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Poll: Kane's plan according to you? (14 votes)
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Kane and his plans (Groups : Tiberium Essence Fans : Forum : General Banter : Kane and his plans) Locked
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Oct 15 2011, 5:01am Anchor

Hey folks, Atlas here.

I've been figuring on this subject for quite some time. And after parts of C&C3 and all of C&C4 , the C&C wiki has been useless for these kind of things.
So here I bring you something to think about.

 Ever since we first saw Kane in (Canonical order) Red Alert he has always been a mysterious person who later was revealed as the leader of Nod. But what has Nod's real goal ever been? It seems that it has been a subject of change from game to game.
Now as far as I remember (I didnt play, and even less finish Tiberium Dawn in a long time) Kane's and Nod's goal in the "FTW" (First Tiberium War) was mainly to create havoc on the western nations cities and GDI by various methodes such as bombing structures, infiltration and even hacking the Ion Cannon.

In the STW, his goals were made a lot more clear, and made a lot more sense. He wanted to transform the Earth and all living beings on it to Tiberium based creatures. There wasnt anything that prevented this either, aka, Tiberium clearly created a functional flora and fauna around itself. Examples are not just the cyrstals being a plant themselves, but also the tiberium trees, the more developed creatures such as the Fiend and Floater and so on. Also notice that there is no talk about "Ascension" here. All there is is "Transformation".

In the TTW,  it does get a bit fuzzy again. Here you have to partly take into consideration that EA for some very odd reason just scrapped the whole Tiberium flora/fauna idea and made Tiberium into something simillar to a crystalized Uranium that spreads. Im not saying this should be the official Westwood-canon by far, but as we do not have an own "campaign", yea, you get the deal. In any case, remember the cutscene when playing as Nod, just after you defended Temple Prime? The guy clearly says/prays "Let the Earth and all who lives on it be transformed by the power of Tiberium", not exact those words, but thats what it means. Later on in the campaign, it becomes quite clear that this wasnt Kane's plan at all. Apperantly he wanted access to a Threshold tower from the Scrin. "Gateway to the stars" as he said, and "Ruler of the universe". Kane also mentions earlier in the campaign that they are going to "Abandon this God-forsaken rock".

If you (god forbid) played through C&C4, or just like me, browsed through the cutscenes on YouTube, at the end of the game, you'll realise that Kane never was any sort of "Messiah", or even close to it. He only was "ET wanting to go home" all along!

Of course you could say that this was Kane's plan all along. But, honestly guys. It is quite clear that EA made some changes between TS and TW. There is a quite obvious missing link there between what Westwood called canon, and what EA does.

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Oct 16 2011, 11:32pm Anchor

I completely agree. Also, I am one of those people who had to force themselves to play C&C4... I bought it, nay, pre ordered it. so I had to play it at least once...
anyways, before we can start saying that EA isn't following Westwood's canon, we must first realize that EA isn't following it's own canon. 

At the end of Kane's Wrath, Legion translates a message from the tacitus: "EARTH WARP GATE STATUS ACTIVE: COMMENCING PHASE 2: INVASION" 
last I checked, there were no aliens in C&C4... hell, the only non human thing was a couple visceroids that looked cute and cuddly....

Regardless, the wiki has a good point to draw all of the wars together to fit with C&C4 ending... Cnc.wikia.com scroll down to 'ultimate goal' 

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Oct 17 2011, 4:03am Anchor

Indeed the Wiki has its points. But one must remember that the wiki is "forced" to accept all games in the series as canon, no matter if it makes sense or not.
The "Ultimate Goal" written about really "requiers" C&C3 and 4 to be 100% canonological, as well as TibDawn and TibSun, which creates a mess.

The same issues seems to exist in the Red Alert universe, but there EA's excuse is time-travel and different time-lines.

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Oct 17 2011, 7:29am Anchor

there are no... major plot holes between tibsun and tibwar. none that I can think of that is... just minor things.... its between tibwar and... that thing that EA made afterwords that all of the holes appear. 

also, the red alert thing was just EA being lazy. think about it: continuity error? fix with time travel.

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Oct 17 2011, 10:43am Anchor

The plotholes between TibSun and TibWars isnt gigantic no. Its more of "makes-sense" issues that exists. Aka both GDI and Nod seemingly backing in technology, Tiberium drasticly changing from a plant to a radioactive crystal, Mutants and so on... Thats why we have Tiberium Essence afterall, to fix all ingame derps really. But the cinematics and the campaign mode itself is harder to "fix".

I suppose it could be said that you really have to "imagine" yourself what Kane's plans really are; atleast if you like me refuse to recognise C&C4 as a real C&C game.

