I, and I'm sure you are too, have had enough of spoiled fan bases tearing at overly generous developers for not giving them things that they have been getting for free for ages, but when the developers ask for some cash for their work, they are met by anger, and all around idiocy, this group is here to stop that.

Report article RSS Feed The L4D Boycott Is A Showing Of Disrespect

We are a community of game and mod developers, and we've all shared the experience, yet, some of us still haven't learned anything from such an experience, or have yet to experience it, and so they blindly disrespect and punish the people who have felt it too many times, but still persevere for their fans, with Boycotts and denying any profit for their labor.

Posted by EvilConker on Jun 28th, 2009

We've all had that moment in our lives. Well, if you've got a mod or a game here, you've definatly had this moment in your life. You know that moment, when you've finally released, anounced, or showed some progress of your game or mod, but you look at your comments, and guess what you see? This person who thinks he's something, saying how much your mod/game is bad, and how it doesn't deserve a page, or whatever.

We've all had that feeling, we've all felt the emotions, maybe it's anger, annoyance, or you don't care (unlikely.) Either way, it's left something on you, this person doesn't apreciate what you've done.

Now, imagine that feeling, multiplied by ten, and that's how Valve developers are feeling as the L4D2 Boycott carries on. There are close to no devlopers in this universe that are as dedicated to their fans as the ones at Valve, they've given so much to their community, and have asked for so little in return. They gave five full games for a price of $50 in the Orange Box, they allow a ton of publishing opprutunities for MODS, not even games, MODS that profitise off of their engines that they've worked so hard on, and they don't ask for that much of a cut in the profit in return. They are the most supportive of the Modding community, too, they have created their own Mod developement wiki, several programs and tutorials, and a ton of updates, and full access to their Source engine, in all its glory, they've given you everything they have, for free. If you want proof of how many mods use their engines and programs, look at the front Page of Mod DB and count how many Half Life 2 or Source based mods you see, I'm sure that you see quite a bit, not even a bit, a LOT.
Valve's also proved it's dedication to the gamers, the ones who've never touched a modding program, through countless game updates. Game's that are as old as Half Life, yeah, not Half Life 2, but HALF LIFE, still get updates, and that prooves something. You may say "But Blizzard's patched Star Craft about 1,000 times," but people are still buying Star Craft, and Blizzard's still profiting off of Star Craft tournaments.

Nobody still buys Half Life.
There are no such things anymore as Half Life tournaments.
And Half Life 2 was released 5 years ago.

Valve's money all comes from pure game sales, they do NOT make money off of anything else (aside for, if you want to sell your mod, but that's not that much profit anyways,) those constant Team Fortress 2 upgrades come to you for FREE, you are never charged, never have you been playing a game and you've gotten this message "A new weapon has been released for Team Fortress 2, do you want to pay up for it?" It HASN'T happened, and it WON'T HAPPEN.

But it has happened, that while playing, lets say, Battlefeild 2, you HAVE gotten a notice saying "A new weapon pack's been released for BF2, do you want to fork over some cash to get them?" This seperates Valve from a lot of developers, their production costs DO NOT match their income. Their weapons designers do NOT work for free, you know, but yet, they give you their work for free.

Production costs - no income = loss in money

I don't think a SINGLE one of you would be willing to do the same thing, unless you haven't finished a mod before. Those who have, have told stories of it being a personal hell, I've made a few games for Flash, and it IS a personal hell. People don't just snap their fingers and a game just becomes. And I'm SURE that if it wasn't for most mods on this site being, well, mods, they would charge for it. And even look at all the games on this site, about 5 of them are free, and those are the small ones, all the big ones will cost you.

