Natural Selection 2 is the sequel to the popular Half-Life mod Natural Selection. It is built on our own engine and will be distributed through Valve's Steam platform.

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Mkilbride Jun 15 2012, 5:43am says:


But I have to ask you guys, though this not be the place;

What happened to performance?

Just a few builds ago, I was averaging 70-80FPS, even on a full server.

Now, I'm getting under 60, usually around 40-44FPS - And this is with a new GTX670, which so far, has doubled my FPS in all other games. My previous GTX470, was actually faster, last time I played NS2, that is, which is say, maybe two months ago, at most.

I average about 20% CPU usage and 30-40% GPU usage. This is due to release this year, right? But it seems you've somehow made performance worse.

Other than that, everything else is gravy. You've made much needed changes.

But performance on, well, I won't call my system "Top of the line", but definitely higher end than the majority of users, can't maintain 60FPS, with a game that, no offense, doesn't have tat great of graphics?

It has a wonderful art style; but graphics wise, it is nothing to spectacular.

+5 votes     reply to comment
Pennypacker Jun 15 2012, 12:44pm replied:

^ This.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Kokumotsu Jun 15 2012, 1:39pm replied:

you know graphics are not everything, take minecraft for example its simple graphics but yet not everyone can play it full at 60fps.
from the look of this trailer it looks liek a lot of rendering is needed, thus given lower fps this time around

-2 votes     reply to comment
Mkilbride Jun 15 2012, 5:37pm replied:

I know graphics are not everything.

What I am saying is, not half my CPU or GPU is being used, and I am getting sub 60FPS, oft lower than 40 at some points.

The thing is, previous builds ran better, the last few, performance has been -decreasing-, which was supposed to be top priority, then they'd add game features.

Most fans of Natural Selection are older gamers who played Half-Life and it's mods, like myself, and find it just disappointing.

+2 votes     reply to comment
CaptainLagfail Jun 15 2012, 5:55pm replied:

This is also extremely important in a competitive game with very fast moving players. Should be aiming for the performance of Counter Strike, not Crysis.

+2 votes     reply to comment
Mkilbride Jun 15 2012, 6:03pm replied:


Listen, I'm going to list my PC specs in full, and this isn't bragging, but it's to show that a PC like mine has very poor performance:

Core i5 2500K @ 4.5GHZ
128GB Samsung 830 SSD
GTX670 @ 1282mhz core / 6900mhz memory
Windows 7 64-bit
850w PSU

Not a super high end system by any means, but still, a decently powerful rig, better than average, I'd say, and if my system can't maintain a decent FPS; what hope do many people with aging rigs have?

+3 votes     reply to comment
deadrawkstar Jun 16 2012, 12:02am replied:

You know your brain cant process much more than 18fps. But to us it takes about 45 fps to make it look "smooth". I wouldnt worry if your higher than that still.

0 votes     reply to comment
Mkilbride Jun 16 2012, 12:06am replied:


Are you joking?

Those old myths are long gone. We see in light, not in frames, we can see the difference up to 200+ FPS, some studies have shown, if your eyes adjust.

The difference between 45FPS & 60FPs is very obvious to anyone not dead or half blind.

About 85FPS is where it becomes buttery smooth to me in video games, any higher is hard for me to notice, but several people in scientific studies have shown to be capable to notice up to 200FPS.

+3 votes     reply to comment
luiz0regis Online
luiz0regis Jun 16 2012, 5:39am replied:

Don't forget to mention the monitor refresh rate...

+1 vote     reply to comment
Mkilbride Jun 16 2012, 5:57am replied:

Most are 60HZ, LCD's that is, but on older CRT's, alot went up to 140hz, at lower resolutions, though some had good refresh rates even at higher resolutions.

These new 120HZ LCD / LED's are pretty good; if you've seen one in motion, it's almost CRT like. But still not there.

This is one of the best pictures to describe how higher refresh rates, alongside frame rates, can help.

This is a demo running in a 360 degree circle, capturing the blur on a LCD, a 120HZ, and a CRT monitor.

CRT is still king, though OLED looks promising.

And trust me; gaming @ 60FPS seems wonderful, but if you ever game on a monitor that has say, a 100HZ Refresh rate, and play at around 85FPS...then you will know incredible smoothness and fluidity.

I've disliked LCD's ever since I switched to one...but I had little choice in these modern times; the FW900 from Sony is still very expensive, though sexy...

+1 vote     reply to comment
Darklord42 Jun 16 2012, 8:50am replied:

Well I say they should work on the core game until they are satisfied. only then can they handle the whim of the frame junkie.

(Its ok though, I'm the same way with audio. 96khz or better is where it's at. ;) )

+2 votes     reply to comment
Mkilbride Jun 16 2012, 9:15am replied:

No, it's not a frame junkie.

