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We Christian brothers and sisters need to shape up.

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Have you took a good look at the world lately? I have, and it's not pretty. All over the world Christians are losing ground, in the east Christians are being brutally persecuted, in the west people are forgetting their faith and turning to sinful lives
What are we Christians doing about it?

Nothing.

You see, we're too busy bashing each others Christian faith, "You shouldn't worship like this, That's idolatry, that's unchristian." it's all making me sick! Do you guys think that God would want us to do this?
Unity: If we actually followed God's word's to the letter their would only be one Christian religion on earth not half a dozen or more! We need to unite together to combat the threats to the faith, forget our differences, and remember that God needs us to do his will on earth.
Duty: This is where most Christians fail, I can safely say, for myself and others that no one here is without sin. A big reason that people become atheist is they want to shrug off their Christian duty, they fall prey to the temptations of this world and forget Christ. It is our duty to keep to God's will so that we set an example to others.
Destiny:It's not ours we should mainly care about, it's the nonbeliever's destiny. If we have kept true to his word then we have nothing to worry about, just some time in purgatory, but the fate of the nonbeliever is a most horrible indeed. Show love and compassion to all, weather or not they are Christian. Listen to their problems with Christianity and help them sort them out, for if we turn them away now, chances are they won't be coming back.

The wheels of the world are turning, will you do God's will? Or continue to sulk in sinfulness?

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ElfFriend
ElfFriend

Youtube.com
Youtube.com
Here are 2 videos that I feel should be mentioned as they sort of relate to this issue. I watched both of them and I think they both have very good messages.

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Baron Brosephus Creator
Baron Brosephus

OH YEAH BABY GIVE IT TO ME!!

Seriously, these kinds of articles are what ModDB members. To hell with our bickering over technicalities, we're all Christians despite our differences of opinion.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

Quote:in the west people are forgetting their faith and turning to sinful lives


No, people are not forgetting their faith, they are discarding it as for the reasons I descriped within the last paragraph below. And as it turns out, many things hat have been declared as sinful are in fact not - which is another reason for discarding faith.

Quote:If we actually followed God's word's to the letter their would only be one Christian religion on earth not half a dozen or more!


Wowowowow... Wait here, templarnordbyzantine, thats a huge piece of fallacy! If other religions before christianity would stick to that advice, there would be no christianity at all. Dismissing other religions than your own as untrue is an arrogant statement and can turn around like a boomerang and hit all present versions of christianity as well, if you are not careful.

Quote:A big reason that people become atheist is they want to shrug off their Christian duty, they fall prey to the temptations of this world and forget Christ.


And this is another misconception of yours. Whether you are in chruch or not, even if you are the pope himself, at the point you stop believing in a god or gods, you are an atheist. It is not a conscious choice you are able to make, only arguments can convince you to believe in something. The reason why more people are leaving religion is because the arguments for religion are weak and the so called words of God are getting unconvinient. Its an unstoppable process that follows with the advancement of society.

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

Quote:No, people are not forgetting their faith, they are discarding it as for the reasons I descriped within the last paragraph below. And as it turns out, many things hat have been declared as sinful are in fact not - which is another reason for discarding faith.


What isn't sinful? Murder? Theft? Bribery? Adultery? These things are all still sinful and against the law save for the later (which is lawful but still frowned upon). Nothing has changed. All the sins mentioned in The Bible are still sins today.

Quote:The reason why more people are leaving religion is because the arguments for religion are weak and the so called words of God are getting unconvinient. Its an unstoppable process that follows with the advancement of society.


Well unless you're Richard Dawkins or Bill Maher, most people in the world are still religious but just frequent church less. As I say for myself: you wouldn't know I was religious in real life if it weren't for my crucifix. I don't speak about religion, I don't go to church, I don't even pray but I still have ardent faith in God like many others I know who follow religion similar to me.

Unfortunately the atheist seems to assume that this means the world has become more "atheist" when it truth it just means people can't be bothered with church. In this age we have working life, increasing taxes and bills and more to worry about. Not to mention the Church doesn't advertise itself well when there's always controversy within it.

However now more than ever, theologians, philosophers, apologists and even scientists are building more and more strong cases for God while the atheist philosophers repeat the same tired and debunked arguments over and over again.

The sad truth is that the words of God still remain convenient 2,000 years later which only shows society isn't progressing when people are still as ****** as ever.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

Quote:What isn't sinful? Murder? Theft? Bribery? Adultery? These things are all still sinful and against the law save for the later (which is lawful but still frowned upon). Nothing has changed. All the sins mentioned in The Bible are still sins today.