Now, why would Valve be so different? Because Valve is something different, Valve likes to see the happiness of their fans more then their pay checks. Of course, they like their pay checks more, but they've proven multiple times that they will gladly reduce it. Just THINK about how much cash Valve would be rolling in if they DID charge you for those new weapons in TF2? If they put it all into an expansion pack, and gave you a $40 price tag? Yes, I need to bring this point up, the amount of content delivered to most Valve games is the equivelent of an expansion pack. It IS worthy of a $40 price tag, but there isn't one. There's a $0 price tag.

So, you'd think such a company would be economic troubles, well, the truth is, they ARE. Well, they aren't really on the verge of collapsing, but they need more money so that they don't end up like Free Radical, or Westwood, or some other company that doesn't exist anymore since it couldn't meet it's target profit.

So, you know what they decided to do? They decided to, for once, ask for money for their work. And you know what that's called? Left For Dead 2, it's funny, Left For Dead 2 is called Left For Dead 2 for a reason, it's WAY bigger then any update. It's HUGE, I mean, yeah, it's a whole new game for a reason.

But for some reason, the first thing most users saw when they came on this site one day was news of A BOYCOTT. Talk about disrespect? Valve? Honestly? The most generous group of developers ever? A BOYCOTT?

Suddenly, up was down, left was right, it didn't make sense. Valve's been shoveling so much free food into these pigs that they get annoyed when they are denied the right to free load. It's like complaining to your friend that he used to allow you to come into his house naked every day, but now that his Mom's moved in, he's not allowing you to. Now, that doesn't make sense, does it? But it's true, it's what's going on right here, as we speak. Valve, the friend who allows you to do anything in his house (well if he's allowing you to walk in stripped then he'll allow you to probably do anything) is getting yelled at because his Mother (financial troubles) moved in, and he doesn't want to look bad (close down for good) in front of his mother, or else she'll pull a pistol out of her purse and shoot him dead for good.

Valve can close down for good if this goes on, Valve NEEDS to survive, they DESERVE to survive, they are the perfect example of a group of developers who just simply LOVE their fans, and will do ANYTHING for their loyalty.

It would be a real shame if their down fall came from their own fans not appreciating their generosity.

A real shame.

If you agree, join the Anti Fan Idiocy group, we need to SHOW something to this world, we need to be living proof that we appreciate those who need to be appreciated!

Come on, guys, if they succeed, we'll loose Valve forever, lets not have the saying "You don't know what you've got until it's gone" apply to us!

Post comment Comments
CoachShogun20
CoachShogun20 Jun 28 2009, 8:41pm says:

Good article Conker. It makes perfect sense, and I loved the "naked" comparison.

-1 votes     reply to comment
Stubby
Stubby Jun 29 2009, 12:31am says:

when you promise something, people expect it.

so seriously, get out of here.

-4 votes     reply to comment
Stubby
Stubby Jun 29 2009, 12:36am buried:

(buried)

"So, you know what they decided to do? They decided to, for once, ask for money for their work. And you know what that's called? Left For Dead 2, it's funny, Left For Dead 2 is called Left For Dead 2 for a reason, it's WAY bigger then any update. It's HUGE, I mean, yeah, it's a whole new game for a reason."

they replaced a few model and some texures and maps.

i could have done this all myself. NOT worth a update.

-8 votes     reply to comment
CoachShogun20
CoachShogun20 Jun 30 2009, 4:23pm replied:

Have you seen the whole game? I think not. Have you played any of the game? I think not. Your theory has more holes then a slice of swiss cheese.

+7 votes     reply to comment
Gibberstein
Gibberstein Jun 29 2009, 4:00am says:

Thing is, I see the friend analogy more like this:

Your best friend has stuck with you and supported you through thick and thin - he really is everything a friend should be. Then one day, instead of greeting you with a cheery 'hi buddy', he greets you by kicking you square in the balls.

At this point, do you continue as you were for the sake of old times, or has something changed, and your opinion is going to change with it? L4D2 is that kick in the balls - Valve just aren't acting like the Valve we thought we knew.

