Atheists, Agnostics, and Anti-theists of ModDB
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This is how it seems to work in america,
I gt this crap all the time
(buried)
the bible is the only authority that counts at the end of the day. kind of like you would not keep questioning why a certain law is in place. also the bible is not the only evidence of God. also the bible has been proven by events like the red sea parting. so if a bunch of it is true then we should assume that the rest it true too. there was a very good quote in the lion the witch and the wardroom, movie. basically the professor was talking with Peter and Susan about whether what Lucy said was true or not. and summed up the professor said, "well if she's not mad and she's not lieing then we must assume she's telling the truth"
You do realize you're stating what you say is true as though your assurance of them being true is the evidence that which makes them true.
"the bible is the only authority that counts at the end of the day."
"the bible is not the only evidence of God."
"the bible has been proven by events like the red sea parting."
You provide no justification for any of these things at all, except for a quote from the Chronicles of Narnia, bravo. Usually people would prove the bible is true by quoting the bible but you're one step above it seems, you prove it's true by quoting the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Congrats!
"so if a bunch of it is true then we should assume that the rest it true too."
Even if you don't think this is intellectually stupid (why would base your beliefs on something you assume to be correct?), wouldn't this be an evidence of Sloth? Which i believe is a cardinal sin... Say a couple Hail Mary's before responding to this comment :)
Okay, I though I covered all the evidence in previous posts. So I was adding to my previous statements with this comment, which I admit was a very dumb idea since people don't read all the pages of stuff I write:D oh well it gets quite loathsome repeating the same thing in every single debate:(
No. The Bible is no authority at all, to me, because it's wrong. Oh did the red sea part? Can you prove that? Noah's flood for example, Did not happen.
Noah's flood is possible. However I'm open to debates agianst it:)
Meteor hitting water = flood. Nah jk, but what about this? I.eatliver.com Aint this at least a lil bit awkward? lol xD
Very good observation, however I could debate. 1. it is possible that people were larger back then so their measurements could have been different. (hypothsis which could be proven by large human skeletons. Also by logic if considered that the atmosphere could have been better, and the fact that they lived 900+ could also impact their growth, also their diet could have allowed for better growth) 2. Noah took every kind of animal on board the ark, that's not as much as modern species. 3. It never says how old the creatures are. 4. Some insects might have been able to survive outside the ark, even though unlikely, it's still worth considering. 5. The ark had 3 floors if I remmeber correctly so that allows more room then just one floor. 6. Animals were not terrified of humans before the flood. 7. it is also highly possible for all animals to be herbivores before the flood. (end of the first chapter of genesis is what I'm basing this point on) 8. The KJV implies that God was on the ark. 9. All the animals could have free roamed the ark, nobody would get eaten, and nobody would be scared. 10. Some of the animals could have slept more(bears) 11. If God was on the ark (like pointed out earlier) then God (who has power over all that he made) could have fed the animals by simply telling them where they have food and that they are not to eat it all. So there, if I missed something let me know:)
Well, i still don't see how in the word should they all fit in ship. I mean, all together would require massive ship, and that size is not steerable well, and how did it get speed to move? I quess the answer from beleaver would be, that god moved it himself, but meh, not an answer to me lol. So, unless the animals in ARK were in vials (like DNA or so), i see no possible way that so many were in one tiny ship :D. But again, we don't have any evidence to support the question, that did it exist or not (No more evidence that is written in the Bible). So yeh lol :)
What was the purpose of the ark? Was it to sail around the earth? No. Was it to sail a lake, ocean while not hitting the shore? No, there wasn't any shore. So was the purpose of it just so that it floats? Yes. Did it need any kind of steering? No. So I don't see why you say "a ship that size could not possibly steer or go forward. And where they landed was probably thanks to the fact that God (since God can teleport, walk on water, part a sea, etc) God can alter the currents/plate tectonics/wind to have them land exacly where they did(on a mountain)
Well, yea people say that all the word was under water. But, how did the animals get on different continents? I guess god just put them there right? No more explanation needed cause it is simply true :D And, when exactly (how many years ago) did the ARK exist btw? Bible should have clear refference of years or atleast dates, havent looked into the bible so closely yet due the lack of time needed for more important things in life :).
Many Christians have proposed the idea that the newly formed oceans were lower then what they are now. The main reasoning behind that is that because of the flood there was an ice age which decreased ocean levels for a couple hundred years. So animals could walk across the land. Also people were intelligent and Sortly after the flood everyone spoke the same langue. Which God had to end since they were going to mess up his plan and become evil again. So after they dicided to make a tower to God (sounds ridicules since God is 2 heavens above the ground:D) anyways their intention was wrong since had they finished the creation of such a tower, and had everyone still spoken the same langue, we would have incredible tech by today. Just look at how much technology has improved every since the English langue became a common trade langue. God also knew that very quickly after the completion of the tower the human race would become just like before the flood. Evil. So God had to mess up the people's langue so they could not accomplish what they wanted. It wasn't the building that was bad, it was the intention.