Yeah, like dont eating certain types of foods or wearing clothes? Im not talking about murder, theft, bribery and adultery. Almost every athist excepts those things as wrong and you know it.Claiming otherwise is either ignorance or dishonesty if not both.

Quote:Well unless you're Richard Dawkins or Bill Maher, most people in the world are still religious but just frequent church less. As I say for myself: you wouldn't know I was religious in real life if it weren't for my crucifix. I don't speak about religion, I don't go to church, I don't even pray but I still have ardent faith in God like many others I know who follow religion similar to me.


And there are many people who are not religious. And I wouldnt care if you are religious. You can believe in the most stupid **** on earth, I still would not care. To me, your actions matter, not what you believe.

Quote:However now more than ever, theologians, philosophers, apologists and even scientists are building more and more strong cases for God while the atheist philosophers repeat the same tired and debunked arguments over and over again.


Its the other way around.

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

Quote:Yeah, like dont eating certain types of foods or wearing clothes? Im not talking about murder, theft, bribery and adultery. Almost every athist excepts those things as wrong and you know it.Claiming otherwise is either ignorance or dishonesty if not both.


And those laws were practiced by Christians? If I recall, Jesus was constantly accused of breaking Old Testament laws or traditions. Most likely this was down to the priests of those days confusing "elder tradition" with the actual laws but in the case of the adulteress, Jesus didn't stone her as required by OT law.

Hebrews 7:18 and Hebrews 8:13 even tell us that the New Covenant is the one Jesus established where he was the sacrificial lamb. So the OT practices of using a lamb to symbolize the washing away of sins was abolished. Jesus fulfilled that role for all generations. In his statement of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" he abolished stoning for all who are with sin.

Wearing clothes of mixed fabrics was due to sustaining from pagan practices. Thinkingchristian.net This same law is mentioned with a list of other practices pagans did.

Either way unless you can give me sources showing early Christians practicing these laws your argument is moot anyway and we certainly know no Christian afterwards practiced these laws. I'm not even sure the Jews even practice these laws today and that's without atheist intervention.

<_<

Quote:And there are many people who are not religious. And I wouldnt care if you are religious. You can believe in the most stupid **** on earth, I still would not care. To me, your actions matter, not what you believe.


Well you can't fool me otherwise you wouldn't be here. Who amongst us has gone on a killing rampage in the name of Christianity?

Quote:Its the other way around.


I guess you need faith in something, if not God.

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

As for food, Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19). The OT laws were for a hardened nation. At this point I question why you're bringing up OT laws no longer followed by anyone, which were abolished by Jesus himself.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

Quote:And those laws were practiced by Christians?...


How much of a christian you can call yourself, if you leave specific lines out, which you dont like?

Quote:Well you can't fool me otherwise you wouldn't be here. Who amongst us has gone on a killing rampage in the name of Christianity?


You suggest Im here to argue away your faith? What I mean with "I dont care" is rather "I dont mind". Well, guess its a wrong choise of words I made then, sorry if thats the case.

The violonce argument is a two-edged-sword, it works both ways and can hurt on both sides. I could name examples for people who killed in the name of christianity, but so you could name atheist who did horrible crimes. The debate wouldnt end that way.

Quote:I guess you need faith in something, if not God.


Do I? Just because I lack of faith, doesnt mean that there is a void, but rather something else. Maybe extremely ***** fantasies for example which you might have close to zero of it.

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

Quote:How much of a christian you can call yourself, if you leave specific lines out, which you dont like?


I wasn't aware Jesus was contradicting what he said. Remind me again where he stoned the man caught having sexual intercourse with his wife's best friend?

My point was that those laws were not only called outdated by Saint Paul but Jesus himself didn't practice them. I don't care what the last true Jewish sect does in that desert in the middle of nowhere. They can sacrifice animals as they wish and wear only certain clothing if they must but we're Christians and we abide by the New Covenant.

Quote: I could name examples for people who killed in the name of christianity, but so you could name atheist who did horrible crimes. The debate wouldnt end that way.


I mean in this group. It sounds like you suggested you came here because you believe we are doing wrong because we believe and/or are religious.

Quote:Do I? Just because I lack of faith, doesnt mean that there is a void, but rather something else. Maybe extremely ***** fantasies for example which you might have close to zero of it.