-4 votes     reply to comment
EvilConker
EvilConker Jun 29 2009, 10:40am says:

Yes they are, but they're just asking for compensation, and instead of mugging you, they're giving you a new game for it.

They're giving you something for giving them compensation.
Nobody does that in the real world, and Valve is very generous to do so.

And stubby, replacing a few models?
New weapons.
New maps.
New enemies.
New campaigns.

THAT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU COULD'VE DONE BY YOURSELF.
It's taking THEM so long to do it.

And Gibberston, your analogy is incorrect:

Your best friend has stuck with you and supported you through thick and thin - he really is everything a friend should be. Then one day, instead of greeting you with a cheery 'hi buddy', he greets you with a kinda cheery "hey man"
You then proceed to yell at him for not calling you "buddy" and then you kick HIM square in the balls.

+4 votes     reply to comment
mikejkelley
mikejkelley Jul 2 2009, 3:52am says:

I think boycotts are great. It's nice to see that some ppl aren't apathetic sheep. I couldn't care less about L4D2, but I boycott Valve for a variety of reasons; chief amongst them the fact that they make their money illicitly through vicarious copyright infringement.

-4 votes     reply to comment
EvilConker
EvilConker Jul 2 2009, 10:17am replied:

What do you mean? Are you confusing companies? Valve only makes original IP's, and off of Mods that people wish to sell, Valve gets a cut of the profit from there too, Valve DOES NOT DESERVE THIS.

+6 votes     reply to comment
zerocreatorz
zerocreatorz Jun 2 2010, 10:32pm replied:

Theres only one reason I hate valve and thats for selling Garrys mod, I mean up till 9 it was free then 10 and 11 were both sales items I mean come on its a mod, a mod that ive seen done in the classic goldsource (gomod) and they expect us to pay for it that was the first piece of software I illegaly stole from a friends hard-drive. XD

-3 votes     reply to comment
rockythedude
rockythedude Sep 28 2013, 12:50pm replied:

The creator of GMOD made it cost money not Valve

+2 votes     reply to comment
Wraiyth
Wraiyth Jul 2 2009, 11:55am says:

It hasn't taken them so long to do it, its probably taken 12-18 months, given that it started development straight after the L4D release

Your article is simply flawed in so many ways its not funny. A few points...

Quote:They gave five full games for a price of $50 in the Orange Box
Quote:
Valve were able to do this purely because of Steam and probably made more money as a result. Going through a traditional publisher selling on the shelf at full price, Valve might have seen 25% IF THEY WERE VERY VERY LUCKY. Because of Steam, Valve saw the full profits of the game, meaning they made more money but were still able to sell everything cheapy to the consumer.

Quote:MODS that profitise off of their engines that they've worked so hard on, and they don't ask for that much of a cut in the profit in return

Err, where did you get this idea?


created their own Mod developement wiki


Which is maintained by community members... Epic have a Wiki as well for Unreal, and I'm sure theres a CryEngine one there somewhere. This is not unique to Valve.

Quote:Nobody still buys Half Life.

I disagree 100% on that. There was a sale for Half Life on last year to celebrate its 10th anniversary, selling at 99 cents. I bet people got it then.

Quote:Valve's money all comes from pure game sales, they do NOT make money off of anything else

Wrong again. Steam sales.

Quote:those constant Team Fortress 2 upgrades come to you for FREE, you are never charged

But what you miss is the fact that with each content release, TF2 is VERY heavily promoted and put on sale all over Steam, very highly publicised, and probably sells more copies because people know its going to be supported freely. If you look at the sales of expansions vs the additional sales Valve wouldn't have gotten without these updates, you'll probably see Valve ahead.

+2 votes     reply to comment
Wraiyth
Wraiyth Jul 2 2009, 11:56am says:
Quote:So, you'd think such a company would be economic troubles, well, the truth is, they ARE

Along with every other company in the Western world...

Quote:Talk about disrespect?