Okay as for dates, dates are quite clear for most of genesis. After that it's a bit hard to made out the exact dates. But if we add up the dates of genesis chapter 5, and later genesis chapter 10. So if you put all those dates on a graph you get something like: Swartzentrover.com Jelia.files.wordpress.com I recomend reading those 2 chapters if you wish to know all the generations of the significant people of that time. Anyways that puts the flood at about 1656 after creation. For how much years ago that was from today, some creationist say it was aproximatly 4400 years ago and that creation was about 6000 years ago, which doesn't cause too much issues since the genealogies listed in Matthew and Luke have have aproximatly 77 generations in them.(at least Luke does.) Matthew counts from Abraham and Luke counts from Adam, so there's a bit of a difference there. Giving each generation 80 years on average, (which accounts for the longer generations at the beginning and for shorter generations near the end) so 80*77=6,160 approximate age of the earth.
well yea ice age was one possibility to travel, but it did not cover whole earth (only norther side of globe), so they still had no means to go to southern islands (Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii etc.) due the oceans and water level (cause there was no place the water could go away to clear walkable path).
But why god cares if we rise against him or not? I mean, he does not get anything from us nor require, and i dont think all people would have become evil when tower was to be completed. There are good people and bad people, but why he punishes good people as well then (like gave different language to ALL persons, not just builders)? The overall stories about God make him look a lil bit too much arrogant and self centered in my eyes. But that is just me lol :)
Creatures could have gotten to Australia, it's harder for me to explain hawaii and new Zealand. Nez Zealand could have been linked with australia. I just looked at a the earth on google maps and it seems possible. Also people being intelegent could have made boats and sailed to those parts of the world. I mean they could have even made airplanes!! 2atoms.com
So why havent they found any aircraft in the earth? Well one possiblity is that they were made from a decayble material. (aka wood)
Yet God sent his begotten Son to die so that we might have life.
Well yea, they could have sailed there as well, but it is a long way and i dont think they just would wander off on sea-adventure lol.
And the airplanes, yes i know about the miniature models (the ones in gold are Incan models and wooden one is Egyptian). They even proven that bigger size of those models are able to fly. So there may have been advaced races on earth before and humans made replica of things they saw at that time the best way they could (like models of gold/stone example, cause they will last thousand years). But, the golden one required engine to fly, so us (humans few thousand years ago) would not possibly made those with low tech. So, unless you beleave in other races in the galaxy, its hard to explain so many things found on earth :).
Like this for example: Geeksaresexy.net. It has been all over the TV news around here lately. But it is funny that they made the refference to Millenium Falcon from Star Wars xD. Anyways, there are thousands of unaswered stories/buildings/sites (Atlantis, Stonehenge etc.), what are quite hard questions to be answered.
Yes there are a lot of mysteries. I think that with the bible as a light on the past all of these can be explained. Let's face it, humans were intelegent since the beginning. Adam named all the creatures that God made right infront of him after he put him in the garden. Of course the creatures might have been more along the line of kinds so Adam didn't have that much work. Also Cain built a city and named it after his son Enoch. (genesis 4:17) people are not stupid, however great knowledge is lost quickly.
An example of that would be when they burned "witches" destroying the knowledge of herbs with them. Humans are not as dumb as some would think. Here's an example of what might have happened, so some time in the future about 50 years from now humans destroy each other and in the process destroy their own technology. The few survivers flee to the mountains(remote areas) to live. There they set up life agian without the technology that they had, however they happened to grab some things from their home before it was leveled by a bomb. Those things include: simple day to day items (like watches, phones, pictures, etc) children might have grabed some things (like a toy airplane, a teddy bear, toys, etc) and of course they still have their memories of what the world once was. Now after about 2000 years the newer generations begin to doubt the stories actually happened, especially since they were changed so that they could be understood better by those that didn't see something like that. And so after about 2000 years what remains? Only ancient legends, myths, metal airplanes that nobody knows what they are for, and other items that nobody even remembers the purpose of. Meaning that it is very possible for there to be an extremely intelligent civilization right before the flood. And after the flood they still had a bunch of the knowledge but when they lost their common langue, a lot of their knowledge was lost. (ie books, scrolls, other written documents would have no use to them) the bible survived because God said that he will preserve his word. Even for a while after their loss of langue they still had the technology, a doctor doesnt stop being a doctor if his speech changes. However the odds of new doctors learning what he knows is a bit more difficult.
Sorry for writting so much, I usally do that:)
Lol no problem in long text, at least you say all that is on your mind :D
I agree completely with you. It has been in discussion in historian societies, that over time, man destroys the world and few survivors start fresh, and over the time the knowledge will be lost. So, the tech we have atm could be rediscovery of long lost knowledge. Anything is possible.
Anyways, i have recently discovered an show, Youtube.com (this episode is about mythical beasts) and this one: Youtube.com (ancient buildings) .I find it quite interresting show, you should watch it from episode one and on if you have time :). Havent been watching all episodes yet, but they kinda make things more clearer lol :). But anyways, watch those 2 episodes and tell me what ya think of things in there :).
I love history, at least when I'm the one who dicides what I'll be learning about:) I don't much enjoy social studies and all the history of Canada, I enjoy learning about something that doesn't make the headlines.
And I'll watch those videos, I got tons of time on my hands right now, well it's slightly shortened by debating on Moddb, but I still got hours of time.