The problem is the game is not smooth. It is jerky, and buggy, and Aliens are winning not just due to OP, but due to poor server and client performance.

MArines need to aim to hit. Aliens have a wide cone where their melee can hit, so even in low FPS, or if the server is lagging, they can still kill you, infact easier, since you can't hit them.

The thing is, performance was gradually getting better; now it's going in the -reverse-, I have a problem with that, is all.

Doesn't matter if it has tons of unique features if no one can play it, or won't stomach the poor performance.

Right now I would put the game in a early beta, 3 months from release...from a full fledged studio. However, Unknown Worlds is not, and they only have a handful, 4 people, last I checked, may have increased to 6, I think I read, not sure, but not alot of people...

So those 3 months for a large company...well..I'd say, I'm not optimistic about the summer release they talked about.

Performance should easily be double, and with some optimization, triple, what it is.

+2 votes     reply to comment
Darklord42 Jun 17 2012, 10:45am replied:

well reserve judgment till it's done. Of course they know this and you aren't telling them anything they don't already know. I'm sure they keep a very close eye on all stats gathered from the community. But the general rule with all projects is you have to break things before you can fix them. It's beta, one should expect this stuff. Now letting them know of specific bugs is one thing but complaining that the game is fundamentally broken isn't very helpful.

-1 votes     reply to comment
Darklord42 Jun 17 2012, 11:01am replied:

You are right that they certainly have a lot of work to do if they aren't done with the core game yet. We will see what the future yields. But I'm not going the bust their balls for it. They get that enough.

0 votes     reply to comment
Darthlex Jun 17 2012, 3:39pm replied:

Wrong, this is a decently constructive thing - Performance is paramount in an FPS, period.

This is not a useless consideration at all, and Mkilbride would be wrong to keep it to himself.

We are doing this in hope of a better and more stable game, mind you.

+2 votes     reply to comment
Darklord42 Jun 17 2012, 3:59pm replied:

They are still making the game, with huge balance changes coming in the very near future. If you have been following them at all, you would know that performance is already huge on their priority list. But the down side of adding stuff in is somethings are just going to break/get slow. And they are going to have to fix it later. which they know. His comment is utterly useless ergo non-constructive.

-1 votes     reply to comment
Darklord42 Jun 17 2012, 4:34pm replied:

the fact that they are small is all the more reason not to drag em down with obvious growing pains. give em something specific they can fix. Allow me to demonstrate.

Marines are winning most games in 110.
One noticeable reason is jetpacks are proving far too effective against anything the aliens have in their arsenal, as their weapons are mostly melee based.

Possible solutions include - faster tracking of hydras, introducing more of a cool down for jetpacks, and increasing their price.

0 votes     reply to comment
Darklord42 Jun 17 2012, 4:45pm replied:

Otherwise If I've told em once, I've told them a thousand times. Don't put in that "make the game run slow" code. That's just silly.

0 votes     reply to comment
Plasmatic Jul 7 2012, 10:13pm replied:

60 fps is the upper range of where we can discern any thing, if you were to put frames inbetween beyond that you wouldn't even see them, and the higher fps you go, the less likely if you put one frame (like a black frame) in a bunch of white frames you wouldn't realize it was even there, in fact 85 is much too high for you to set that as the minimum for your "buttery smooth-ness".

This being said however, and your statement saying, "Not a super high end system by any means" is complete BS, that is a beast of a system. you should be getting 200fps not 44 - 40 fps, and if they say otherwise I would be surprised, (and if they actually did say otherwise its fault in their own rendering and code not your system specs)

+1 vote     reply to comment
Mkilbride Jul 8 2012, 4:24am replied:

Super high end to me is SLI with 690's and a Core i7 3960K @ 5.5GHZ on water, with 32GB of RAM. :P

+1 vote     reply to comment
PytoX Jun 15 2012, 5:47am says:


+2 votes     reply to comment
Whitelightning51 Jun 15 2012, 2:29pm says:

i wounder why we don't see dead Civs or other people i wounder... did they evac? where are the bodies?

+1 vote     reply to comment
reok Jun 16 2012, 9:26am says:

Looking gorgeous !

+1 vote     reply to comment
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We have fought in the mines and on the tram tracks. Now, fight for the entrance to the Alterra Corporation facility. Welcome to Docking.

The child of mapper Oliver "Dux" Hobbs, Docking utilises an art set that has not yet been seen in NS2 maps. Featuring living quarters, amenities, and recreation facilities, this map brings a unique new look to the NS2 beta.

Docking will be available in Build 210 - We hope you enjoy it!

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Jun 15th, 2012
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