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rkraptor70
rkraptor70 Jul 30 2013, 7:49am says:

"specially the Leopard 2A7+ and the Russian T-90M"

Youtube.com

+4 votes     reply to comment
S3TH
S3TH Jul 30 2013, 1:08pm replied:

Don't know about the T-90 but the Leo is superior.
-> Mostly equally Tank but with better Gun

+10 votes     reply to comment
stukatankkiller
stukatankkiller Jul 30 2013, 7:00pm replied:

plus it's cheaper to run

+8 votes     reply to comment
VWV
VWV Jul 31 2013, 12:44pm replied:

Who needs a cheap tank when you're already in debt for 15 trillion of dollars!

+7 votes     reply to comment
tanker1408
tanker1408 Jul 31 2013, 10:38pm says:

The T-90 is much more in the need of some major upgrades, as it is far behind, and more outdated than the M1 Abrams, or any other western MBT for that matter. Since after the fall of the Soviet Union, Russian tanks have not been modernized to modern standards. Unlike western MBT's which have continuously been upgraded and redesigned throughout the last years.

The T-90 has the worst protection, because it still uses the outdated Kontakt-5 ERA from the 1980's, which is outdated by now. It may have been very effective back in the 80's, but it's insufficient for today's protection standards. Now, the M829A3 and DM53 (used by the Abrams and Leopard) are both able to penetrate the Kontakt-5 ERA (and of course the basic armor of the tank). In fact, even the earlier M829A2 from the early 90's was already credited of being able to penetrate the K-5)

On top of this, the 125mm gun that is used by all Russian tanks, has not received any upgrades or any new tank rounds capable of penetrating the front armor of the Leopard 2A6 or the M1A2 SEP. At least not the turret front. Maybe it could penetrate the lower hull front of the western MBT's, at close range, but I'll leave this open to debate.

Although the Russians did come up with a few new prototypes recently, such as the T-95 (with an impressive 152mm gun), or the T-90AM presented in 2011, which has the new developed Relikt ERA armor. But neither of them have entered service yet, and probably will remain as such for the next few years.

0 votes     reply to comment
-=ForcesUnknown=-
-=ForcesUnknown=- Aug 1 2013, 11:18pm replied:

-Says T90 is outdated: T90 sports more modern computers and fire controls than the M1A1. Not including T-90A or the up coming T-90 ARMATA system, let alone the urban combat vehicle BMP-T. T-90 hit 7 out of 7 targets on move, M1A1 hit 5/7. T-90 is capable of using HE-FRAG (A dedicated anti-personnel round), HEAT, and APFSDS, where as the M1 system can use: APFSDS, HEAT, MP-OR/HEAT,and CANISTER (useless shotgun ammo that serves the same purpose as the 240C Co-axial gun and the M2HB on the roof).

-Claims the T-90 can't penetrate M1, well no because vehicles cant penetrate each other, they are vehicles, not bullets nor are they shells. (The M1A1 series have been knocked out by decrepit anti-armor rockets from frontal armor in both gulf wars, RPG-7 and cheap derivatives).

-Yeah, Kontakt-5 is "dated", but that would also have to mean that the ERA on the TUSK system is completely obsolete and any other ERA for that matter must be ancient and ineffective. Second, the M829A3 is yet another useless anti-tank round with no real investment in any actual dedicated anti-personnel (Canister is useless, it put out the same amount of firepower as the co-ax and takes a hell of a lot more money to fire, and is the definition of inaccurate), so who gives a **** about a already effective anti-tank round?
-continued from bottom-

-1 votes     reply to comment
-=ForcesUnknown=-
-=ForcesUnknown=- Aug 1 2013, 11:19pm replied:

-continued from top-
-Guns do not penetrate things, bullets do, dumb ***. Claiming the rounds cant penetrate jack-**** would also mean that those RPGs they made cant kill a Humvee, yet a low velocity 9mm bullet would completely obliterate it: "any new tank rounds capable of penetrating the front armor of the Leopard 2A6 or the M1A2 SEP. At least not the turret front" Because an RPG cant kill a Humvee at 400 meters. "Maybe it could penetrate the lower hull front of the western MBT's, at close range" but a low velocity 9mm would obliterate it. Oh and, if you are so sure of your ******* self, explain why the "dated" RPG-7 was shown able to completely disable an M1 with a frontal turret hit? Let alone an RPG-29 with virtually the same penetrating power as some of the more modern 2A46 cannon rounds. (Oh and, there were no T-72s in Iraq and the moon is not made of cheese, unicorns are debatable though.)
-continued from bottom-

0 votes     reply to comment
L00Ng_StRyKr
L00Ng_StRyKr Aug 1 2013, 12:02am says:

Hey guys, give it some credit. It's American after all - budgeted, regulated, old and tired, plus tall and fat at the same time. It's got muscles and a gut, some glory, and a loud mouth.

+1 vote     reply to comment
aidas2
aidas2 Aug 1 2013, 6:33am says:

Comments TL;DR America dominate, **** yeah! *Post outdated and ill informed details*. **** yeah!

+2 votes     reply to comment
-=ForcesUnknown=-
-=ForcesUnknown=- Aug 1 2013, 11:20pm says:

-continued from top-
-Yeah, at least the Russians update their arsenal of tanks every few years, yet we, the United States, still seem to cling to our already obsolete tank destroyer (that either weights 72/73 tons: M1A1/M1A2, or 82: M1A1/2 TUSK). You know? That tank that gets stuck in virtually everything a normal AFV would go over fairly well without issue? An lets not forget a Gas Turbine engine that has a nasty tendency to burst into flames for absolutely no reason when in idle. Or the fact the M1 cannot support a dozer blade without it tearing its entire suspension out from underneath it (though all Russian tanks after the T-62 had a built in dozerblade that works absolutely fine)

I could go on forever but you understand that you are making biased and wild claims in support of the US military that in it self has no idea what the hell it is talking about or tries to preserve this "invincible" image despite its massive failures and lack of any real military hardware-tanks, guns, boats, aircraft, explosives, personnel, wheeled, and leadership- lacking anything capable of doing anything real. The M1 platform was designed out of an irrational fear of Soviet tanks, to which even then it did not stand a chance against them. The tank despite what the media and the military claims to be the death star of the tank world is nothing but a white elephant and a sour lemon of the military and us tank enthusiasts. The M1 has been perceived as a god amongst men, yet its combat performance has shown that it is a mere self-inflicting cripple.
-conclusion below-

+3 votes     reply to comment
-=ForcesUnknown=-
-=ForcesUnknown=- Aug 1 2013, 11:22pm replied:

-rant above-
But hey, at the very least you took the bait so someone could make more money AND get away with a scam (that has been running for 30 years, god bless the pentagon and congress) at the same time, for that I say good job and congratulations on earning the General Dynamics Land Systems fan trophy. Oh and if you think the M1126 Stryker platform is a capable armored car, you get double the award. Triple if you think the M2 Bradley series is the "be all you can be" army APC.

+2 votes     reply to comment
onikenshin
onikenshin Aug 25 2013, 2:46am says:

Um. There was no account of an RPG7 taking out or disabling aside from tracks on any Abrams. No other modern MBT has seen as much combat than the M1 Abrams. It is superior to all modern MBT's, mainly because there are more of them than any other, plus the closest contenders that are the Leo 2 and Challenger 2, are still not in numbers. They would fail because there are only hundreds of them opposed to thousands of Abrams.

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While it's definitely not the best tank in the world, nevertheless the M1 Abrams is a capable American fighting machine. But it'll need more extensive modernization to keep up with it's European counterparts, especially the Leopard 2A7+ and the Russian T-90M

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