Watching this at about 1-2am was not a smart idea...oh well the lord my God will keep me safe. I'm scared easily, even though all logic is telling me not to be scared my sub-conciseness tells me that I'm scared so that's what happens:(
Anyways I believe that God made the world and all that in it is just like he said he did. Aliens are demons that have been cast out of heaven. There are 3 heavens, which God made form one heaven. There is the sky, where the birds fly. There is the cosmos where the stars, planets and galaxies are. There is the place where God dwells. I have heard a several fellow Christians say that Satan and his followers dwell in the heaven between the sky and God. Aka the 2nd heaven or space. Also genesis talks about the sons of God (angles/fallen angles) seeing the daughters of men and marrying them since they though that they were very beautiful. Anyways the demons (since God's angles would have been restricted from doing something like that to what the lord created) anyways the demons mated with the earthly women and they bore giants onto them. Pretty much demons+humans=giants.
So that is why I believe that we were and still are visited by demons. However a Christiank should not fear Satan or demons since Jesus had the power to cast them out. So if aliens were demons then clearly their purpose was to disprove God. To exalt themselves above God. So that would explain why they might have tampered with DNA. Which would also explain why some cultures had things like human sacrifice, preferably young children. For the sake of stemcells. God saw this as an abomination so he had cultures that practiced this destroyed, and their knowledge went with them. So another explaination is that humans had that kind of technology but God destroyed them because of their evil. Also I heard it some place(not sure where or if it's correct) but reptiles grow until they die. So an iguana(given a 100 years of a perfect climate) could be the size of a football field. And since it seems that creatures could live longer before and shortly after the flood. Such a theory makes sense:) lastly tons of dinosaurs were rapidly burried durring the flood, so instead of trying to explain everything from an evolutionist worldveiw they(scientists) should consider other possiblities. (ie. a worldwide flood)
Sorry for another TL:DR
Mmk i will look into the stuff when i have some spare time lol :)
The Sphinx is supposed to be underwater in the past yea, check here for short overview if you are interested: Egypt-tehuti.org .
But cant a cult be right as well? It started off from somewhere just like christianity. Why they could not be right as well? The world is multi-god society atm, and we cant possibly say that this God is right, that God is wrong. It seems kinda wrong to label God's as right or wrong (i mean, why cant Hindu God's be real for example?).
But, what happens to the people who are good in heart and mind, but don't believe in God (or perhaps even havent heard of him before), when the so called Judgement day (or how it was called) happen? And also i think that eternal life is kinda curse, i mean, you spend eternity of doing nothing in heaven and have everything you ever want. I cant imagine myself to live like that, too boring lol, i would choose rebirth or something over that lol :).
"I mean, they could even tampered with neanderthal DNA to make us, the humans." here I disagree! This is exacly what satan wants us to believe, that he made us, except that God made us. And the Neanderthal could have been just a very old human. (800+years old)
"Like Mormons, they are not like Christians who beleave god is eternal and always been here."
Some people (me including) would call them a cult. A cult is pretty much a group that values a teachers teachings more then what God actually said in his book, called the bible. Catholics add/take away a bunch of stuff to/from the bible. Even though God forbid such a thing! Yes God wrote the 10 comandments and gave them to Moses, and the second comandment was altered by Catholics. Why because it didn't allow for them to sell idols and the pagan nations liked their carvings and statues.
"And, well, i am kinda on their side with my own beliefs, that people started to worship other cultures in galaxy rather than actual God."
Some people could misuse the things that people do not understand. So the small group of people could have invented things like that, (from what they remembered from past stories) to get people to follow them. And be careful since there are 3 heavens and I worship the God of the third heaven. The second heaven is where the demons have been cast down to.
"Maybe in few hundred years the question is solved"
Don't wait, since the bible has a prophecy that people of the end days will be like the people of the days of Noah, ignorant of what is going to happen, and evil. The evil part is already coming together, and so is the ignorant part. Jesus also said in John 3:14 (I think) anyways he said something like, "if you do do not believe earthly things then how can you believe heavenly things?" he nailed it right here. People will not believe the biblical acount of creation (which is earthly) so how can they believe in God, or in eternal life for that matter? If your really interested about the past and different theories check: www.drdino.com www.creationtoday.org and genesis week on YouTube. Also check my moddb profile. I posted 2 great videos on there:)
God will live among people. Kind of how Adam and Eve walked with God before they sinned. Also Jesus will be the light of heaven. Since a sun/star burns up after a time therefore there must be a better light source without the radiation. (Jesus!)
As for what king of body will we have? Well it says quite clearly that we will have the resurrected body. The one that Jesus had after he rose from the dead. He could eat, walk, live, be visible, he was touchable, and he could walk through walls:)
I personally rather live eternally with God then simply get judged and then thrown into a lake of fire where my soul gets destroyed.
Well i like history too so i wathc all kinds of shows that will present different theories and views, that is how i got across that show.
But i find it curious, that the firs documented sightings of flying vehicles made from iron or steel were before man has anything remotly capable of flight (end of 19'th century if i remember correctly). And, since humans did not know the word airplane, they named it thunderbird or skydemon (due it fly, possibly jet engine made fire). So basically, they tried to explain things they did not understand with simple words.
And i find the ancient nuclear blast in in Rajasthan, India very curious. I mean, how in word could a nuclear blast happen over 10 000 years ago lol, and destroy the entire city. The place is still quite radioactive, some of the walls have melted to glass (due they used sandblocks for some buildings, and sand melts to glass on hig temp). All those unexplained things are so interesting lol :D. The Egyptian pyramids and Sphinx is even older that some beleave, over 10 000 years ago, and it has been found that they were even under water once (and possibly created by hig culture of Atlantean survivors).