Ignoring the fact that Valve came out before the release of L4D2 and said that it would be supported the same as TF2 with free content...

Basically, people are ****** off because they bought the game under the impression that there would be updates like TF2 (and you talked about the content in those updates anyway), and Valve havent delivered. Instead of announcing what they will deliver in TF2, they announced a new product.
Say you bought a car and the manufacturer said that later on, they would upgrade your car with a new stereo, new leather interior, mags... all for free. But instead of upgrading your car, they bought out a new one with all those features and the same price tag. You bought the car under the impression you'd get it upgraded, but you haven't, and instead theres a new product with things that you believe should have been in your car. You have a right to be angry because you have been misled in your original purchase.
Thats whats happening here, and thats why consumers have a right to be angry.

+1 vote     reply to comment
zerocreatorz
zerocreatorz Jun 2 2010, 10:36pm replied:

Just like the orange box has had many versions all priced around the same margin with people buying them over and over again (just to get the upgrade) my local gamestation had 3 different versions of HL2 when it came out WTF, Normal, Black and Special why do we need so many versions, for the idiot consumer of course...

+1 vote     reply to comment
EvilConker
EvilConker Jul 2 2009, 12:45pm says:

Wrayth, you're argument is flawed, just because Valve still makes money, a small amount, by the way (half life does not take 99 cents to make,) that doesn't support your ideas in any way. You're thinking "OMG THEY R MAKING NOT A LOT MONEY OFF OF THEIR HARD WORK LETS BOYCOTT THEM LAWL"

Also, ok, they didn't fall through on their promosis, YET, Valve has a VERY good track record on DLC, they probably will keep updating L4D, they never stopped updating Half Life 1 after 2 was released, you know. But not if they don't find you people deserving of it.

Before this boycott, you respected Valve, and Valve respected you, both of you were happy, Valve's developers were proud that they had one of the longest standing fan bases in the history of gaming, but now, they don't, because you're not respecting them. They aren't making as much money as they deserve, and they deserve a whole lot more then they're making. Ok, good, they're making money, but they deserve so much more, DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

VALVE WORKS THEIR ***** OFF FOR YOU LITTLE BASTARDS, AND THIS IS HOW YOU REPAY THEM? They make money, but NOT ENOUGH money for THEIR HARD WORK, it's NOT easy to give away free DLC that other companies would definatly put a price tag on, IT'S NOT EASY AT ALL, VALVE DOES IT BECAUSE THEY ARE GENEROUS, CAN'T YOU APRECIATE THAT? AT ALL?

I mean, you guys are REALLY starting to **** me off, EVERYBODY SAYS YOU'RE WRONG, EVERY NEWS OUTLET'S AGAINST YOU, EVERYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE 34,000 THAT YOU'VE GOT IS AGAINST YOU.

DON'T YOU ******* UNDERSTAND THAT YOU UNAPPRECIATIVE SONS OF BITCHES?

Sorry that I went out like that, it doesn't happen often, until somebody REALLY ****** me off, congrats, you just ****** me off.

+1 vote     reply to comment
zerocreatorz
zerocreatorz Jun 2 2010, 10:38pm replied:

if you really believe they aint making much money go and check out how much shares are worth in their company youll be shocked for a start their obviously making enough money to SELL shares you aint gonna buy 5 pennys worth of shares for a million, lol.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Wraiyth
Wraiyth Jul 2 2009, 5:50pm says:

I smell a more serious case of Valve Fanboyism than I have...
I never thought that they're making so much money that they should be boycotted as a result. Fans boycott things because they believe (correctly or incorrectly) that they are being wrongly done by. In this case, Valve haven't yet delivered what they said they would. Even if they do deliver on L4D content (I don't know why they would if they have a newer game to support), they've still got a fragmented community.
If you read reviews for Left 4 Dead, the general consensus is that there wasn't really enough content to justify the price tag and most people brought it on the promise that there would definitely be more. So far, that more hasn't been delivered.