Everyone has faith in something. To be faithless is to have no hope in yourself. At that stage you would be in deep depression to the point where you would be considering cutting your wrists rather than talking to me.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

Quote:I mean in this group. It sounds like you suggested you came here because you believe we are doing wrong because we believe and/or are religious.


I came here to point out and correct a few flaws in templarnordbyzantine post. If I mocked your beliefs, than Im sorry for that. It was not my intention.

Quote:Everyone has faith in something. To be faithless is to have no hope in yourself. At that stage you would be in deep depression to the point where you would be considering cutting your wrists rather than talking to me.


I was under the impression you meant, that if I dont have faith in God, that faith would be placed on something else. In that case, it doesnt have to be. But if you mean faith as in the context of trust that the tram for example will arrive at the time as the timetable suggests, then yes. I trust myself, I trust other people ect. I have trust in things which I am confident about.

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TheTriangulum
TheTriangulum

Lol

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

Thank you Martyred Wolf for defending me in my absence. First of all, I wasn't bashing you or atheism, in fact, if anyone should be offended by this article it's Christians.

Wait, let me get this strait, religions other then Christianity keeping to their Christian duty?
Talk about boomerang!
Hey, I'm talking about the troubles I've had with my own faith. I was on the brink of losing my faith, but God kept by me.
Then whats the reason of people becoming religious? Your just proving my argument, "The so called words of God are getting inconvenient." read your comments before posting them, or, as it has just happened, you will get egg on your face. You say you don't care what we believe, yet, why then are you commenting here? If the sick world of today is the advancement of society then we are doomed. Now, your arguments have no meaning, so remove thineself from here or I will be forced to delete your comments.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

I didnt felt offended by your posting and neither is it some sort of hypocrisy to say "well, I dont care what you believe", but pointing out logical flaws in your arguments. I made a response, not to disprove your religious belief, but to correct errors you made.

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

Nevertheless, you can't speak for atheism as a whole, you can only speak for yourself. Hardly anyone will say, "I became atheist because it was too hard to be a Christian." because that would make them sound like jerks. In my opinion, atheism is mostly an excuse, an excuse for not doing what's right. Faith is not a burden, it's a boon.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

Now I feel offended. Atheism is an excuse for not doing the right thing? Atheists can do all the right things just as a christian without relying to a gods will, without being driven by the wish to go to an eternal paradies after death.

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

I wasn't aware Christianity taught there are eternal parodies after death. Parodies of what? My life? Screw that!

Putting that jest of your typo to one side, just what exactly makes you believe we Christians do what is right because we're driven by the wish to go to heaven?

These former-Christians who have become atheists have not started killing people have they? So at heart they were good people, religion or no.

I'm sure you'll find one Christian somewhere who strives to do what is right out of fear of Hell or desire to be in heaven just as likely as you'll find an atheist who only does what is right out of fear of jail.

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

Exactly, so neither of us can actually assume anything about religions as a whole.

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Cervi_Messias
Cervi_Messias

You know you just helped Medusa's point right knight?

Cuz that would be a first
Thank you for that
always knew you were a good honest guy at heart

to templar
people do right or wrong on their own WITHOT religion as a fact, if you are going to be a murderin raping douche it doesn't matter if you believe in a gods or not.
Anybody with half a brain can realize that
you want evidence of this, just look at human history

And Templar track record wise atheists have actually killed less and cause far less human suffering
than those claiming to be religious have through human history so your point is not only wrong but an outright blatant lie
If I believed your god was real I would feel sorry for you, I mean isn't one of the ten commandments "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"?

Think about that

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

Anyone with half a brain would have read the comment below before judging someone, I'm saying that atheism is an excuse to not honor God, not as an excuse to do evil.

Are you kidding me?! Atheists have been in existences for a shorter time than Christians so of course Christians have killed more people!

I am not insulting atheism, but by your comment your just showing atheists as jerks that judge before they think.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

Quote:I'm saying that atheism is an excuse to not honor God


Wrong. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god in the first place, so there is noone to apologize to. If your God wants to change that, he could easily prevent it, by showing a verifiable evidence for his existence for all eternaty. He supposedly created the universe after all, so that should be childs play for him.

Quote:Are you kidding me?! Atheists have been in existences for a shorter time than Christians so of course Christians have killed more people!


You are an atheist to heathens for example, because you dont believe in their gods. So your point is quite mood.

Quote:I am not insulting atheism, but by your comment your just showing atheists as jerks that judge before they think.


Atheism has nothing you could insult unlike religion.