And maybe, the god's people are worshiping are actually some other advanced cultures through the galaxy. I mean, they could even tampered with neanderthal DNA to make us, the humans. Because if ancient people saw something they could not explain, they made up stories and worshiped the beings. Like Mormons, they are not like Christians who beleave god is eternal and always been here. Mormons beleave that their god lives on another planet (another advanced civilization). And, well, i am kinda on their side with my own beliefs, that people started to worship other cultures in galaxy rather than actual God. But yet again, it is hard to prove anything these days. Maybe in few hundred years the question is solved lol, or if some of the galaxy other races come here and teach us lol :).
I should probably go to sleep, (it's 3:30 am when I'm writting this) but I'll reply to you before sleeping.
So can a cult be right? Yes and no, yes they could have observed things, but no they have nothing that only someone who is not limited to time and space can give(ie prophecy)
Why can't other gods be the real God? Well several reasons: 1. no other god tried to save humanity. (God even sent his son!!) 2. Other gods do not give accurate and useful prophecy. 3. The documants are unscientific. 4. The incredible events of the Bible can be proven by historical evidence. 5. If christianity was made up, then why did the early church chose to die gruesomely when they could have just said, "alright we made it up!!" and live?
So what happens to all those that didn't hear about God? That's a great question!! One I pondered many times:) and I think that God will judge those people accordingly to their circumstances, aswell as their minds/intentions. However since Jesus told us to go into the earth and share God's love with every nation, then I am 100% for missionary work.
Lastly, will heaven get boring? Great question too!! A friend of mine (who wants to be a preacher:D) said "we might perceive time differently in heaven." also heaven in my opinion will be amazing. (no illnesses, no limits, no evil, and forever living with God!) I'm thinking that life in heaven will be like life on earth just minus limits, diseases, evil, and add God. The possiblities are endless in such an environment! Also have you ever had something where you were just so terribly sad that something ended? (ie you finished a school that you really enjoyed going to, or you finished a great mod/game and though "that's it?" or someone you know died, or a very amazing trip ended) endings usually are not fun. Lord of the Rings and the Eragon series have such a sad ending!! Both stories are great durring the rising action and climax, but the endings are just sad:( in heaven there wont be an ending so there is no problem of it being sad. God promises to wipe every tear from our faces, so heaven will be not be sad. How many things can be made durring eternity? And what kind of things will we be able to do in heaven?
Just ouf of curiosity I want to go there and find out the wonderful things that God has planed! Jesus (I think) said that we cannot even imagine how amazing heaven will be. I'm sure we will be occupied in heaven, scientists will still be scientists, and most people are curious of the things around them. Also I have been doing nearly nothing for the past few weeks (mostly gaming and some hobbies which I don't consider "work") and I am not bored yet. So work is actually more boring them just spending the time doing things that are enjoyable(ie hobbies and games) I can totally imagine chess competitions in heaven, which would be so absolutely easy that we would have to make the game larger(brain usage would probably not be 10% of the total possible brain power, but 100%:D) also the resurrected body will be something that I'm looking forward too:) anyways those are just some thoughts and me rambling about things that I have never seen:)
Lol a 40min reply!!
lol yet another long reply :D
Well, anyways so you say that heaven = 100% earth looking, just without all the bad stuff and bad people and there will be God? Where he will fit in all this? I mean, when all are in heaven, then there would be no need for God anymore, cause there is no higer place to go. Well, i think that when i eventually die, then i just cease to exist lol. Kinda like you turn off your computer lol:). Also, how will person exist in heaven? I mean, body is left to earth (obviously when buried lol), so you exist as ''ghost'' in heaven:)?.
"And i find the ancient nuclear blast in in Rajasthan, India very curious. I mean, how in word could a nuclear blast happen over 10 000 years ago lol, and destroy the entire city."
I would argue that they might have destroyed that place before the flood which would be about 5000 years ago (plus or minus 1000) after all the bible does say that man was violent and evil. Also most of them have mixed/ruined/damaged their DNA, the verse "and perfect in his generations" means perfect in his DNA.
"The Egyptian pyramids and Sphinx is even older that some beleave, over 10 000 years ago, and it has been found that they were even under water once (and possibly created by hig culture of Atlantean survivors)."
This is what interested me the most!! Since if it was underwater then that is excellent evidence that they were made by the highly advance and evil people that lived before the flood! So instead of thinking that aliens tampered with human DNA, maybe humans did that, which gives God another reason to destroy them. I mean the 2 headed dog expiriment was absolutely WRONG. I like dogs and I do not like it that someone "tests" such things on animals that are absolutely helpless:( however if people did evil works before the flood then how did documents of such things survive? I mean Greek mythology has all this weird creatures. Maybe God mixed up the languages to prevent people from doing such disturbing things. It worked for a time. Anyways after everyone went their own ways, they most likely settled near ruins that were destroyed before/during the flood. They weren't stupid so they probably knew what happened to that ruin, but if someone wanted to take over the society then they probably had to "edit" the stories to get the people to follow them. The book of Genesis is an amazing document that tells the truth of how everything was made, and why it looks like it looks today.
How is it possible? I find it not just ridiculous, but ridiculous enough someone wanted us to believe it actually happened.
Well, he did manage to get billions of people to believe it happened...so he did something right back there.
It can't be worst then believing that nothing exploded:)
^^^Not intended to upset anyone.
