opposite side disscussion Thread - C&C Paradise

so whats up? what was it that drives some too flame wars? lets try to understand

I think that if you judge one game by a standard, you have to keep that standard.

Example, Calling RA3 Cartoony, and yet "forgetting" that RA2 was just as cartoony, just without the colorful shaders.

Another Example: People talk about how the CnC4 scorpion looks derp, yet the CnC2 Wolverine looks like a walking coffin.

I'm just fighting a double standard. What others do is there own method, and madness. This is mine.

ok that explains why you fight but what i still can't get is what is it that you seek to achieve? i guess its changing how others think and behave, but seriously nothing will change that. you and your friend can continue until this group is destroyed or someone gets banned or the war from lybia gets worldwide and everything collapses but even then some will still hate c&c 4 and wont change the way how they judge things. so far the fighting only led to more tightening up defenses and frustration.

it seems that it can't be solved with a simple "can't we all just get along" but this is what we actually should seek to achieve for. we are c&c fans, and this is the moddb home for c&c fans. if you don't feel at home here, than we have an issue. an issue which needs fixing. but you can't fix stuff by kicking between its balls.

Yes, but you can judge it evenly.
I mean you have not stopped Flaming against RA3 or CnC4 at all, and only considered it when the flames hit the "Saint" CnC2!

I could go to the comments and say "CnC4 is a stain upon Command and conquer" and be praised but if I say "I don't like parts of Tib Sun" I get called a troll and kicked out. I want equal say, I dont want this lop sided favoritism.

And I dont want to force people to like CNC4, I just dont want things like Moddb.com where people just hate and use flames for no reason but to flame. Read that and imagine if it was about a game YOU like. Would you get worked up if you saw that everywhere, Institutionalized into almost every CnC site around? could you ignore it if it followed you everywhere?

Some people can't, and some people have a breaking point. I dont have much on my rope left, and some have already snapped. Next move is yours.

Simple; flame wars are started when nerds can't grasp that people have differing opinions on games (or movies, or anything). They assume they're correct, and anyone who disagrees must be a terribly wrong person. And then people like me come in and turn it right around, and nerds cry because their infallible toys are shown to be quite flawed.

You just admitted yourself that you refuse to change your viewpoints, so that means simply discussing it is useless, and thus you validate my methods as being the only way to make you asshats shut up, because when YOU'RE being flamed, suddenly your at a loss for words.

No the discussion itself is not useless! And to get this straight PsychoticLoner you have no clue what my viewpoint is, you see a comment from me that is nearly a year old and imagine some shit around it that should be my viewpoint to you. There is no validation for your shit flaming, trolling, hateful miss behavior. You turn nothing right around, you just heat the fire some more and want to burn it all down, ow yea i m sure this is going to help us all.

What are you calling me an asshat for? for telling my honest opinion in a thread that asks for what i think about a game? or on a group that is called c&c4 love it or hate it? everyone is free to tell his opinion where it is welcome and does not hurt. This group is not responsible for anyone's miss-behavior on other places. you ain't a hero and i would like to see who elected you as EA's holy bringer of justice. why don't you send ea a mail about what you do here, i wonder how they would react, bet you think they are damn proud of you.

back to you Jason_Zombolt and anyone else reading this. I am glad to have this discussion here, the praising and loving and hating for some stuff has clearly taken overhand and is threatening members and projects. Do you remember the Command & Conquer Westwood & EA Fans group? Moddb.com I would like to let people know about this group. my close friend founded it, he is a c&c fan and a reaaaly tight one. thought he dislikes how ea influenced the c&c series he originally created the group for both westwood and ea fans of c&c. he had lots of plans, faith and all the good stuff you have for a group when you found it. now he is tired of moddb and i can understand him. why? the first comment he got is about changing the name to only westwood. after a short while he got comments like "die and destroy this group because they like ea." the hate faced towards him was so much that for the survival of the group he had to change its name. now the group has 22 comment pages with a huge majority of hateful shit. they got what they wanted and let it fall. apart from me and a few others no one keeps it alive. it is sad because there is some pretty nifty stuff on it like Moddb.com . an interview from the father of the c&c series. newer c&c games are as the credits say "based on the original c&c" by totally different people. this is what i and many others feel when playing the newer games. with each new game in the series it feels less like c&c. no wonder the whole staff behind it changed. worst for me is how it went all silly and how they broke the universes apart. kane was in ra. but i am drifting away.