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

Really? The only reason you would believe in God is if he proved it? Then the purpose God wanted to accomplish would be gone, you wouldn't have faith. God did things like that in elder times, but did it help? No, all you have to do is read about the Jews travailing to the promise land and you now it's true. Besides, eventually people would forget the proof and just say it was made up, (As has happened before.)Insult? How about this, evolution THEORY, Big bang THEORY, string THEORY. And you say we have blind faith. I could show proof of God, but you would just disregard it, as is the atheist way, you say Christians won't listen to facts, but it is atheists who do not listen to the proof.

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

@Cervi

I don't care if I helped his point. All I aim to do is speak the truth in these cases without bias. This is never about "winning" but simply telling the facts.

Quote:"And Templar track record wise atheists have actually killed less and cause far less human suffering"


Well you just broke the "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" commandment yourself too then because this is just blatant ignorance here. Asides from being a VERY small minority throughout history and even today, atheists have never really been in any position of power.

It goes to reason you'll find more bad Christians because there's more Christians running around generally (over two billion to be precise - 31.5% of world population) as opposed to atheists (over five hundred and fifty million - 2.0% of world population) but this doesn't eliminate bad atheists altogether as people as Pol Pot and Stalin have proved. Atheist dictator states still exist in China and North Korea.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

Quote:...but this doesn't eliminate bad atheists altogether as people as Pol Pot and Stalin have proved. Atheist dictator states still exist in China and North Korea.


You shouldnt bring up this point, because you can easily shoot you into your own leg with this. Also, dont compare those dictors personal beliefs with atheism, let alone with the secular movement that goes into the exact opposit direction of dictatorship.

Besides, there are 1.2 billion atheists and agnostics (combined), so its not a small number.

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

Quote:Also, dont compare those dictors personal beliefs with atheism, let alone with the secular movement that goes into the exact opposit direction of dictatorship.


Communism is an atheistic ideology. I was simply arguing against Cervi's statement. One can easily look at ideologies born from atheism which have done terrible things. People have done terrible things in the name of anti-theism and anti-religion (burning down churches and killing religious people).

Quote:Besides, there are 1.2 billion atheists and agnostics (combined), so its not a small number.


There's about 550 million atheists at maximum. Agnostics are a mixed bunch and most of them full into the category of "I don't know and I think both the theists and atheists are arguing a pointless cause" rather than the few who are on one side of the extreme.

Not to mention atheism is declining.

Cnsnews.com

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

Quote:Communism is an atheistic ideology. I was simply arguing against Cervi's statement. One can easily look at ideologies born from atheism which have done terrible things. People have done terrible things in the name of anti-theism and anti-religion (burning down churches and killing religious people).


There are communistic/marxistic christians who disagree with you.

Most communistic totaliterian regimes happened to be born out of religion and stayed as religion. Note that such a dictatorship, especially if its a brutal one, requires leader or state worshipping. And so far, what you call communism was socialism at best, the attempt to install communism, but it drifted away from that concept.

A system born out of atheism is secularism which ironically provides freedom of religion and from religion for the government, so religion can remain a free institution. Just because Stalin for example was an atheist doesnt imply that his follower were - and by fact, people worshipped him.

Quote:There's about 550 million atheists at maximum. Agnostics are a mixed bunch and most of them full into the category of "I don't know and I think both the theists and atheists are arguing a pointless cause" rather than the few who are on one side of the extreme.

Not to mention atheism is declining.


Agnosticism is not a neutral ground. Many atheist are also agnostics as christians can be agnostic. Answering the question "does God exist?" with either yes or no is pointless, because you cannot prove the God hypothesis. In that case, "I dont know" is a highly qualified and honest respond. Answering the question "Do you believe in God?" with yes or no on the other hand, is perfectly legit.

Dont bother me if atheism is declining, as long as we aim for secularism and not for theocratic principles.

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

Quote:There are communistic/marxistic christians who disagree with you.


A rare breed then, who overlook that Marxism and Communism were made by an atheist.

Quote:Note that such a dictatorship, especially if its a brutal one, requires leader or state worshipping. And so far, what you call communism was socialism at best, the attempt to install communism, but it drifted away from that concept.


In your opinion but your opinion (unfortunately for you) is not the actual reality. What has been imposed in those states is indeed Communism. North Korea has the very same state worshipping you talk about and it's an atheist state.

Quote:A system born out of atheism is secularism which ironically provides freedom of religion and from religion for the government, so religion can remain a free institution. Just because Stalin for example was an atheist doesnt imply that his follower were - and by fact, people worshipped him.