However you should read my comment right above
I find it hilarious you think a lot of things God did was possible, but then you mock well-thought out theories put out by some of the smartest minds of this generation.
You really are stupider than you make yourself out to be, and that comes from an illogical standpoint you cannot support well. "God did it, I believe it." is not an answer.
Insulting me doesn't make the bible any less true:) anyways the bible fits with observations better then evolution. And God is capable of making everything since he is God. A big bang cannot make everything because, 1. Where did the matter come from? 2. Why did it explode. 3. Was there time and laws before the big bang? Those are just some of the questions that I would ask an evolutionist/atheist. Also why do people want God to not exist? Is there something in the bible that goes agianst your beliefs?
I don't think you understand the irony in what Christians preach. Do you even know what evolution is? It's CHANGE. Do you believe in change? If you deny evolution, then you deny reality.
Here's an example so you can see my point:
There is a species of moth. Let's say, for instance, they are colored grey except a few who are born with a mutation aka a weird, abnormal gene that could benefit or hurt the moth in it's lifespan. The mutation gives them greener colored wings. The ones with greener colored wings eventually start to survive more, as they blend in with the vegetation. The other ones die off. Is there anything moral about it? No. According to evolution aka reality, things just aren't fair. Animals need to eat other animals to get the energy required to stay alive. It's a sick process if you think about how you would have thought had you not existed in this universe. Everything revolves around energy and transferring it. Evolution is just the explanation of life as we know it.
If you cannot get that, then you are lost in your own deluded mind.
Yeah I believe in change. Except it's to a certain extent. I don't see plants becoming animals and niethere do you or anyone else, therefore not observable which puts it in the list of a fairy tale. I at least can see God's power.
The only difference between micro-evolution and macro-evolution is TIMESCALE. Imagine those moths for a second changing to suit their environment; now imagine it being WAY later and group of the same species moved down south. The species will change and adapt based upon the climate given. Eventually the species will change so much from it's original form that it will literally become a new species of animal entirely. This is just change in hundreds to thousands of years; in changes of millions to billions you can imagine it would be a lot more severe.
That's all evolution is.
Except you don't have millions of years worth of observed facts. Nobody saw evolution in the process therefore it is not science. Science is based on facts, which have been observed, and proven by an experiment, the things that cannot be proven by an experiment/observation are not science, but faith. You have to have faith to believe that NOTHING without any cause or God made everything.
Oh and about that sudden rant you did about the BBT...first of all: The BBT theory is not evolution and vice versa. They explain different processes.
1. I don't believe it was EVER matter to begin with. There's been a theory recently trying to prove that their might be things in places where we cannot see.
2. It was a singularity, not an explosion to my knowledge. Go talk to a physicist about this one.
3. From what I'm aware of, there was no time/laws before the Big Bang.
"Why do people want God to not exist"
-_- That's assuming a God exists in the first place... Secondly, we are, at most, neutral to the idea of a God. A God is not something we see as being very 'good' in our universe if one does exists. If there is a God, one came make the assumption he could make everything perfect, and that there need not be suffering or bad stuff happening. If he doesn't, then that says a lot about him already.
"Is there something in the bible that goes agianst your beliefs?"
Actually I was a Christian up until the last 2 years in my life. What changed me was realizing that my position was scientifically flawed, and that I never had any personal encounters with this 'God' to know he was true. This realization came with the sad acceptance of reality, but it was a beautiful one. The universe suddenly became something far more interesting and mysterious.
The mystery is what drives me.
I'm sad to know that you lost your faith:( anyways, I prepare myself so that I might give an answer to all that ask/question God. I believe something like that was writtin in peter(not sure, I havent memorized the bible yet:D)
So evolution NEEDS the big bang and billions of years. I rather believe that my God made me because he loves me, then to believe that by a cruel and unprovable process I evolved from dumb creatures. There are many things in this world that don't fit the dumb human to smart human theory. Unless you want to bring aliens in.
I'm glad I lost my faith because I see the world for what it truly is now. Believe me, I don't like it, but there's a realization about it that evens it out. IDC what other people believe, but I'd like it if the human race was at least non-religious and could focus more on technology and science. Religion and faith just get in science's way. If they were any near true, they would be easily supported by science and the religious would have no problem saying **** against it when it contradicts their beliefs.
So then you believe out of happiness? Well, there's no point bothering with a mind like that any more. I prefer truth over happiness. This is why I am an atheist.
Except that many things have been discovered thanks to the Bible. The paths of the sea were discovered because they were mentioned in the bible. And I trully, trully consider the bible to be literaly true and so it does not have contradictions. And real science supports it. I saw God's power a lot of times. I saw people that have had serious problems but thanks to God they are normal agian. When I hear people saying God isn't true, I think, "then why did his disciples chose death over just saying its a lie. And why did people like Saul become Paul, and why do we find so many fossils when stuff need to get burried fast to not decay. And why did I see God's work?" there is too much evidence of God, all one needs to do is open their eyes and LOOK!
Oh? Like the Garden of Eden and the Ark of the Covenant? We haven't found one lost 'magical' thing the Bible has talked about. The Bible is a historical fiction; it's like if Hitler made a book that 'covered up' the holocaust. It talks about the holocaust and the time during WW2...but it doesn't specifically go into the genocide itself.
The thing is, we'd very easily find out if Hitler in that case was lying. We know the holocaust happened because we can find the death camps, etc.