Also, another thing to mention on Kane is the drastic change of behaviour from his side between the games. In TibDawn you have him as a quite equal to his generals, excet for the fact that he does stand above them, and can execute any of them if he so wished (Aka Seth, second in command).

 In TS, you still have him as a bit of a ruthless leader, but here his role over the Inner Circle of Nod is quite clear. He doesnt seem to be as willing to execute his own leaders though and more focused on straight on traitors like Hassan.

And in TibWars, he seems to have gone very religious, compared to previous titles. Living up to the name "The Prophet" indeed. Here I suspect simply that EA seemed to think that this role better suited him, other than the high-tech/science and almost warlord-like Kane we knew before that.

Edited by: AtlasTasume

GooberTrooper
GooberTrooper Nod Global Operations Commander
Oct 17 2011, 2:29pm Anchor

We may never know what Kane's plans where to be originally. Or even now. Its like (If not exactly) a story that got stopped in the middle and the author changes. So you will never know what the original author was gonna put in the rest of the story.  Even now trying to contemplated what the ending could have been under the original author leaves me baffled.

--

"War is timeless, and so are we."~ Forgotten Tick Tank

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Oct 20 2011, 7:24am Anchor

We could ask petroglyph.... They might be willing to tell us what the old westwood staff had planned...

I do not believe C&C4 is worthy of the title.

And as for kane the prophet, I think he was still the ruthless warlord he was, just only behind the scenes. Think about it, the brotherhood is fanatical to him, would you want your living god to execute you for failure? no, youd want him to forgive you. Remember the betrayal of killian? he... (I cant actually remember what happened XD) did something to her after she was captured.

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Oct 20 2011, 9:26am Anchor
GoldenArbiter wrote:We could ask petroglyph.... They might be willing to tell us what the old westwood staff had planned...

I do not believe C&C4 is worthy of the title.

And as for kane the prophet, I think he was still the ruthless warlord he was, just only behind the scenes. Think about it, the brotherhood is fanatical to him, would you want your living god to execute you for failure? no, youd want him to forgive you. Remember the betrayal of killian? he... (I cant actually remember what happened XD) did something to her after she was captured.


He asked her and Ajay out, then when Ajay started to question his own words on Kilian being a traitor, Kane shot her dead ifront of everyone.

As for asking Petroglyph, I know, sort of, their answer. I used to be a bit of an information-gatherer for C&C Reborn, and in one of the threads I remember reading about how they had asked Petroglyph about what they would have done. Their answer was a bit secretish, among the lines off "We did kind of make up new plans as we went along, but certainly EA's version is certainly... Different from what we had in mind."

I also remember them commenting on the fact that Westwood never planned a full-scale Scrin invasion. As far as I know, they had their minds more around a more stealthy approach.

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Oct 24 2011, 7:03am Anchor
AtlasTasume wrote:
He asked her and Ajay out, then when Ajay started to question his own words on Kilian being a traitor, Kane shot her dead ifront of everyone.

Reinforces my point.

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Smallchange
Smallchange GDI, 101st Airborn Division, Firehawk Pilot
Nov 3 2011, 2:42am Anchor
GoldenArbiter wrote:there are no... major plot holes between tibsun and tibwar. none that I can think of that is... just minor things.... its between tibwar and... that thing that EA made afterwords that all of the holes appear. 

XD

GoldenArbiter wrote:And as for kane the prophet, I think he was still the ruthless warlord he was, just only behind the scenes. Think about it, the brotherhood is fanatical to him, would you want your living god to execute you for failure? no, youd want him to forgive you. Remember the betrayal of killian? he... (I cant actually remember what happened XD) did something to her after she was captured.

what atlas says is correct, here:

AtlasTasume wrote:
GoldenArbiter wrote:We could ask petroglyph.... They might be willing to tell us what the old westwood staff had planned...

I do not believe C&C4 is worthy of the title.

And as for kane the prophet, I think he was still the ruthless warlord he was, just only behind the scenes. Think about it, the brotherhood is fanatical to him, would you want your living god to execute you for failure? no, youd want him to forgive you. Remember the betrayal of killian? he... (I cant actually remember what happened XD) did something to her after she was captured.


He asked her and Ajay out, then when Ajay started to question his own words on Kilian being a traitor, Kane shot her dead ifront of everyone.


=============

GoldenArbiter wrote:
AtlasTasume wrote:
He asked her and Ajay out, then when Ajay started to question his own words on Kilian being a traitor, Kane shot her dead ifront of everyone.

Reinforces my point.


On this, Idk, I believe kane was a form of a messiah, (sort of)... he was the savior of many, GDI DID oppress everyone that they *protected* and obviously scrin wasnt voted in as nicest faction to hang out with. So, Nod/Kane had its advantages, thats for sure.