Just because a company works hard on something doesnt mean everyone HAS to respect their work and agree with what the are doing. I'm sure there are mods or games or people or ideas that you dislike. The fact that you're disrespecting my opinion right here is a reflection on how hypocritical your whole stance is.
As a Source modder with a mod being distributed on Steam, Valve have done a hell of alot for me, and I respect that. That doesn't mean I have to agree with everything they do and have to support them 100% in every single thing they do

+1 vote     reply to comment
EvilConker
EvilConker Jul 2 2009, 6:39pm says:

I am not a Valve fan and I never will be until I'm 18 and can play any of the games that they make.

I am a developer of a few games myself and I know how it feels.

-1 votes     reply to comment
neronix17
neronix17 Apr 11 2010, 3:41pm says:

I havent read through all the comments yet but to be honest Il give up on life if I read another "Valve should close down because Im a spoilt **** that doesnt like that a company expects me to pay for a game I want to play" comment. Seriously, what gives you people the right to boycott a company just because you dont like something they do? Its the same as watching TV, if you dont like a show or movie etc, then you change the channel. Nobody is forcing you to watch the show, its up to you wether you watch it, but its not up to you wether a very highly respected games company closes down or not.

I have a great many different ways of saying this but they are all pretty much the same, so Il end my little rant by saying that all the middle aged virgins that still live in their parents house, watching tv or looking online for things they dont like to protest against to ban it etc, should go and die in a corner somewhere. Seriously, its not like anyone would miss you, I know its savvy and you dont want to hear it but its true. The world will be a better place if these types of people would dissapear.

On an related note, if anyone doesnt try to destroy companies but is a middle aged virgin that happens to live with their parents then Im sorry if I have offended you.

EDIT: Forgot to add that I dont praise valve for their games, I honestly think most of their games are average at best. I just wanted to stand up for a company that doesnt deserve the crap its taken.

+3 votes     reply to comment
zerocreatorz
zerocreatorz Jun 2 2010, 10:46pm replied:

Its not like any of the boycotters are actually 'MAN' enough to actually throw crap at them

Mom look at the monkey, ewwwww

0 votes     reply to comment
Darthlex
Darthlex Jul 17 2010, 2:26am replied:

You failed that so hard mate ..

Quote:what gives you people the right to boycott a company just because you dont like something they do?

The fact that they have a free will? Also the fact that these things cost a lot of money - not all people have the kind of money to just go "Oh well, that was 40 Dollars wasted"

Quote: I have a great many different ways of saying this but they are all pretty much the same, so Il end my little rant by saying that all the middle aged virgins that still live in their parents house, watching tv or looking online for things they dont like to protest against to ban it etc, should go and die in a corner somewhere. Seriously, its not like anyone would miss you, I know its savvy and you dont want to hear it but its true. The world will be a better place if these types of people would dissapear.

OOoooh, random generalization with no merit whatsoever! You really are the cool kid in the hood, huh?

Most importantly:

Quote:"Valve should close down because Im a spoilt **** that doesnt like that a company expects me to pay for a game I want to play

I expect that what they say I pay for, is exactly what I paid for .. When they say I can expect to get upgrades in the same style and speed they update TF2, then I feel I have the right to be upset when they make another game including *exactly* what they promised that we already paid for and not keep a single one of their promises when it comes to the L4D(1) DLC ..

-1 votes     reply to comment
gamefreak42
gamefreak42 Jul 3 2011, 8:49am says:

EvilConker Jul 2 2009, 10:17am replied:
What do you mean? Are you confusing companies? Valve only makes original IP's, and off of Mods that people wish to sell, Valve gets a cut of the profit from there too, Valve DOES NOT DESERVE THIS.


Do i smell politcaly correctsness land nearby? i am a part of 7 boycotts...do you have a problem with that?

+1 vote     reply to comment
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