The Bible does NOT have contradictions? Hahahaha, I'm sorry but that's hilarious. God's always changing his mind on many things between his gospels. One second he supports incest, another second he's against it. One second he tells you not to kill someone, another second he orders a genocide on millions.
It cannot be trusted. Show that someone can grow their whole ******* arm/leg back by praying and you'd get 100% believers across the world. Oh but wait...God can't do that apparently because that would ruin the test... So sad.
Any evidence of a God found so far has been a proven delusion. There is no point in me further arguing with someone who cannot come to reason. People like you are trapped in a Matrix-like world (not literally), and you are given the choice of the red pill or the blue pill. Which one will it be? Do you wake up to reality or do you hide in your fantasy world hoping it is real?
I don't hope it's real I know it's real, and it is because I saw God performing miriculs that cannot be explained by chance. The Ark of the Covenant has been found. From what I saw on YouTube and I believed it. As for the garden of Eden, clearly we cannot find it!!! It was destroyed durring the flood:) and there is evidence for a global flood. Which I have been working hard at uncovering:)
There are no contradictions in the KJV of the bible:)
What 'miracles'? Every miracle I've heard religious people did not live up to the Jesus miracles. Strange, because as soon as history started to become reliably recorded...the reports of these insane miracles stopped... Hmm...
Other religions also claim miracles too, you know? Here's a video that explains what I'll say:
BTW, sorry if I sound a little mean but when I go on here to type, it's very late so I'm tired as hell.
I know whats you mean, I was debating people at about 3 am sometimes, and now its about 9:06 am, with weather that is simply COLD compared to the weather that I would expect from an August. Anyways that enough of me complaining. So do we still see miracles? I can only tell you the what I saw and I witnessed God's power. I base my faith on the fact that without God I cannot know the truth. I know God and he has wonderful plans for my life. Other religious and beliefs will also try answering those questions and they will try to lure people away from God, the people of other religious are not evil people they just do what they are taugh. This is a great question for Christians as much as any other belief system, if you were raised in another culture would you follow their beliefs as much as you do with your beliefs? This is probably why many people loose their faith, they realize that they have no foundation. Which just shows how unprepared some Christians are. God has prepared everything a Christian needs in the Bible. Why would I be "preaching" to you if it was for my own benefit?(I could be playing skyrim, or drawing my hidden gun plans) no, I'm doing this for you and God.
Name me one other religion where God reached out to the human race? There is none. Jesus came so that we might have life. Jesus was God's begotten son. Islam for instance teaches more about how 'you MUST do this, this, this, this, and that, oh and this, just to be slide into "heaven"' I haven't studdied Islam much, but from what I understand it's a human centered religion, where it depends on the human to earn his/her way to heaven. Christianity only requires the acceptance of Jesus Christ. The difference is that religions where a human can "earn" their way to heaven are misleading, God has prepared the one and only way to heaven; through Jesus Christ. The bible has incredible consistency, I mean as far as I checked it, I haven't found a single contradiction. But if you think there are any contradictions, show me:)
Finally last point, how can a person know about morals? I mean if there is no God then how can you know that killing a human is wrong? I mean you don't have that feeling when hunting an animal, (I never hunted anything but I don't feel remorse when eating animals, if my dinner was a human, I'd be disgusted) so why do humans look out for each other? How do you know if your being mean? I believe that God made us in his image, which includes his personality. So we can be angry, kind, sad, happy, etc. because we are I the image of God. As for where knowledge of good and evil came from? Well Eve, and Adam at from the tree which they shouldn't have.
I do hope you know other religions also claim to see their Gods manifested and spiritual forms talk to them... I assume you'd tell me they were lying or deluded; which I agree with, except that also begs the question if you and other Christians are under the same delusion they are.
Yet not a single other religion had their god(s) die for them. The truth is that we all deserve to perish. (die) however God loved us so much that he sent his son to die in our place. Jesus died so that all that believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. If you don't want to have eternal life then fine, but I would love to live eternally:) I fine life on earth VERY short. And I'm not old at all
No, Noah's flood is not possible. There is not enough water on Earth for that, and layered sediments prove that no global flood has ever happened.
Not enought water? There's tons of water in the oceans! Also all the plate tectonics happened durring the flood, that's when the mountains went up and the valleys when down. By the way 70% of the earth is covered in water:D sediment layers could have been layered durring the flood. An expiriment to test this would be to get several layers of sediments and then try recreating flood like conditions.
No offense intended, but you prove just how impossible it is to argue with a religious person >_< Christianity has done a very clever thing; through citing its own work, it can perpertually "prove" itself in an eternal cycle of BS. Even better when the people take loose and unlikely theories and consider them 'facts' because religion says so (Why, we found chariots at the bottom of the red sea! What ELSE could it be other than the result of the ocean being spread open by divine intervention, disregarding all laws of the universe?)
Sorry if I'm being "impossible" and I understand your frustration, it's quite annoying when someone doesn't see the world they way you think they should:D although like I mentioned earlier, (I'll make it more interesting this time) bioware is not forced to live in and by the rules and laws they make in their games. Why? Well because they made the game, so they are outside of the program. Therefore God who made the world, is not bound to it, or the laws he made. A very cool video that I was watching(link is in the Christian group, science{if deerhunter didn't delete it} and on my profile page sorry I'm using my iPhone and coping links with it takes too much time) anyways the person said how God can tell his creation what to do. So basicly God has power over matter, time, and space. Which allows for teleporting, walking through walls, making everything in 6 days, parting the red sea, raising countless people from the dead, calming storms, walking on water, turning water to wine, healing the blind/sick/paralyzed(etc), prophesying with such accuracy, being everywhere at once, the list goes on and on:)
If he is all-powerful as you claim, why did it take him 6 days to make the Earth? And then rested? If he was all-powerful, he'd make everything instantly.