hey does anyone of you see the group leader of the westwood group flaming whining trolling around? no! he does not. he went over to something else. and i am sure he does not wish you to do this. do you see me doing such stuff? no not anymore, i went over to something else. dudes its a game series now owned by a big company that can clearly take care of itself and does not need anyone defending it especially in such a destructive way.

hey don't let your head loose just because some mock you. tell what you like about the newer games and what you dislike about older ones. the group is here for that, discussions about c&c. if you get a reply by someone like you are a piece of shit then let him this shouldn't offend you, be mature about it and leave such crap alone. there are others like admins to take care of this. when they don't then tell them but not overwhelm them with blame and whining and allegation. also the comments are here for anyone to tell their comment, free and hopefully honest.

you feel like being a c&c fan? you own any of the c&c games? well then have fun here and let others have fun here too because in this case you are a c&c fan and this is their home on moddb. i hope this discussion can help in making it home for every c&c fan.

ow and to let you both and others who read this know, i am only a c&c fan, a member of this group, and co-leader of the Command & Conquer Westwood Fans group and i told this whole stuff only representing me and my opinion. so don't get stuff said mixed up!

I do like that the dialogue is happening, and that orange is articulating his words better than some people around here(Mastodon)

I, as a CnC fan, believe that I have no say on what is or is not a CnC, but as a CnC Modder putting months on months of my life, ideas, stories, heart, sweat, and health into a game, I feel I have a little more to say about such a series that Joe Mastif out there saying what ever comes to mind.

I have said things in a clear and methodical way, what you and others seem to thing is that my explanations are flames, because it happened at the same time as flames, well there not. If you took time to read the opposite argument before out Glorious moderator deleted them, It started with a critique of Tiberiam Sun, a game that is not perfect. Then the flame started. PA might be in it for shear vengeance, and I can understand that.But I am here to make you understand. Though some of the members here are D-bags. but that is how it is in any fandom, you get D-bags. but the sign of a mature group is how you deal with them. and so far, it has been sub-par. I want you(the group) to learn so when people join, who like the EA made games don't come into a derp storm for the "saint" CnC2.

And I never said TS was a Bad Game, I said that it has Ugly designs, witch in my opinion it dose. And Opinions have been said before in the comment section.

Edited by: Jason_King_of_Salt

Jason_Zombolt wrote: I think that if you judge one game by a standard, you have to keep that standard.

Example, Calling RA3 Cartoony, and yet "forgetting" that RA2 was just as cartoony, just without the colorful shaders.

I have to be honest here I didn't like Red Alert 2 either at this same reason because of the cartoony effects and over-sized infantry.

My favorite game is Tiberian Sun and I will admit in Tiberian Sun Infantry is over-sized, this is why I play my Tiberian Sun with this mod Moddb.com which also makes the scale of most units alot better then original like infantry and walkers E.G. Titans and Wolverines.
if you're a Nod fan you might like this mod as well it fixes the fail texture on the Devils thoung flame tank to a more lets say metal harden look.

Edited by: The_Mastodon

In my oppinion, sure go ahead and say what you think about a game, but give the details why. Not just EA sucks but what is it in the game one dislikes? Is it the lack of infantry? Is it the lack of strategy or tactics? Is it the atmosphere or gameplay?

It's everything about C&C4 I don't like there you have it, I couldn't be more specific. actaully I don't mind not being able to build buildings it's okay for some RTS but for C&C it's all about building up your base.

@GriffinZ That is what I want.

@Mastodon It's ok not to like something, but realise that some peopledo, and when you and othes tyrade on every forum, fangroup and medium saying that EA should burn, or CnC4 is the worst thing since Space AIDS, it takes a tool on those who like it. Things like that make people like Loner. I'm surprised there are not more like him with all the one sided hate going around. Maybe without this Dialogue, I would have joined him, I was planing. But the choice is still in everyones hands.

Dude you got me all wrong,
I never said such things and I've never been on any other page then ModDB and talk about C&C.

Edited by: The_Mastodon

But people have. And you throwing salt on the torched ground dose not make people feel any better.

-Edit-
Having a forum persona and a comment persona dose not fool me. If you want to be a jerk everywhere, be consistent.

Edited by: Jason_King_of_Salt

Just asking, but what kicked off the arguments anyways? óÓ

To answer your question and to show how messed up things have gotten also in the past. i have recently received a personal message by a member who wants to stay anonymous. i will now copy and paste it in an edited form to hide his/hers identity:

I'd rather not post on a forum but since you're one of the few people in the majority side that seem to have a level head then here's my gripe with the current running of things.