Secularism wasn't even born from atheism, ironically (try Deism) and people worshipped Stalin the same way people worship celebrities today. By your logic, no one is a real atheist such as your hypothetical best atheist friend who worships Rihanna, Rita Ora, Asa Akira etc in place of a god.

There's a difference between idol worship and worship of an actual god. The former is atheistic, the later is theistic. You seem to imply that worship makes someone a theist which is a ridiculous conclusion.

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

In my opinion doing whats right is honoring the person that is responsible for your creation.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

And that would be who, besides of my parents?

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

God, clearly. That's what he was saying. Clearly you disagree.

In templarnordbyzantine's statement, if you do good, you honour God.

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bontanel
bontanel

Why Palaiologos? Just why?

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

What?

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Baron Brosephus Creator
Baron Brosephus

Don't mind him. He's probably another troll here to mock and jeer.

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bontanel
bontanel

In the news section. That is the coat of arms of the Palaiologos family, right? The last ruling dynasty of byzantium.

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bontanel
bontanel

why the image? that was my question

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

Oh. The reason being that the Byzantines were a very good example of a good Christian kingdom, tolerant, unified, and not afraid of new ideas.

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bontanel
bontanel

But why the Palaiologos? The dynasty brought to extinction by the Ottomans? BTW see Nestorianism if you think the byzantine were such a tolerant people...

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

Constantine XI is my favorite Emperor of the Byzantines.
If you seek to insult the Byzantines I will delete your comment right now.

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bontanel
bontanel

Insulting the Byzantines? Whaaaaat? they weren't some kind of perfect society you know. If you're still unconvinced see Iconoclasm .

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

I'm not saying they were a perfect society, but if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't exist or we'd all be speaking Turkish right now.

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bontanel
bontanel

You do realize that the only thong they did was fighting each other while the Rumnites, Seljuks, Ottomans, Karaman, Kandir and many other turkish nations conquered them? The actual reason for us not speaking turkish right now are late eastern european empires such as the Hapsburgs and Russians. For all i know the Byzantines weren't very historically successful at least not for the last 400 years of their existence.

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

The only thong? THONG?! *FACEPALM* They stopped a lot of dangerous forces that would of wiped out Europe. They technically were Christendom's meat shield. I repeat my warning, do not bash the Byzantines or I shall delete your comments.

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bontanel
bontanel

"The only thong? THONG?! *FACEPALM*" what? Has your finger never slipped? The "I" and "o" are quite close you know... They didn't stopped these forces, they were overwhelmed by them because they couldn't work together, even in the face of danger... The Ottoman Empire's existence proves my point. BTW I'm not bashing the Byzantines, I'm simply trying to prove my point and by simply deleting this comment you will not disprove it. I think we both agree that a calm debate without censorship and Grammar debating would be so much better.

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

I've had mistakes like that too and I'm not insulting your grammar but......thong? lol. I'm not just speaking of the Ottomans, their where a lot of other people they stopped. One of the Byzantines strongest traits, stubbornness, it led their Empire to ruin, but it keeps it's people alive in the face of persecution. Sorry if I seem defensive, but the Byzantines are one of the only cultures that I consider worthy of my respect, yet they are hardly given the respect they deserve these days.

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

I'm debating deleting this, all it has gotten us was a lot of atheist trolls.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

If you cant tell the difference between trolling and critic or debate, then it sure is better to forget about it completely.

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

I would call someone saying that I "have half a brain" trolling.

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Medusa_Zenovka
Medusa_Zenovka

Yeah, but no one called you that. Cervi said what you mentioned, but as far as I get it he expressed the obviousness of his point from his perspective.

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Baron Brosephus Creator
Baron Brosephus

If you don't mind, people, I have a few more pearls to cast.

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templarnordbyzantine Author
templarnordbyzantine

OK then, but I don't think I'll bother answering comments on this anymore.

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InsanityPays
InsanityPays

I became an atheist because I simply don't believe in gods, not because I was too lazy "fulfill my duty as a christian".

There is such a thing as secular moral philosophy.

+I've probably put in more volunteer hrs in my community than most christians my age

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KnightofEquulei
KnightofEquulei

"+I've probably put in more volunteer hrs in my community than most christians my age"

Nice generalization. You respond to a generalization in the article ("most people become atheist because of being lazy to fulfil their duty as a Christian") with your own generalization.

In both cases, there are no statistics to support either claims.

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