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A place where ModDB members can debate civilly, and learn from each other's views.
Another subject brought up, this one, by Lt.Dann. His view that "religion causes death" is one held by quite a few atheists and even a few religious people. These people claim the world would be better off without religion and that secular atheist ideals will bring peace but this is a lie. The image that I have created argues against that and shows that atheistic ideals (secularism, communism and other political ideologies) and irreligious beliefs can cause death and war just as any religion can if a tyrant uses it for their own greedy desires.
Pol Pot happened to be an atheist communist who imposed Agrarian socialism on the people of Cambodia. The result was that people were used in forced labor and had poor health care. Meanwhile Pol Pot arranged executions for those who opposed him. The result was that 21% of the population of Cambodia died while under his ruler-ship, approximately over a million people.
Pol Pot also led the Khmer Rouge during his time as leader of Cambodia. The Khmer Rouge were responsible for genocide along with other atrocious deeds that they committed during their quest to forcefully change Cambodia into an agrarian communist society.
Hitler was irreligious and he persecuted Jews, Christians and Jehovah Witnesses. Hitler praised Christianity in 1922 but as referenced in Hitler's Table Talk, Hitler was negative about Christianity and religion in general by 1941.
Atheistic states like USSR also persecuted religion (killing religious people) and atheistic states like North Korea continue to do so today. North Korea also disallows people from following a religion or believing in a god and it also disallows freedom of speech. Anyone who follows a religion or speaks freely is executed or imprisoned.
Religion has been used for evil in the past but so have secular atheistic systems and anti-religion has been used as fuel for evil too. The result, that history shows, is that both religious people and atheists can be as bad as each other.
I made this image for the Christian group two years ago ( Moddb.com ) in response to this image: Moddb.com
It is believed 150,000 died due to the Inquisition. In comparison, Pol Pot and his anti-religious communist Khmer Rogue party killed 1.5 million people.
Witch burning was fueled by superstition, not religion. Indeed, tribal Africans did the same thing as did Pagans. Christians were not the only people who participated in witch burning.
My view on the Crusades is here:
Moddb.com
They were a politically motivated series of wars where religion was simply used to fuel it further.
And no, I'm not saying atheism has killed. I'm saying that anti-religious, atheistic, secular and political ideologies have killed just as much (if not more) than religion. The world would not be perfect without religion.
Also before anyone comes calling Hitler a Christian:
Moddb.com
He was anti-Christian.
We will have this world with or without religion. But we've seen this world more often while believing.
The worst wars have been due to politics, not religion.
No one absolutely believes the world would be better without religion, or even different at all, but people can look back on history and analyze how religion relates to events and wonder what could've happened if religion was taken out of the equation.
All this shows is that atheists are incapable of reasoning or listening to anything that is negative of atheism.
Their defence mechanism and reaction to this image is laughable.
They have equally biased images but don't bat an eye until one is made against atheism.
inb4 more butthurt atheists come crying...
If you're trying to make the point that violence is more likely without religion is ridiculous. To be atheist is not to be without a moral code, but to be with a moral code that isn't influenced by religion. If you look in Stalin's childhood, you could see that a hatred for religion can be from his abusive parents who forced him to believe in religion and go to church by beating him. He loathed his parents so much, he refused to go to his mother's funeral.
Everything is influenced by religion and philosophy especially morality and ethnics. Any moral code, in itself, is religious by definition. Moral codes consist of a set of principles and beliefs.
No, my point is that with or without religion, there will always be violence.
People can't have a set of principles without religion? Anyone can have a set of principles without religion. In fact religion has no principles at all. It's just rules that should be followed otherwise you will be tortured for eternity. Those aren't principles, those are threats. People need to be raised to realize that ethics have their own benefits and not just follow them under fear.
Really? So Buddhism teaches I will burn forever? Sikhism teaches I will burn forever? Hinduism teaches I will burn forever? Christianity teaches that too?
Sikhism teaches evil souls get reincarnated to try again (this is also the view of Buddhism). Hinduism is very similar. Christianity teaches that evil souls simply cease to be (this is known as the second death) and Hell that Jesus describes is metaphorical (I mean, why would it not be where everything Jesus had said beforehand was metaphorical too?).
None of them teach that you suffer eternally. I suggest you look up on what religions teach before you attempt to bundle them into your misconception of what you think is true.
Christianity's main principles of what Christ taught were these:
-Forgive others.
-Love one another as you love yourself.
-Turn the other cheek.
-The Golden Rule.
The other things are spiritual matters and do not define religion alone. Now you're just being dishonest.
*sniffs* ah butthurt atheists. It stinks horribly. They love attacking religion but now that the tables have been turned on them, they're crying like bitches.
They need to be more like me, the cheeky agnostic.
Fine, then let's look at a world with religion:
The following are done in the name of God:
Cracked.com
Cracked.com
Patheos.com
Things done in the name of Allah:
Cracked.com
Bbc.com
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These stuff are somewhat recent. Maybe we can all agree that that religion or lack of it is simply a cover for people to justify their douchebaggry rather than the cause of it.
Two can play at that game:
Nydailynews.com (Militant atheist viciously beats Ohio pastor after church service)
Themalaymailonline.com (Missionaries imprisoned in North Korea for preaching)
Bosnewslife.com (Dozens of Churchmen kidnapped in China)
Asianews.it (More priests arrested in China)
These things have been done by atheist governments who actively oppose religion. The top story, being a militant atheist who beat up a pastor because of his religion.
I never denied religion has done evils but so have anti-religious atheistic regimes.
You miss my point, my point is that religion or the lack of are not the main reason that humans act in various douchebaggish ways. A world without religion is as good (or crappy) as a world with religion.
The root of the problem is human nature.
"Two can play at that game"
I'm sorry Knight but people are trying to debate here, not see who can make the best comeback. It's unfortunate when the debate group has become a boxing ring for people who just want to provoke and annoy.
I remember when I first found this group, I saw the topics that had been debated: modern politics, history, current social problems, science, etc... You know, clever topics.
I thought: "How have I not found this group before!"
But then, after a few months, this kind of topic that basically become a flame war started appearing and I started seeing less people debating the clever topics that sporadically appeared in between the 'flame wars'.
It was too good to last...
I'm not trying to provoke or score points. I was simply providing a response to show that anyone can dig up stories as Kalga did. Kalga himself agrees with my point that a world with or without religion will still have violence and wars but nonetheless he decided to post links like the ones I did afterwards. Therefore if I'm in the wrong then so is he.
Why? We've reached the census that human nature and extremist mind-sets will cause violence and war with or without religion. This image was in response to a claim saying the world would be a utopia without religion.
... and the image you posted is totally from a neutral perspective to begin with...
... look if everyone already agreed that the fundamental problem is from human nature then why even continue the debate? Do you want a victory that badly?
The image I posted was deliberately bias in response to the deliberately bias image it was responding to. Do you not get that? I've already agreed with you so I don't see what you're trying to carry on here...
All this shows is that atheists are incapable of reasoning or listening to anything that is negative of atheism.
Their defence mechanism and reaction to this image is laughable.
They have equally biased images but don't bat an eye until one is made against atheism.
inb4 more butthurt atheists come crying...