A weird thing about the Bible early on right after that is the part about the Sun and the stars. This right here proved a person without divine intervention wrote the Bible: God took one day to make all the stars in the universe...and then another day to make the Sun.
Wait a sec..back up... The Sun's A STAR. We know this to be true now. Back then, people thought stars were little diamonds up in the sky for signs and seasons. Hmm...seems kinda strange the Sun wasn't considered a star in the Bible...almost as if the perception was one of a person...and not of a God.
The reason why God did everything in 6 days and rested the seventh is explained in the bible. "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." (Exodus 20:8-11 KJV)
so incase you didn't read or dont understand, God made it in 6 days and rested to set a weakly cycle for us (humans) there have been rulers that tried to change weeks to make them longer, and it was a complete failer.
Now God wrote/inspired people to write the bible in such a way so that any beggar on the street could understand it, along with being absually accurate with science. So right out of genesis: "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day." (Genesis 1:14-19 KJV)
All one day! So I don't know what you read where the sun was made before the stars. Also just because God made light on day one doesn't mean he made a star, Jesus will be the light of the new heaven and earth.
I never said the Sun was made before the stars (excuse me if I got that wrong for a second). I said, in the Bible, God acts as if the Sun isn't a star, that it is a "greater light". This actually, by itself, could debunk the Bible completely at the very beginning (and has for me). It really just shows how much of a load of crap the Bible is, that the God in it didn't know what the **** he was creating. If he did, he could've explained it to us. If I was to take the Bible as truth, I'd have to have everything in it explained to me so I could TELL it came from a God and not from some lying shithead.
The perception is entirely from a human's stance. BTW, the moon is not the light that comes out at night. It actually can be seen during the day where I live.
And about the six day thing... You made it sound like God made it like a riddle, that he was using an analogy to describe how we should live our lives for the whole week (work 6 days, rest 1 day). Whether this is true or not may not be known for certain, for it can be either answer.
If God explained everything that is in the bible, then the bible would be several times larger:) anyways God doesn't use modern science to explain what he made. He uses His classification systems! Stars look like the sun, (from close up) yet God doesn't say the sun is not a star. Just cause he didn't specify (by the way the sun's a star) doesn't mean it's not. God explained everything so that humans of all education could understand it and by not wasting too much paper, or killing the copiers(writting the bible out by hand was horrible, let alone if everything was described) I must admit that I am sad that God didnt give too much information of the about 1600 years of the preflood world. But then after I considered what they might have been doing, these words came to my mind to explain the things that were going on before the flood. Wicked, evil, and violent. Which is nearly exacly what the bible says!! God also wanted us to use our brain and invent/discover things. If he told use everything then what would the fun be in that?
No, it wouldn't have to be several times larger. He actually wastes time explaining stupid things like how to treat leprosy (which the process he explains doesn't even work) and how to sacrifice animals for him.
He seemed to want people to be obedient of him, and didn't care about telling us important information that could tell us he was right, like how the Sun is a star, the Earth is round, the Earth orbits the Sun, etc.
BTW, we can tell the age of the universe by just looking at distant stars.
Fun Fact: When you look at the farthest stars in the universe, you are looking billions of years into the past (due to the travel speed of light taking so long to reach us, this is why we know the age of our universe).
Those treatments God gave work. My mom cured here arthritis by following what God said. God's cures were, basicly just drink water/juices(note juices must be fresh without chemicals) and you should get better. (note agian this works on skin deaseies, not on a flea or cold)
God does say the earth is round, (not sure though, since I didn't read that verse yet) "the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord." That has been written many times in the bible. So God knew what the people needed at the time he gave his commandments. He also knew that people would rather finding things by themselves/by reading the bible. So he didn't reveal everything.
"the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord."
Sounds like he didn't want people to become smart and thus figure out it's all ****. Oh and about the other one...wow you actually used a 'theory' of science to try to disprove...science?
Now IDK about that theory but considering there's 0 evidence for creationism, it's safe to assume your scenario would not be real, therefore the universe IS very old.
The big bang is not science, it's a religion for those that don't want to know God. God doesn't need to explain his existance, and denying him is like denying that there is gravity. "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3:13, 14 KJV)
So that the frist point I wish to make about God's existance. 2nd point is why do people long for a God? I mean look, every nation had a god/gods. I can't remmeber where it has been written that God placed a longing for God in everyone's heart.
3rd point is where do we get morals from? Everyone knows that it's wrong to murder, steal, lie. Eventually some people can desensitize themselves and somehow justify their evil deeds. Still how did humans evolve feelings and morals? You don't see animals knowing good and evil.(except for what they have been taught by their owners) and why is it that we, humans, are the only intelligently evolved creature on the ENTIRE world. Monkeys cannot help you if you get lost in the jungle. Sure creatures have instinct which saves them from harm, humans don't have instinct and instead have intelligence.