Moddb.com First comment, C&C 4 hate.
Moddb.com This is just trolling.

2 of many images that just made me ask "why?"

The only reason I join (notice I said join rather than joinED) C&C paradise is to may add maps of *** to it, I instantly leave the group when that is done. Why? Because I'm ashamed to be a part of C&C. It's one of a handful of reasons why I dropped my maps of *** before i added them. All it will bring is EA haters saying how *** and how EA ruined everything.

Ranting over, what I would like to see is a fanbase. What the C&C "community" is at the moment is split into: Nostalgic fans of the earliest day's of C&C, the Westwood Martyrs/EA haters and the people that don't care and just enjoy the games. The SAGE fans group is what the C&C fanbase appears to be like if you take away all of the needless hate, i.e. inactive with not much else to do.

What makes me really sad and now even angry is that there are members who already resist of telling what they have to say because they fear of their projects being attacked or themselves. There is stuff dropping from to-do lists. Guys we better think of a solution quick and properly and No burning this place down is Not an option (just saying). I think of an overall agreement of some sort of but a proper one. And maybe once and for all a declaration of how ea messed the C&C series up so that its said once and for all and can rest in peace rather than steady image and video updates and polls forum threads etc. that however is just an idea that came in my mind while i am being sad and angry at the same time. any ideas and wishes are very welcome.

*edit: i asked the member for allowance before posting, the member knows its here and gave allowance to post it.

Edited by: OrangeNero

You had me all with you until this line-

Orange131326 wrote:
a declaration of how ea messed the C&C series up

Why? You made so much sense, then you drop that line? Why would you do that? Westwood made plenty of mistakes, like making the TS engine the haggled mess that it is, not using the CNC n64 3d engine when they were years ahead of other RTS's, only slightly updating it for RA2, Not releasing ANY Modding tools, forcing the Community to make them, and more. You have to acknowledge that BOTH studio's have faults, not just EA.

This is one of the Devising moments in the CnC Fandom and you are suggesting something that will not help as it stands.

that is 1 of many options and really just an idea. i just consider a very wide variety. also in an agreement wont be stuff people can't agree with. if you can't agree with such a declaration than it wont be included this way or not at all. i struggled a lot to write this, wrote and scraped and wrote it again before posting. yet everywhere people come up and say how messed up it is so saying it on one place so that it is said and doesn't need to get said again for an eternity.

its not written in stone yet, just shouted into the woods just keeping every option open.

*edit: without a doubt has westwood made faults too. so far i don't really know how an agreement or declaration should look like and consist of. well it should aim for a "we all get along". it would help a lot if people and especially those who have been active in the recent day's would list up what they essentially need to see in such an agreement and/or declaration.

still open for any ideas and wishes and sorts.

Edited by: OrangeNero

Yes, but you read the atmosphere right, yet let that slip. Not cool ok?

But I agree, this is not going to be an overnight thing.

Can't we all get along? :'(

Jason_Zombolt wrote: But I agree, this is not going to be an overnight thing.

Most things like this are not. I wouldn't be surpried if this lasts for another few weeks.

working and believing in it. ok

Now what is said and what is done are two different things. This means evening unjust karma, and calling people out on there BS among other things.

You know, if this works, I might even rejoin.

All I say now, is that PsychoticLoner has no idea why I or many other think that for example Tiberian Sun is great game. It is because of the atmosphere, great feeling while playing and the storyline. Yes the graphics may look crappy but it is because the game came out in 1999!!! They didn't have damn equipment we have today, to create various stuff in 3D.

And PsychoticLoner said that I should respect new games; If I didn't respect newer games, I wouldn't own C&C3, RA3, C&C4 or Battlefield Bad Company 2. I have played all of them for hours, and I respect them very much, C&C4 little less than the others.

I think PsychoticLoner should be quiet, and stop commenting about it anymore, because even he himself knows that the discussion is not going anywhere.

I like all C&C games, I have played all of them (except RA3 Uprising) and I will remain as loyal C&C fan, who still thinks all strategy C&C games from 1995 to 2001 were full of epicness, as well as the newer games from 2003 to 2010.

From my point of view, end of discussion.

Due to wall of text: TL;DR

A certain someone is post flaming because we don't agree with his point of view and goes apeshit when a joke/comment/mention of how the latest C&C games sucked or didn't meet the expectations.

People still have opinions, you can't get them all to agree with one thing but some will still think only their opinion matters and feel obligated to inform everyone how their own opinion > other people's opinions.

Exactly!