Nov 9 2011, 8:42pm Anchor

in the game that must not be named, they made it look like kane's whole plan was falling apart, after he survived 2 ion cannons, a liquid Tiberium bomb plus ion cannon, tricked GDI into starting the scrin invasion and kept things pretty well in line in NOD ranks after his extended absence in kanes wrath.

Nov 10 2011, 3:12am Anchor
smoky10983 wrote:in the game that must not be named, they made it look like kane's whole plan was falling apart, after he survived 2 ion cannons, a liquid Tiberium bomb plus ion cannon, tricked GDI into starting the scrin invasion and kept things pretty well in line in NOD ranks after his extended absence in kanes wrath.

Kane and Nod in "that" game simply makes no sense what so ever. There isnt even any point of trying to connect it to the other C&Cs...

playmsbk
playmsbk 21st Special Nod Division
Nov 10 2011, 3:33pm Anchor

To start off , why cannot, should not and will never ever consider C&C4 as canon, even between TS and TW not much changed, but between TW and TT, nothing is the same.

As I see it Kane's goal was to use Nod to lure the Scrin to Earth while "trying" to achieve domination but that was only a fake cause to make people join in. However, Kane had two main goals. First, ascend with the rest of his most loyal followers and second, force evolution on Earth and its habitants, the second being the actual cause of Nod, not global domination, like most thought.

His plan was to use Nod to lead the world to the events of GWW2 and use the USSR to strengthen the Brotherhood and lure the Scrin to seed Tiberium to the Earth. Later he surfaced and fortified some places to reinforce Nod's place while making a legend of himself (undying man). He then fought a war with Nod to achieve ultimate technology and lured McNeil to "kill" him again. He then activated a program inside CABAL to test both GDI and Nod, while making GDI more powerful than the national governments and Nod having a more civillian-pro stance. He then made another war to force GDI blow up the LQ Tib bomb and make scrin come to the planet. At the end he captured a Threshold and the Tacitus and... what then? EA didn't answer that.

That was my point of view, and it's all based on what I've understood from the story so far, not any canin sources.

--

FIGHT FOR THE BROTHERHOOD, DIE FOR KANE!

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Nov 10 2011, 3:57pm Anchor

Hmmm... Never thought about it like that Playmsbk... Makes plenty of sense though.

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

Nov 10 2011, 4:03pm Anchor
playmsbk wrote:To start off , why cannot, should not and will never ever consider C&C4 as canon, even between TS and TW not much changed, but between TW and TT, nothing is the same.

As I see it Kane's goal was to use Nod to lure the Scrin to Earth while "trying" to achieve domination but that was only a fake cause to make people join in. However, Kane had two main goals. First, ascend with the rest of his most loyal followers and second, force evolution on Earth and its habitants, the second being the actual cause of Nod, not global domination, like most thought.

His plan was to use Nod to lead the world to the events of GWW2 and use the USSR to strengthen the Brotherhood and lure the Scrin to seed Tiberium to the Earth. Later he surfaced and fortified some places to reinforce Nod's place while making a legend of himself (undying man). He then fought a war with Nod to achieve ultimate technology and lured McNeil to "kill" him again. He then activated a program inside CABAL to test both GDI and Nod, while making GDI more powerful than the national governments and Nod having a more civillian-pro stance. He then made another war to force GDI blow up the LQ Tib bomb and make scrin come to the planet. At the end he captured a Threshold and the Tacitus and... what then? EA didn't answer that.

That was my point of view, and it's all based on what I've understood from the story so far, not any canin sources.


Your version can make sense yes. But remember that that is then a conspiracy idea between Kane and CABAL, sort of. My own ideas are quite different from that, as seen in the "Plothole-thread".

However, one thing I think we all can agree on, no matter what: That its more or less impossible to tell where Westwood would have gone if they hadnt been closed down, as they made up more of the story as they went onwards. Unlike other broken universes, such as Star Wars or Halo, C&C never had a "Complete original canon" which was ruined. The only thing we know is that this is NOT what Westwood was planning on doing, and thereby I dont think any of us true fans can really take EA seriously with like 50% of C&C3, all of RA3 and all of C&C4.

Edited by: AtlasTasume

GoldenArbiter
GoldenArbiter Proud servant of Kane
Nov 11 2011, 7:01am Anchor

Agreed. Still fun to s'pose though.

--

"Before enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water. After enlightenment: Chop wood, fetch water." -zen proverb

GooberTrooper
GooberTrooper Nod Global Operations Commander
Nov 14 2011, 11:16pm Anchor

Well. If you were Kane and you had an Alien device that has a wealth of knowledge of various things, and a giant portal. What would you do?

--

"War is timeless, and so are we."~ Forgotten Tick Tank

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