4th point about God's existance. How else did we get here? And before you say "Big bang" consider; where did the matter come from? Where did the big bang come from? Why did it explode (last time I didn't get a good answer) where did the space for the big bang come from? Where did time begin? Why is it that gravity is so finely tuned? (if it was a bit stronger life could not exist, and if it was a bit weaker life could not exist) why are we exacly where we are from the sun? (again, if we were closer/further, life would not exist) and lastly(unless I think of more) why is our sun exacly the size it is, and nothing extremely huge or small?
(sorry for exceeding 2000charaters)
Last point distant stars. I posted a vidoe on my moddb profile about that, and much more too. Basicly the best explaination for that would be, higher gravity slows time, (Einstien came up with the theory when he was theorizing how traveling at the speed of light{which would cause a large sum of gravity/weigh} would slow time down) also for the observer traveling at the speed of light. Time stops, his ageing doesnt happen. While the observer that's observing the person traveling at the speed of light, gets old. So either time stops with speed, or it stops with gravity. Both conclusions can be drawn. Howerver I heard that they did an expiriment and placed one atomic clock at sea levels and the other at the top of a mountain. They swapped them several times and the on near sea level was slower then the one at the top of the mountain. (i have not confirmed it yet) and i persume they used a vacuum, since the pressure would have messed up the results. Still if that is correct, then since the stars and everything was closer together when God made it, then the time on earth would have been slower then what we see today. Since God stretched out the heavens, which distributed the mass of the universe better. Another theory for that is that God could make the light on its way to earth.
By the way, mesureing the distance to far away stars is like measuring the distance to a city that's a couple of km away from the roof of a 20ft wide building. (quite a skinny triangle you got there)
You basically just said the Bible is true because it is automatically true and we all know it deep down. -_-
Very ego-centered of you.
No, what I meant is that since most of it is true, (more then evolution for sure) and it says many times that God is perfect and so he cannot sin or break his own promises, which include lieing then the parts of the bible which we are not sure about have to be right. That's pretty much what I meant. Also I accept I cannot prove God, or a 6 day creation. I can prove a young earth, and I can prove a flood, and I can prove that proving the big bang is just as hard as proving God. If your interest I'm always looking for a good debate:)
>The Bible is true
>Because it's...true?
No the bible is true because it was written(inspired) by a very good friend of mine that would never ever lie. Which means he only allowed the truth to be placed in his book.
Also there is evidence of God!! If you really want to know of it then LOOK for it, or watch some genesis week on YouTube:)
*sigh* It's not that your friend is/was lying, it's that until you understand how the human mind works, you'll realize how imperfect we are. Many people believe deluded fantasies because they were taught them at birth. Why do you think kids believe in Santa Claus so easily? It's a ridiculous story, yet kids realize it to be true.
It's the same situation here with religious and non-religious people. Religious people are just the screaming kids here who don't want to hear how Santa Claus isn't going to bring them presents this year because he was made-up.
I mean, ask yourself these questions:
1. Why do kids like believing in Santa Claus?
2. Why do parents trick them into believing in Santa Claus?
3. What happens when they find out Santa Claus isn't real?
4. Why do you think the parents make up 'fake evidence' of Santa, like presents appearing near the tree? And then plant them themselves? This is the same kind of situation that could easily be done within a religion (people planting fake evidence/making false claims).
5. What is the reward kids like about believing in Santa Claus? It makes them feel happy yes?
First I never believed in Satan, I haven't even had a tree within my house for the past few (5-10)years also I am totally against pagan traditions. So I can't much compare the 2. However Christianity does have real evidence. Tell me who would die so painfully for a make belief story? Why were they being killed/persecuted? And why did people like Saul, become such strong Christians? (Saul became Paul)
*facepalm
These were all things recorded in the Bible. The Bible can't prove itself, especially when it is so damn flawed.
Flaws, what flaws? Show me one flaw within the bible:) (good luck)
I could go at this forever with you and you will just deny it. But I'll try my hand at a few easy ones: first of all, if evolution is true (which is has been proven to be); then the Bible is automatically wrong with it's creation event. After that it can be assumed the entirety of the supernatural claims in the Bible are also wrong as they follow the same creation event which was supernatural.
Secondly, the Bible take son many perceptions of the different people who wrote it. In the ten commandments, God told everyone not to kill another human being; yet later on says to massacre groups of people later on. He contradicted his own law he set up and this kind of analogy follows through in later parts of the Bible as well.
Your first point has not been proven:) evolution has not been observed in the process therefore it isn't science. And if it is called science then the creation account can also be called science. I mean it's just a different interpretation of the evidence.
Your second point is very good though. Now God told us not to murdur people. However he told them to kill every single being that lived in the promised land. Why? Well sparing those people would have led the isrealits away from God. If even one person was spared then that person would seek revenge for the death of his nation. Also if Israel mixed with ungodly people then they too would become ungodly. It was for the greater good that that had to happen. Also God judges evil, and so God used Israel as a judge on the evil nations that lived there. How long can a nation be completely against God and doing all sorts of evil deeds before God destroys them? A long period of time. God kept the flood from flooding the earth for quite a period of time. In that time not a single person put aside their evil deeds. They kept living their wicked life style. Instead of letting go of their evil they became worst. So God judged the Caaninites (spelling) just like he judged the per flood people. Soon (not sure when, could be several decades, years, I don't know) but soon God will judge this world with fire.