % faster speed (Nod or Scrin), X % more armor (GDI), X % faster harvesting (Scrin or Nod)". If GDI harvesters are to get a boost in firepower, then I think it'd be best just to have one upgrade at the refinery that will add X% more damage to each of the three possible weapons. With these sorts up boosts/upgrades, for sure the Radar should be the prerequisite, but maybe the Tech Center?
After all that, here's what I am interested in:
For GDI, I would like to see M0nkfish's idea of 3 possible component-type weapons (but in the way I just described) as the standard defense ability for the harvesters, and later with an armor boost and/or weapon FP boost from the refinery.
For Scrin, I would like to see Oak's idea that was discussed here Moddb.com with tiberium radiation being "oozed" from Scrin's harvesters and refineries as their standard defense (and healing) ability, and later with a harvesting speed boost, and/or boost in the amount of tiberium it can carry, and/or tiberium sludge projectile (Scrin's version of EMP) ability from the refinery (these boosts seem natural to me, since it's native to tiberium).
For Nod, I would like to keep stealth as its standard defense ability, and later a vehicle speed boost and/or armor boost and/or harvesting speed boost from the refinery.
I am also really in favor of the idea of a cheap upgrade at GDI's and/or Nod's refineries (or at Silos, so more people are apt to build these) that'd increase the tiberium capacity of something(s). I've suggested this elsewhere too. And yes, a new model of some sort should show the upgrade (as with any upgrade I think ).
If you made it through the reading, what do you guys think?
Something I think would go well with the harvesters, (something from KW) would be if they die while they have a full load of tib, they cause an ion storm.
We were thinking the "Blink" ability like on the Shocktroopers, etc, or something similar to that style of teleportation; mainly as a way to seek safety or to access tiberium that's over a ridge or channel of water, as M0nkfish has stated.
While I still like and think all of the suggestions from the others are good ideas, I think you hit the nail on the head with your ideas! I think that makes complete sense that there would be an upgrade that'd cause the refineries and harvesters to "ooze" harmful tiberium radiation to the enemy as a defense (but healing to your own units), kinda like with the powerplant upgrade. After all, these do contain tiberium With this, I think it'd be better to have one upgrade at a refinery that does this for the harvesters and refineries. Or were you thinking that these would be pre-equipped at the start of the game with this defense? Those other ones you mention (increase the heal rate of harvester, harvesting speed or storage hold) all make sense too and either one would work great (like I said before, the Scrin harvester is native to tiberium, so having an advantage along these lines is logical). We'd have to pick one, though, and so I'd go for the "tiberium ooze" as defense. I hope Carnius might be able to try out these ideas sometime and decide for himself which would be better
Ok, so let's see how this turns out....
Now then, Let's lay that out for those of you who don't have an hour to read it all
GDI Harvester Ideas:
Nod Harvester Ideas:
Scrin Harvesters Ideas:
So, there's the basic concepts...
Edited by: Smallchange
|Nov 19 2012 Anchor|
From the above harvester ideas i'd like to see the following:
Tiberium Sludge Projectile this thick toxic sludge has moderate range sticking to vehicles making them immobile (as EMP). When fired on infantry, projectile causes tiberium sickness type damage (as if marching over a tiberium field) for a set period of time. Firing projectile reduces amount of tiberium stored in Harvester (as Devourer Tank). Balanced cool-down time, maybe moderate to long.
|Nov 19 2012 Anchor|
I want to thank Smallchange for a such precise and hard work.We've put him through a one hell of a confusive disscusion after all.(mainly me xd)
Then, I agree with M0nkfish having those upgrades. As I believe all harvesters deserves being unique in a way of their faction doctrine.
GDI-I wanna know if MG would still be preplaced.I dont want to start with harvester that has nothing "unique" to begin with.I dont think its primary weapon that differentiates him should require upgrade(credits and possible requirement)
NOD- agree with speed movement upgrade,but with a health or armor increasing only to a certain degree.(I think NOD one,or harvesters generally should have probably only minor health differences if at all.
Scrin - Ooze should be costly as it heals harvester constantly and permanently.Probably higher tier requirement.
I disagree with Sludge Projectile. Scrin harvester through upgrade gained advantage and is able to defend himself againts infantry.But it cant gain a weapon,it has be different from GDI one.
.Mac. is on the move
|Nov 19 2012 Anchor|
Right, Carnius can always name these upgrades to what he feels is right. For now we're using these terms like "ooze" because we understand and can visualize what that means
Personally, I really believe it should be just one weapon mounted on top of GDI's harvester at a time. Either anti-infantry, anti-tank, or anti-air. Since it is only a harvester and not an assault vehicle, it'd be too much and not right for balance to have a combination of any 2 of those. So you're deciding what you feel you will need most at the time when it's out in the field, kinda like with upgrading the Avatar. Plus, it's possible you'll have more than one harvester out there, so give each one a different weapon. If you need more to defend it, you should make use of other units and send those out to help, or bring it back to base. If it were possible, I'd be fine if the weapon upgrades weren't permanent; so if you wanted you could later swap for a different weapon if you change your mind and need something else more (but to be fair, it should require time to make the swap and maybe even a small cost).
I can agree with Scrin's harvester not needing the sludge projectile, especially if it were to have tiberium radiation around it. I just thought it was a neat concept to see sludge as a weapon that Scrin could use, besides just a ground texture. So, perhaps another Scrin unit could use this if it needs something more or different for its weapons/abilities. If not, it's okay
Lol, yeah lately I've had time to get "a few" ideas out
Edited by: .Mac.
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
|Nov 19 2012 Anchor|
I know what I want done with the Nod harv... I want it to work on lag heavy maps. That's it. Stealth harvesters are already borderline OP.
"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb
|Nov 19 2012 Anchor|
This, yes, this...
|Nov 19 2012 Anchor|
I don't know how I missed this earlier... but this all looks great to me for the harvesters M0nkfish! You added more detail to the Tiberium Sludge idea too, it looks official, now I really would like to see it in action I wonder if people would miss the Conversion Beam (I don't think it's that special) on the Devourer Tank, if the Tiberium Sludge Projectile became its special ability instead?
You're right GoldenArbiter, that is something that needs to be fixed for Nod's harvesters.
Edited by: .Mac.
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